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Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

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Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Xironish — Mon, 11 Sep 2006 01:41:40 -0000

I run a PC (only have some old Macintoshes, but I'm going to get a Mac mini sdoon). And I have a skinning software called WindowBlinds. Well, I just found a skin called Windows Vista, so I downloaded it and applied it. It looked the Class version.

So I'm wondering one thing. Even thought Vista takes a lot of Ghz and RAM to run fast. It ran just teh same on my computer. So why the hell can't Widnows make the sin run faster then? Or maybe it is because they want people to buy new computers, so they'll get even more money.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Lloyd — Sat, 02 Sep 2006 23:40:39 -0000

I've been running various builds of Vista through RC1. I am so upset and concerned about it. I just do not like it at all. I've written so much about why and actually very quite depressed about the new OS - I continually ask, "How am I supposed to support this? - I dislike it so intently, I cannot recommend it and since Microsoft software is such a big part of my business, what am I to do?"

I just feel ill at this point - Vista is like a date that is too eager - so in one's face about so much, yet so hard to discover. It's just an ugly mess.

"If I wanted a confusing mess of undiscoverable idiotic goo I'd have built a business around Apple and MAC OSX."

"Why oh why did Microsoft do this?"

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

california low cost health ins — Thu, 06 Apr 2006 07:12:06 -0000

I love the last post! Do you have a rss feed to subscribe to? Let me know :-) I added you to my internet favorites for now

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Medical Resources — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 23:44:57 -0000

What about the previous post? I think that's an important note as well.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Josh — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 05:10:52 -0000

As a web developer and system manager, my verdict: XP / 2003 / Linux is good enough. Vista is too ambitious, too far reaching, and I predict a launch more disastrous than XP's was as far as adoption trends and security holes go.

Any corporate admin who adopts Vista in under a year is bat-shit insane.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Ariel Morillo — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:15:46 -0000

I'm constantly amazed at these discussions between those that feel Vista is worthwhile and those that think its just fluff.

Every tech site or forum I visit is full of people bashing Windows XP and praising OSX because of its security, ease of use, good looks, etc. Microsoft now offers you something that is, at some things, equal to OSX and, in other ways, better than OSX and the answer they get is...

"Why do I need that for? XP is just fine."

Make up your mind. Either you stick with XP and quit complaining about it not being as pretty or secure as other options or you upgrade to Vista to get your often-requested "Mac-like" experience.

For someone like me that works 45 hours a week in front of a computer and then goes home to spend more time with computers, Vista is a huge welcome. Why would I deprive myself of something that will make using my computer easier, safer, and, as a consequence more enjoyable?

Price?

I bought XP Pro 3 years ago at $120.00 for an OEM copy. If you can't afford $120.00 once every 4-5 years, I suggest you quit your part time job at Starbucks and get a real job.

On the performance side of things, I have yet to hear a worthwhile argument. I have a Mac mini. It has a 1.6GHz processor and 512MB of RAM. And it is terribly slow. New software is never faster unless the previous version was slow due to bad coding practices/bugs (much like the initial release of OSX). Performance will always decrease, be it for OSes, office apps, graphic design apps, or anything else you can think of. If Microsoft made a stripped down version of XP to increase performance and sold it to you at today’s prices, the only people that will buy it are the handful of geeks that will dedicate an entire computer for running a single, specific task.

Also, you can turn off Aero Glass and get similar performance to XP. And since we all know that you don't care about eye-candy, you should be A-OK with that. You can enjoy your added security, stability, and integration though.

As an MSDN subscriber, I'm already getting a copy of Vista when it ships so I've already paid for my copy. No point in NOT upgrading. But you can bet I'm getting my parents their own copy. They won't have to deal with 3rd party AV and firewall software that does more harm than good.

As far as DRM is concerned, you might want to try heading over to your favorite search engine and looking up "FairPlay". While you are at it, see if you can find out anything about Big Brother Steve Jobs calling home every time you boot up your Mac.

Finally, when it comes to the unobtrusiveness of the OS, Microsoft will never win. I've heard people say that Windows should shut up and not bother users with patch installation notifications and the like. I've also heard people say that Windows should not do anything without their consent as they like to have complete control of their computer. You have lots of people at both extremes. You either satisfy one side or the other, or you keep it somewhere in between and mildly aggravate both.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Scott Royall — Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:46:12 -0000

Robert,

To each his own, of course, but you already read my beef against Vista. The computer market is made much more complex by the immense dicotomy of skill levels among potential buyers. The range is truly bewildering, I realize. I find myself selfishly wishing the casual user could switch to the Mac, and leave the PC to people like me who understand and really need computers. Naturally, that would never work. There aren't enough of us to substain a company like Microsoft.

Still, it's extremely frustrating to deal with an OS configured to protect people from their own ignorance. I understand the reality of security well enough that I never get a virus, and spam, what's that? Why must I be ham-strung becauae most people tromp around the Internet with their digital flies unzipped?

Of course I'm being a bit silly here, but just enough to hopefully make the point. I develop Windows apps so why should I be defaulted to limited access? No, that's not what I need, and XP is bad enough about doing it. Everything I've seen on Vista tells me it will be much worse. Fortunately, I won't be changing laptops any time soon.

Scott

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Michael — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:41:39 -0000

Wow! What's with all of these candid videos from Microsoft? Doesn't it just seem like Microsoft is trying to be cool? Lot of fluff and no creative content if you ask me.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

jg007 — Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:38:59 -0000

I forgot to ask, does anybody know, will there be a cheap u/g option for XP users as this is probably the final line in deciding wether i'll bother getting Vista. As somebody who started using dos 3 and paid for d3, d4, d5, d6, w2.1, w3, w95, w98 and XP I think microsft have already got plenty of money out of me! :)

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

jg007 — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:02:37 -0000

I can't see any reason to u/g to Vista.

I have security from Zonealarm firewall and a NAT router

I don't have money to waste

As far as IE 7 goes, apparently it will be available for XP anyway

and, I don't need unecessary desktop gloss

Windows XP works fine for me, and as I paid £70 for it last year and can't see vista being cheaper it just seems like a waste of money. The only reason for u/g would be if new games required it in order to run, or (don't listen to this point ms :) microsoft stopped supporting it, security patch wise which is hopefully not likely to happen.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Innocent Bystander — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:38:27 -0000

Joe,

Overpriced? They're comparable - cheaper when your realize you don't need to buy lots of anti-virus stuff to be safe. Do a little shopping at Dell and compare feature for feature. Oh heck, these guys already did it for you.

http://mikemchargue.com/200...
http://www.oreillynet.com/p...

Matt,

Key difference between IE and FF - FF can draw web pages (mostly) the way the w3c says they ought to be drawn. IE does nothing of the kind.

Firefox is a rollin' locomotive with the hearts and minds of the web developers (thanks to the best JS, CSS, and HTML debugging tools). IE is ancient garbage. (I've seen the IE 7 beta 1 - no improvements to rendering so far).

I'm not going to wait for you. I am going to start locking your users out of my content based on useragent if IE 7 isn't STANDARDS COMPLIANT.

I don't even understand why MS makes a browser. First, they suck at it and it makes them appear incompetent. Second, they've failed to monetize their little chokehold so where is the value in dominating the market? It hasn't helped anyone, not even MS. So why do it? I don't get it.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

John C. Welch — Tue, 24 Jan 2006 00:12:29 -0000

Matt,

how many of those exploits resulted in real damage to computers, or even could have? Since IE is so tied to the OS, almost any exploit in that code carries a much higher level of danger than Firefox is capable of.

And none of the FF exploits carried the problems of the WMF fiasco.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Matt Gerlach, Xbox MVP — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:33:26 -0000

Bystander, you know that during the summer Firefox had more exploits reported than IE6?

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Joe — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:54:56 -0000

Ha ha, the mac heads and the linux nerds come out in force for this little post.
More people will be exposed to Vista and it's graphical effects
than Apple has been able to do for OSx, The real competitor for MSFT is Linux, not an OS sold on overpriced hardware.

But go ahead and make your self feel better, the apple fans keep trying to convince the rest of us that they matter, and it's Linux that is actually making inroads into Microsofts territory.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Innocent Bystander — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:08:59 -0000

Mat,

Why you don't need Vista: F.i.r.e.f.o.x.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Matthew Price — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:37:24 -0000

Why do you need Windows Vista? I can answer your question in two letters and a number: I E 7

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Dan — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:07:09 -0000

I think its foolish to think Vista will NOT take off but its as equally foolish to think that the PC holds the same weight it used to with consumers on the idea of what the need from a computer in general. Vista is just the sauce, the real gusto is the web, and Vista can't hold a candle to what people are doing on the web. The web is the killer app, and its slowing becoming the first place, not the 2nd or the 3rd any more with users.

So will Vista take off? Sure, it has too, its destined too, like 95, ME, XP and yadda yadda before it, it merely replaces XP. Will it take time to convert everyone over? Sure, I mean thats a given. Will DRM screw things up, the more people are aware about it the possiblity it will be of a concern, is MSN worried about the hard core fan base or the billions of average joes.... hmm I'd say joe. And Joe isnt gonna have a clue either way.

To me Vista is just another hot video card on the market, yet, pretty soon games will require it, so i should probably consider getting it.

I think Apple will gain significant ground this year, that mere 5% will go up, Linux is great for servers, school grads and hacks but it isnt going home with the consumer any time soon, no without a champion. Apple owns Joe and is now about to speak to Joe on some equal footing when it comes to everyday pcs gettin on the web and doing good things. The Biz world will be tied to PC for a long while, enduring the many patches of life.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Christopher Coulter — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:25:04 -0000

Bottom line: XP SP3 borrowing heavy from OSX and Project Glass, with a few extras smash-ported in, such as Tablet and Media Center, stuff that will go unused for the vast majority. The good news: Deployment tools and toolsets is a very strong story. XP2 was a reversal last gasp, to stem the security tide, but I expect the security story to be much better in Vista (I mean it's still Microsoft, and still a poor-showing with IE7, but within their framework, it's better).

But the real irony here, is that almost all such listed (Networking, Print, Installer, Internationalization, Search, File Management, Crypto) are finally getting to the basic competence levels, but everyone with a specific need has long gone third-party. And the rest like fonts, Gadgets/Sidebars, UI, Kernalizations, and Indigo can be pushed back to XP, making it even harder to justify Vista.

Still a good starting point for those without specific needs.

With the long gasp, the 7 versions confusion, and the bad management of Licensing 6.0 and Software Assurance (forcing onto the program), more and more corporates will upgrade, yes, but with new hardware. But the cycle is in their favor, 2000 is getting stale, better to skip XP and go Vista is the corporate reasoning. Not that Vista is enterprise-compelling unto itself, just a matter of timing.

PS - RSS "platform"??? - funny how Microsoft was loath to call the web a platform in the Netscape era, yet they will freely call RSS a "platform". Weird. Been noticing that on the Softie blogs, "RSS Platform" this and that. Ozzie'isms Web 2.0 sprinkle-angel-dust gonna kill that company if they aren't careful.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Not the Bill Gates — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:24:31 -0000

To people who think that Vista will not take off: think about the fact that “every” new computer that is bought will have Vista on it already…

Aren't monopolies wonderful! Sure, people will get vista on their new pc's because they have no choice. Our monopoly on PC OS's ensures they pretty much have to accept whatever we choose to deliver to the OEM's.

I am not saying this is good/bad. I am just saying that this kind of forced adoption is somewhat meaningless. On the positive side, this may be the only way a ton of people get exposure to our new OS, and because of this increased exposure, might lead to a mild uptick in consumer PC demand.

On the negative side, this really doesn't do much to help our bottom line. Given that ~all PC's already ship with some variant of XP, we are already effectively collecting a "Microsoft OS Tax" on the world's PC run rate. The switch to Vista doesn't change this "Tax Rate" now does it? So our bottom line remains unchanged. The only way to make a material impact on our bottom line is to either "raise the Microsoft OS Tax (charge more for windows)" OR get people to "voluntarily pay the tax" by upgrading an existing machine with vista.

Will people buy an upgrade for their +5 year old PC? I am sure many will but to me the big thing will be new computers.

Back to the previous comment, here, you are asserting that "many" will voluntarily pay microsoft the windows tax a second time. They already paid this tax once when they purchased their PC ~5 years ago, and now, you think they will gladly pay us again? I am very skeptical that this will happen. Instead, I think the best that we can hope for is that some fraction of these people decide its time to purchase a new PC, and thats the most likely way for them to pay the tax a second time.

I don't know about you, but the thought of upgrading the OS on my PC horrifies me. Will it work again once I do this (Its barely working right now). I rarely am able to install software and have it work after the installation without other things breaking. I purchased a scanner last summer which includes all sorts of "crap-ware". The scanner was from HP, a brand new model, has "works with xp" stickers all over it, and sure enough, it caused me several hours of googling for help to patch my system back together again. You really think upgrading to Vista is going to be a pleasant experience? I just don't believe this.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Innocent Bystander — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:05:59 -0000

http://tauquil.com/archives...

Looks like I already have it.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

mano — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:37:24 -0000

Chrono:

I know how you feel about 98>XP! It was definitely a positive shift. Although believe it or not I feel the same about XP > Vista for the reasons listed...

Regarding CPU speeds and Vista: Vista runs fast on 2Ghz PCs actually - but if you want "Glass Enabled" in the display options, having a DirectX 9.0 video card is where the magic is - more so than having a beefy CPU.

In fact, I am typing this from a 1.7Ghz Centrino laptop and everything is super fast, with all the bells and whistles on - the video card on this laptop is DirectX9.

To people who think that Vista will not take off: think about the fact that "every" new computer that is bought will have Vista on it already... Will people buy an upgrade for their +5 year old PC? I am sure many will but to me the big thing will be new computers.

Thanks to everyone who dropped by my blog and left comments etc - talk soon.

-mano

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Chrono Cr@cker — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 05:40:33 -0000

Vista sounds good and from the beta I've seen in my friends house, IS good, but it definitely isn't the revolutionary product, that we want MS to bring out. Something like how my world was changed when I switched from 98 to Xp....

But the requirements for Vista are way too high and when released most of average (around 1.5 - 2.0 Ghz) will not run that fast on it. Plus Vista has incorporated slightly some features from the mac, if you ask me.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Graham Chastney — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 05:10:38 -0000

Oh yes, and I'd like to see Microsoft taking more decisions that result in a more stable better performing platform over peoples abilities to run their dodgy old applications. I'd rather be without an application I use occassionally that is rock solid stable than have the application and some instability.

Re: Why do I need Windows Vista?

Graham Chastney — Mon, 23 Jan 2006 05:08:03 -0000

Wow, the vitriol always facinates me on these comments. Why do you people care so much about something you seem to hate so much. Is it just because you are addicted to a "love - hate relationship".

For me Vista's primary issue is in the consumer space. There are going to be a lot of people who bought a PC a couple or three years ago who are wanting to do more and more with it and considering an upgrade, and probably a replacement. I'm increasingly speaking to people who have friends who use Macs and are having good experiences. These people are all considering giving them a try. That for me is the real challenge point and I'm not sure that the answer is in the Operating System so much as in the integrated experience, technology, purchase and support all from the same company gives people a sense of comfort that they think will be better than the expereinces they currently get from HP or Dell.

The corporates will change when it's convenient for them to do so, and for most that will probably be driven by the support cycle rather than any features.