DISQUS

Larry Myers · 3 years ago

Scoble,

If Microsoft wants to get better entrenched into the blogger / podcaster world, why don't they do something like buy wordpress?

I realize wordpress is not ASP.NET, and not SQL Server .. but it would give them a good sized user base to work with, some footing to go head to head with Google's Blogger service.

Yeah, I realize MSN Spaces exists, but face it, MSN Spaces is not cool and just screams: "Like MySpace, but corporate."

Andrew Davey · 3 years ago

I created a plug-in for Windows Media Player a couple of weeks back.

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/andrewdavey/entry/up...

It reads IE7's common feed list. So I can subscribe to podcasts from IE and the play them in WMP :)

Oh and it's all written in .NET (not bad since WMP is still god-awful COM...)

Charlie Key · 3 years ago

If WMP had podcast integration I would easily make it my default media player. I have been playing around with it with XP for the last week and really think that it is a great player but I love having podcasts sitting right there waiting for me.

Tim · 3 years ago

There's a fine line.. release code too quickly and it's full of bugs, and you get derided; release it too slowly and the folks for whom "latest greatest feature that all of the kewl kids are talking about" is important will give you negative buzz.

If they _do_ add podcast support, it should add support for the CHAP and CTOC frames, so you can ship out a segmented podcast that we can jump around in.

Andrew Davey · 3 years ago

Also, where is the Windows Media Player team blog?
Surely people should be able to have a conversation with the team, rather than having to bother Scoble with our complaints!

Someone's ass needs kicking that's for sure!

Herme Garcia · 3 years ago

There is a superb missing feature nobody get notice.

In WMP11 you can't drag and drop songs on top of other songs in the library to set the same grouped Tag info.

That is a really quick way to sort the library in WMP10, but now is missing in WMP11 .. Why?

They forgot?

Adrian · 3 years ago

Yes, Microsoft are planing Xbox live intergration in Vista. They are calling it LiveAnywhere, and was demoed by Mr Gates himself at E3.

More info from the guys at Engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/10/microsoft-bl...

Lee Wilkins · 3 years ago

Robert

I am suprised at the lack of podcasting features in WMP11.

Sean Alexander put me in touch with the Project Manager of WMP. Forget his name now. Nope, I remember, See-Mong Tang

We had a lengthy conference call and I am more than sure he went away "buzzing"...

But obviously not.

Its a real shame. But I am sure not deliberately overlooked.

Sriram Krishnan · 3 years ago

Scoble - are you sure subscribing to a RSS feed in IE with enclosures automatically makes a 'podcast' playlist in WMP11? I remember one of the IE RSS guys demoing this a few months back.

I could be mistaken though :)

John C. Welch · 3 years ago

For WiMP 11 to support podcasting, it would have to support non-WM formats, and even advertise this support as a primary feature, without trying to force you to use WM. Apple certainly encourages you to use AAC, (which is an open format, unlike WM), but you only need it if you want the links and the pictures in the podcasts. if you don't, MP3 works perfectly fine and iTunes never says boo about it.

I don't think the WM team is capable of being that sanguine about open formats having any kind of primacy whatsoever in WiMP

Ahmer · 3 years ago

@ Larry Myers


i don't think that you can "buy Wordpress". Wordpress is an open-source application. It's not a company, a blog host, or a product. You can but Wordpress.com but not the Wordpress application. This is because there is no price tag on wordpress.

carolus Holman · 3 years ago

Support for podcasts like what? I mean I was down loading MP3 shows dotnet rocks before the term podcast was coined. I hate my ipod. I will give it to anyone who emails me a good reason why they deserve it. You pay for shipping. I also don't get why putting links in a podcast is important. I have a ten gig ipod I haven't used in months. Gimme a good reason and its yours;

Dave Winer · 3 years ago

Scoble, they didn't listen to me, I was trying to explain podcasting to MSN in the summer of 2004. They could have beaten Apple to market by a lot, at least they were smart enough to talk to me (Apple couldn't be bothered) but they weren't smart enough to believe.

Dave Winer · 3 years ago

But I'll give them this much credit, at least they listened when I said I didn't want DMOZ editors adding their two cents on my high-ranked websites. Let Ben Hammersley get his page rank the honest way.

MthdDirector · 3 years ago

I saw the Xbox Live integration w/ Vista demo at one of the breakout sessions after the E3 press conference. I think you should do a Ch9 interview with those guys. Most of the same Xbox 360 dashboard functionality was right there on the Vista desktop. Chris Early did a mobile demo that was also very cool.

But if MS can merge the gaming spaces of console, Vista and mobile platforms, why can't they do it for other media services? A Windows MCE client on a phone that serves up podcasts, or music from MTV's Urge music service.

Unifying the user experience across platforms and creating continuity and linearity from device to device is the new benchmark.

John Hartman · 3 years ago

No podcasting, no Vista til 07' Intel inside Macs and dual core virtualization coming soon. Steve Jobs is smiling all the way to the bank.

It would be so easy for Microsoft to become dominant in this area and yet you shoot yourself in the foot. Micorsoftians LISTEN to Robert he gets it!

Watch Second Life and next generation UI...

OPML, RSS and the evolution of data consumption...

OSS and the giant developer communities of today and tomorrow..

How many people at Microsoft are on the Mono team?

adapt overcome evolve!

jean · 3 years ago

I am not anti-microsoft but this is just the begning of problems from WM11.

what can be said is Microsoft dressess applications very well and upgrades the numbers on the versions


www.irin.co.uk

Christopher Coulter · 3 years ago

Man, just a beta and it can (possibly) firm up, but what a letdown this WMP 11, the smallish VLC or BSPlayer still bests it in overall video/audio quality. And what outside of the doomed MTV Urgeisms does it have going for it? Album art and Playsforsureisms? Oh please. And this beta is BSOD beta clunky.

The new UI which is supposed to be 'simple' I find an grade-school kiddie chore. iTunes replacement? Umm not even close. Well, it's a massive improvement over WMP 10, that much I can say. Still amazing that they left out podcasting and tag editing, I mean, the development cycle that stuck in the past that they can't factor in something that's been a minor (now becoming major) trend for nearly 2+ years?

Lesson to be learnt? Even being in millions of computers, MTV should have bedded with Apple. They will realize their Microsoft mistake. Already one victim:: MSN Music, and soon to be two. MTV? You mean they do music?

iRiver clix is a nice unit tho. But ignoring the iPod market and going too URGEy with heavy DRM infestation, will be the death of them. Just more Microsoft software you can safely ignore, only really highlights the benefits of free bundling.

Molly C · 3 years ago

"podcasting" is the most idiotic name for this technology that anyone ever devised. There was a recent study showing that over 80% of "podcasts" are listened to on the computers on which they were downloaded or are thrown away. Very few users transfer them to mp3 players of any kind, let alone iPods in particular. Tying this mechanism to a particular brand of mp3 player is just plain stupid, and reminds me of Netscape renaming their scripting language to JavaScript just to get on the Java bandwaggon, when their scripting language had (and has) nothing to do with Java whatsoever.

I've had to explain what "podcasting" was to friends who were confused by the name, as they thought that an iPod was *required* to make use of it. They were surprised to learn that not only was an iPod not required, but no portable audio player of any kind was required. If anything is "slowing down the adoption of podcasts", it's the inappropriate "podcast" name itself. I think something like "blogcast" would be much better, as it's clear what it is, and isn't tied to a particular brand of mp3 player.

BTW, iTunes is a good "podcast" subscriber for audio feeds, but for video feeds it is horrible. :(

As for WMP11, I've not tried it, but I imagine that the Vista version will use Vista's built-in RSS API to get "podcast" feeds.

Georg Holzer · 3 years ago

I was quite disappointed as well not to see an RSS-integration. I'm pretty sure it will follow in the final.

On the other hand: It does support plug-ins, does it? Can you not only do a plug-in for subscribing to podcasts but other features as well? Like: syncing the iPod with WMP oder marking shows that you already listened to?

PLEASE, can anyone answer this? Thanks and greetings from Austria
Georg

Andrew Davey · 3 years ago

Georg: see comment #2 above :)

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/andrewdavey/entry/up...

I'm thinking about ways to make syncing podcasts to a device using WMP sync playlists. If people have ideas for what they would like the plug-in to do please leave comment on my blog. Thanks.

Goebbels · 3 years ago

"Hey, my fellow Microsofties. Want to see the stock go up?"

Why do you keep pretending that you have the answers? That you aren't just throwing out simple platitudes? That anyone listens to you within Exec circles?

Nobody buys it.

Goebbels · 3 years ago

Ah.... and your buddy Dave Winer: "...at least they were smart enough to talk to me (Apple couldn’t be bothered) but they weren’t smart enough to believe. "

Yeah, not talking to YOU really hurt Apple ... and podcasting.

Kevin Behringer · 3 years ago

Scoble:

Exactly!

When I opened the WMP 11, one of the first things I did was search the help for how to set up for podcasts. Nothing.

That shocked me. It seems if Microsoft is creating something to compete with iTunes, they would at least create something that could do everything that iTunes does...then add to it.

I have to say, it's a bit like the new IE. It's like Microsoft is trying to copy Firefox instead of beating it.

Why not jump over what people are used to and offer them something they never thought of?

Stonehouse · 3 years ago

I was foolish enough to just ASSUME podcasts would be in there. I swear I spent 10 minute looking for something that wasn't there. Sad.

Goebbels · 3 years ago

"iRiver clix is a nice unit tho"

Chris, too bad ReignCom is getting out of the business though... for Microsoft that is. They get a couple of betas out the door and throw the Clix in all the marketing... and by the time, the products go live the Clix and iRiver are no longer viable products/entities. That's brilliant planning: somehow Scoble's words can get Microsoft to speed development but they can't get someone in the marketing department to check on the financial health of a major advertising partner.

Robert Scoble · 3 years ago

Goebbels: maybe no one should really listen to me. Apple, though, had podcasting support a year ago.

Apple's stock has gone up since then. What has Microsoft's done?

Goebbels · 3 years ago

"Apple, though, had podcasting support a year ago."

So what? Do you think they needed you to figure that out? And more importantly: I was commenting on the comment: "Cut the time from 30 months or longer to 12." My point being: how does saying that make it possible. Are you actually saying something or jsut making something up. Why not just say: "In the next week, invent something that everyone needs." Such a statement is just as helpful and just as realistic.

Do you think you need to tell me what MSFT, which you have adamently claimed you are happy with for 3 years, is doing? Ha, ha, ha... Like I said, maybe you could tell someone in your marketing department that ReignCom is pulling out of the mp3 player market, if not withering up entirely.... Rather than telling me how your company is doing poorly... something we are all aware of.

Christopher Coulter · 3 years ago

"...and by the time, the products go live the Clix and iRiver are no longer viable products/entities."

Greaaaatt point. I know, ain't that just too rich? Classic Microsoft. :)

Molly C · 3 years ago

>I have to say, it’s a bit like the new IE. It’s like
> Microsoft is trying to copy Firefox instead of
> beating it.

LOL
Microsoft let IE stagnate so much that they just have to get the new version out the door, then worry about "beating" Firefox. As it is, Firefox blows IE7 away in extensions support, but besides that IE7 is as good as or better than Firefox (except for Microsoft's idiotic resistance to providing an integrated download manager!!). I'd say that IE7 has better tab support, better RSS/Favorites/History functionality, and combining the Back/Forward navigation stack into one dropdown button is pretty cool.

The Firefox team is running out of ideas anyway. Their big "feature" for Firefox 2.0 was to be using a SQL database file to store bookmarks. Hello?? Who cares! And that feature got cut/delayed. Firefox needs to fix their memory management problems, and their security problems. Seems like every new release of Firefox fixes more than 10 holes. I don't see how it's any more secure than IE, except that IE is targetted more.


> Why not jump over what people are used to and offer
> them something they never thought of?

Well, IE was the first browser to be available as a component to be used by other apps, and Microsoft invented Ajax.

John C. Welch · 3 years ago

Better tab support? With that inane moving "new tab control"? Oh yeah, that's fantastic.."where do i click for a new tab? Well, it depends"

IE being an OS - Level component is a major reason for it being such a great way to pooch the OS. That's probably not a fantastic thing to brag about Molly. Microsoft did indeed invent Ajax, and then did nothing with it, because all they care about (still), with one exception, is trying to force you to use Windows, and punishing you when you don't. I bet Ballmer prays for that to happen every night.

Microsoft had USB support years before the iMac, but the USB market was nothing until the iMac. Inventing something, then not doing anything with it is useless.

Goebbels · 3 years ago

Blah, blah, blah....

"Hey presto."

Ha, ha, ha!!!!!

RL · 3 years ago

Robert, you are right to point out the lack of podcasting support, although I never missed it. I wish I could say that it was a feature I wanted, but unfortunately I still have some dinosaur habits and could not imagine spending the time to listen to all the possible podcasts I might subscribe to. Though its this dinosaur thinking that must be overcome at MS to make the company succeed. I will say this about WM11. It's a little bit more than just a nice gloss, its ability to create playlists are leaps and bounds above the old WM10. It's even more user friendly and I love the navigation menus. I have Real (ADVERTISING) Player, and I-Tunes and I can say I still prefer WMP. WM11 is still an improvement over WM10 and I think, Robert, you have thrown a dual gauntlet at the development team. One is add RSS support to WMP11 and do it quick enough for the final release. Let's see if the team picks up the gauntlet and wins your challenge.

Goebbels · 3 years ago

Of course, it's not a tech issue, and of course, it won't be added. Two reasons... pointed to by James and Molly.

#1 - podcasts are predominantly mp3 or aac and Microsoft will not support that.

#2 - Sorry, Molly, but the name issue was decided long ago... People accept PodCast and will not accept any of these silly alternates as an alternate name... Microsoft will never accept the name PodCast so they will not support it.

John C. Welch · 3 years ago

Yep...if Microsoft comes up with a name, it will be:

Windows Media Player, with Automatic Downloads of Audio and Video file that you can transfer to a plays for sure device and listen to at your leisure!

Apple has:

iTunes, now with Podcasting.

and they wonder why Apple's doing so well.

RL · 3 years ago

Last time I checked, WMP handles Mp3's just fine and has given that option for ripping cd's since WMP10. As far as AAC, that's an Apple proprietary format. As far as those features are concerned its a moot point. I fall back to a basic premise that I follow on formats and that is "How much does it cost to get the software to create it?" Once again, the last time I checked Windows Media Encoder is free while Quicktime pro is $39.95. Now one might argue that MS is playing the Netscape vs. IE fight by offering the software free of charge, which is a legitimate arguement, but to downplay the lack of supporting competitors' proprietary formats is a non-starter. One could say that Windows Media Encoder should support mpeg (an industry standard)encoding formats like media player supports mp3, that might be a discussion to have. Although I will say what's good for the goose is also good for the gander. If you hold MS to these high ideals then hold every single other company that competes with them to the same standard. It's only fair.

John C. Welch · 3 years ago

RL, try again. AAC is the audio component of MPEG 4, and as such is an open standard. Apple applies its proprietary DRM to the AAC files on the iTMS, but AAC is not "Apple's" audio format.

So, yeah, again AAC, Open Standard, not proprietary.

Cameron Reilly · 3 years ago

yeah Robert I'm confused by this lack of podcasting as well. I met with Sean Alexander, Keith Ballinger and some of the guys from the WMP team back in Feb 2005 before I hooked up with you and Buzz at Demo. That was a full 4 months before iTunes had podcast support. I was pretty convinced then that WMP would have podcasting support before long. 15 months later - nada. Quite disappointing. I agree with Todd - this is going to slow down podcast adoption. Having it in iTunes is great, but 50 million iPod owners is nothing compared to Microsoft's reach.

Georg · 3 years ago

A question to ROBERT: Is there any chance that the final product will ship with podcast-support?

Dennis Moynihan · 3 years ago

What is driving me nuts about WMP11 isn't just the lack of native podcast support, but some very basic design problems that make it almost unusable for working with podcasts. I use Juice as an aggregator, and it will automatically build WMP playlists. Great. But, in WMP11 (and I think this differs from 10), when you view an item in a playlist, you can't delete the item (with a right click context menu or delete key). That means it's almost impossible to use playlists to manage podcasts, since cleaning up "old" podcasts is essential. You have to find the item in the library view to delete it, and that's nuts because the ID3 tags for podcasts can be very inconsistent (meaning that "audio12432.mp3" might have an album, might be different than the last episode, etc.

This highlights a lot of VERY inconsistent design cues in WMP (10 and unfortunately carried over to 11). For example, in the now playing window, you can right click to "find in library". But, you can't for the same item when viewing it in a playlist. And dumb things like having to set a switch to decide if the "delete" key removes the file, or just the item from the library (why not have a better design, like Azureus' delete menu option). Too many secret buttons on the screen, rather than just clear, functional design (the list pane arrow, for example). A good app should never be a treasure hunt to use.

Using WMP seems very tedious. I was really hoping for a functional redesign with the 11 beta, and it almost seems like it's nothing but a new skin (excluding Urge, which I won't be using anyway).

Sigh.

Robert · 3 years ago

A simple person comments: Regardless of all the discussion, I am a podcast junkie, and will stick with ITUNES until WMP makes it simple to subscribe, update and delete podcasts. Make it simple MS!

it · 3 years ago

this is sure a great story i have learned so much .
i will apply to my site http://www.sure23.com/
will also upgrade to media player 11

Spatial Mongrel · 3 years ago

Agree completely with the post by you, Robert, and thanks for it. I, like many others, spend 15 minutes searching through the help file to figure out how to get podcasting working. I couldn't believe Microsoft would actually leave it out!

Post 7 - I completely agree - this drag-and-drop feature is ESSENTIAL and is a huge hole. Silly to remove it.

Post 46 - I also use Juice and am frustrated by the same playlist problem. Why on earth can't I jump to the library from a playlist? Urge? Bah.

Too bad we need to vent about WMP11 here. Hope members of the development team look at your site!

Randall Lind · 3 years ago

What sucks is the fact WMP 11 replaces most of my albums folder.jpg files with blank gray cd jpg's ok nothing at all.
The sad fact is on my mp3 drive all looks normal. Then I open so see folder.jpg is now replace with {9999} album art and a folder.jpg which is all hidden.
I could careless about Podcast etc I don't see why a already bloated player needs to become even more bloated. We got a lot of podcast software already Todd complains about bandwith all the time but he is will not be happy til podcasting is in every player I say screw it. MS can't release vista podcasting option will delay it another 5 years!!

MS should not allow people to download beta only RC's it really screws up crap.

Scott Brison · 3 years ago

Very entertaining issue. I haven't heard of this one. It will be necessary to visit you on a thicket!

Nigeria · 3 years ago

I have been using the Windows Media Player 11 and while it lacks some great functionality it is a great product. I also use it in creating media files for my website http://www.360Nigeria.com

Scott Brison · 3 years ago

I've got the Windows Media Player 11 too, and its very good and comfortable programm! I'm glad that I've got one! :)

Cooper Jones · 3 years ago

I use Juice as an aggregator, and it will automatically build WMP playlists. Great. But, in WMP11, when you view an item in a playlist, you can’t delete the item. That means it’s almost impossible to use playlists to manage podcasts, since cleaning up old podcasts is essential.

Ken Dryden - environmental pro · 3 years ago

WMP handles Mp3’s just fine and has given that option for ripping cd’s since WMP10. As far as AAC, that’s an Apple proprietary format. As far as those features are concerned its a moot point. I fall back to a basic premise that I follow on formats and that is “How much does it cost to get the software to create it?” Once again, the last time I checked Windows Media Encoder is free while Quicktime pro is $39.95.

Sabina · 3 years ago

I just downloaded WMP 11 and cannot figure out where I can find the total number of music files I have in the LIBRARY. Old WMP 10 always gave you the number on the bottom left hand side of the screen. HELP!!

Stephen E · 2 years ago

I downloaded ver 11 of media player expecting to be able to find the podcasting setup....
So now it's back to iTunes.

David Wise · 2 years ago

Podcasting growth slower than expected:

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/03/23/t...

I wonder if this might have something to do with wmp11's rather shocking continued refusal to play nice with podcasts. I consider myself an advanced user, yet I'm sick to death of the silly hoops I need to jump through just to get podcasts properly and automatically linking from wmp11 to my samsung z5. I download using juice, run a shell script command to properly change the genre to a wmp11 readable format, then set up autoplaylists, because juice and wmp11 don't always play nice with updating the regular playlists. All in all, it's an irritating process to what, in itunes, is practically a 1-click solution. It's enough to make me regret buying a wmp-based media player. I'll be picking up an ipod for sure for my girlfriend, unless someone over there gets their heads out of their collective asses.

John Maas · 1 year ago

Podcasts do rock out. I'm not fully antiquated as much as I'd like to be, but I see myself becoming addicted! http://www.capatrex.org

Andy Winters · 1 year ago

@ Molly C - I'm with ya on the subscription! The video portion needs a major overhaul!!!

Harold · 10 months ago

Very informative article - I'm sure there's even more good stuff to come.

About your design, what is the theme is being used at the moment? I'd love to know the name of it.