Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Why you should get AppleTV

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

monkeyleader — Sun, 14 Jan 2007 05:50:45 -0000

I keep hearing most of the comments - it does not matter that it does not support 1080p as the content isnt there. I would add a VERY important word to the end of this "yet". I bought my 720p/1080i Sanyo Z4 projector only 12 months ago and at the time I was thinking - 1080p content is a long way off. Well as we know a year in tech terms is nothing and now I'm wishing I had a 1080p capable projector. I still believe not going for 1080p support is a big mistake - not enough to hit too many sales but for future proofing (and by that I mean 12 months) its a mistake. Will I get one ? Nah, I have the media center PC hooked up to the PJ and do all my video podcasts on thay. Now my biggest question (slightly un-related) is how I do video podcasts on the move. I dont yet own a video ipod and I think that would be the simplist, but perhpas the latest generation of Archos (Ive always been an archos man) is the way to go.

Nige

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Jeremy Toeman — Sun, 14 Jan 2007 03:29:24 -0000

Robert, I enjoy your blog a lot, but when you delve into this kind of a territory, I think you are a little out of your normal turf.

First, most HDTV experts (as in, those who work in the industry) cannot easily peg the difference between 720p and 1080i visually. It's very hard for most people with most content.

Second, most HD cable/satellite boxes do a great job with their upscalers (better than most TVs do in fact), making the difference even less noticable.

Third, there is almost no announced broadcast content for 1080p at present, making the current push to 1080p more a marketing issue than a content/quality issue. In fact, DirecTV's CTO announced during their press conference at CES that they were explicitly not support the format at present. http://www.livedigitally.co...

Bottom line is the majority of consumers should expect to enjoy their 720p and 1080i content (the most important aspect here, by the way, is the native resolution capability of your display, and nothing else) for a long time. It is, in fact, possible to see 1080p get skipped as a "mainstream" format as companies such as Hitachi are working on resolutions with over 4000 lines already!

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Maxim — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 20:16:02 -0000

1080p, yeah... once upon a time it'll be history already...

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Joe — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 10:37:47 -0000

Personally, I greatly prefer football on NBC, CBS and NFL Network (all 1080i) to Fox and ABC/ESPN (720p). Despite ABC/ESPN's marketing verbiage, Fox and ABC/ESPN use 720p because the broadcast costs for 720p are less than for 1080i. And for several years, Fox only broadcast it's digital signals in 480p.

Many 1280x720 (and 1024x768) max tv sets use an interpolation method known as 'bob' that converts a 1080i60 image into a 540p60 image before upconverting that to 720p60, instead of properly reconstructing a 1080p30 image and then doubling and downconverting that to 720p60. Film-based sources are what really suffer with this conversion method, as a 1080i film source can be converted to 1080p by reversing 3:2 pulldown.

Of course, all of this is academic when discussing Apple TV, which is not capable of 720p60 anyway, but only a max of 720p24, which removes any motion/temporal advantage 720p60 has over 1080i60.

Oh, and 1080p24 is part of the ATSC standard; however, no one is broadcasting it, nor have I heard any plans for anyone to use it.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Michael.NET — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:14:35 -0000

The nicest thing about 1080i is that it can be deinterlaced into true 1080p. However, most screen sizes at most viewing distances don't make for a "spectacular" jump in quality. Certainly not enough for the price. 1080p is /technically/ better, and will eventually be the standard, but I give it another 3-5 years, until then 720p is more then good enough.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Nik Cubrilovic — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 02:00:24 -0000

You can see the difference between 1080i and 1080p when you are watching a fast-moving film or playing video games, since p is basically double the refresh-rate of i

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Richard Brownell — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:38:33 -0000

Robert: 720p being more desirable than 1080i is one of the major reasons people are frustrated with the PlayStation 3. I'm [finally] an HDTV owner. I have a fantastic Vizio that I settled on after months of research, but it only does up to 1080i (very limited budget).

Now, when I put a Blu-Ray movie into the PS3, which I normally keep set on 720p for my games, it chokes on it, sputters a bit, and then downgrades the signal to 480p. It's got no scaler. Obviously, I'll take 1080i over 480p, but it's quite annoying to have to play with the display settings. And it's something literally hundreds of thousands of PS3 owners are coping with right now because most HDTVs out there can't do 1080p and most informed consumers (of which many PS3 early adopters are) know that 720p is preferable to 1080i.

I'm sure you don't need any more justification for 360 over PS3, but there you go ;)

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Michael Gannotti — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:10:27 -0000

I definately think that this device has the potential to do very well in the market and I think it will be a much more impactful one than the iPhone.Its the perfect extension of their iPod metaphor, will leverage that strucure and is facing an underdeveloped market at the time when technology has finally come together for such devices. I think technically its an inferior setup when compared to an Xbox 360 married to a PC (never mind one coupled with a Media Center)but that wont matter in the present environment. Apple has a much better marketing group and Microsoft can't get its story together, at least for now. So I think they will see deep penetration in the market with this if they execute well against it which I anticipate they will.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

JD — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:18:41 -0000

I don't watch video podcasts, so for me it's a non-issue. Music and videos.....I prefer to use WMP vs iTunes just due to the silo approach (ala AOL) mentioned above. I have much more freedom by NOT using iTunes and its walled off world. For me, using a media center extender (or XBOX 360) works a lot better for me.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Goebbels — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:59:15 -0000

Oops, don't want to cause confusion.

I mean I prefer ABC's and ESPN's use of 720p. 1080i (CBS and NBC) definitely looks crappier. (And it's CBS who doesn't broadcast all games in HD at all.)

"Certainly explains why Discovery Channel looks so stunning."

How does the fact that you aren't sure about it and CAN'T actually tell the difference explain its "stunning"? You make me laugh. I don't have an HDTV, but I have watched plenty of sports and blurring, strobing, and delacing can be apparent in 10801. I would imagine any highspeed or slow motion Discovery content would be equally affected... if you could actually tell. Ha, ha, ha.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Goebbels — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:54:24 -0000

And the only football game I've seen in 1080 (last year's Super Bowl... my friends thought they were showing off their new TV -- I, a football nut, was pissed!) looked like shit in comparison to what is on CBS (when they are HD) and ESPN.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Robert Scoble — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:50:44 -0000

Goebbels: I was wrong. Thanks. But I'm pretty sure I've seen some football games in 1080. Now I'm wondering.

Certainly explains why Discovery Channel looks so stunning.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

MRKisThatKid — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:43:58 -0000

I've never understood why they even decided to even create a 1080i standard. Only CRT's can display an interlaced signal, all fixed pixel devices have to de-intelace it, basically meaning convert the interlaced signal to a progressive one. It both degrades the picture even further and is processor intensive.

Though I do agree that a max res of 720p is pretty weak.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Goebbels — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:41:07 -0000

I love how Scoble claims to be such an HD expert and connoisser, but he's WRONG the majority of the time.

"ESPNHD along with sister network ABCHD use the 720p HD line standard because the ABC executives proposed a progressive 'p' signal resolves fluid and high speed motion in sports better, particurally during slow motion replays."

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

DAG — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:27:00 -0000

"from Apple Tv specs on apple.com
TV compatibility
* Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz"
That doesn't imply the unit will handle 1080i content, just that it will work with that kind of TV

This is what formats it supports
Video formats supported:
H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps
LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps
Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps
Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

Otherwise, 1080 display is an up-converted image. Most good HDTVs have this feature built in. The best you will get is 24FPS 720P.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Stanley — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:22:44 -0000

Uggh. Not more blogosphere echo chamber stuff where "A list" bloggers get off talking back and forth with each other...

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

danielmcvicar — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 16:04:47 -0000

its the iTunes feed into your TV that will make the difference. I will make sure and reformat all my projects on iTunes for AppleTV. Windows Media Center could work remotely, but this will make it easy and popular, just like the iPod did with MP3s.

And now I can lay back with some popcorn and enjoy some Scoble Shows.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Angel — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:52:36 -0000

How big of a difference do you see when watching football (720p vs. 1080i), Robert? Please realize that ESPN HD is in 720p, unlike what you've stated before. Just like the majority of content on Xbox Live, unlike what you've stated before. I just find it hard to believe that in a fast-moving sport like football, you actually think an interlaced picture (1080i) looks better than progressive (720p).

It's amazing that the most experts and sports networks like ESPN, recognize that progressive is better for fast-moving action, but you somehow believe that 1080i looks better. Brilliant.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

colin — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:33:28 -0000

Pah - it's an xbox 360 without the um games and the 1080p

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Hash — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:59:11 -0000

@#9 "... following a cheetah chasing down a zebra and eating it."

Cough ... Cheetahs normally chase Antelopes. Hence the need for speed. Zebras are too big for 'em. Lions chase Zebras.

Robert has been watching Discovery but not paying attention. :-p

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Herm — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:57:01 -0000

Broadcasts in 1080i !!

I don't what it is, but I "wont" it.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Aaron — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:36:17 -0000

Someone pointed that out in the other thread. Though this is in large part an argument of theory as most items published on either platform right now is and will be 720.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Mujibur — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:33:48 -0000

Oh and BTW Scoble, there will not be broadcast 1080p for many, many years as it's not part of the ATSC standard. You may be able to download 1080p shows but even then, we'll need way better bandwidth than we have today.

I thought you'd know something of ATSC.

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Andrew — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:27:54 -0000

My debate now is now a Mac Mini v. Apple TV. Sure there is double the cost, but I was thinking of having the Mac Mini perform some other scripts and tasks while not playing home movies. I'm assuming both will have about the same capabilities (Macs need about 2ghz to push 1080p so I read somewhere so both the mini and Apple tv won't cut it).

Re: Why you should get AppleTV

Niker — Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:20:53 -0000

I've read a lot of comments to the Scoble posts regarding Apple TV. The strangest thing is that nobody noticed Apple TV can play 1080i just like XBox. Not 1080p, but 1080i yes.

from Apple Tv specs on apple.com
TV compatibility
* Enhanced-definition or high-definition widescreen TVs capable of 1080i 60/50Hz, 720p 60/50Hz, 576p 50Hz (PAL format), or 480p 60Hz