Sorry -- but if you think that most of what Steve Jobs is communicate with other people, you don't have a clue.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Mujibur: have you ever talked with a CEO? I have.
Jonathan Schwartz told me that his #1 job is communicating with other people. That's what he does most of the time. In meetings with customers. In the press. On stage at conferences. Etc.
I worked with lots of people who worked closely with Steve Jobs and they agree that most of what he does is communicate. Yeah, he fires people once in a while to make a point. Or, he negotiates deals. Or he brainstorms ideas with his top designers and developers and strategists, but most of his important work is speaking and communicating to groups of people.
Have you ever worked with a CEO of a major company?
Brett Nordquist
· 3 years ago
This was a very interesting posts that provided a lot of insight into Microsoft. I liked how you mentioned your helped write your offer to PodTech which tell sounds a lot like they came to you and were willing to do nearly anything to get you on board. I wonder if you had sought them out or vice versa?
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Brett: John and I were on a panel discussion together at Pepperdine University (talking with MBAs). Afterward we went drinking together and started talking and I asked him whether it'd be interesting if I came to work for him and then we started riffing on that and it went from there.
Stephane Rodriguez
· 3 years ago
1) Microsoft tries to empower users? Hmm, read the WGA blog. I hope you're happy about the denial over issues that legit customers are having, and how Microsoft is introducing remotely-controlled software at the expense of users. Sure enough, this would be a good reason to leave such hostile company.
2) Didn't like Seattle anymore? Why didn't you move to the MSN labs then (or even better, Mac BU)? You are not resigning because of the commute, you must be leaving because you are sick of Microsoft.
3) Microsot easier to deal with? How? MS blogs are used as marketing tools. Might surprise you, but I prefer a lot passionate Microsoft employees taking the time to come and answer questions on public forums. That's where they are showing their worth.
4) I don't buy this "small things Microsoft has not seen". Take decentralized file sharing. It took off with Kazaa. Kazaa was a small thing? You bet not, the writing was on the wall since Internet inception.
5) Your new gig with HD videos? I don't get it yet. You are going to have a real hard time creating a passionate community of people downloading insanely huge files only to watch a passive media. Also, now that you are no more at Microsoft, you are back in a very crowded market. I hope you understand that the bulk of your audience has been listening more what you said about Microsoft because it was Microsoft, than what you said about you. It was not about you, it was about you as a Microsoft employee.
Scott Smith
· 3 years ago
What is it about the possibility of failure that drives a person? I no longer have a job after eight years at the firm. I feel a bit more alive; I'm more alert. Employees of the company asked me if I was scared: I'm not. Conflicted, yes. I was the original computer guy at the law firm, and I'm no longer employed. It's wonderful to have the blood flowing more freely... isn't it?
BTW: What else do public company CEOs do but talk, read, meet and write? What? They build widgets in their corner offices? Mujibur seems a bit rude but worse he isn't specific. Details, my man.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Stephane: there are parts of Microsoft that serve the business. At the end of the day Microsoft is a business and if it sees a way to make more money then it'll do that. I don't always agree with Microsoft. I don't like activation and this stuff either, even if I could see the need for it (piracy is a HUGE problem, particularly in societies where it's acceptable to steal intellectual property).
2) Because I didn't want to be a PM. What job would I have done? What reward would I have gotten for taking on new risk and giving up a freaking awesome job?
3) Forums are fun. I wrote 100,000 newsgroup posts in the 1990s. But, ask "normal people" about whether they use newsgroups and they have no idea. They do, however, know how to use Google, Yahoo, or MSN. Those bring up blogs many times more often than newsgroups or forums like the ones on Channel 9 (you do realize that Channel 9 is a forum too, right?)
4) Kazaa? Yeah, that really has gone on to make a big and respectable business.
5) You don't have to get what I'm gonna do. There's plenty of people out there who DO get it. PodTech is getting millions of downloads per month. So is its competitors.
As to Microsoft. You forget that I had a fairly large audience BEFORE I got to Microsoft. But, I already predicted myself that I'd lose a portion of my audience if I don't give them a payback similar to the Microsoft payback they got from when I was an insider there.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Scott >It’s wonderful to have the blood flowing more freely… isn’t it?
It sure does! Yeah, my creativity is just flowing. It might not be coming out on the blog, but it sure is in my ideas and excitement.
Steve Jobs build a product? Heheh! Ask Woz about that one!
Stephane Rodriguez
· 3 years ago
Scoble said "there are parts of Microsoft that serve the business. At the end of the day Microsoft is a business and if it sees a way to make more money then it’ll do that."
I don't have a problem with a company trying to make ton of money. I do have a problem with a company which lacks a code of ethics, and relies now on plain ext...ion to get their way. There cannot be any excuse. And again, it's hiding under the disguise of a critical security update, it's affecting legit customers (due to the many windows configurations out there), and the blog is PR. The old Microsoft lives.
Scoble said "What job would I have done?" : if MSN labs only offered you a job as a PM, then that's stupid.
Scoble said "But, ask “normal people” about whether they use newsgroups and they have no idea. They do, however, know how to use Google" : there are three things in old-style public forums that every other forum lacks (including C9) : visibility, search made efficient thanks to Google groups, search results useful thanks to MS employees answering there. Just yesterday I was tackling a problem in a FTP stack. MSDN gave no clue whatsoever. Blogs? are you serious? MSDN online? forget about it. Google groups gave me targeted answers in 3 clicks, with the blessing of official code snippets from Microsoft. That counts a lot in my book...
Scoble said "Kazaa? Yeah, that really has gone on to make a big and respectable business." : I know you are kidding, but you'll be the first to have users pay for the bandwidth to download your HD, so don't mock them, right? As for Kazaa not being in a respectable business, don't blame the tool.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Stephane: normal people have no idea what Google Groups are. Please do some user research here. They know the main google.com page, but rarely know anything else. Look at the market share stats!!! They are abysmal for anything else Google is doing.
You are actually proving my point. Advanced users know how to find things out. Normal people don't. You're advanced. Off the charts, actually, if you know about Google Groups.
The HD distribution problem will be solved soon. Watch RedSwoosh.com.
Stephane Rodriguez
· 3 years ago
Hmmmm, used Google lately? You don't have to know Google groups.
Case in point. Google groups answers come aggregated in the main regular search results page. There is not enough of that right now to my taste, the archive is vastly superior to all MSDN combined all blogs combined, but that can change any day.
Read the JoelOnSoftware post on Microsoft thinking in IFs, by opposition to Google thinking in AI.
In addition, compare that to Microsoft silently cutting off old content in MSDN in a deliberate way to push the latest technologies. Just see what .NET did to WIN32, even though our Windows world revolves around WIN32, not .NET.
Redswoosh? thanks for the link. The site is down though.
Tim
· 3 years ago
Robert - one 'exit question' I meant to ask you but didn't get around to:
Now you're not working for Microsoft, do you think you will miss people who come to your blog and, regardless of the content of a post, will leave whiny/bitchy comments furthering their own anti-MS agenda?
(for examples, cast your eyes upwards)
Will ya miss it, eh? Will ya? :-)
Matt
· 3 years ago
Quite frankly I find that an absolutely fantastic read. I don't know why, but I think that was/is the closest insight to life at Micrsoft we'll see for quite a while.
Anyway, my question. At Microsoft, were you discouraged from using non-MS products? For example, I read earlier this week that Bill Gates does not have an iPod (which is, of course, fine - it's not the law that everyone has to have one!) - if so, did you conform or rebel?
ClickRich
· 3 years ago
A question I'd like to know the answer to is "How long before you're back on the Microsoft payroll?"
Clearly, unless you're being incredibly devious, we can't expect you to know and, even if you were Mr Devious McDevious of Devious Street, we can even less expect you to tell us!
Great read, especially this point: "I would actually start a new company that’s designed to destroy the old one."
I think you meant could the Beatles copy Elvis though. :)
I do disagree with an aspect of your other post though and will write on that later.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
>At Microsoft, were you discouraged from using non-MS products?
No. The best thing was when the MSN Spaces team came over and asked me "how could we win you back?" The IE team did that too.
Mark Reinhold
· 3 years ago
Were you valuable at Microsoft?
When I first got into blogging, I was reading Dave Winer, and from him, I got to You.
And YOU brought me back to the DARK SIDE. I realized that Microsoft was changing, or trying to change. Yes, they have a lot of good products.
I never used an apple, but I have a BSD machine behind me right now, and OSx is based on unix so we are the same.
Now wait for labor day. Our Summer here starts after Labor Day. You will be working then and probably wont get to enjoy the summer, but it will be nice.
Dmad
· 3 years ago
um, a read of businessweek tells one that you were likely not even close to being the one that got Ballmer to change his positon. Unless we are being led te believe you are the chairman of this group that wrote the letter..
Your name turns up nowhere in this reporting of the issue. You weren't even on the cc of the email. I think you clearly overestimate your importance on that issue.
On your salary issue, you said repeatedly your extracurricular activities were not part of your MS duites. Those duties only entailed toting around a camera and interviewing people. So, why would MS pay your for doing something the didn't help them sell more software? It seems you were getting paid what MS felt you were worth to the company. They obviously saw no value to them in your extra-curricular activities. So, your whining about the salary was strange. Now it would have made more sense if you said "I can make more giving speeches at fringe tech conferences than I can toting around a camera". But to whine that MS wasn't compensating you for something that wasn't part of your job in the first place seemed childish.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Dmad: ask the head of the gay and lesbian group at Microsoft what he thinks. He wrote me a personal thanks. I don't care if I got the PR for it. I just care that the right thing got done.
On salary, even my night and weekend work added into my career at Microsoft. I was invited to Google because I was Microsoft's most visible blogger. Microsoft got a lot out of that visit.
Not everything at Microsoft is about selling more software.
And, maybe my skills weren't valued as much at Microsoft but they were valued by the marketplace. You might not like it. You might not agree with it. But it is there.
Sarah
· 3 years ago
Thanks for this post.
I agree with Scoble's Google Groups comment. A tool like that is blatently obvious to a tech person (likewise, so is Google Scholar, which is fantastic for academics). A regular person only knows regular google. A regular person types into that box exactly what is on their mind - believe me, I have seen people pour sentences into that box, I've seen people put in a website into that box - i.e. scobleizer.wordpress.com. And I'm talking about people with a university education.
Just because the google reader interface is very very simple, and that the link is easy to access, doesn't mean the average person has ever used it, or know what it is. Most people I know are a) afraid to click on things they don't know b) not interested in things they haven't heard of before
Stephane Rodriguez
· 3 years ago
Sarah,
In my case, results from Google groups appeared as part of the regular Google search results, aggregated at the top. I know this is not always done. I don't quite know the reason why it works like this, just many other UI tweaks that Google does every now and then. The point being, you don't have to know Google groups, it comes to you. Remember the motto of RSS : you don't have to know it, it comes to you.
I would agree that Google groups, Google reader, and the bulk of what came from Google labs so far are not mainstream, but that's besides my point.
Thank you, but be prepaid you many be getting tens of thousands of extra hits to your site by days end
web design uk
· 3 years ago
Interesting. Hmm
Lauri
· 3 years ago
Robert,
So youre the one who convinced Balmer to support the Gay Rights bill?
Yeah, technology companies really have a say so in legislation (thats sarcasm) - boneheaded move, my friend.
Only a leftie believes that legislators should write laws the people dont support, but hey, if youre moving to Cali, you should be ok with that :-P
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Lauri, I know you're a Republican. So you're for getting rid of all lobbyists who work on behalf of companies and special interest groups? Cool! Something we'd agree on! :-)
Not to mention it seems like you think that churches with 2,000 members should have any say in such things either. Is that what you're saying?
If so, I'll let you go first since you made the point. You tell your church to stay out of our public life and then I'll say the same thing to the companies I work for, OK?
Dmad
· 3 years ago
@24 Actually from a shareholder perspective and a business perspective everything IS about selling more software. If they don't they don't stay in business. It's pretty simple. And someone wants to make you a VP huh? Scary.
As for the gay rights bill, whether the right thing was done is highly debatable. Many are of the opinion companies should stay neutral on such issues. But, we can agree to disagree there. What's hilarious is how this issue showed how easily invfluenced Ballmer can be. It was an amaturish PR move on MS's part.
MS's performance during the time you were there would indicate they didn't get much out of your supposed visibility. But, I understand why you say numbers don't matter when they don't support your theory.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Dmad: since arriving at Microsoft revenues have gone up. A LOT. Profits have gone up. A LOT. Customer satisfaction numbers have gone up for the first time in about a decade.
There were thousands of employees who signed a petition. But I was the first in public to sign my own name and speak out against it.
Brian Shapiro
· 3 years ago
robert,
I'm not a republican.
I think corporations have a right to lobby, but its only proper they keep out of issues that don't directly impact their business. A corporation has a right to make a point that a law would impact their the market or their business.
Its similar for a religious organization or church. The issues are just different. A church can lobby to not have gay marriage;--and gay groups can lobby for it to be there.
---Unless there is a specific corporate perspective that matters to the issue, the involvement of corporate lobbying is hubris and unwelcome. Its not any different from a celebrity endorsing something just because they can sing and have no new or insightful perspective on the issue. Corporations shouldn't throw their weight behind issues that they have nothing distinct to say about. It makes politics more like a game and less about the reality of the issues. The corporations if they do it are doing it for PR.
Involvement of large amounts of money in politics and in contributions is a problem that i think should be met with restrictions, but thats a different issue than endorsement and lobbying that doesn't involve big money.
I made a comment when this issue first came up; we don't need corporations to be more involved in politics than they are. Its one thing to be happy to have helped a bill pass that you support, and another to be happy to have done it by using the weight of a corporation which will only support by weighing PR issues. Why are you proud of that?
You could have made a difference just mentioning the bill on your blog. You could have convinced Ballmer to make Microsoft's corporate culture more welcoming to gays. But I bet most people looking at the issue are thinking; why is it Microsoft's business?
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Because its people are affected. And, because, if a state has better laws it's easier to relocate smart people there.
Some of the best developers I know are gay. And, we've already seen how one or two people can totally change the world of software.
So, this stuff impacts Microsoft's bottom line in a very real way.
There's a reason that the tech industry is very big in San Francisco and surrounding areas.
If Microsoft wants to compete with Silicon Valley it better have an environment that is MORE friendly toward potential workers. Ironically this bill didn't pass with eight years of Microsoft's support. It was only until a small church pushed around Microsoft that it passed. There's a lesson there too. Sometimes by advocating for a specific position you'll cause a blow-back that'll hurt your cause.
scott gjerdingen
· 3 years ago
Thanks Robert!
MSFT: Wonderful opportunity, wonderful journey, wonderful exit...the wheel goes round and round, please continue to share the experience.
- scott -
Ed Kaim
· 3 years ago
Hey, I thought you weren't taking credit for Microsoft's change in stance on HB1515?
Do I get a hundred Scoble dollars to spend at Channel 9 now?
:-)
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Ed: well, I didn't take credit back then cause I didn't think I did that big a thing. But, I've gotten thanks from many gay Microsoft employees saying that my support of them meant an awful lot (including a really nice note a week or so ago from the leader of GAIM, Microsoft's gay and lesbian employee association). So, I've been convinced that I did play a key role, although I didn't think what I did was that big a deal back then.
Dmad
· 3 years ago
@32 And yet investors have been unimpressed.. A LOT. Please tell me you aren't taking credit for revenues and profits going up. Remind me again what product you were responsible for producing?
That "boo hoo! it will hurt recruiting" is a red herring. I pretty sure MS's stance on social issues will not be a make or break deal between an offer from, say, Google and and offer from Microsoft for a potential hire.
And I'm not sure but I'd be willing to bet the % of people affected in MS, or even the tech industry are reflective of society. I mean, this isn't the rag business, or the dance business. So, MS is appealing to special interest minority groups and not the larger company. Again, I rather doubt this will be a make or break deal in hiring highly skilled candidates.
So, in your "Bay Area" comment certainly your are not positing that the tech industry grew out of the gay community in the Bay Area, are you? It's likely that there might be a higher percentage of gays in the tech industry in the Bay Area because,well, there's a higher percentage of gays in the candidate poll. But that doesn't necessarily extrapolate nationally. Again, I say as you increase the candidate poll, (and I'm sure MS recruits beyond Seattle and the Bay Area) the percentage of people affected by MS's policy likely reflect the national and WW numbers. Which is to say, is 3% or under (it's NOT 10% as some are led to believe). So, in short MS caved to minority special interests. Which means they really didn't care about ALL their people, only a select few.
Look, if MS wants to have that policy, fine. Let them. They are well within their rights to have whatever hiring policies they want. Nothing wrong with that. They should NOT, however, tell elected officials how they should vote, nor try to influence what other businesses's policies should be.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
Robert, if MS had stayed out of this very hotly debated issue, my church would have been quiet as well, church mice..
If the legislature is so sure its what the people want, why are they too scared to let the people of this state vote on it? Is it possibly because no state to date has gotten approval thru the voting process to brand a lifestyle as needing extra protections? That's a big yes indeedy.
And yes, I would say lobbyists are a total cancer to a republic..
But I agree with Dmad in the extreme; there are a bunch of bullies inside MS who think they can get their sympathetic legislature to roll over the public; and to that end, I hope those legislators have a short public life and will soon be voted out.
In fact, I think we can all but count on it in the next few elections here.. :-)
Lauri
· 3 years ago
oh, and p.s. ..
our church has about 3500 members, not 2000. :-)
like Hutch keeps saying, when you step into our world, we have every right to step into yours... right?
i feel 100% sure that Antioch did not go looking for this particular fight. The Gay & Lesbian Advocates have been trying to force this on the public for more than 2 decades. The public is under no obligation to tolerate a lifestyle they dont agree with.
Therein lies the problem; you cannot and will never be able, to force the public to accept or tolerate a lifestyle they dont approve of. Not even legislation will do it .. but if the advocates inside of MS who whined to Balmer that they werent getting all the special protections they deemed necessary were really interested in what the public thinks, and not forcing themselves on the rest of us, then they should put it to a vote.
what is the problem with that?
hadi
· 3 years ago
To lauri:
You can open up the public's mind about ideas though and help them understand that gay and lesbian people are good people, who just have different urges. f like gay marriage (otherwise the bush a Back in the days of the past, many people thought that being a working woman was an "unacceptable lifestyle", that women voting was unacceptable or even that a world where blacks and whites are equal was "unacceptable". Yet those who believe in the cause of equality and equal rights 'forced' themselves on the public and made the public understand that they were just humans who deserved the same rights as majority.
I would also like to point out that there isn't any such solid majority you speak of on stufdmin would have been able to pass all the bills they wanted to ban it).
Flynn
· 3 years ago
"Huh? Name one thing that Longhorn would have let you do that Vista doesn’t let you do."
Ummmmm... WinFS!??!?!
john dodds
· 3 years ago
I'm no techie, but didn't Kazaa effectively mutate into Skype?
Jack
· 3 years ago
"The public is under no obligation to TOLERATE a lifestyle they dont agree with." (My emphasis.) -- What country are you living in?
Burrito
· 3 years ago
Robert - As a serial entrepreneur pre-MS, I can tell you that the MS experience is extremely valuable for someone coming out of school. A person can't understand a large organization, bureaucracy, or how to work with large companies without being on the inside for awhile.
Granted, there are some negatives: unnecessary process, huge delta between MS haves/have nots, inability to make life-changing money without putting in a decade or more, etc. However, it's a badge that helps make someone more well rounded and ultimately more valuable to future employers or new ventures.
It makes a lot of sense so long as a person can keep everything in perspective and make the leap when he/she is ready...as you have.
Dmad
· 3 years ago
@45. A free country. Did Germany tolerate Nazism? Did Eastern Europe tolerate Communism? If the majority of the public disagrees with a lifestyle or way of life (don't get me wrong, I'm not equating those that choose to publized their sexual lifestyle with the above) they are well within their rights to not tolerate it. Hell, the US was founded because a large number of people didn't tolerate religious oppression.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Dmad: according to my family who grew up in Nazi Germany, yes, most people DID tolerate Nazism. That's why I stand up for minorities in our society so much. The majority often behaves like assholes toward minorities.
Dmad
· 3 years ago
@42. Well, marriage is not a right, otherwise I wouldn't need the state to endorse it.
As for your women and race examples the diffence there is one cannot choose their race or gender. Now I'm sure this will get us way off the rails, but until someone can definitively prove the existence of a homosexual gene, or can explain Anne Heche or bi-sexuality, many will remain unconvinced that one is not choosing to live thet lifestyle.
Still I'm curious why the gay community feels the need to where their sexual preferences on their sleeve? I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw a "Straight Pride" parade, can you? In a way I feel that by advertising their sexual preferences they bring some if this on themselves. I could care less what one does in their bedroom, why to gays thinks it's anyone business?
But to bring this back to the original point, given that MS seems to have a rather vocal internal lobbying group in the form of the "GLEAM" group, based on the email BusinessWeek published, and that this issue had apparently been on the table for a number of times in Washington in the past, I find it hard to believe that group was not already exercising its influence on Ballmer and thus find it lacking any credibility other than Scoble's own inflated ego that he was the catalyst in causing Ballmer to roll over (no pun intended)
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Oh, Dmad, you can't be serious, can you? Every day is heterosexual day out in public. Yesterday when I was down in Seattle with Buzz I saw couples holding hands, kissing, lying together on the grass.
We make a HUGE display of heterosexual behavior. Ever been to Las Vegas? Why are there dozens of marriage chapels?
And we get a little upset when homosexuals throw a parade or fly a flag? Give me a break.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Dmad: a little known fact. My boss at the time was, and is, a member of the church that was pressuring Microsoft to change its stance.
So, taking that stand was certainly not a smart career move to make. Luckily I worked for a boss that separated his beliefs from his business decisions. But I didn't know that for sure before making that post.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
Robert,
I find this all truly fascinating. You will not have the discussion of a vote, will you? You simply cannot allow the public to voice its opinion on something YOU think we should all accept.
I can tolerate a number of things I dont approve of, but when one section of society deems they need "special protections" that the rest of us dont get, then yes, its an issue.
Gays in America are not being forced to sit in the back of the busses and never have been. Give me a break - they get a social pass on pretty much everything.
As for pride parades? Show me where heteros walk naked down any city street (I've lived all over the country - Ive seen it) and expect everyone else to just shut up.
Why are you so reluctant to allow the public to vote...? Can you answer that question?
As for Antioch, the church got involved AFTER the fact. And why is it a problem for a church to have an opinion on a political matter? There is actually no separation rule, although lefties for decades have been saying there is.
The Constitution states: Congress shall make no law intituting a state religion. But churches are more than welcome to have opinions; churches are not barred from this behavior.
Granted, since their opinion doesnt match up with yours, they are automatically wrong?
But still, answer my question about putting it to a public vote - if youre able.
Joe Clark
· 3 years ago
The United States seems alone among constitutional democracies in its inability to see the dangers of subjecting minority rights to majority votes. It seems impossible to eradicate the myth that people should be punished, e.g., by being fired from a job, because others disapprove of them. Adherents are curiously willing to use 21st-century technologies like blogging, and 20th-century methods like lobbying, to perpetuate a philosophy that seems nothing more than medieval.
Seen at a purely pragmatic level, if you run a business in a state that's hostile to minorities, even to minorities you think justly and properly deserve hostility, your business is gonna suffer. Deservedly.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
Joe, we are not a constitutional democracy, we are a Republic... big difference.
as for gays being fired from a job, simply because they are gay? That is already illegal. but it is illegal under an umbrella of issues that are illegal to fire someone for, and have been for some time now.
MS is among the frontrunners in the business world for allowing same sex benefits...
what Robert supposedly "talked Steve Balmer into supporting" was SPECIAL rights, for an already protected class of people; the American Worker.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Lauri, then you might explain why many Microsoft employees wrote me and said "thanks" and explained why they remained in the closet. See, even if something is illegal, still doesn't make it uncommon. It's very hard to prove discrimination, too. Truth is we don't have many people who have an open mind to people who are different than themselves.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Lauri, you've obviously never been to New Orleans. Or Las Vegas during New Years. Or, San Francisco during Bay to Breakers. There are naked heterosexuals there in public. In Berkeley one naked guy even went to UC Cal.
And we don't live in a Democracy. If we did we'd see the majority beat up the minority everytime.
Sounds like you'd be happy in Nazi Germany. There the majority had its say.
I'm more into protecting minorities from being crapped on by the majorities.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Not to mention quite a few beaches in Florida, Hawaii, and California. Even the ones who wear clothes only cover a few square inches of their bodies.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
Robert, I lived in New Orleans for about two years.. so, try again.
And are you calling me a Nazi? Wow... truly classy. And since the gays are NOT in fact "being crapped on" by the majority, this issue is less than interesting to me.
Guess you just cannot answer it truthfully; you'd prefer to have our laws legislated to us, than let the public have any say. Its the way of the lefties ... make laws that the rest of us spend decades trying to extract back out, since they are wholly unecessary.
And for being such an advocate for "tolerance" you have shown zip, zero none for anyone that doesnt agree with your leftie bent. Good luck with that.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
One more thing; as for the gays who are in the closet still? That isnt because of what society says; its because they are inherently dishonest people. Dishonest with themselves, and everyone around them.
If we have to give them special rights so they can come out of the closet, then thats just sad. Nobody makes that decision but THEM. Not us.
And before you try that childishness of "guess YOU dont know any gay people!!!" I have a great brother who is gay, as well as a few uncles .. various friends, and our family doctor for the first 8 years we lived here.
Go try painting someone less intelligent into a corner with your hand wringing... it aint working.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
and one last thing, then im truly done with discussing anything of merit on your blog.
the naked gays who simulate sex on the streets in their Pride Parades are just an embarrassment to society as a whole. so, comparing a girl in a bikini on a beach to a gay male in assless chaps simulating sex with his partner of the moment is a bit of a stretch, even for you.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Lauri,
I didn't say you're a Nazi. Please be a careful reader. I said you would have LOVED the 1940s society in Germany. Why? Cause the majority kicked ass over the minority.
I answered the question very straightforward: we live in a representative democracy. Where law rules, not the mob. You want the mob to rule. I don't.
I've seen what that gets us. Our Republican mob is taking away rights left and right.
And, if you think Gays are treated equally well everywhere (even in California, where I have observed hate acts on playgrounds and murders on the street of San Francisco) you are drinking better Merlot than I am on this Fourth of July. Can I have some?
Since you lived in New Orleans (I'm still not sure about that) then you might talk to Ernie the Attorney and hear his stories of sex acts that take place during Mardi Graw. Heterosexual ones. Right out in front of everyone. And I'm not talking about the flashing of mamary glands that Maryam and I saw either.
Macboy
· 3 years ago
Scoble, I've read your blog for a few years now and admittedly have had mixed feelings about most of your writing. I've never commented here before but given I work for Apple I want to clarify that what you do, whether you call it communication or carry around a camera, is not at all comparable to the what Steve Jobs. The reason MS is not willing to pay you X dollars is because you don't have a measurable impact on their bottomline, it's simply not worth it because they can create a new Scoble very easily. On the other hand, someone like Steve Jobs. a great developer or even a salesmen deal directly with the companies business and thus are valued for higher. They cannot be replaced so easily.
Your type of work, blogging, is of value to Podtech. That is their core business, and thus they are willing to compensate you for it. Hopefully that helps clarify to you why MS or even us at Apple wouldn't pay you more then 100k a year.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Macboy: how do you know that Apple didn't offer me a job? I turned down quite a few jobs around the industry for more money than I'm making at Podtech.
And a Scoble can be created quite easily? Hmmm, it takes at least nine months and a Scoble has to be involved in the process and all the ones I know are already taken! :-)
But, seriously, if you think that a new one of me can be created quickly then you are smoking good dope over there in Steve Jobs' land. Can you bring some to my house in Half Moon Bay when I arrive?
You did miss that I got the best reviews at Google's Zeitgeist after only Malcolm Gladwell, didn't you? That I beat a Vice President of Microsoft's audience scores there who also spoke. That I beat the CEOs from AOL, Yahoo, and many other big name places. If it's so easy to communicate with audiences why didn't anyone else beat me?
Communication is NEVER as easy as it seems.
Hell, all of Bill Gates speech writers and coaches still haven't helped HIM become as good a communicator as Steve Jobs.
Lauri
· 3 years ago
Robert,
I suggest you learn about the actual country you live in: the US is a representative republic regardless of what you wish we were, which means we are NOT a representative democracy.
As for Republicans taking away your rights? LOL! Thats a good one. I always get a kick out of the predictable responses of people who hate that the President's first job is to protect the country.
But we'll show Bush come 08... cause I'm never voting for him again!
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Thanks for correcting me, I just misspoke there. Too much emotion, not enough thinking. Heheh.
At times of "protection" is when we always hand over our rights. We're so predictable.
dahowlett
· 3 years ago
Excellent insights Robert and one that my profession could learn a great deal from. All done without buting NDAs etc. That's an art.
Dmad
· 3 years ago
@66. Well, I must admit you are sticking to the talking points, well. Rights being taken away for "protection". Seems no one had a problem with it during Roosevelt's tenure, but could that be because he was a Dem? Nah!
No one is saying gays don't get treated unfairly. But, often it's their own doing because they shout from the rooftops that they are gay and demand that they get special rights? Do you come into a room and announce you are straigth. Again, I could care less what your sexual proclivities are, it shouldn't be relevant to anything.
Your denseness never ceases to amaze me. I never said heterosexuals don't engage in PDA's. Gays do to, I have no problem with that. What I said was heterosexuals don't organize "Straight Pride" parades and demand that attention be given to them because f of their sexual choice like many gays do. I have met, worked with, and are friends with many gays that are in fact embarrassed by such parades and the demands to heard, given "special rights" and wanting to use the court system to create laws rather than enforce them. They feel that in the long run it is counterproductive. Amazingly by not choosing to shout their gayness from the rooftops saying "We're here and we're queer", they find that they get treated rather fairly.
As for your attack on MacBoy, again your defensiveness gets in the way of seeing his point. So you got good irrelevant scores at some random tech conference. Other than you, who the hell cares? No one but you likely remembered it a day later. How many of those scores resulted in more sales of MS software? Shipping Vista sooner? Taking share away from your competitors? Yea, again, I know numbers that translate into profits don't matter to you when it doesn't support your position, but his point was your actual job at MS seemed to be easily plug and playable, not your extracurricular activities.
And Lauri, not sure what you would be showing Bush in '08. He can't run again.
mickell
· 3 years ago
Cool.
Barry
· 3 years ago
Dmad, while I'm mostly with you (& Lauri) on "gay rights" (and Lauri on "representative republic"), I must say that Scoble's proof is more compelling than you suggest with your latest rhetorical flourishes.
It is NOT irrelevant that Scoble has been recently rated so highly as a "communicator" -- against distinguished peers and competitors. And the gig was not discretely "extracurricular." It's pertinent to his point that Scoble can communicate.
Now, you may argue that Scoble would be little without his Microsoft leverage. Maybe (though he'd likely reply with more historical evidence, e.g., Ch.9). But how many employees had opportunity to leverage Microsoft? And where is the near equivalent...at the same ethical level (i.e., excluding mini)? Maybe Scoble is not just a compelling communicator (external to Microsoft) but also a persuasive politician (internal).
And you could press your point on ROI. Coming from the Direct Marketing world, I sympathize. We want everything to be denominatable, trackable. But some things can't be. Some values can't be so reduced. "Helping to change the face of Microsoft" is a fuzzy feat. (But it might be a real feat, nonetheless!)
But to suggest that Scoble's role (not mere "job") is "plug and playable".... Really? (Technically, Steve Jobs' job is too. How many more copies of hardware has Steve directly sold...than, say, Sculley?)
Now, granted, Scoble is no CEO, President, or Founder of Apple or Microsoft. But that's not the point. We are entering a new (tech) era, and Scoble has been one of its chief communicators...for a chief company and her customers.
And consider the "News." Were Rather, Jennings, Brokaw (or Cronkite) heads of their companies? Yet are their roles "plug and play"? Blogging may be different, but not so completely as you seem to suggest. Not for non-News companies...
Yesterday it was PR, today it is blogger as "bridge" between customer and corporation. What if 1,000,000 read him and 1% soften toward Microsoft while Microsoft actually becomes more "friendly"? Is there no value there?
Finally, are you quite sure that no one, nowhere, has reconsidered buying Microsoft (stock or product) in partial consideration of Robert's words? (If so, I'll happily provide a personal case study.)
As we learned from one of the founders of "Direct Marketing": "The pen is mightier than the sword." Words change the world. While I do not support Robert in his use of them for certain advocacies, I recognize his distinctive skills for what they are. Their value should not be understated.
irwin
· 3 years ago
Scoble - I've worked at MS for more than 5 years - how is it that I've never heard of you nor what you do?
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Irwin, I don't know. Where you been all this time?
Lauri
· 3 years ago
@68
Dmad, its a joke...of course Bush cant run again. But the Dems better start trotting out something new other than "I hate George W Bush" if they hope to ever get elected again.
Granted, for most conservatives GW is far too liberal - so, the Dems better pull one big rabbit out of their hats come 08.... but I dont think its likely.
Tobin
· 3 years ago
So, Robert, you take pride in helping throw us back into the days when only the rich could vote and when, oddly enough, minorities had NO say-so in the rights of the land? "How so", you might ask?
Back in our early colonies, land ownership is what granted voting rights to an individual. This generally kept out those "pesky minorities, women and poor people" -- leaving the decision making to high-minded rich people. Never mind the fact that the majority of people were NOT rich and minorities were too busy getting beaten by their plantation "owners" to go house shopping (please DO sense my outrage and sarcasm all at once).
You support having multi-billion dollar mega-corporations push their weight around to pass laws. (and even put aside the fact that you pushed for the two richest white guys in the company to put their support behind this bill). By doing so, a single few rich guys who run the company can bowl over the opinions of the masses -- effectively putting us back before the 15th amendment, the 19th amendment, and the voting rights act.
You stated that you wanted churches to stay out of politics yet our whole political system was created out of the need for religious liberty. I also didn't see you complaining when Congress made a law that created the Department of Education and then prohibited the free exercise of religion there (which had been done since we landed on Plymouth Rock).
Be truthful, you aren't fighting for minorities, you are pushing an agenda that would not have passed if you really believed in the democratic process.
Furthermore, this country was not founded on minority rule; it was founded on majority rule. All individuals are conferred the same rights, but when those votes are tallied, the most votes win. If that means that the majority of people say that you can't wear purple shirts on Friday, then by golly, that's what needs to happen. This is why these decisions were supposed to be left to the states and local governments. Communities could make up rules that made sense to them, and some large group of nay-sayers from across the country couldn't force them to change just because they felt they should.
The point being Robert, you subverted the democratic system, pushed for two rich white guys to put their weight behind a law, then got out of the state so that you could revel in screwing the system once again. Let me guess, you voted for Kerry?
Tobin
· 3 years ago
> Not to mention quite a few beaches in Florida, > Hawaii, and California. Even the ones who wear > clothes only cover a few square inches of their > bodies. > Comment by Robert Scoble — July 4, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
And did you stop to ask everyone if they were all heterosexual/homosexual? How could you tell? Oh, they were holding hands with a woman? I have gay friends that do that all the time. The difference is, Robert, I have some gay friends. I don't approve of the lifestyle and they know it. They don't agree with my beliefs, and I know it. The difference is that we have common sense and respect for one another's differences. They have enough sense to say that it's wrong for people to parade down a street naked just as much as anyone else.
Another tactic of the drones that schools like Berkley pump out is that they immediately tell people they are Nazis or compare them to Nazis simply because they don't let the minority viewpoints overrun majority views. How about holding up a real argument instead of resorting to ad hominem? Once you actually come back with facts and agree to stay on point, then we can discuss this intelligently. Until then, you are just another drone following the brainwashing you were given in the socialist school system we can state-run universities.
range
· 3 years ago
Interesting stuff, I wondered how this happened.
Drew
· 3 years ago
I hope I'm not too late to add to this. I'm an ex-'softie who spent the last few years in the Windows division. At the risk of being lost amongst the trolls but with the hope of actually helping someone out there . . . here are my reactions.
My perception is that most 'softies might not know you because most folks live in silos. The annual tech fair is an eye opener for a lot of people who don't have any idea what the rest of the company is doing. Is it any surprise that "Scoble" isn't a buzzword internally? If I would change one thing about Microsoft culture it would be this. Or maybe the empire-building that I believe eventually leads to the silo lifestyle.
IE 7 and Vista both have (shoddy) RSS client support. Not to mention the Live initiative. It's not that everyone at Microsoft is clueless, but rather that unless something has a solid business model it just ain't gonna happen. People outside of Microsoft didn't see the HUGE internal furvor from the folks with their boots on the ground (Individual Contributors) about OSS as everyone tried to get senior management to realize that Linux, Firefox, et al. were not only viable, but possibly a threat to some of the company's bottom line. I realize this runs counter to the silo statement above, but there are certainly some if not many engineers in the company who are real geeks, seeking out all the new cool things. Heck, RaymondC's sig used to be "just another Linux hacker". For better ___ support, the mantra is always "wait for the next service pack". Probably applies in this case.
Windows release cycles seem to have changed. The old model is 1) release the RTM version and 2) everyone finally runs it once you release SP1. The new model is to add 3) there's some "refresh" release like XP SP2 or WS03 R2 that is sort of a mini-RTM for a new OS. That seems to be the mechanism to add all those features that customers really wanted but just didn't ship at RTM. I wasn't an exec. I don't know what happens most days in the war meetings. I'm just a nobody. That's only what I observed from the trenches. I suppose it's better than the wait for NT4 SP4 was.
Remaking Microsoft into two camps, the younger of which is intended to kill the elder, sounds too much like an Apple nightmare of yore. I don't think you're Mini, but maybe you're related to Steve Jobs. As an engineer, that sounds dreadful. I leave it to anyone interested to Google up that history lesson. *shudder*
I completely agree about the need for a naming dictator. Forget about the personas. I've never met Abby or Ichiro. I'm more worried about my mom. I *love* my mom. The whole Messenger confusion is only one example of the needless support headaches I have with her. Maybe in some imaginary world those things bother Abby or Ichiro. I have no idea. I only know that mom doesn't like it.
I also agree that people hate Microsoft because it is now Goliath. I still remember when it was David instead. David could fight kinda dirty 'cause he was the underdog. Goliath needs to just stand there and take the hurt. Microsoft as David has gone the way of the Blibbet. Were I a bit more superstitious I'd cry out "resurrect the Blibbet", but I'm not. Goliath isn't cool. I don't know how to change that.
As far as roles go in Windows . . . well . . . that's a deep problem. Look to the NT object manager and ask how it should be changed to "understand" roles. Start there at the core and build out. I agree that the development community as a whole (and Microsoft especially) needs to start thinking in terms of roles. In practical terms, things are a little better in Unix-land. In design terms . . . um . . . I don't want to start a flame war, so I'll lay off. Suffice it to say that there are some really smart people in the Windows division who are starting to think about roles instead of just entities and their permissions (a big part of the problem is rooted in the security model). Expect a big change in the way stuff works. In 10-15 years. :-( I hope that I didn't break my NDA somehow with these statements.
On the inability to see small things: Absolutely any new initiative needs a business model. How much income can that new thing make? How much will the company lose if it doesn't implement that? The little things usually don't have any definable $$$ impact. I agree that there ought to be more flexibility to explore new income sources (meaning cool new tech), but unless you're in research that's probably not going to happen at Microsoft. Yes, there needs to be change. Taking small risks can pay off in the large. Taking large risks that the company keeps dumping money into might do that, too, but for my money I'd rahter have thousands of small longshot bets than only a handful of allegedly-not-longshots that seem to eventually pan out to be money pits.
Will Mac and Windows become one? Was that supposed to be a real question or a troll? Do that DaveC interview you wanted to do. Then go talk with some devs on Mach. I just don't see that happening. Ever. Apple currently (and quite happily) runs on a Unix(-like?) kernel. Windows is NT, which at heart is very VMS-like. Unix and VMS are oil and water (or vice versa). Dual booting might become more common. Once Bootcamp RTMs I'm going to go buy a Mac. There have been too many problems reported from early adopters for me to want to trust Bootcamp yet, though.
On the Google love (or not?): Google treats its engineers amazingly well. I have no idea about the non-engineers. It's biggest draw as an employer is exactly that. Work on cool stuff with very little management or process overhead, ship frequently, live/breathe tech but eat tasty healthy free food, be surrounded by some of the smartest people in the industry, and spend one day a week working on something else - whatever else, but be productive. Tell any engineer "I'm going to take away all of the little problems in your day to day life and let you just focus on solving problems". Hired. Period. That's Google. What they actually produce doesn't really excite me and I'll probably never work there, but I can see the reason they drain brains away from the likes of Microsoft.
In regard to Richard's question about Longhorn and Vista: Gotta ship the bits. Sometimes that means cutting most or all of the 3 main pillars you were building the product around. Oh, well. Anything good will eventually wander back into the source tree and ship in a later version. Maybe one day we'll finally see all of the Cairo features on a desktop. Who knows?
And about working at Microsoft: I went to Microsoft straight out of college. I spent ~7 years there working at a company that I would consider to be one of the best "finishing schools" for software engineers. On the one hand, there are smart people there working on almost anything you're interested in doing in software. On the other, it's like New York, New York - it can be rough; if you can make it there you can make it anywhere. I recommend it highly. I interviewed with several companies who told me that they prefer candidates with that kind of background.
Thanks for hearing/reading me out. I apologize for the length of the comment and also for my lack of any spelling or grammar checking. Hope it's not too offensive to the dictionary-huggers out there.
- Drew
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Drew, thanks, I appreciated every one of your comments, even the ones that disagreed with what I said. I learned a lot, and that's the most I can ask for. Would love to meet you someday.
As for new company to compete with the old? I guess that's what we're getting with Google anyway. Too bad that Gates didn't just spin off an Internet division to compete with the old fogeys anyway back in the late 1990s. If he had maybe Google wouldn't have existed. But, that's the innovator's dilemma, isn't it?
Shaveta Aggarwal
· 1 year ago
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All Comments
Jonathan Schwartz told me that his #1 job is communicating with other people. That's what he does most of the time. In meetings with customers. In the press. On stage at conferences. Etc.
I worked with lots of people who worked closely with Steve Jobs and they agree that most of what he does is communicate. Yeah, he fires people once in a while to make a point. Or, he negotiates deals. Or he brainstorms ideas with his top designers and developers and strategists, but most of his important work is speaking and communicating to groups of people.
Have you ever worked with a CEO of a major company?
2) Didn't like Seattle anymore? Why didn't you move to the MSN labs then (or even better, Mac BU)? You are not resigning because of the commute, you must be leaving because you are sick of Microsoft.
3) Microsot easier to deal with? How? MS blogs are used as marketing tools. Might surprise you, but I prefer a lot passionate Microsoft employees taking the time to come and answer questions on public forums. That's where they are showing their worth.
4) I don't buy this "small things Microsoft has not seen". Take decentralized file sharing. It took off with Kazaa. Kazaa was a small thing? You bet not, the writing was on the wall since Internet inception.
5) Your new gig with HD videos? I don't get it yet. You are going to have a real hard time creating a passionate community of people downloading insanely huge files only to watch a passive media. Also, now that you are no more at Microsoft, you are back in a very crowded market. I hope you understand that the bulk of your audience has been listening more what you said about Microsoft because it was Microsoft, than what you said about you. It was not about you, it was about you as a Microsoft employee.
BTW: What else do public company CEOs do but talk, read, meet and write? What? They build widgets in their corner offices? Mujibur seems a bit rude but worse he isn't specific. Details, my man.
2) Because I didn't want to be a PM. What job would I have done? What reward would I have gotten for taking on new risk and giving up a freaking awesome job?
3) Forums are fun. I wrote 100,000 newsgroup posts in the 1990s. But, ask "normal people" about whether they use newsgroups and they have no idea. They do, however, know how to use Google, Yahoo, or MSN. Those bring up blogs many times more often than newsgroups or forums like the ones on Channel 9 (you do realize that Channel 9 is a forum too, right?)
4) Kazaa? Yeah, that really has gone on to make a big and respectable business.
5) You don't have to get what I'm gonna do. There's plenty of people out there who DO get it. PodTech is getting millions of downloads per month. So is its competitors.
As to Microsoft. You forget that I had a fairly large audience BEFORE I got to Microsoft. But, I already predicted myself that I'd lose a portion of my audience if I don't give them a payback similar to the Microsoft payback they got from when I was an insider there.
It sure does! Yeah, my creativity is just flowing. It might not be coming out on the blog, but it sure is in my ideas and excitement.
Steve Jobs build a product? Heheh! Ask Woz about that one!
I don't have a problem with a company trying to make ton of money. I do have a problem with a company which lacks a code of ethics, and relies now on plain ext...ion to get their way. There cannot be any excuse. And again, it's hiding under the disguise of a critical security update, it's affecting legit customers (due to the many windows configurations out there), and the blog is PR. The old Microsoft lives.
Scoble said "What job would I have done?" : if MSN labs only offered you a job as a PM, then that's stupid.
Scoble said "But, ask “normal people” about whether they use newsgroups and they have no idea. They do, however, know how to use Google" : there are three things in old-style public forums that every other forum lacks (including C9) : visibility, search made efficient thanks to Google groups, search results useful thanks to MS employees answering there. Just yesterday I was tackling a problem in a FTP stack. MSDN gave no clue whatsoever. Blogs? are you serious? MSDN online? forget about it. Google groups gave me targeted answers in 3 clicks, with the blessing of official code snippets from Microsoft. That counts a lot in my book...
Scoble said "Kazaa? Yeah, that really has gone on to make a big and respectable business." : I know you are kidding, but you'll be the first to have users pay for the bandwidth to download your HD, so don't mock them, right?
As for Kazaa not being in a respectable business, don't blame the tool.
You are actually proving my point. Advanced users know how to find things out. Normal people don't. You're advanced. Off the charts, actually, if you know about Google Groups.
The HD distribution problem will be solved soon. Watch RedSwoosh.com.
Case in point. Google groups answers come aggregated in the main regular search results page. There is not enough of that right now to my taste, the archive is vastly superior to all MSDN combined all blogs combined, but that can change any day.
Read the JoelOnSoftware post on Microsoft thinking in IFs, by opposition to Google thinking in AI.
In addition, compare that to Microsoft silently cutting off old content in MSDN in a deliberate way to push the latest technologies. Just see what .NET did to WIN32, even though our Windows world revolves around WIN32, not .NET.
Redswoosh? thanks for the link. The site is down though.
Now you're not working for Microsoft, do you think you will miss people who come to your blog and, regardless of the content of a post, will leave whiny/bitchy comments furthering their own anti-MS agenda?
(for examples, cast your eyes upwards)
Will ya miss it, eh? Will ya? :-)
Anyway, my question. At Microsoft, were you discouraged from using non-MS products? For example, I read earlier this week that Bill Gates does not have an iPod (which is, of course, fine - it's not the law that everyone has to have one!) - if so, did you conform or rebel?
Clearly, unless you're being incredibly devious, we can't expect you to know and, even if you were Mr Devious McDevious of Devious Street, we can even less expect you to tell us!
Yours, someone-who's-on-their-4th-technology-start-up.
"I would actually start a new company that’s designed to destroy the old one."
I think you meant could the Beatles copy Elvis though. :)
I do disagree with an aspect of your other post though and will write on that later.
No. The best thing was when the MSN Spaces team came over and asked me "how could we win you back?" The IE team did that too.
When I first got into blogging, I was reading Dave Winer, and from him, I got to You.
And YOU brought me back to the DARK SIDE. I realized that Microsoft was changing, or trying to change. Yes, they have a lot of good products.
I never used an apple, but I have a BSD machine behind me right now, and OSx is based on unix so we are the same.
Now wait for labor day. Our Summer here starts after Labor Day. You will be working then and probably wont get to enjoy the summer, but it will be nice.
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/...
Your name turns up nowhere in this reporting of the issue. You weren't even on the cc of the email. I think you clearly overestimate your importance on that issue.
On your salary issue, you said repeatedly your extracurricular activities were not part of your MS duites. Those duties only entailed toting around a camera and interviewing people. So, why would MS pay your for doing something the didn't help them sell more software? It seems you were getting paid what MS felt you were worth to the company. They obviously saw no value to them in your extra-curricular activities. So, your whining about the salary was strange. Now it would have made more sense if you said "I can make more giving speeches at fringe tech conferences than I can toting around a camera". But to whine that MS wasn't compensating you for something that wasn't part of your job in the first place seemed childish.
On salary, even my night and weekend work added into my career at Microsoft. I was invited to Google because I was Microsoft's most visible blogger. Microsoft got a lot out of that visit.
Not everything at Microsoft is about selling more software.
And, maybe my skills weren't valued as much at Microsoft but they were valued by the marketplace. You might not like it. You might not agree with it. But it is there.
I agree with Scoble's Google Groups comment. A tool like that is blatently obvious to a tech person (likewise, so is Google Scholar, which is fantastic for academics). A regular person only knows regular google. A regular person types into that box exactly what is on their mind - believe me, I have seen people pour sentences into that box, I've seen people put in a website into that box - i.e. scobleizer.wordpress.com. And I'm talking about people with a university education.
Just because the google reader interface is very very simple, and that the link is easy to access, doesn't mean the average person has ever used it, or know what it is. Most people I know are a) afraid to click on things they don't know b) not interested in things they haven't heard of before
In my case, results from Google groups appeared as part of the regular Google search results, aggregated at the top. I know this is not always done. I don't quite know the reason why it works like this, just many other UI tweaks that Google does every now and then. The point being, you don't have to know Google groups, it comes to you. Remember the motto of RSS : you don't have to know it, it comes to you.
I would agree that Google groups, Google reader, and the bulk of what came from Google labs so far are not mainstream, but that's besides my point.
Thank you, but be prepaid you many be getting tens of thousands of extra hits to your site by days end
So youre the one who convinced Balmer to support the Gay Rights bill?
Yeah, technology companies really have a say so in legislation (thats sarcasm) - boneheaded move, my friend.
Only a leftie believes that legislators should write laws the people dont support, but hey, if youre moving to Cali, you should be ok with that :-P
Not to mention it seems like you think that churches with 2,000 members should have any say in such things either. Is that what you're saying?
If so, I'll let you go first since you made the point. You tell your church to stay out of our public life and then I'll say the same thing to the companies I work for, OK?
As for the gay rights bill, whether the right thing was done is highly debatable. Many are of the opinion companies should stay neutral on such issues. But, we can agree to disagree there. What's hilarious is how this issue showed how easily invfluenced Ballmer can be. It was an amaturish PR move on MS's part.
MS's performance during the time you were there would indicate they didn't get much out of your supposed visibility. But, I understand why you say numbers don't matter when they don't support your theory.
There were thousands of employees who signed a petition. But I was the first in public to sign my own name and speak out against it.
I'm not a republican.
I think corporations have a right to lobby, but its only proper they keep out of issues that don't directly impact their business. A corporation has a right to make a point that a law would impact their the market or their business.
Its similar for a religious organization or church. The issues are just different. A church can lobby to not have gay marriage;--and gay groups can lobby for it to be there.
---Unless there is a specific corporate perspective that matters to the issue, the involvement of corporate lobbying is hubris and unwelcome. Its not any different from a celebrity endorsing something just because they can sing and have no new or insightful perspective on the issue. Corporations shouldn't throw their weight behind issues that they have nothing distinct to say about. It makes politics more like a game and less about the reality of the issues. The corporations if they do it are doing it for PR.
Involvement of large amounts of money in politics and in contributions is a problem that i think should be met with restrictions, but thats a different issue than endorsement and lobbying that doesn't involve big money.
I made a comment when this issue first came up; we don't need corporations to be more involved in politics than they are. Its one thing to be happy to have helped a bill pass that you support, and another to be happy to have done it by using the weight of a corporation which will only support by weighing PR issues. Why are you proud of that?
You could have made a difference just mentioning the bill on your blog. You could have convinced Ballmer to make Microsoft's corporate culture more welcoming to gays. But I bet most people looking at the issue are thinking; why is it Microsoft's business?
Some of the best developers I know are gay. And, we've already seen how one or two people can totally change the world of software.
So, this stuff impacts Microsoft's bottom line in a very real way.
There's a reason that the tech industry is very big in San Francisco and surrounding areas.
If Microsoft wants to compete with Silicon Valley it better have an environment that is MORE friendly toward potential workers. Ironically this bill didn't pass with eight years of Microsoft's support. It was only until a small church pushed around Microsoft that it passed. There's a lesson there too. Sometimes by advocating for a specific position you'll cause a blow-back that'll hurt your cause.
MSFT: Wonderful opportunity, wonderful journey, wonderful exit...the wheel goes round and round, please continue to share the experience.
- scott -
http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2005/05/06.htm...
Do I get a hundred Scoble dollars to spend at Channel 9 now?
:-)
That "boo hoo! it will hurt recruiting" is a red herring. I pretty sure MS's stance on social issues will not be a make or break deal between an offer from, say, Google and and offer from Microsoft for a potential hire.
And I'm not sure but I'd be willing to bet the % of people affected in MS, or even the tech industry are reflective of society. I mean, this isn't the rag business, or the dance business. So, MS is appealing to special interest minority groups and not the larger company. Again, I rather doubt this will be a make or break deal in hiring highly skilled candidates.
So, in your "Bay Area" comment certainly your are not positing that the tech industry grew out of the gay community in the Bay Area, are you? It's likely that there might be a higher percentage of gays in the tech industry in the Bay Area because,well, there's a higher percentage of gays in the candidate poll. But that doesn't necessarily extrapolate nationally. Again, I say as you increase the candidate poll, (and I'm sure MS recruits beyond Seattle and the Bay Area) the percentage of people affected by MS's policy likely reflect the national and WW numbers. Which is to say, is 3% or under (it's NOT 10% as some are led to believe). So, in short MS caved to minority special interests. Which means they really didn't care about ALL their people, only a select few.
Look, if MS wants to have that policy, fine. Let them. They are well within their rights to have whatever hiring policies they want. Nothing wrong with that. They should NOT, however, tell elected officials how they should vote, nor try to influence what other businesses's policies should be.
If the legislature is so sure its what the people want, why are they too scared to let the people of this state vote on it? Is it possibly because no state to date has gotten approval thru the voting process to brand a lifestyle as needing extra protections? That's a big yes indeedy.
And yes, I would say lobbyists are a total cancer to a republic..
But I agree with Dmad in the extreme; there are a bunch of bullies inside MS who think they can get their sympathetic legislature to roll over the public; and to that end, I hope those legislators have a short public life and will soon be voted out.
In fact, I think we can all but count on it in the next few elections here.. :-)
our church has about 3500 members, not 2000. :-)
like Hutch keeps saying, when you step into our world, we have every right to step into yours... right?
i feel 100% sure that Antioch did not go looking for this particular fight. The Gay & Lesbian Advocates have been trying to force this on the public for more than 2 decades. The public is under no obligation to tolerate a lifestyle they dont agree with.
Therein lies the problem; you cannot and will never be able, to force the public to accept or tolerate a lifestyle they dont approve of. Not even legislation will do it .. but if the advocates inside of MS who whined to Balmer that they werent getting all the special protections they deemed necessary were really interested in what the public thinks, and not forcing themselves on the rest of us, then they should put it to a vote.
what is the problem with that?
You can open up the public's mind about ideas though and help them understand that gay and lesbian people are good people, who just have different urges.
f like gay marriage (otherwise the bush a
Back in the days of the past, many people thought that being a working woman was an "unacceptable lifestyle", that women voting was unacceptable or even that a world where blacks and whites are equal was "unacceptable". Yet those who believe in the cause of equality and equal rights 'forced' themselves on the public and made the public understand that they were just humans who deserved the same rights as majority.
I would also like to point out that there isn't any such solid majority you speak of on stufdmin would have been able to pass all the bills they wanted to ban it).
Ummmmm... WinFS!??!?!
Granted, there are some negatives: unnecessary process, huge delta between MS haves/have nots, inability to make life-changing money without putting in a decade or more, etc. However, it's a badge that helps make someone more well rounded and ultimately more valuable to future employers or new ventures.
It makes a lot of sense so long as a person can keep everything in perspective and make the leap when he/she is ready...as you have.
As for your women and race examples the diffence there is one cannot choose their race or gender. Now I'm sure this will get us way off the rails, but until someone can definitively prove the existence of a homosexual gene, or can explain Anne Heche or bi-sexuality, many will remain unconvinced that one is not choosing to live thet lifestyle.
Still I'm curious why the gay community feels the need to where their sexual preferences on their sleeve? I mean, I can't remember the last time I saw a "Straight Pride" parade, can you? In a way I feel that by advertising their sexual preferences they bring some if this on themselves. I could care less what one does in their bedroom, why to gays thinks it's anyone business?
But to bring this back to the original point, given that MS seems to have a rather vocal internal lobbying group in the form of the "GLEAM" group, based on the email BusinessWeek published, and that this issue had apparently been on the table for a number of times in Washington in the past, I find it hard to believe that group was not already exercising its influence on Ballmer and thus find it lacking any credibility other than Scoble's own inflated ego that he was the catalyst in causing Ballmer to roll over (no pun intended)
We make a HUGE display of heterosexual behavior. Ever been to Las Vegas? Why are there dozens of marriage chapels?
And we get a little upset when homosexuals throw a parade or fly a flag? Give me a break.
So, taking that stand was certainly not a smart career move to make. Luckily I worked for a boss that separated his beliefs from his business decisions. But I didn't know that for sure before making that post.
I find this all truly fascinating. You will not have the discussion of a vote, will you? You simply cannot allow the public to voice its opinion on something YOU think we should all accept.
I can tolerate a number of things I dont approve of, but when one section of society deems they need "special protections" that the rest of us dont get, then yes, its an issue.
Gays in America are not being forced to sit in the back of the busses and never have been. Give me a break - they get a social pass on pretty much everything.
As for pride parades? Show me where heteros walk naked down any city street (I've lived all over the country - Ive seen it) and expect everyone else to just shut up.
Why are you so reluctant to allow the public to vote...? Can you answer that question?
As for Antioch, the church got involved AFTER the fact. And why is it a problem for a church to have an opinion on a political matter? There is actually no separation rule, although lefties for decades have been saying there is.
The Constitution states: Congress shall make no law intituting a state religion. But churches are more than welcome to have opinions; churches are not barred from this behavior.
Granted, since their opinion doesnt match up with yours, they are automatically wrong?
But still, answer my question about putting it to a public vote - if youre able.
Seen at a purely pragmatic level, if you run a business in a state that's hostile to minorities, even to minorities you think justly and properly deserve hostility, your business is gonna suffer. Deservedly.
as for gays being fired from a job, simply because they are gay? That is already illegal. but it is illegal under an umbrella of issues that are illegal to fire someone for, and have been for some time now.
MS is among the frontrunners in the business world for allowing same sex benefits...
what Robert supposedly "talked Steve Balmer into supporting" was SPECIAL rights, for an already protected class of people; the American Worker.
And we don't live in a Democracy. If we did we'd see the majority beat up the minority everytime.
Sounds like you'd be happy in Nazi Germany. There the majority had its say.
I'm more into protecting minorities from being crapped on by the majorities.
And are you calling me a Nazi? Wow... truly classy. And since the gays are NOT in fact "being crapped on" by the majority, this issue is less than interesting to me.
Guess you just cannot answer it truthfully; you'd prefer to have our laws legislated to us, than let the public have any say. Its the way of the lefties ... make laws that the rest of us spend decades trying to extract back out, since they are wholly unecessary.
And for being such an advocate for "tolerance" you have shown zip, zero none for anyone that doesnt agree with your leftie bent. Good luck with that.
If we have to give them special rights so they can come out of the closet, then thats just sad. Nobody makes that decision but THEM. Not us.
And before you try that childishness of "guess YOU dont know any gay people!!!" I have a great brother who is gay, as well as a few uncles .. various friends, and our family doctor for the first 8 years we lived here.
Go try painting someone less intelligent into a corner with your hand wringing... it aint working.
the naked gays who simulate sex on the streets in their Pride Parades are just an embarrassment to society as a whole. so, comparing a girl in a bikini on a beach to a gay male in assless chaps simulating sex with his partner of the moment is a bit of a stretch, even for you.
I didn't say you're a Nazi. Please be a careful reader. I said you would have LOVED the 1940s society in Germany. Why? Cause the majority kicked ass over the minority.
I answered the question very straightforward: we live in a representative democracy. Where law rules, not the mob. You want the mob to rule. I don't.
I've seen what that gets us. Our Republican mob is taking away rights left and right.
And, if you think Gays are treated equally well everywhere (even in California, where I have observed hate acts on playgrounds and murders on the street of San Francisco) you are drinking better Merlot than I am on this Fourth of July. Can I have some?
Since you lived in New Orleans (I'm still not sure about that) then you might talk to Ernie the Attorney and hear his stories of sex acts that take place during Mardi Graw. Heterosexual ones. Right out in front of everyone. And I'm not talking about the flashing of mamary glands that Maryam and I saw either.
Your type of work, blogging, is of value to Podtech. That is their core business, and thus they are willing to compensate you for it. Hopefully that helps clarify to you why MS or even us at Apple wouldn't pay you more then 100k a year.
And a Scoble can be created quite easily? Hmmm, it takes at least nine months and a Scoble has to be involved in the process and all the ones I know are already taken! :-)
But, seriously, if you think that a new one of me can be created quickly then you are smoking good dope over there in Steve Jobs' land. Can you bring some to my house in Half Moon Bay when I arrive?
You did miss that I got the best reviews at Google's Zeitgeist after only Malcolm Gladwell, didn't you? That I beat a Vice President of Microsoft's audience scores there who also spoke. That I beat the CEOs from AOL, Yahoo, and many other big name places. If it's so easy to communicate with audiences why didn't anyone else beat me?
Communication is NEVER as easy as it seems.
Hell, all of Bill Gates speech writers and coaches still haven't helped HIM become as good a communicator as Steve Jobs.
I suggest you learn about the actual country you live in: the US is a representative republic regardless of what you wish we were, which means we are NOT a representative democracy.
As for Republicans taking away your rights? LOL! Thats a good one. I always get a kick out of the predictable responses of people who hate that the President's first job is to protect the country.
But we'll show Bush come 08... cause I'm never voting for him again!
At times of "protection" is when we always hand over our rights. We're so predictable.
No one is saying gays don't get treated unfairly. But, often it's their own doing because they shout from the rooftops that they are gay and demand that they get special rights? Do you come into a room and announce you are straigth. Again, I could care less what your sexual proclivities are, it shouldn't be relevant to anything.
Your denseness never ceases to amaze me. I never said heterosexuals don't engage in PDA's. Gays do to, I have no problem with that. What I said was heterosexuals don't organize "Straight Pride" parades and demand that attention be given to them because f of their sexual choice like many gays do. I have met, worked with, and are friends with many gays that are in fact embarrassed by such parades and the demands to heard, given "special rights" and wanting to use the court system to create laws rather than enforce them. They feel that in the long run it is counterproductive. Amazingly by not choosing to shout their gayness from the rooftops saying "We're here and we're queer", they find that they get treated rather fairly.
As for your attack on MacBoy, again your defensiveness gets in the way of seeing his point. So you got good irrelevant scores at some random tech conference. Other than you, who the hell cares? No one but you likely remembered it a day later. How many of those scores resulted in more sales of MS software? Shipping Vista sooner? Taking share away from your competitors? Yea, again, I know numbers that translate into profits don't matter to you when it doesn't support your position, but his point was your actual job at MS seemed to be easily plug and playable, not your extracurricular activities.
And Lauri, not sure what you would be showing Bush in '08. He can't run again.
It is NOT irrelevant that Scoble has been recently rated so highly as a "communicator" -- against distinguished peers and competitors. And the gig was not discretely "extracurricular." It's pertinent to his point that Scoble can communicate.
Now, you may argue that Scoble would be little without his Microsoft leverage. Maybe (though he'd likely reply with more historical evidence, e.g., Ch.9). But how many employees had opportunity to leverage Microsoft? And where is the near equivalent...at the same ethical level (i.e., excluding mini)? Maybe Scoble is not just a compelling communicator (external to Microsoft) but also a persuasive politician (internal).
And you could press your point on ROI. Coming from the Direct Marketing world, I sympathize. We want everything to be denominatable, trackable. But some things can't be. Some values can't be so reduced. "Helping to change the face of Microsoft" is a fuzzy feat. (But it might be a real feat, nonetheless!)
But to suggest that Scoble's role (not mere "job") is "plug and playable".... Really? (Technically, Steve Jobs' job is too. How many more copies of hardware has Steve directly sold...than, say, Sculley?)
Now, granted, Scoble is no CEO, President, or Founder of Apple or Microsoft. But that's not the point. We are entering a new (tech) era, and Scoble has been one of its chief communicators...for a chief company and her customers.
And consider the "News." Were Rather, Jennings, Brokaw (or Cronkite) heads of their companies? Yet are their roles "plug and play"? Blogging may be different, but not so completely as you seem to suggest. Not for non-News companies...
Yesterday it was PR, today it is blogger as "bridge" between customer and corporation. What if 1,000,000 read him and 1% soften toward Microsoft while Microsoft actually becomes more "friendly"? Is there no value there?
Finally, are you quite sure that no one, nowhere, has reconsidered buying Microsoft (stock or product) in partial consideration of Robert's words? (If so, I'll happily provide a personal case study.)
As we learned from one of the founders of "Direct Marketing": "The pen is mightier than the sword." Words change the world. While I do not support Robert in his use of them for certain advocacies, I recognize his distinctive skills for what they are. Their value should not be understated.
Dmad, its a joke...of course Bush cant run again. But the Dems better start trotting out something new other than "I hate George W Bush" if they hope to ever get elected again.
Granted, for most conservatives GW is far too liberal - so, the Dems better pull one big rabbit out of their hats come 08.... but I dont think its likely.
Back in our early colonies, land ownership is what granted voting rights to an individual. This generally kept out those "pesky minorities, women and poor people" -- leaving the decision making to high-minded rich people. Never mind the fact that the majority of people were NOT rich and minorities were too busy getting beaten by their plantation "owners" to go house shopping (please DO sense my outrage and sarcasm all at once).
You support having multi-billion dollar mega-corporations push their weight around to pass laws. (and even put aside the fact that you pushed for the two richest white guys in the company to put their support behind this bill). By doing so, a single few rich guys who run the company can bowl over the opinions of the masses -- effectively putting us back before the 15th amendment, the 19th amendment, and the voting rights act.
You stated that you wanted churches to stay out of politics yet our whole political system was created out of the need for religious liberty. I also didn't see you complaining when Congress made a law that created the Department of Education and then prohibited the free exercise of religion there (which had been done since we landed on Plymouth Rock).
Be truthful, you aren't fighting for minorities, you are pushing an agenda that would not have passed if you really believed in the democratic process.
Furthermore, this country was not founded on minority rule; it was founded on majority rule. All individuals are conferred the same rights, but when those votes are tallied, the most votes win. If that means that the majority of people say that you can't wear purple shirts on Friday, then by golly, that's what needs to happen. This is why these decisions were supposed to be left to the states and local governments. Communities could make up rules that made sense to them, and some large group of nay-sayers from across the country couldn't force them to change just because they felt they should.
The point being Robert, you subverted the democratic system, pushed for two rich white guys to put their weight behind a law, then got out of the state so that you could revel in screwing the system once again. Let me guess, you voted for Kerry?
> Hawaii, and California. Even the ones who wear
> clothes only cover a few square inches of their
> bodies.
> Comment by Robert Scoble — July 4, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
And did you stop to ask everyone if they were all heterosexual/homosexual? How could you tell? Oh, they were holding hands with a woman? I have gay friends that do that all the time. The difference is, Robert, I have some gay friends. I don't approve of the lifestyle and they know it. They don't agree with my beliefs, and I know it. The difference is that we have common sense and respect for one another's differences. They have enough sense to say that it's wrong for people to parade down a street naked just as much as anyone else.
Another tactic of the drones that schools like Berkley pump out is that they immediately tell people they are Nazis or compare them to Nazis simply because they don't let the minority viewpoints overrun majority views. How about holding up a real argument instead of resorting to ad hominem? Once you actually come back with facts and agree to stay on point, then we can discuss this intelligently. Until then, you are just another drone following the brainwashing you were given in the socialist school system we can state-run universities.
My perception is that most 'softies might not know you because most folks live in silos. The annual tech fair is an eye opener for a lot of people who don't have any idea what the rest of the company is doing. Is it any surprise that "Scoble" isn't a buzzword internally? If I would change one thing about Microsoft culture it would be this. Or maybe the empire-building that I believe eventually leads to the silo lifestyle.
IE 7 and Vista both have (shoddy) RSS client support. Not to mention the Live initiative. It's not that everyone at Microsoft is clueless, but rather that unless something has a solid business model it just ain't gonna happen. People outside of Microsoft didn't see the HUGE internal furvor from the folks with their boots on the ground (Individual Contributors) about OSS as everyone tried to get senior management to realize that Linux, Firefox, et al. were not only viable, but possibly a threat to some of the company's bottom line. I realize this runs counter to the silo statement above, but there are certainly some if not many engineers in the company who are real geeks, seeking out all the new cool things. Heck, RaymondC's sig used to be "just another Linux hacker". For better ___ support, the mantra is always "wait for the next service pack". Probably applies in this case.
Windows release cycles seem to have changed. The old model is 1) release the RTM version and 2) everyone finally runs it once you release SP1. The new model is to add 3) there's some "refresh" release like XP SP2 or WS03 R2 that is sort of a mini-RTM for a new OS. That seems to be the mechanism to add all those features that customers really wanted but just didn't ship at RTM. I wasn't an exec. I don't know what happens most days in the war meetings. I'm just a nobody. That's only what I observed from the trenches. I suppose it's better than the wait for NT4 SP4 was.
Remaking Microsoft into two camps, the younger of which is intended to kill the elder, sounds too much like an Apple nightmare of yore. I don't think you're Mini, but maybe you're related to Steve Jobs. As an engineer, that sounds dreadful. I leave it to anyone interested to Google up that history lesson. *shudder*
I completely agree about the need for a naming dictator. Forget about the personas. I've never met Abby or Ichiro. I'm more worried about my mom. I *love* my mom. The whole Messenger confusion is only one example of the needless support headaches I have with her. Maybe in some imaginary world those things bother Abby or Ichiro. I have no idea. I only know that mom doesn't like it.
I also agree that people hate Microsoft because it is now Goliath. I still remember when it was David instead. David could fight kinda dirty 'cause he was the underdog. Goliath needs to just stand there and take the hurt. Microsoft as David has gone the way of the Blibbet. Were I a bit more superstitious I'd cry out "resurrect the Blibbet", but I'm not. Goliath isn't cool. I don't know how to change that.
As far as roles go in Windows . . . well . . . that's a deep problem. Look to the NT object manager and ask how it should be changed to "understand" roles. Start there at the core and build out. I agree that the development community as a whole (and Microsoft especially) needs to start thinking in terms of roles. In practical terms, things are a little better in Unix-land. In design terms . . . um . . . I don't want to start a flame war, so I'll lay off. Suffice it to say that there are some really smart people in the Windows division who are starting to think about roles instead of just entities and their permissions (a big part of the problem is rooted in the security model). Expect a big change in the way stuff works. In 10-15 years. :-( I hope that I didn't break my NDA somehow with these statements.
On the inability to see small things: Absolutely any new initiative needs a business model. How much income can that new thing make? How much will the company lose if it doesn't implement that? The little things usually don't have any definable $$$ impact. I agree that there ought to be more flexibility to explore new income sources (meaning cool new tech), but unless you're in research that's probably not going to happen at Microsoft. Yes, there needs to be change. Taking small risks can pay off in the large. Taking large risks that the company keeps dumping money into might do that, too, but for my money I'd rahter have thousands of small longshot bets than only a handful of allegedly-not-longshots that seem to eventually pan out to be money pits.
Will Mac and Windows become one? Was that supposed to be a real question or a troll? Do that DaveC interview you wanted to do. Then go talk with some devs on Mach. I just don't see that happening. Ever. Apple currently (and quite happily) runs on a Unix(-like?) kernel. Windows is NT, which at heart is very VMS-like. Unix and VMS are oil and water (or vice versa). Dual booting might become more common. Once Bootcamp RTMs I'm going to go buy a Mac. There have been too many problems reported from early adopters for me to want to trust Bootcamp yet, though.
On the Google love (or not?): Google treats its engineers amazingly well. I have no idea about the non-engineers. It's biggest draw as an employer is exactly that. Work on cool stuff with very little management or process overhead, ship frequently, live/breathe tech but eat tasty healthy free food, be surrounded by some of the smartest people in the industry, and spend one day a week working on something else - whatever else, but be productive. Tell any engineer "I'm going to take away all of the little problems in your day to day life and let you just focus on solving problems". Hired. Period. That's Google. What they actually produce doesn't really excite me and I'll probably never work there, but I can see the reason they drain brains away from the likes of Microsoft.
In regard to Richard's question about Longhorn and Vista: Gotta ship the bits. Sometimes that means cutting most or all of the 3 main pillars you were building the product around. Oh, well. Anything good will eventually wander back into the source tree and ship in a later version. Maybe one day we'll finally see all of the Cairo features on a desktop. Who knows?
And about working at Microsoft: I went to Microsoft straight out of college. I spent ~7 years there working at a company that I would consider to be one of the best "finishing schools" for software engineers. On the one hand, there are smart people there working on almost anything you're interested in doing in software. On the other, it's like New York, New York - it can be rough; if you can make it there you can make it anywhere. I recommend it highly. I interviewed with several companies who told me that they prefer candidates with that kind of background.
Thanks for hearing/reading me out. I apologize for the length of the comment and also for my lack of any spelling or grammar checking. Hope it's not too offensive to the dictionary-huggers out there.
- Drew
As for new company to compete with the old? I guess that's what we're getting with Google anyway. Too bad that Gates didn't just spin off an Internet division to compete with the old fogeys anyway back in the late 1990s. If he had maybe Google wouldn't have existed. But, that's the innovator's dilemma, isn't it?
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