Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Jon — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:47:49 -0000

>>>That’s 1970s bullshit, Dawn?

No, what's bullshit (decade irrelevant) is you finding some sort of farreaching, phantom offensiveness in a simple act of defending one's loved ones over a matter that had become public.

It seems some people today are so anxious for drama and conflict that they look under every rock, within every crevice, to try to find the worst way to interpret a set of words no matter their original intent. When they find it, they cry out, assuming the world must be out to get them. Somehow everyone is attempting to demean, to suppress, to "bring them down."

It does a disservice to the real issues -- mysogyny, racism, and other equally substantial and equally critical -- when looks for fault, hurt, or offense, and then reacts to that phantom charge in the artificial name or spirit of that challenge.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Charlene — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:18:06 -0000

Go back to Kathy Sierra case. Kathy probably gathers enough pieces to feel the danger. The trouble is What If she is Right. I would rather have Kathy protected herself screaming loud than having something tragic happening to her. Therefore I wouldn’t recommend anyone to tease her being over-reacting or attention-grabbing. Crimes happen all the times.

You know that if she hadn't said anything, a certain class of men (the gang at Something Awful, Fark, etc.) would have blamed her for being "a dumb bitch" because she didn't react. Because she did react, she's "a dumb bitch" for overreacting.

It reminds me of the Rutgers basketball team fiasco. Look at all the people coming out of the woodwork (and rightly so) about Don Imus's racial comments. How many of them are mentioning Imus's and his director's misogynist comments? Not many. It's much more acceptable to hate women, to trash-talk them, than it is to hate and trash-talk African-Americans. Women just have to "deal with it". Heck, men are often pressured in private to trash-talk women and are seen as pussy-whipped if they don't.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Dawn Douglass — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 23:40:16 -0000

"I wouldn’t have to listen to a woman who takes for granted the benefits derived from the hard work and sacrifice of women she so casually disdains."

Again, I suggest you get off your high horse and lose the condescending assumptions, Shelley.

Nobody gave me anything, nor guaranteed me anything, least of all a bunch of misguided women whose "hard work" is degrading males and whose "sacrifice" is millions of preborn babies.

I'm older than you and I dare say more successful than you are, and your "don't demean my sister nor dare challenge anything I say lest I call you a harasser" trigger finger had absolutely nothing to do with it, thank you very much.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Diego — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:30:04 -0000

Anyway, no big deal. How'd we get here? Lets get back to talking about more important stuff... like Twitter! :D

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Diego — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:26:34 -0000

"I wouldn’t have to listen to a woman who takes for granted the benefits derived from the hard work and sacrifice of women she so casually disdains."

Takes it for granted? Doesn't necessarily mean someone does take it for granted because they call it feminist bullshit. When I say "feminist bullshit" I talk about the extreme crap which gets bandied around sometimes. Oh God, don't open the door for me! I'm a woman and I can open it myself. Who gives a shit!?!? That is the sort of feminist bullshit which is incredulous. Also when people push their beliefs in to the personal space of others, like commenting about a married couple and how they conduct their lives. None of your business. All the stuff about sexual harassment at work, equality etc. is great! But then there are feminists which carry it over the line with their, yes that's right, feminist bullshit then it gets really annoying. They talk about the great stuff that has resulted from the 70's feminist movement, but then also bring in their extreme edge crap with it. It's that second lot which most people hate. It's gets annoying, like a broken record or nails down a blackboard.

Annoying crap spewed by people like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Shelley Powers — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:58:09 -0000

If you geniuses had bothered to take a look, you'd have seen that I apologized to Robert Scoble for commenting on his interaction with his wife several comments ago.

As for 1970s feminist bullshit--is that the same bullshit that guaranteed you the right to have a say about your body, that you're free of sexual harassment at work, that you're entitled to equal opportunity in school and on your job?

That's 1970s bullshit, Dawn?

Well, I know of a couple of countries that would agree with you. Perhaps you might want to consider immigrating there, and then you need never deal with bullshit like that 1970s feminist bullshit ever again.

See? Then we'd all be happy: you wouldn't have to deal with feminist bullshit, and I wouldn't have to listen to a woman who takes for granted the benefits derived from the hard work and sacrifice of women she so casually disdains.

And I give our gender a bad name?

Right.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Diego — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 19:36:30 -0000

"Shelly, frankly, I can’t stand women like you who look for offense in everything, not only regarding themselves but regarding other women. You are the ones who give our gender a bad name.

Calling the actions of a husband sticking up for his wife “demeaning” is 1970s feminist bullshit."

*applause!!!*

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

SarekOfVulcan — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:37:42 -0000

Oops, forget I wasn't logged in as myself there. :-)

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

partisanchaos — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:58:36 -0000

"be careful about talking with friends who have blogs"

That sounds very similar to the advice you need when your friend is a songwriter. At least one of Christine Lavin's songs has come out of a late-night IM conversation...

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

bohemianprose — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:19:04 -0000

I once read a T-shirt that read "watch out or you'll end up in my novel" Let your Yes be Yes and no be no.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

John C. Welch — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:51:52 -0000

Winer writes: “You’ve got some real dork-like trolls here Scoble!”

Mr. Pot, may I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?

Don't you know The Dave is always right?

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Salubri — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:32:38 -0000

I have only got as far as comment #24 on this thread and while I'll be reading more and might even comment on the whole situation at some point, I'd like to make a quick knee jerk reaction here...

Shelley - I have read a bunch of comments by you here and on a couple of other blogs (I assume they are all by you - at least they were all in the name Shelley and all pointed to burningbird) and have found you to be witty and pretty much on the point most of the time. Your blog is erudite and all round a good read. However... I'd just like to ask if you mean to be demeaning to Maryam by suggesting that she would not be able to tell him if he was "demeaning her" as you suggest? Or possibly she wouldn't spot it? Who are you to fight her fight without consulting her or to post about her feelings without letting her read your posts first? Come on! Stop defending this point and get on with making better ones!

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Dawn Douglass — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:37:32 -0000

Shelly, frankly, I can't stand women like you who look for offense in everything, not only regarding themselves but regarding other women. You are the ones who give our gender a bad name.

Calling the actions of a husband sticking up for his wife "demeaning" is 1970s feminist bullshit. And then to later play the 'poor little me' female victim of all the male bullies who took your ridiculous point head on is, guess what, DEMEANING. Not just to you but to all women.

Grow up and get over female self.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Jeffrey — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:27:07 -0000

Winer writes: "You’ve got some real dork-like trolls here Scoble!"

Mr. Pot, may I introduce you to Mr. Kettle?

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

casual reader — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:19:56 -0000

All of you bloggers on all sides of this issue look like a bunch of kindergarten kids fighting on the playground. It is fracking hilarious! Get over yourselves.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

John C. Welch — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:36:23 -0000

Dave Winer: Think twice before you post something about pregnant lady. The unborn baby is involved.

This post is brought to you by the letters "W", "T" and "F".

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

raincoaster — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:15:35 -0000

It's not a blog issue: it's a writing issue. If you haven't looked at a crowd and thought "ah, material!" you're not really a writer. Shaw put it best when he said, "a true artist would kill his own grandmother for his art; the 'Ode on a Grecian Urn' is worth any number of little old ladies." And so it is.

While this whole episode must have been horrible to live through (and still is, obviously) it's easy to see that good will eventually come of it. You know Dave a little better now; you can measure what you say to him or make the educated decision not to. You've learned that conversations that aren't specifically agreed to be off the record aren't. Period. You've learned that the assumptions you and Maryam take for granted aren't shared by a large group of bloggers. And you're learning just where each blogger sits in this stadium. All useful to know.

I met your wife at Northern Voice and it's hard to believe any of the attack could really have been motivated by dislike: she's about the nicest person in the blogosphere. But does knowing that it was a completely impersonal attack masquerading as a personal one help? I hope so. They don't know or care about Maryam; they just picked a target with more celeb value than they have.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Ricky — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:20:19 -0000

"be careful about talking with friends who have blogs"

They're not really friends then Robert..

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Tim — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 05:14:13 -0000

"Where are the big words from last week about the tech community’s treatment of women? Or is it only certain women, and in certain circumstances? Such as when you yourself is not challenged?"

I thought they were attacking your opinion, not the fact that you are a woman. Otherwise suddenly no-one can disagree with or criticise a woman, otherwise it's proof positive of the misogyny of the tech/blogging community? That really is a lame argument. "I'm a woman. You're arguing with me. Therefore you hate women." Are all men Socrates, too?

I am reminded of an exchange from a TV show called 'Hippies':

Jill: Don't argue with me, Ray. I thought we agreed that arguing with women is intrinsically wrong, and a sign of oppression.
Ray: Did we?
Jill: Yes.
Ray: Was I there?
Jill: Yes.
Ray: Can I still vote?

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Bess — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:39:33 -0000

This week inTouch Weekly magazine has an Ad titled "Philanthropist or Sex Kitten" on a Relief Fund.

This time the spelling is correct! Kitten is going "main stream".

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Bess — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:30:44 -0000

It is not okay to assume Maryam has the same open policy like Robert thinking Maryam can take the same type of attack like a guy.

It is not a secret that Maryam is pregnant in her 2nd trimester. Why frighten a pregnant lady? It is medically known that pregnant females experience drastic changes in hormone. Guys, give her a break!

It is not fair for an unborn child being frightened by these male bloggers. We'll hold you responsible if the baby grows ugly or goes bald.

Robert Scoble: Take care of your Maryam. Give her the love she deserved. Shield her with love , away from those haters and nasty responses.

Dave Winer: Think twice before you post something about pregnant lady. The unborn baby is involved.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

Bess — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 04:10:59 -0000

It is pretty hard to stay silence.

"Raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens
Bright copper kettles and warm woolen mittens
Brown paper packages tied up with strings
These are a few of my favorite things"

It is not okay to assume Tech Females are over-reacting frightened kittens. Let me share a personal real story here (short version) to illustrate the point.

###
On one summer warm Saturday in a busy street in SF downtown, I was innocent enough to offer help to a stranger because the stranger was making weird noises while leaving baggages outside the car. The stranger didn't response my offer triggered me to go back the 2nd time to look at the car. A couple of things strange enough to make me wonder. I didn't have prove. However, I made a wise determination on the spot - What If I am Right about the crime?

There were so many people walking on the street like business as usual. There was a couple hundreds of guests gathering for a celebration just 10 yards away from the crime spot. At least there are tens of medical doctors and tens of Ph.D.s attending the celebration at the time. Yes it is frightened to be the only one to call it with no prove.

No one was willing to help me on the street. I turned to the building security guard. The guard couldn't do anything without prove except calling the police. At the end, the car bulgar walked away with all the baggages.

The police arrived in time to arrest the car buglar. If I didn't ask the guard to run down the street to check the car, the car bulgar could have driven the car away. Police told me they have been questioning the same car buglar many times in the past. I was the only one witness caught the bulgar in action with strong evidence - stolen baggages. Distory Attorney called to inform me that the case was close due to my report after the trial at court.

There were so many people watching the crime occurred, did nothing and said nothing. No one want to believe a car bulgar would break into a car on a busy street.
###

Go back to Kathy Sierra case. Kathy probably gathers enough pieces to feel the danger. The trouble is What If she is Right. I would rather have Kathy protected herself screaming loud than having something tragic happening to her. Therefore I wouldn't recommend anyone to tease her being over-reacting or attention-grabbing. Crimes happen all the times.

On the other hand, I encourage Kathy not to stop loving what she loves to do. Love will overcome hate. Passion will overcome fear.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

George R. — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 03:29:32 -0000

Well, I came back to this ye olde comments section to see if Mr. Scoble had any more wise words. Well, Scoble did, but he rest of you illustrate completely what I talked about in my earlier comments, which means you read them and didn't care, or you didn't read them at all. Which (the latter) is more likely the case and the problem with the Internet as it is, with how easy it is to either start a blog or comment on one, the:

ME ME ME LOOK AT ME I'M AWESOME syndrome.

Maybe you people didn't get enough attention as kids, or maybe you were really unpopular at school, but now in your "adult" lives you are ready to get on this series of tubes we call the Internet and blog the FUCK out of it.

Whatever. You're not that important.

Mr. Scoble and his wife got burned by people, people who may or may not be total and complete assholes, and they are learning from it.

Drop it.

You're upset. You're upset at Dave Winer. You're upset at meankids. You're upset at me. That's fine. Be upset at me. Then realize I'm just some dude on a Macbook who has some time on his hands, then get out and experience something awesome. Look up some new music on the Internets. Go to your local music hall and see some band you've never heard of. Spend some time with your husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend/weird transvestite that hangs out in your living room even though you've never met him. Whatever.

This is, with all the meanness and violence and stupidity, a really cool place to live, and to be. Enjoy it while you can. No matter who wins some blog war, we're all going to be offline at some point.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

John C. Welch — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:40:38 -0000

John, you’re right, you weren’t making fun of me. And you’re also right in that I can be on the receiving end as well as the giving.

Ain't nobody prefect and all. I'm lucky. I have a cadre of close personal friends who are quick to email me with "You're being a dick, knock it off ya assmunch". I highly recommend such a group, they're really handy when the ego starts to have the bad thoughts.

You should come to Macworld, there's free-flowing beer there. I know people you'd have fun with.

Re: Um, Dave, what Maryam really was hurt about

observer — Tue, 10 Apr 2007 00:27:15 -0000

Dave is being sued by his former friend. Lawsuits speak louder than words. Dave should remember that years ago the "angry mob" went after Hitler, he should be thankful they did.