Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Why I love the US auto industry

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Natalie — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:25:05 -0000

Scott-
I'm sure all the soccer moms out there will appreciate the Flex, but I think Ford is missing out on a major market. I watch every single WRC race and have a fit every time that I can't buy a new Focus hatchback anymore. I have a 3-door 2005 SES and get 30 miles to the gallon and can pack it full of as much stuff as any station wagon out there. But when it comes time for a new car, I don't think I'll be getting a Ford. There's a huge market in the 20s and 30s crowd for fuel efficient (diesel!) fast (turbo!) compact hatchback European style cars that we just can't get from Ford. I know Ford is working on the Fiesta, but unless it can rival the rest of that market, we will keep buying the Subaru WRX, Mazda Speed3 and VW Rabbit.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Garry C — Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:50:27 -0000

(Robert, I revised my post a bit........still awaiting moderation)

Thanks Robert, I have been looking for a good place to post a comment about the US car industry.

GM, Ford Chrysler are iconic American brands and in my opinion they must be helped in these exceptional times to survive as American based & controlled brands. They have had a huge wake-up call and I doubt if it will be business as usual after the last few weeks exposure on worldwide TV. People who say they should go to the wall have surely never seen a large scale bankruptcy. The towns & states affected will have mass unemployment, the tooling for making any successful & forthcoming models could end up being taken over by competitors or, more likely, sent to the crusher. It will almost be like a large scale funeral. Is that what the auto industry bashers would really like to see happen? Do you you want foreigners to take over all aspects of your economy? It seems very unfair that new (foreign) manufacturers have been able to set up shop inside the USA at more advantageous labour rates than the Detroit companies and compete in the same market. Perhaps the legacy costs of the Detroit companies should have been "nationalised" at the same time so as to level the playing field so that they did not have to rely on SUV's & trucks to be profitable.

As a "foreign" collector of pre 1972 American cars I think it will be a very sad day for the USA if these famous US brands cease to exist or end up owned and/or controlled by non USA companies and the plants are either shut or only build products designed outside of the US. The "merger of equals" Daimler / Chrysler turned out to be a takeover by Daimler and subsequent sale. At the risk of being slated for dragging up the past I think things started going wrong when there was too much government interference starting way back in the seventies. Up to that point Detroit had very successfully implemented a policy of "planned obsolesence" with annual model changes that effectively generated interest in new models each year based on new styling and evolutionary engineering changes. With hindsight these cars were relatively simple, durable, popular & affordable. A lot of them were gas guzzlers, not much different in that respect to the SUV's of today. This is a symptom of cheap gasoline prices over a long period. Today some of the most sought after collector cars on the planet were built by Detroit in its "golden age" that seemed to suddenly end in +-1972 and many of the iconic cars of that period are regularly used as props or "stars" in current movies that are a distinct part of American culture that is soaked up by foreign audiences. There are TV shows dedicated to the restoration of US cars mostly of that period creating a resurgence of interest & awareness of the heritage of the US brands. These brands need to be rebuilt. To illustrate how influential the movies are other countries with higher gas prices have become good markets for gas guzzling SUV's.....not a good thing.

Unfortunately from +-1972 Detroit seemed to have great difficulty building "cool" cars as they were forced to comply with an endless stream of new regulations imposed by US politicians. Innovation by Detroit was aften punished eg the rear engined Corvair ...does the name Ralph Nader ring a bell?? and he still has the audacity to habitually run for president, thankfully that will never happen. But let us be fair to the US Auto Industry, there have been a few "cool" US cars since the mid nineties up to the present. The rate at which they are introduced just takes too long these days probably because of the unnecessary complexity in most modern cars as referred to by Jesse above. Even though all the designers in the company wherever they are located have access to the same CAD system in real time it seems that the cars of the 60's were quicker to get to market than the cars of today. This over complexity is a more effective form of planned obsolelence than the harmless annual model changes combined with evolutionary engineering changes that happened in the past.

Without addressing electric cars etc, which obviously must be developed fully as an alternative to petrol/diesel, in my opinion perfectly adequate affordable commuter cars could be built using sixties simplicity combined with everything learned since then that is not complex. eg 4 cyl OHC engine, 5-speed overdrive gearbox, decent suspension, rack & pinion steering, safe structure, lightweight materials, with crush zones, minimal wiring, no computers, breakerless ignition, decent paint & rust inhibition, modern lighting, 45 mpg, almost exactly as suggested by Jesse above.

Regarding the US banks.......The US banks were recently bailed out to the extent of $700 billion. I think there is a case to be made that banks should be nationalised (forever!?) and exist only to provide a service to society and not to engage in reckless speculation or whatever else they have been up to that put the whole world economy at risk. Bankers are supposed to be conservative people, not reckless speculators & risk takers. In comparison to the motor industry execs the bank execs were not made to jump through any hoops at all, except for the ones that "were allowed to fail". GM/Ford etc have been restructuring for a few years and suddenly the auto market shrunk in the last few months largely because of the global money crisis and not caused by the US auto industry. Now these auto execs are made to appear on worldwide television like naughty schoolboys / scapegoats interregated by a bunch of politicians who are probably lawyers who all appear to think they could have done a better job ......

The US Dollar.......It is a mystery to me how the US Dollar has strengthened against other currencies at a time like this. A strong USD makes foreign goods relatively cheap. The US foreign debt will never reduce if it is too cheap to import goods into the US and conversely goods made in the US will struggle to compete globally if the US Dollar is too strong. The effect of all the importing into the US has been to help build a massive manufacturing base outside the USA and export of a massive number of US jobs. The foreign countries with a trade surplus will eventually buy up much of your country as has been happening. .

Even if the best deals are foreign it may be in your long term national interest to buy American whenever possible.

Lastly.... tourists to the USA will be disappointed if the US road system is full of Japanese/German/Korean etc cars. They visit to see "America" and would love to see exciting American cars on the US roads with the imports. I am old enough to remember that people of my country who visited the USA for extended time often brought back American cars to this country almost like trophies. A teacher at my old high school brought back a 68 Dodge Charger (in 1968). GM SA used to send trainees to GM in Michigan for a year. They always brought back a Camaro/ Transam/ Corvette etc. Recently our country has banned any new imports of LHD cars which restricts sales of USA cars here unless converted to RHD. It is arguably a form of trade protection against US products.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Garry C — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:27:47 -0000

GM, Ford Chrysler are iconic American brands and in my opinion they must be helped to survive as American based & controlled brands if that is what is necessary. The management has had a huge wake-up call and I doubt if it will be business as usual after the last few weeks exposure on worldwide TV. People who say they should go to the wall have surely never seen a large scale bankrupcy. The towns & states affected will have mass unemployment, the tooling for making the successful & forthcoming models could end up being bought by ruthless competitors and sent to the crusher. It will be like a massive funeral. Is that what the auto industry bashers would really like to see happen? Do you you want foreigners to take over all aspects of your economy?

As a "foreign" collector of pre 1972 American cars I think it will be a very sad day for the USA if these brands cease to exist or end up owned and/or controlled by non USA companies and the plants are either shut or only build products designed outside of the US. At the risk of being slated for dragging up the past I think things started going wrong when there was too much government interference starting way back in the seventies. Up to that point Detroit had very successfully implemented a policy of "planned obsolesence" with annual model changes that effectively generated interest in new models each year on a desirability basis. With hindsight these cars were relatively simple, durable, popular & affordable. Some of them were gas guzzlers but not much different in that respect to the SUV's of today....latter day gas guzzlers. Today some of the most sought after collector cars on the planet were built by Detroit in its "golden age" that seemed to suddenly end in +-1972 and many of the iconic cars of that period are regularly used as props or "stars" in current movies that are a distinct part of American culture that is soaked up by foreign audiences. There are TV shows dedicated to the restoration of US cars mostly of that period creating a resurgence of interest.

Unfortunately from +-1972 Detroit seemed to have great difficulty building any "cool" cars as they were forced to comply with an endless stream of new regulations imposed by US politicians. Innovation by Detroit was aften punished eg the rear engined Corvair ...does the name Ralph Nader ring a bell?? and he still has the audacity to habitually run for president, thankfully that will never happen.. But let us be fair to the US Auto Industry, there have been a few "cool" US cars since the mid nineties up to the present. The rate at which they are introduced just takes too long these days probably because of the unnecessary complexity in most modern cars as referred to by Jesse above. Even though all the designers wherever they are located have access to the same CAD system in real time it seems that the cars of the 60's were quicker to get to market than the cars of today. This over complexity is a more effective form of planned obsolelence than the harmless annual model changes combined with evolutionary engineering changes that happened in the past.

Without addressing electric cars etc, which obviously must be developed fully as an alternative to petrol/deisel, in my opinion a perfectly adequate average affordable car could be built using sixties simplicity combined with everything learned since then that is not complex. eg Decent suspension, modern lights, rack & pinion steering, safe structure, lightweight matetials, with crush zones etc, minimal wiring, no computers, decent paint & rust inhibition, 45 mpg, almost exactly as suggested by Jesse above.

Regarding the US banks.......The US banks were recently bailed out to the extent of $700 billion. I think there is a case to be made that banks should be nationalised forever and exist only to provide a service not to engage in reckless speculation or whatever else they have been up to that put the whole world economy at risk. Bankers are supposed to be conservative, not reckless speculators & risk takers. In comparison to the motor industry execs the bank execs were not made to jump through any hoops at all. GM/Ford etc have been restructuring for a few years and suddenly the auto market shrunk in the last few months largely because of the global money crisis and not caused by the auto industry. Now these auto execs are made to appear on worldwide television like naughty schoolboys / scapegoats interregated by a bunch of politicians who are probably lawyers who appear to think they could have done a better job......

The US Dollar.......It is a mystery to me how the USDollar can be so strong against other currencies at a time like this. A strong USD makes foreign goods relatively cheaper. The US foreign debt will never reduce if it is too cheap to import goods into the US and conversely goods made in the US will struggle to compete globally if the US Dollar is too strong. The effect of all the importing into the US has been to help build a massive manufacturing base ouside the USA and export a massive amount of US jobs. The foreign countries with a trade surplus will eventually buy up much of your country as has been happening. .

Even if the best deals are foreign it may be in your national interest to be more patriotic in your buying patterns.

Lastly.... tourists to the USA will be disappointed if the US road system is full of Japanese/German/Korean etc cars. They visit to see "America" and would love to see exciting American cars on the US roads with the imports. I am old enough to remember that people of my country who visited the USA for extended time often brought back American cars to this country almost like trophies. A teacher at my old high school brought back a 68 Dodge Charger (in 1968). GM SA used to send trainees to the Michigan for a year. They always brought back a Camaro/ Transam/ Corvette etc. Recently our country has banned new imports of LHD cars which restricts sales of USA cars here unless converted to RHD. It is a form of trade protection...

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Jamie — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 15:15:50 -0000

I have to say that it's a relief to see that people do still believe that America does have supporters especially where the auto industry is concerned. What astounds me is that Congress is hemming and hawing over helping to secure the auto industry in the United States, saying they don't want to hand auto makers money. Well didn't the congress just pass a 700 billion dollar bailout, of the financial industry with few questions being asked. Handing the very same people that caused the problem in the first place a huge amount of money. Now President Elect Obama is suggesting that heads in the auto industry should roll, and CEO's should lose their jobs over it. I do not believe that the money should just be handed out either. To make the industry as a whole accountable put people in place to govern where every single dime goes, make them curtail the making of frivolous brands that are uneconomical all the way around, the Hummer and vehicles are pretty much useless other than to inflate the ego of the owner. I believe that the auto industry can be saved with a lot of "real" thinking and some serious penny pinching on all of our parts. make economical cars that are affordable, and keep the auto workers in jobs because since almost a million jobs since October have pretty much gone away, why would Congress want to add to the jobless rate by letting the auto industry flounder and fail.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Scott Monty — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 14:52:02 -0000

As a follow-up to our conversation here, Robert, I'd like to invite you to check out The Ford Story at http://www.thefordstory.com

It will undergo some changes, but it's due to the hard work of a great many people over the holiday weekend.

Scott Monty
Global Digital Communications
Ford Motor Company

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

DanJ — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:38:05 -0000

I was basically with you up through the gas tax recommendation. The worst think we can do is get the government involved in subsidizing the car industry - innovation and efficiency will go out the window faster than a gallon of gas goes out the tailpipe of a Yukon.

Recall that a tax at one level (presumably to help American car companies) will, by definition, hurt on another level. That extra $10 in taxes I'd pay each week for my gas is $10 that no longer flows to other industries who ARE producing things I really want. A gas tax for this purpose is just the government telling me that I OUGHT to want American green cars, so I MUST pay the companies that build them.

Get the government out of the way, let the market rule - and may the best companies win. That's the only way consumers win - and that's the only way America can win.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

sports cars — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 04:55:32 -0000

Not to mention the Indians. TATA motors is on its way to making the sub 2K car, and they just bought JLR. They make awful cars (Indica et al) but they are working hard..

Chevy and Ford haven't done too well againts the koreans and japanese in India, but American cars are American cars....

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

jason — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:30:04 -0000

Terrible ideas. Once I got to 'Make Tesla A Premier American Brand', I nearly fell off of my chair laughing. Tesla is an even bigger mess the big boys in Detroit. By the way, nice gas tax recommendation, that will work.....not

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Eric — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:55:28 -0000

Comments to the points written in the original post above:

1.) Generally speaking, the brand names are more of a marketing point of differentiation than a manufacturing point of differentiation. Many of these vehicles leverage the same platforms, parts, and suppliers. Getting rid of the brand names themselves doesn't inherently trim the fat from the auto industry.

The brands mentioned cater to various segments of the market and with the deep-rooted history of automotive brands, it would be hard to eliminate nameplates like Cadillac, Saturn, and GMC and relabel them as all "Chevrolet." Public perception will be expensive to change -- inevitably, you'd eliminate the brands to only introduce additional models underneath the Chevrolet brand. With American culture the way it is, it would be hard to buid a one-size-fits-all automobile.

2.) For publicly traded companies, this is often difficult to justify with shareholders. The "sub standard" vehicles represent volume, top-line revenue, and help the automotive manufacturers meet government fuel economy regulations. If these vehicles share similar sub assemblies, parts, or suppliers, then they are helping drive down the costs of the "above standard" automobile models that we do like.

This type of move would warrant some research before making any decisions like this. A market survey to understand whether or not the high-volume "sub standard" vehicles hurt public perception of a brand and model should show if this is a move worth making.

3.) The purchase of Tesla is probably something that will happen or the Big 3 will come out with their own answer. The Big 3 are most likely evaluating as follows: are our engineers good enough to develop something like this? If not, then let's investigate an acquisition. If they CAN develop something like Tesla, then judging by the speed-to-market of Tesla vehicles, The Big 3 are not interested in this because they have their own manufacturing plants and supply chains to integrate with. Better to evaluate Tesla, learn from mistakes, and innovate within the 4 walls of the Big 3 by designing an automobile that works with our supply chain.

4.) This all has to do with U.S. infrastructure supporting gasoline. Does your local gas station have a natural gas pump? Probably not, unless they cater to RVs. A natural gas powered vehicle would be a niche market product and not high-volume, so while the innovation capability certainly exists within the Big 3, it becomes a different challenge altogether when the infrastructure doesn't support an alternative type of fuel.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Dunton — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:11:38 -0000

Robert,

While I agree that we need to move towards electric cars... the fact is that the large automakers would bankrupt themselves if they started selling pure electric cars (like the ones that Tesla makes).

You see, the "problem" with electric cars is that they work too well. There aren't very many moving parts to an electric car. You don't have things like oil changes, or issues with carburetors, or fuel injectors, or catalytic converters. There are no mufflers or air filters for the engine. Even the brakes hardly ever need to be changed because the car uses regenerative braking to recharge the battery.

The "pure" electric cars require very little maintenance, making them almost TOO PERFECT!

And that's a big problem for the big automakers because they make billions of dollars servicing the antiquated technology that's still built into today's typical gas powered cars. In other words... it's going to take a bunch of small companies like Tesla to create a market for electric vehicles because the big automakers can't find enough profitability in electric vehicles unless they build them as complex hybrids with lots of "replaceable" parts in them.

It's sad, but it's true.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Dan Murray — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 07:56:18 -0000

You are right on!

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

David T — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:18:45 -0000

Cars are so 20th century....

... and bicycles are great

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Jesse — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:59:27 -0000

MattP:

Here, here! And big kudos for the point about "want" not being a desirable end-in-itself standard for designing and selling cars. Couldn't have said it better. I also liked your point about the trade agreements and standards that have artificially prevented better, more efficient imported cars from being sold in the U.S., thereby propping up crappy, overpriced domestics (to browbeat a dead horse) and their self-perpetuated production model of unsustainability. That seems like a point that is entirely absent from the discourse. A few years back, wasn't there a story about cheap, dependable Chinese or Indian cars that were prevented from being released in the U.S. purely for the sake of domestic autos? I'd thought that story had some historical recurrence as well, and yet it seems to have been suppressed in the current climate of putting the Big 3 on the cross. Anyway, great post; it wasn't lost to internet anonymity and hypersubjective industrial analysis.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Carlos — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:31:45 -0000

@rupert: yes, I forgot to write that on my last comment.

It seems that every time Mr. Scoble posts something non tech-related, he tends to be a little bit misinformed. The main idea of the post is good though

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

rupert watson — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 16:57:58 -0000

The Tesla was largely designed by Brits, by Lotus in Wymondham,UK. Tesla took it from there.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Carlos — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 05:31:55 -0000

Robert, you said:

"The fact that the VW Beattle (and Tesla and many other great cars) were designed in Los Angeles demonstrates we still have the best car designers on our shores"

The VW Beattle were designed in California because the target market is the U.S. You don't see many VW Beattles in Europe. I think the Telsa is more like an idea than a real product. It won't solve the pollution problem since it's to expensive to be bought in mass.

You also said that the chinese people want to buy the same cars your movie stars use. Are you talking about BMW, Audi, Lexus?

You had a point when you said the taxis in NY are inferior to those in Europe. Exactly, you can't compare those big piece of junk in NY to a nice Audi, Mercedes or BMW taxi in Europe.

Ah, and as Hans said, the Focus and Saturn Aura are not american cars.

@Jeremy
"I’m not sure that the production quality in Mexico can rival the US or China."

The Puebla VW facility, according to internal quality audits, is ranked as one of the Volkswagen Group's top factories worldwide.
http://www.usitoday.com/art...

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Talbain — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:31:36 -0000

Normally just read, but...
Well, the thing about American business and its success is basically that large scale businesses act on small-scale innovators. You look at Google and see that they are largely a group that has many people doing many small things that the business of Google implements on a large scale. Ford and other American companies need to get back to this, mostly by cutting the old ideas that aren't working anymore and start working on building their new ideas (one can only hope the obvious examples presented here are obvious to the manufacturers in the states as well, otherwise it's simply their incompetence that's causing their companies to go belly up). Mass production for example was only an innovation after it was applied to cars. But it's a small idea that led to massive change after implementation. Zero-emission cars are a small idea but will lead to massive change after implementation. It doesn't require government support, it requires the government to stop saving failing companies.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Better Place Community — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:20:50 -0000

Hi Robert,

Thanks for writing about us. We really appreciate it. We are also on Twitter @bpcommunity, so feel free to add us for the latest scoop!

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

JGer — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:49:15 -0000

I can not believe that you people are still whining about cars you bought 30 years ago, OMG! The "Pinto", please! That thing hasn't been made in 30 years, have you looked at anything American since then? I agree that the auto industry has issues, but stop your crying about some car you paid $3,000 for 30 years ago, you're pathetic!

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

MattP — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:41:10 -0000

Is this your definition of ‘blind faith’? Good grief there is a whole mixed bag of issues in this, and I know my points will get lost in the noise, but what the heck...

1) Bailing out the US auto industry will merely perpetuate deep seated rot. ‘Who killed the Electric Car?’ documentary says it all even if only half the footage is true. The Big Three had this coming, it’s been on the cards for at least 20 years. In 2005 GM and Ford together made losses of $7.2billion while Honda Toyota and Nissan achieved record sales.

2) Building cars that people 'want' is what got us all in the mess we are getting into. 'Want' is a perception arrived at from years of advertising brainwashing, so let's stop that. Over the past 25 years the US car industry has spent billions and billions on advertising SUVs as symbols of power and success. They spent $9 billion in the 1990s alone. Money that would have been better spent on energy efficient vehicle marketing and, most importantly, education. Current SUVs are symbols of consumerism gone insane and a development cul-de-sac. What people 'need' is quite different and Europe has the lead on this, though the idea of a ‘big executive barge’ is still sold. Excessive consumerism is not sustainable, as the Big Three are finding out. Many sustainable development advisors have been telling the Big Three and the White House this for years. They won’t listen because all they see are lost profits from the crude oil status quo.

3) The US is an excessive consumer of finite energy. China and India are learning many bad habits from the US (and Europe) in this regard. Why not leap-frog the developing nations and go ultra-energy efficient? It's a no-brainer unless your name is Bush, Cheney, Ford, GM, Chrysler...

4) US vehicle protectionism dressed up as Economic Stimulus Plan and CAFE standards enabled the Big Three to build hopelessly fuel inefficient monster dinosaurs (aka luxury SUVs) for over a decade as US business could 'benefit' from tax breaks of $75,000 through accelerated depreciation. This was and is insane.

With this massive tax deductible perk on business equipment and CAFE standards, it makes it possible to write off the entire cost of most SUVs (Hummer H2 and BMW X5 as examples) in the first year. Others, like the Hummer H1 will be practically free to the business owner. This makes buying a fuel inefficient SUV cheaper than a normal more fuel efficient car (sedan). And the US imports the majority of its oil? Who’s doing the mathematics here?

5) US protectionism features heavily in my criticisms, because it is across the board; import duties, safety standards, fuel standards, advertising and so on. For example the US continues to use a unique set of standards for its automotive safety and emissions regulations, which differ significantly from the internationalised ECE Regulations used throughout the rest of the world. This means that vehicle manufacturers face considerable expense to type-certify a vehicle for US sale. This is no accident or because US standards are higher – they rarely are compared to EU standards. This cost particularly impacts low-volume manufacturers and models, most notably the makers of energy effecient trailbalzers. Quality of diesel fuels is also an major issue, with a whole raft of CDI engines used in Europe not able to be used in the US because of lack of ULSD availability.

6) Case in point. The Smart ForTwo CDI produced in the EU by Mercedes has been on sale since 1999. It still can not be imported into the US, and yet it achieves less than 2.8 litres/100km (84 miles per US gallon combined) fuel economy and 83g CO2/Km on ULSD. In the US diesels are classed as ‘dirty’ but a petrol (gasoline) 28.2 litres/100km (8 miles per US gallon combined) Hummer H1 is OK (2006 model – I know it was the last year of that model). The 6,000cc V8 has an impressive 316hp and 360 lb ft of torque. Less impressive though as it struggles to shift its bloated overweight body around – 3,000kg of it.

The 740kg 800cc Smart ForTwo CDI belches out a lethal cocktail of particulates and 83g CO2/Km, whereas the cleaner gasoline Hummer H1 only produces 670g CO2/Km. This is calculated as Hummer don’t release CO2 emissions data, that I could find.

Hummer sales have collapsed. Smart car production going flat out, despite global recession.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Rich — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 06:47:51 -0000

There are some fundamental issues that the US car makers face that their competitors don't. This won't be cured by a bail-out:
1) Get a government healthcare system. This is *crippling* GM, Ford and Chrysler. How can they hope to be competitive when $1,000 per car goes straight onto healthcare and pension costs? Whereas in Europe we all pay for healthcare so the company doesn't need to.

2) Build cars people want. Ford of Europe is profitable because they build cars that people want and will pay to buy. Ford of America has been focussing on building enormous trucks for people who want to look as though they're on the way to a lynching. And now that fuel bills have gone up, the companies have belatedly realised that putting a 6l engine on something that ought to be driven on rails isn't the best way to sell cars. Nobody in Europe wants US cars, as they don't go round corners and the interiors are vile. So focus on smaller cars that are economical, high quality and still fun

3) Don't rely on the car finance arm. If the company's entire profit comes from the financing, something is wrong with their car building arm. Look at the early signals...

4) Oh, and ditch the private jet, you insensitive clods!

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Jesse — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:52:46 -0000

(2 cents alert! Well, more like a buck and change.)

As a mechanic, I feel the need to step in. First, domestic auto industry? Good for economy. Jobs. Unions. Pride, and such. Yeah. Now the compliment sandwich: I grew up in a household of mechanics and spent my teens wrenching on and worshiping old Chevies. So like most anybody, I was brought up on loyalty to American brands. But that all changed once I became a mechanic (well, not anymore; I would like to do something with my life besides smoke a pack a day and explain to F-tard customers that it's not a matter of salesmanship when I tell them that their wheels will fall off if they attempt to drive home. But what's that? You're going to get a second opinion? Okayyy. From who? St. Peter?).

Unless it's a Toyota or a Honda (or subsidiary brand; some Nissans), if it was built in the last twenty-five years, say, it's likely a piece of crap. You mentioned in your article some positives about the mergence of electronica and automobilia. Although to some extent this is an inevitable market shift, electronics are actually a pretty fundamental reason why so many new cars are niche pieces of junk. There is a fundamental separation in parts/forms if you want to succeed at building the thing you set out to build. As such, cars should be cars. They should not be mobile home theatres/second-rate concert venues/GPS military command centers. If you need directions, ask someone or don't drive. If you need to blast Nickelback while flipping off the innocent guy in the next lane, in the words of the Simpsons, "leave your aggression at home, where it belongs!"

Now there are about a hundred other rants exploding in my head, but the point is that the market/customer is not always right. The Big three's product lines have fallen into the trap of thinking that novelty is a good substitution for real quality, and that well-paid marketing firms could convince us to buy crap. Thing is, quality isn't difficult. Quality is simplicity (ie, R2D2 will never be my copilot, and if he is, he better make wicked strong coffee). Quality is being able to see the engine when you pop the hood, instead of burying it beneath unnecessary electronic and "comfort" systems that make routine maintenance nearly impossible, thereby assuring the premature failure of the vehicle.

And hybrids. My goodness. Nothing but a pseudo-environmental extension of the same, national carophilia. ("MPG! MPG!" Ever heard of a motorcycle folks?) And yet, even me, when I heard about the fundamental design of the Chevy Volt, as novel and over-marketed as it was (a prerequisite for any GM product), it actually made sense. Comparatively, at least. From an engineering standpoint, the Volt actually showed the most promise, albeit not much (most hybrids won't once you consider their broader implications and costs). And now it is sure to get the corporate axe when GM cinches up its budget with either piano wire or a woodchipper (Fargo, anyone?).

In sum, the big 3 need to get back to simplicity, not junk that is developed for a market model of obsolescence. Instead of building cars and trucks that are designed to fail after 100K, build ones without the extraneous junk and build them for the people whose idea of driving is not an automatic, "climate-controlled" (sunshine??), sponge-suspension, bumper-choked, conference calling, roll-down-the-highway affair. Get rid of the hundreds---sometimes thousands---of pounds of unnecessary bumpers, safety equipment, comfort systems, and yes, the electronic rat's nest. Then just apply decade's-old technology (sequential fuel injection, low idle systems) to cheap, mass-produced four cylinder engines. Put a stick shift behind it, and bam. Saved!

So. What does he drive? Used to drive a 1973 240z with a 350 under the hood. And now? A manual 1987 toyota pickup, and I'd never go back. 300K miles on the odomoeter, zero under the hood. Goin for 750K. 33 mpg. HWuhwuh!? Yep--30 years old and 33 mpg. Simplicity is golden. And for those driving the market dynamic toward poor quality and low expectations (90% of car-buyers), by buying new and selling after 30K, well silence. Silence is golden. Learn to change your oil, THEN start writing informed car articles.

And that kids, is how a confluence of market stupidity coupled with corporate group-think leads to the downfall of national, economic lifelines.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

nb — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:13:36 -0000

Whatever happen to the survival of the fittest?

IMO, the American car companies are producing bulky, inefficient, slightly nerdy looking, and technology inferior cars.

If congress throws billions at them for a bail-out, it doesn't change the fact that folks aren't buy the cars -- it only puts off the inevitable and the companies continue to produce bulky, inefficient, slightly nerdy looking, and technology inferior cars.

Personally, I'd like to see them...

- Thin out their offerings.

- Incorporate impressive technology... such as text to speech, Internet messaging, weather, etc. Make it easy for all U.S. car/truck owners to WiFi to their home network and download car/truck data (driving habits, performance, problems, maintenance).

- Offer sleek, attractive, and comfortable vehicles. Rebuild the brand.

- Incorporate plug-in hybrid technology to 80% of all their new cars and trucks moving forward. I think the U.S. would be a much better place if the first 45 miles were battery only. Some commutes would not require gas. The U.S. needs more energy independence... especially oil independence.

- Improve safety.

Needless deaths happen each week.

Perhaps cars should notify the cars behind them (on the same roadway) of traffic accidents that just happened 5 miles ahead of them?

Perhaps instead of having automatic cruise control distancing technology -- we should also have automatic breaking to prevent wrecks -- using the same cruise control technology -- to help alleviate the impact force as opposed to full impact.

Perhaps cars/trucks/motorcycles should know if they are being driven entirely too fast for a given metropolitan area and limit the speed to no more than 20 miles above the speed limit in that metropolitan area? GPS and the cars around them could provide this information.

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Scott Monty — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:01:47 -0000

@ceedee The specs for the Flex (heh - that rhymes!) are 17 mpg city, 24 mpg highway. These are the best for any 7-passenger vehicle on the market today.

Next year, our EcoBoost engine will go into the Flex, boosting that amount by about 20%. See more at http://ford.digitalsnippets...

In the meantime, Ford has the most fuel-efficient SUV on the planet in the Ford Escape Hybrid (one that President-elect Obama and his family own).

Re: Why I love the US auto industry

Hans — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:59:40 -0000

Scoble,

your American cars:
Focus
Saturn Aura

are based on Europena models.
The Saturn Aura has the same platform as the German Opel Vectra
and the Ford Focus was originally developed in Europe and released 1998 in Europe and 2000 in North America.(by the way, a very good and affordable car, which I drive for 6 years)
So much do your great American car industry and models(So what to be proud of now?).

In fact the US car industry is in very bad shape and didn't have and innovations or answers to the world problems in the lst years. Why don't you just shut down GM and fix your roads first. And start to save energy and fuel.

Did you learn such things in China?
Did you learn if all Chinese would live like the US Americans and consume so much enegry, the world would go down the drain?

Some thoughs from Europe!