Are you going to do yet another puff piece on Woz, or are you going to be a journalist with the guts to ask him some tough questions?
Q: Isn't your book just a rehash of the stories you've been telling for years over and over. do we really need to hear again how you called the Pope with your bluebox?
Q: Doesn't your relationship to Apple make you a hypocrite? With your love of technology for empowering people, shouldn't you have been the "poster boy" for the open source movement? Everything you do as a geek seems like you should have center stage and not Linus Torvalds. But wait, Apple is all about proprietary lock-in, hardcore DRM for music, closed software, and just about everything that is the anti-thesis of the archetypical modern hacker/geek.
Q: Have you done any engineering since developing the first Apple? You track record of founding multiple startups (self financed and VC financed) all ending in failures makes you more of a "serial flop". Do you have attention deficit - you start companies but don't like to actually do any hard work and the cronies you hire to work for you don't have to vision carry out your dreams or have you simply had a lot of startup bad-luck?
Q: If Steve Jobs wouldn't write an intro to your book because he felt you cast him in a bad light, if you're really friends, why didn't you edit it instead of trashing him and refusing to change it. Afterall, you didn't write it anyway - you just babbled into a tape recorder and hired someone to transcribe it into something readable.
Drew
· 3 years ago
Sweet! Woz is gonna be at UW? I'm so there . . .
My first assembly code was for a 2E. And I'm some ex-MSFT guy. Yay! I love Apple and Woz is one of my heroes. Thanks for the news, Robert.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Drew: yeah, it's on Friday evening. Part of his book tour.
Dan G
· 3 years ago
Reading those comparisons left me thinking:
Zune: "I've got lots of complex features!" iPod: "I just work."
Reminds me of Wii vs. PS3. Know which one I'd buy...
David Geller
· 3 years ago
At Microsoft's all-hands offsite at Safeco Field and Qwest's Exposition Hall last week an unusual candor was presented by upper management in recognizing that it would take several versions of Zune to begin chipping away at Apple's gigantic lead. Just admitting that iPod and Apple are the current leaders in the space is a mature position to present.
I've been seeing lots of device comparisons. People that are hung up on details about screen size and FM radio presence (or not), and all the other feature details, are missing the reason why the iPod line is so successful. It's not the device - it's the platform. I wouldn't care much about the physical attributes of the device if iTunes wasn't there. That's what makes the solution so attractive. It's just so remarkably easy - and works on PCs and Macs.
Brett Nordquist
· 3 years ago
I think Dan G. is right on the money here. It's typical of Microsoft to think they can just add features and gain marketshare. The Zune, from the pictures I've seen, looks like something from Creative or maybe iRiver, and it's far from hip. It's not cool looking and who cares if you can share your songs with friends when all your friends own iPods. Maybe Zune is going to pull an MCI and create a "Friends and Family" program? The Zune is dead on arrival. Well, unless it comes free with an Xbox 360...
Huw Leslie
· 3 years ago
It's gonna be fascinating who wins. I just bought an iPod Nano, and you're right Dan G, it just works. I still think Microsoft has some massive strategic advantages, which I wrote about here.
Sunny
· 3 years ago
Zune is vaporware. iPod exists today.
Alfredo Octavio
· 3 years ago
The fact that the Zune is PC only is the nail on its coffin. Unless, as rumored, the Zune is priced at 99$, it just won't sell enough to make the other features interesting. Microsoft should stop trying to protect a monopoly that nobody is attacking and just do the product that people want. You don't win market share by reducing your audience. But, this is only DRM Music Player+DRM store version 2.0 (1.0 was the Play-for-sure joke that was hyped thru this same sit), I eagerly expect the 3.0 version when Microsoft will start making things interesting. I really do not understand why hype a product that isn't here. When the Zune is out there will be disappointment for sure, since the bad news are being hidden from us, we are only getting the good... and it's not that good.
Russ Henry
· 3 years ago
IMHO very very very HO. Zune errored in design by trying to go bigger. The direction I think they should have taken was smaller. i.e. NANO.
Don't stop. If MS went smaller, they could add another attachment the size of a small calculator. This attachment would be a higher quality screen to view the "MS-DEO's" or microsoft videos. The (unbreakable) screen would be small enough to fit in a shirt/suit pocket. Now you have a fully functional technical viewer to review your channel 9/10 stuff or watch the hot movie downloads at the airport before putting it in your hold baggage LOL.
The beta version could be called the (VEEE-DEE-OH) V-DEO lol. ; )
just a thought ... humbly submitted. I'll get back in the box now.
Dave
· 3 years ago
Regarding Zune...
I own 3 iPods and 3 Macs. Yes, I have a bias. But while Zune is currently vaporware - like so much of Microsoft's output has been for the last 3 years - that is no reason to count them out.
Have they made a dent with XBox? (Not sure if it is spelled right, I'm not a gamer.) You bet. Have they made a profit? Nope. They'll attempt the exact same thing with Zune.
Zune does have some unique features, albeit not yet properly implemented. The WiFi is nice... but they should only limit the 3 day playback to their own DRM.
While limiting themselves to Windows is not a product killer, I think that limiting their downloads to non-iPod players is. Whatever happened to embrace and extend?
Regarding Woz and the rather harsh comment/questions from @1....
Jeez man, lighten up. Exactly what memorable things have YOU done in your life? Serial flop? Damn, that shows a ton of knowledge of how true innovators work. Ever listen to ANYBODY who has created something new? Maybe heard how large the percentage of failure to success they have?
David
· 3 years ago
Where I work you'd expect that most of the people are intelligent, able to find answers to their problems, and somewhat tech savvy. Since I was an early iPod adopter and I'm one of the identifiable tech nerds people come to me with their iPod problems. Do you have any clue how many of those problems could have been solved by reading the help menu in iTunes? How many could be solved by checking out Apple's iPod 101 online? Do you have any clue how many times I've walked back into my office saying to myself, "Some people are just too dumb to own an iPod!"
Now Apple specializes in making the complex simple. Microsoft specializes in making the simple complex. I can't wait until the Zune comes out and people start actually using it.
So Microsoft understands it will take several iterations to get the Zune right? Okay. But does Microsoft understand how to make this peripheral work with the monstrosity that is the Windows platform? I doubt it...unless they manage to steal Steve from Apple.
sam
· 3 years ago
The thing that really impresses me when I read Zune advanced hype is the failure of what I perceive to be Microsoft's Zune marketing strategy. I thought that this time, they were going to try and keep tight lipped about it until the actual product launch (which would be timed sufficiently before Christmas). I had no idea it was going to involve a bevy of "leaked" photos and details. Now, people have already decided if they want one or not and the product isn't even available for sale yet.
If I had no idea what a Zune was and I saw a really slick demo at a special event showing a feature like wifi sharing, I might have an uncontrollable desire for one. But since I've had all this advance time to hash it over and hear about all the DRM restrictions, battery life, etc, all of that potential momentum is lost. I can only stay crazily exicted about a product for so long, especially a vapor product. I'll bet a lot of people are like me. It'll work with Vista because Vista's bundled with PCs. I don't know if it'll work with a media player.
Rohit
· 3 years ago
First of all I will give Zune a try. The most important feature for me is the subscription music. It works for me. I don’t want to spend money on music which I just want to try at first. For example tomorrow if I want to try out Jazz I want to be able to try 20 or 30 different tracks and keep experimenting. Subscription allows me to do this. When I finally really like an artist/music, I buy the CD. So for me subscription is a fee to try out music. Secondly I think we can talk about if one would like to try Zune or not. Or even about its features, pros and cons of the device. But I just don’t get it when people start to predict its failure or success. The truth is no matter what no one knows. There have been really stupid products in market which have been successful and some very innovative product which have fallen. No one knows how things will shape up in future. Its all about marketing and MS has a lot of money to spend upon that. So can we write Zune off? No way. However I think there is a lot more at stake for Apple than Microsoft. In any case I will wait for another three years before passing any comment upon who won or lost.
mark
· 3 years ago
Zune's differentiated feature is the wifi sharing. The value of wifi sharing (a form of networking) is maximized when lots of people have wifi sharing. Therefore, you need to get this out to lots of people. How do you do that?
Be low-priced. So MS should've released Zune first in the $99-$199 flash players range, not in the rumored $299-$399 30GB hard drive range. Unless MS plans to take a loss on each, and sell the Zune at $99 or give them away for free with an Xbox 360 or Windows PC purchase, this thing is dead for this iteration.
MS is either marketing-inept, or it is so arrogant to believe people would pay just because it was Microsoft (and not an "also-ran" like Creative, Rio, iRiver, etc)
Christian Burns
· 3 years ago
Are you going to come back for Mindcamp 3.0? November 11th and 12th. Same place as last time
TomB
· 3 years ago
"Zune’s differentiated feature is the wifi sharing. The value of wifi sharing (a form of networking) is maximized when lots of people have wifi sharing."
MSFT does not recognize the difference between on-line services that drwa from the whole planet (Facespan, Flickr, YouTube) and local user-thin environments; "Hey Mom, wanna hear my Britney Spear Covers Puff Daddy?"
Christopher Coulter
· 3 years ago
several iterations to get the Zune right
You cannot run CE like software, has to be right out the gate or it's dead. And Zune was so dead, yes, in past tense.
Marketing-inept outside of their core, is the sky blue? And even the CE that catches on and causes J Allard hype hives, costs them $5 billion and counting. Arrogant? With every microscopic fiber of their being. It's not a spec war.
This is a classic catch-22, you need a wide scale footprint, to make use of the sharing features, but you need other hooks to get you to wide. They are banking on the one element that will keep them limited. WiFi sharing needs the masses as its fuel. The sales pattern will be like Tablets, 90% Redmond area, 10% rest of USA (and world). (Well Tablets had the vertical market going for it).
So can we write Zune off? No way.
Wanta wager on that? Yes way. But in 3 years it will still be here, snailing along in some Pocket PCish/SmartPhone-like money-losing Division.
It will jizzle the tech press and all the faux analysts and poke some early adopters, but the mainstream won't know, or care. Getting to the pop culture reference point will be impossible or cost billions.
mcloki
· 3 years ago
I already thought Zune and Origami had made it to Pop Culture reference point. And now was starting to be "verbalized" Like your new web 2.0 launch went all Origami.or Your new webphone/social networking site is the Zune man.
Andru Edwards
· 3 years ago
We were at a Zune "launch" party and caught some video of the device and also got to play around with it for a bit. The thing has a great screen, but it really does need some work. It's bulky and uncomfortable in the hand - or, just not as comfortable as the thin iPod. For those interested, here is the video.
And Christian, thanks for the Mind Camp 3.0 shout-out :) It's gonna be off the hook.
Dips
· 3 years ago
Will the Zune play avi's and divx without having to convert as you do to play on the Video iPod?
steve
· 3 years ago
problem microsoft will have in selling the zune is the price.
for the same price, customers know exactly what they will get for their money if they buy an iPod (music, tv shows, movies and games).
for the same price (or a wee bit more), you can get a zune, but currently, as i understand, i could only buy music.
so as a consumer, are u willing to wait months for proposed content from microsoft or would u prefer to purchase a player that will give you access to content from day 1?
mike
· 3 years ago
"But wait, Apple is all about proprietary lock-in, hardcore DRM for music, closed software, and just about everything that is the anti-thesis of the archetypical modern hacker/geek."
Huh? You want to steal software right? Since when is OS X closed? You mean the OS is locked to the hardware to protect the hardware business, right? Okay..
This is like, what, a 15 year old argument?
You think Fairplay is 'hardcore' ... wtf...
Yea, Woz is a nerd, but.. i mean.. where are you going with this self-depricating logic..
I think the biggest obstacle for Zune is the introduction of yet another music DRM standard that is incompatible with everything else. Look what enormous lack of success Sony had trying that with ATRAC and their Connect online store.
The one advantage all the "Plays For Sure" crowd had was the promise that they all supported the same standard. Of course the fact that it didn't work half the time didn't help(!!) but Zune doesn't even have that. Everyone is going to have to chuck out all their existing purchases again or go through painful, lossy conversion routines.
Add to that the fact that the Zune is bigger, bulkier and heavier than the iPod in a market segment that that craves slim svelte portability and MS is repeating the formula that caused Rio and the other early MP3 players to lose out to the iPod originally.
Some of that bulk is used for features like wifi that will be useless while Zune holds a minuscule marketshare - and most commentators don't see that improving quickly. If you do actually find someone to share with, they can only play the song 3 times or for 3 days whichever comes first - as someone else said: "that's not sharing - that's teasing" and only if the copyright owner has allowed the file to be marked "shareable". Music library sharing in iTunes on a PC or Mac over wifi or a wired network has no such limitations. And the battery-drain of wifi doesn't bear thinking about - 12hrs of battery life with wifi turned OFF is not sounding good at all with the iPod doing between 14hrs (iPod 30GB), 20hrs for the 60Gb iPod video and 24hrs iPod Nano. What battery life does it have with wifi on? I dread to think.
The 20% larger screen is still only 320x240 resolution so images will look more pixelated than the iPod and the fact that the Zune store will only be doing audio to start with means that the player's supposed video prowess is mostly useless out of the gate as well.
Then there is the pretend click wheel which is really just a bunch of regular buttons and I can see many very disappointed users the first time they get there hands on one. 2,000+ accessories for the iPod ecosystem and Zune has an almost impossible task competing on that score as well.
Then there are the colour choices. Brown. Hmm, I'm afraid the "cool factor" just keeps getting further and further out of reach. Then there's the price - $35 more expensive than the iPod Video (if Walmart is correct), let alone the Nano, a form factor where the Zune doesn't even compete.
The story just keeps getting worse. Frankly I can't see Zune getting any sort of traction. Actually, I think Apple is the only one to benefit as in one fell swoop Microsoft has killed Apple's main opposition, the "Plays Fer Sure" ecosystem and demonstrated that Apple's vertically integrated model is the best after all.
If you know iPod is right choice.. you should also know what is wrong. Zune will incresase the sales of iPod.
rhandir
· 3 years ago
Back in #13, wrote, I had no idea it was going to involve a bevy of “leaked” photos and details. Now, people have already decided if they want one or not and the product isn’t even available for sale yet. It's not available? Geez, I had already decided that I didn't want one, but I assumed that it was already out there. It' s not for me.
It doesn't have the key feature I want: cheaper per gig than an equivalent ipod. It has lots of features I don't want (DRM on Creative Commons music) or don't need (wireless). It may have features I might want (divx playback)
rhandir
· 3 years ago
oh foo. Hitting return accidentally in the "website" textbox causes the comment to post. Oh well, you guys knew what I was getting at. Sorry Sam, your name was supposed to be up at the quote.
-r.
coimbatore
· 5 months ago
yes it is a great piece of tool, now it is every ones dearest.
All Comments
Q: Isn't your book just a rehash of the stories you've been telling for years over and over. do we really need to hear again how you called the Pope with your bluebox?
Q: Doesn't your relationship to Apple make you a hypocrite? With your love of technology for empowering people, shouldn't you have been the "poster boy" for the open source movement? Everything you do as a geek seems like you should have center stage and not Linus Torvalds. But wait, Apple is all about proprietary lock-in, hardcore DRM for music, closed software, and just about everything that is the anti-thesis of the archetypical modern hacker/geek.
Q: Have you done any engineering since developing the first Apple? You track record of founding multiple startups (self financed and VC financed) all ending in failures makes you more of a "serial flop". Do you have attention deficit - you start companies but don't like to actually do any hard work and the cronies you hire to work for you don't have to vision carry out your dreams or have you simply had a lot of startup bad-luck?
Q: If Steve Jobs wouldn't write an intro to your book because he felt you cast him in a bad light, if you're really friends, why didn't you edit it instead of trashing him and refusing to change it. Afterall, you didn't write it anyway - you just babbled into a tape recorder and hired someone to transcribe it into something readable.
My first assembly code was for a 2E. And I'm some ex-MSFT guy. Yay! I love Apple and Woz is one of my heroes. Thanks for the news, Robert.
Zune: "I've got lots of complex features!"
iPod: "I just work."
Reminds me of Wii vs. PS3. Know which one I'd buy...
I've been seeing lots of device comparisons. People that are hung up on details about screen size and FM radio presence (or not), and all the other feature details, are missing the reason why the iPod line is so successful. It's not the device - it's the platform. I wouldn't care much about the physical attributes of the device if iTunes wasn't there. That's what makes the solution so attractive. It's just so remarkably easy - and works on PCs and Macs.
Zune errored in design by trying to go bigger.
The direction I think they should have taken was smaller. i.e. NANO.
Don't stop. If MS went smaller, they could add another attachment the size of a small calculator. This attachment would be a higher quality screen to view the "MS-DEO's" or microsoft videos. The (unbreakable) screen would be small enough to fit in a shirt/suit pocket.
Now you have a fully functional technical viewer to review your channel 9/10 stuff or watch the hot movie downloads at the airport before putting it in your hold baggage LOL.
The beta version could be called the
(VEEE-DEE-OH) V-DEO lol. ; )
just a thought ... humbly submitted. I'll get back in the box now.
I own 3 iPods and 3 Macs. Yes, I have a bias. But while Zune is currently vaporware - like so much of Microsoft's output has been for the last 3 years - that is no reason to count them out.
Have they made a dent with XBox? (Not sure if it is spelled right, I'm not a gamer.) You bet. Have they made a profit? Nope. They'll attempt the exact same thing with Zune.
Zune does have some unique features, albeit not yet properly implemented. The WiFi is nice... but they should only limit the 3 day playback to their own DRM.
While limiting themselves to Windows is not a product killer, I think that limiting their downloads to non-iPod players is. Whatever happened to embrace and extend?
Regarding Woz and the rather harsh comment/questions from @1....
Jeez man, lighten up. Exactly what memorable things have YOU done in your life? Serial flop? Damn, that shows a ton of knowledge of how true innovators work. Ever listen to ANYBODY who has created something new? Maybe heard how large the percentage of failure to success they have?
Now Apple specializes in making the complex simple. Microsoft specializes in making the simple complex. I can't wait until the Zune comes out and people start actually using it.
So Microsoft understands it will take several iterations to get the Zune right? Okay. But does Microsoft understand how to make this peripheral work with the monstrosity that is the Windows platform? I doubt it...unless they manage to steal Steve from Apple.
If I had no idea what a Zune was and I saw a really slick demo at a special event showing a feature like wifi sharing, I might have an uncontrollable desire for one. But since I've had all this advance time to hash it over and hear about all the DRM restrictions, battery life, etc, all of that potential momentum is lost. I can only stay crazily exicted about a product for so long, especially a vapor product. I'll bet a lot of people are like me. It'll work with Vista because Vista's bundled with PCs. I don't know if it'll work with a media player.
Secondly I think we can talk about if one would like to try Zune or not. Or even about its features, pros and cons of the device. But I just don’t get it when people start to predict its failure or success. The truth is no matter what no one knows. There have been really stupid products in market which have been successful and some very innovative product which have fallen. No one knows how things will shape up in future. Its all about marketing and MS has a lot of money to spend upon that.
So can we write Zune off? No way.
However I think there is a lot more at stake for Apple than Microsoft.
In any case I will wait for another three years before passing any comment upon who won or lost.
Be low-priced. So MS should've released Zune first in the $99-$199 flash players range, not in the rumored $299-$399 30GB hard drive range. Unless MS plans to take a loss on each, and sell the Zune at $99 or give them away for free with an Xbox 360 or Windows PC purchase, this thing is dead for this iteration.
MS is either marketing-inept, or it is so arrogant to believe people would pay just because it was Microsoft (and not an "also-ran" like Creative, Rio, iRiver, etc)
MSFT does not recognize the difference between on-line services that drwa from the whole planet (Facespan, Flickr, YouTube) and local user-thin environments; "Hey Mom, wanna hear my Britney Spear Covers Puff Daddy?"
You cannot run CE like software, has to be right out the gate or it's dead. And Zune was so dead, yes, in past tense.
Marketing-inept outside of their core, is the sky blue? And even the CE that catches on and causes J Allard hype hives, costs them $5 billion and counting. Arrogant? With every microscopic fiber of their being. It's not a spec war.
This is a classic catch-22, you need a wide scale footprint, to make use of the sharing features, but you need other hooks to get you to wide. They are banking on the one element that will keep them limited. WiFi sharing needs the masses as its fuel. The sales pattern will be like Tablets, 90% Redmond area, 10% rest of USA (and world). (Well Tablets had the vertical market going for it).
So can we write Zune off? No way.
Wanta wager on that? Yes way. But in 3 years it will still be here, snailing along in some Pocket PCish/SmartPhone-like money-losing Division.
It will jizzle the tech press and all the faux analysts and poke some early adopters, but the mainstream won't know, or care. Getting to the pop culture reference point will be impossible or cost billions.
And now was starting to be "verbalized" Like your new web 2.0 launch went all Origami.or Your new webphone/social networking site is the Zune man.
And Christian, thanks for the Mind Camp 3.0 shout-out :) It's gonna be off the hook.
for the same price, customers know exactly what they will get for their money if they buy an iPod (music, tv shows, movies and games).
for the same price (or a wee bit more), you can get a zune, but currently, as i understand, i could only buy music.
so as a consumer, are u willing to wait months for proposed content from microsoft or would u prefer to purchase a player that will give you access to content from day 1?
Huh? You want to steal software right? Since when is OS X closed? You mean the OS is locked to the hardware to protect the hardware business, right? Okay..
This is like, what, a 15 year old argument?
You think Fairplay is 'hardcore' ... wtf...
Yea, Woz is a nerd, but.. i mean.. where are you going with this self-depricating logic..
See you on the 6th, Robert.
The one advantage all the "Plays For Sure" crowd had was the promise that they all supported the same standard. Of course the fact that it didn't work half the time didn't help(!!) but Zune doesn't even have that. Everyone is going to have to chuck out all their existing purchases again or go through painful, lossy conversion routines.
Add to that the fact that the Zune is bigger, bulkier and heavier than the iPod in a market segment that that craves slim svelte portability and MS is repeating the formula that caused Rio and the other early MP3 players to lose out to the iPod originally.
Some of that bulk is used for features like wifi that will be useless while Zune holds a minuscule marketshare - and most commentators don't see that improving quickly. If you do actually find someone to share with, they can only play the song 3 times or for 3 days whichever comes first - as someone else said: "that's not sharing - that's teasing" and only if the copyright owner has allowed the file to be marked "shareable". Music library sharing in iTunes on a PC or Mac over wifi or a wired network has no such limitations. And the battery-drain of wifi doesn't bear thinking about - 12hrs of battery life with wifi turned OFF is not sounding good at all with the iPod doing between 14hrs (iPod 30GB), 20hrs for the 60Gb iPod video and 24hrs iPod Nano. What battery life does it have with wifi on? I dread to think.
The 20% larger screen is still only 320x240 resolution so images will look more pixelated than the iPod and the fact that the Zune store will only be doing audio to start with means that the player's supposed video prowess is mostly useless out of the gate as well.
Then there is the pretend click wheel which is really just a bunch of regular buttons and I can see many very disappointed users the first time they get there hands on one. 2,000+ accessories for the iPod ecosystem and Zune has an almost impossible task competing on that score as well.
Then there are the colour choices. Brown. Hmm, I'm afraid the "cool factor" just keeps getting further and further out of reach. Then there's the price - $35 more expensive than the iPod Video (if Walmart is correct), let alone the Nano, a form factor where the Zune doesn't even compete.
The story just keeps getting worse. Frankly I can't see Zune getting any sort of traction. Actually, I think Apple is the only one to benefit as in one fell swoop Microsoft has killed Apple's main opposition, the "Plays Fer Sure" ecosystem and demonstrated that Apple's vertically integrated model is the best after all.
-Mart
Check this out for zune vs ipod
http://www.irintech.com/x1/blogarchive.php?id=294
Frankly speaking ipod is much better :)
I had no idea it was going to involve a bevy of “leaked” photos and details. Now, people have already decided if they want one or not and the product isn’t even available for sale yet.
It's not available?
Geez, I had already decided that I didn't want one, but I assumed that it was already out there. It' s not for me.
It doesn't have the key feature I want: cheaper per gig than an equivalent ipod. It has lots of features I don't want (DRM on Creative Commons music) or don't need (wireless). It may have features I might want (divx playback)
Hitting return accidentally in the "website" textbox causes the comment to post. Oh well, you guys knew what I was getting at. Sorry Sam, your name was supposed to be up at the quote.
-r.