Scobleizer - Latest Comments in The suits vs. the geeks

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Some things never change — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:48:37 -0000

...it's been there for a thousand years.

If you go to battle, put your armour on - just that we don't use swords any more, but keyboards. Suit of armour changed from iron to wool/silk. What does an amour do to you self-esteem?

This only relates to courtlings. REAL leaders always made their own rules.
Also does not relate to startups/rebels. See Robin Hood and his startup in the woods.

So if you are a courtling at the court of, let's say, MS, you will have to fight against the other courtlings, as wells as against the other courtlings of the other majesties.

If you were a productive peasant then, or are a productive geek now: love it, change it or leave it. (Possible now, not then - that is were the "progress" hides)

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

pinastro — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:57:25 -0000

http://pinastro.wordpress.c...

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Mick — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 09:49:44 -0000

The suits in upper management and the "account executives" are making the big bucks off the brains and 24/7 work ethic of the geeks.

It's not unlike the royals in their silk clothing wigs and slippers living off the spoils of their craftsmen and peasants.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Ged — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 05:04:21 -0000

Stick it to the man Scob!

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Jonathan Mason — Tue, 05 Dec 2006 12:04:28 -0000

But jeans are not particularly comfortable. I live in a fairly hot part of the US, and though I have jeans and sometimes wear them for yardwork etc., lightweight slacks are much more comfortable for general wear and indoors.

T-shirts don't look good on most people either. They don't stay ironed, and quickly lose their shape.

It seems to me much more that wearing jeans for indoor work is a cultural and fashion statement that shows that the person concerned is actually very concerned about how they are perceived by others.

The problem with wearing suits, on the other hand, is that they cost a lot to buy initially, and require expensive dry cleaning. Additionally, the accessories like shoes, shirts, and ties may also be expensive.

Either way, jeans and T-shirt or business suit are both uniforms, and the important thing is to know what you need to wear or not wear to be acceptable in whatever work environment you operate. If you dress in such a way that you alienate others, then clearly you are dysfunctional in that setting.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Mic — Fri, 13 Oct 2006 08:10:54 -0000

I'm glad u mentioned The Geek Gap. I'll check it out. And it's why I started a blog called GeekWhisperer.wordpress.com. There is a communications breakdown between the suits and the geeks.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Billbeau — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:02:01 -0000

And this chasm between the suits and the geeks is precisely why we wrote the book "The Geek Gap." I don't generally do this sort of shameless promo, but this post was just begging me to comment. ;-)

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

LayZ — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 20:02:59 -0000

This just in. Head of MS Resarch and Strategy wears a suit!! Guess he's a pretender.
http://www.microsoft.com/pr...

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Christopher Coulter — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 15:47:34 -0000

LOOK OVER THERE! A guy in a SUIT. Gasp. The horrrror, the scourage, the sheeeeer inhumanity. Go beat him up! Put the fear of God in him, and jeans on him.

Maybe the geeks can start a Suit Liberational Front movement, dumping paint on suits over just fur coats. And stage protests and firebombings at Macy's and Men's Wearhouse's.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Elisa Camahort — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 10:44:58 -0000

LayZ: Sigh. You're probably right. Although I will say the Mercedes guy was much more receptive to me than the BMW guy.

Adam: I do almost agree on people now not dressing up ever. BTW: Remember when air travel was something one dressed *up* for? OK, some of you may not be old enough to remember that, but it's true!

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

LayZ — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:49:16 -0000

Elisa, I'm guessing that unfortunately your experience was not because of how you were dressed, but because of something you have no control over.. your gender. I once did an experiment.. my wife showed up at a Mercedes dealership dressed in a smart business suit. She came in alone. I came in after her dressed in shorts and a T-shirt. I got helped before she did.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

LayZ — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:45:50 -0000

"For the people criticizing Robert for making the “suits vs geeks” comparison, wearing suits is one thing, but he’s right - people in high tech industries wearing suits are generally clueless about the most up to date technology. It’s just a fact. I’ve been in this industry for 15 years and 95% of the suits I’ve met have been behind the times from a “what should we do with technology” creative standpoint. It’s just not in their souls."

Geez, dude. Generalize much? What's next? All Asians are good a math? All blacks are good at sports? All people from India are computer geeks? All white people from the south are redneck racists?

Your 95% surely hasn't been that broad of a spectrum. I'm guessing you spent no significant amount of timetime in Japan (you, either Scoble) in London at Docklands, or a lot of other places where wearing suits to your job is almost a cultural requirement. But you and Scoble go on living in your shortsighted world.

Put a suit on once or twice. You'd be surprised at how well it works.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

LayZ — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:37:50 -0000

Queue that one hit wonder song from the 70's

"Signs" by the 5 Man Electrical Band. Did you write that song, Scoble:

"Now, hey you, mister, can't you read?
You've got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't even watch, no you can't eat
You ain't supposed to be here
The sign said you got to have a membership card to get inside
Ugh!"

Right on, Man! Power to the People! Stick it to the Man!
(for the clueless, that was sarcasm)

Scoble I'm guessing you wouldn't have the first clue about how to get a good suit, shirt or shoes made? Sad, really.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

monkeyleader — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:35:59 -0000

I was once sitting in a bar most of the afternoon with friends, just chilling, few drinks, plenty of laughs. Then at 7pm the bar manager came over and asked me to leave as I was wearing jeans - they were happy to take my jeans wearing business before 7pm.

You can image - monkey wasn't best pleased !

Nige

PS: oh the bar, Henrys in Cambridge, UK !

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

LayZ — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:18:49 -0000

"sitting with a bunch of suits" WTF? Are we in the 60's now?

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Adam — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 18:57:44 -0000

I see arguments on all sides here :).

I greatly appreciate being both allowed to and not disrespected for wearing *comfortable* (for me) and not-fancy clothing at work.

With that said, though, I lament what I perceive to be the lack of class of people who wear ripped jeans and grimy t-shirts to the symphony. I miss the days (boy I'm sounding old!) when people *dressed up* to go to a nice restaurant or to the theatre. Doesn't have to be a nice suit... but I'm talking about cleanliness, some pride in one's appearance, etc.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Thomas Hawk — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:43:39 -0000

Don't feel bad Robert. I was the only person in jeans and a t-shirt at the fancy GigaOm / Xing party on Monday night.

Of course the t-shirt was black.

And it did say diggnation on it.

so I kind of felt like I was dressing up for the party.

T-Shirt and jeans are great. You still can't wear them to a country club though.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Matt Cutts — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:28:16 -0000

Many thanks, Aram. Interesting results once people selected their own products; I'll have to dig into it more. I wish the research report had the raw ratings.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

theinandouts — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 15:38:30 -0000

Not a good sign. What kind of jeans were you wearing though? Hope they were the IN kind. Cheers!

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Elisa Camahort — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:13:56 -0000

Wow, I had the exact opposite reaction of Sam Simon.

A few years back at the peak of my corporate, well-paid, pre-bootstrapping start-up days I wanted to get a new car. I went to all the dealers: BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, etc. etc. etc.

BMW, without question, treated me the worst, and I gave them three chances. Each time they were condescending, dismissive, rude.

My mother asked me, "Well, how were you dressed?" The answer is: in sweats and a pony tail, but the bigger answer was: I don't feel I should have to dress up to "let" someone sell me a 40K car.

I will never ever buy a BMW.

The thought that in Silicon Valley they couldn't realize that I might just be able to pull out my checkbook and drive off the lot with that car fully paid astounded me.

The two most respectful dealers? Respectful about talking to me, not my boyfriend. Respectful about my desire for no leather interiors because I'm a vegan. Respectful enough to talk horsepower and engine size, not vanity mirrors. For me it was Audi and Volvo. I got the Audi.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Kent Nichols — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 11:45:31 -0000

I distinctly remember you wearing an all black outfit on Saturday of the PME. Not a suit, since there was no jacket, but definitely dressy.

This also reminds me of a story Sam Simon, one of the creators of the Simpsons tells. He was dressed really ratty and walked into his Mercedes Benz dealer to buy some new floor mats. He saw a new model of SUV and asked a salesman about it. The salesman was very dismissive, so Sam went to his manager and bought the $80,000 SUV on the spot -- out of spite!

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Rhandir — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:45:47 -0000

in 27, Pete Quily wrote:
"Often wearing a suit is just a sign that you work at a job where you don’t have the power to decide to wear whatever you want. It’s kind of a lack of status symbol here on the west coast"

And that is the heart of the matter. "Suits" usually aren't in control of their own work environments, with all that entails. Who is more powerless now? The cube jockey who has to wear a tie, or the cube jockey who can wear the jeans if he wants to?

Ironically, the most likely exceptions to that are the people in the country club - after a certain point, you can use really bloody expensive suits to signal your financial power.

Back in the days when tailored, custom made clothing was the norm, not the exception this worked in the opposite direction: jeans were a sign that you were one of those powerless joes who had to sling steel in the mills, or slaughter cows in the stockyards. The old country club rules are all about keeping the riff-raff out, which Scoble correctly percieved.

-r.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Jason M. Lemkin — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:45:54 -0000

"The real action in the valley is still with the folks who wear jeans and T-shirts."

Next time skip the Sharon Heights country club and walk down SHR to SLAC's dining room and lunch at the place where some real action indeed takes place ;)

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Christopher Coulter — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 05:21:49 -0000

Yah know this reminds me of the Hippies vs. Suits yapping of historical yesteryear, that before the Hippie's became Yuppie Beamer-Driving Scum. Peace, Love and Understaning, yeah yeah, stop with that one-note song, Haight is a now mini-Mall orgy of commerence. And all we are left with is the 'LSD in-the-DNA bubble-blowing Libertarian fraud-kiddies' feeding offa the DARPA Empire.

Biggest scandal stories? Hah. Country Clubs are private ventures, they can pick and choose, exclude or not, might not always be wise, but that's the price and right of freedom.

PS - Anyone who banks on "status symbols" as a mark of character is doomed from the get-go.

Re: The suits vs. the geeks

Joseph A. di Paolantonio — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:32:46 -0000

Actually, suits are post-bubble. During the bubble, everyone wore polo shirts and khaki pants. Post-bubble, people started wearing suits, french blue shirts and power ties, to prove that they hadn't lost it when the bubble burst. :-D

I switched from ties to bolos when I moved from the East Coast to Denver in the early 80's and lost the ties for good when I was consulting to Berkeley SSL in the mid-80's.

Robert, you've seen me and know I like henley shirts, Scott eVests and taboose pants. ;-)