Scobleizer - Latest Comments in The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

rick — Sat, 09 Sep 2006 19:29:21 -0000

Complaining about air pollution?

Own a car?

Naturally, it's much easier blaming smokers for emphysema in schoolchildren rather than internal combustion engines..

"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Terence — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:26:34 -0000

Oh, by the way, you do know there's a world out there of development in the mobile field, don't you? And that this is led by Japan, South Korea and Europe, don't you?

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Terence — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:14:49 -0000

I think your next step should be claiming a Nobel Prize for your new look at economics. You're probably reading too much Freakonomics. Your post is amazingly dumb and self-centered. And since you're definitely not a dumb person, I'm forced to believe you wrote this just to get comments like mine and keep your A-list vanity going on. Which is close to dumb. Oh man, you're absolutely omphalocentric. One day you'll realize the world out there couldn't care less about your babble. I do care, unfortunately - that's part of my environment. Just to avoid any attempt at "if you're against me, you're either a smoker or an "european" (as if there's such): I don't smoke. I never did. And I'm neither European nor born in the US.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Ben Borges — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:46:39 -0000

I like the "fix your culture" when 80% of all tobaccos giants come from your such "clean" country..make me think of Marlboro and all the rest..your comparison is totally irrelevant ! geek are only in SF, for me your read too much fiction !

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Chris Brennan — Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:57:58 -0000

It's all about cash. That is all.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Jamie — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 23:01:47 -0000

Hm, you got lots of bites on smoking, but not about the location issue. On the latter, why AREN'T we as a community evolving more quickly past geo-fixated social networks?
There are lots of businesses now with remote & highly asynch staff. Modulo a few Gen-X VC influences ("I-don't-want-my-money-going-farther-away-than-a 90-minute-drive"). But when describing the ~virtue~ of SV, Rob & commenters here seem to focus on future networking potential. It's OK if my direct reports are in Bangalore and Boston, but I want to be in the same county as my ideal next partner or employer? Hm, is this more of a "next gig" than a "current gig" thing?
I know some coders in Hungary who are just as sure as you that there's no worthwhile geek life outside of one or two places ... but for them, all of them are in Eastern Europe. Not sure this is a global Valley-centric issue. Maybe more like a common tendency not to like dealing with unfamiliar environments?

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Gene — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 15:13:44 -0000

Robert,

Let's not forget about Northern Virginia/DC Metro Area. 90% of the world's (yes, world's) Internet traffic passes through NOVA every day. There are as many tech companies here as there are in SV. The pay is the same. There are more Ph.Ds and Masters Degree holders here than anywhere else in the country. The average salary here for geeks is just under 6 figures, many exceeding 200k a year. We're talking geeks here. I work in IT security and I personally make 105k a year. Guess what? I'm moving to the midwest because, Like Pepe so expertly put it, people think their **** doesn't stink in places like this and in SV. People go into debt and drive stupidly expensive cars to impress people they don't even know. People shop at overproced stores and eat at vastly overpriced restaurants to impress people they don't know around them. People do this to show people they don't know they've somehow "arrived." Arrived at what? Debt, stupidly high monthly mortgage that exceeds the recommended 20% of one's monthly salary, $500 a month car payments, and a whole slew of other dumb things.
I want out. I am going to take a $50k a ear job to enjoy my family, no traffic, a nice home in a quiet area, a good church life, etc. There are geeks there. It's actually more fun when there are fewer geeks, not more. I work and live next to geeks. I want to talk to the barista chicks, the farmers, the waitress. I want to talk with real people about real issues, not just what stupid browser plug-ins someone uses.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Jim Stanton — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:19:51 -0000

Sorry Robert, but you're on crack if you think its hard to get a job outside the valley. Boston is booming again, and my friends in southern california are all fully employed.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Matt — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:40:09 -0000

Got to say the assumption that the only talent is in the Valley is pretty outdated. Irrespective of whether companies should be moving from Europe or not, you have to admit some of the best open source developments have come out of Europe.

That said, I've created a pretty pointless web 2.0 mashup thingy that shows precisely where the current open source vendors are based. One thing it does show is that open source is very much a Silicon Valley phenomenon.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

ukdanae — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:45:45 -0000

I think the underlying arrogance of this post is what really puts me off. You say Europe is losing tech people because of its bad cultural choices, but I expatriated from the US for the same reason. A lot of very bright people will prefer Europe to the US, partly because of the needless arrogance and need for dominance demonstrated here.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

WitweBolte — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:42:38 -0000

Maybe it's more about evolution. In short, the evolution towards non smoking environments fosters technical achievements by attracting more capable people. Is that true?
I think the attractiveness of a life in the US has much deteriorated in the eyes of many Europeans in recent years. The way you are treated at the airports and by officials for example. But thats just another primitive stereotype growing like that in the original post.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

dmad — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:38:55 -0000

@72, and Jonathan Postel did is work at...eek UCLA.. Los Angeles, which is NOT SV.

LDAP came out of the Univ of Michigan

And let's not forget the ITU.

I'm not seeing much history coming out of SV given these last few posts. Remind me again why it's the computing center of the universe?

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Sandeep — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:30:41 -0000

Come to India - the food aint half bad either!!

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

dmad — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 04:20:00 -0000

Scoble, you were that obsessed with figure out who smokes and who doesn't? Scary. Any other behaviors you disapprove of that you are monitoring?

The point is, almost every figure you come up with seems to be pulled out of your ass but you seem to want to state it as fact.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Mark Marchall — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 03:18:07 -0000

You do know that Europe has a population of over 700 million in over 50 countries, right? I think you should be a bit careful with making general statements about the European culture. It is quite diverse.

There are countries in Europe that have _very_ strict bans on smoking, others that are more liberal. There are countries in Europe with a lower percentage of smokers than the U.S., and there are countries with a higher percentage. But you really shouldn't draw on your personal experience from a few countries to the whole continent.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Simon — Fri, 07 Jul 2006 02:47:40 -0000

Since Bill is rolling out the big guns...

I'll join him and roll out another one. HTML, WWW & Tim Berners-Lee.

http://www.w3.org/History/1...

WWW would not have happened in Silicon Valley.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Wild Bill — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:05:07 -0000

So. "The only place to create technology is Silicon valley".

And "all Europeans stink of cigarettes".

Once you have rid all Europeans of Smoking, what next ? Banning obesity ? Moustaches ? People who wear toupees ? Masons ? Gays ? Gypsies ? Jews ?

Right.

[For those of the hard-of-thinking, this was an argument type where I demonstrated the complete falicy of the proposition by expanding it to comedic proportions. Of course I would never propose any of these things]

See where ignoring your own constitution gets you ? See where intolerance gets you ? Right into an unhealthy, ugly place. Racism Central.

So.

Does *all* technology come from Silicon valley ? Surprisingly not.

Choose the industrial revolution. Choose the phone. Choose Capitalism (Adam Smith), Physics (Maxwell), the American Constitution (Based on the declaration of Arbroath), the TV, Radio, Radar, the Diesel engine, Penicillin, Prolog, microcode, The Microwave, DNA-Cloning (Dolly the sheep), MRI scanners. Choose the guys in the Alamo.

(10 bonus points for spotting the film reference)

Where did they come from ?

Oh. Scotland. Ever been there ? Its cool.

(I'll give you Marconi was an Italian, but he worked in Glasgow).

Where was the first computer built? The first 10 computers ? Oh. It wasnt the US. It was Bletchey Park in the UK, and it knocked three years off World War 2. It was still secret till the late '80s'.

Alan Turin would possibly (for a given value of "true") turn in his grave listening to your rantings.

Right. Finished being so quite arrogant and nationalistic/xenophobic yet ?

Yes - silicon valley has a huge density of geeks & VC's - hell - a lot of Scots moved there. What do you expect ? But is it the ONLY place to work ?

Brownouts, drive by shootings, Web v1.0, hugely expensive property, Earthquakes ? Sold it to me already.

Whats the biggest computer company in the world?

[ Not "Whats the biggest software company in the world" - thats your ex-employer - who are NOT based in silicon vallley. ]

The biggest computer company is IBM. And where do they do the majority of their research ?

All over the world.

So. Pleeeeeease. I know your excited about moving back to Silicon Valley. To the extent where you seem to think that all Europeans smoke.

(They banned smoking in all buildings in Scotland this year - and will follow in Englandshire later this year. Holland. Almost gone. Ireland. Gone. Get the idea ? You choose to socialise with folks who blow smoke in your face and you categorise an entire content ?)

Get a grip.

I'm just about at the stage where I read this blog out of morbid curiosity.

---* Bill
http://www.billbuchan.com

P.P.S. On the more positive note, I introduced my father - who is 73 - to the iPod and the idea of Podcasting last week.

He "got it" in about 3 minutes flat and is desperate to record his band and podcast it. Does this (a) prove that Apple UI design is easy and (b) does this make my old man the oldest of the iPod generation? Oh and (c) he's started blogging. No - he's not read your book...

Not bad for an ex trawlerman out of Fraserburgh, eh ?

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Guest — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:38:36 -0000

I agree 100% about the smoking. I could never live where people can just smoke freely like they do much of Europe. I can't even stand walking behind or standing behind these people who smoke *outside* while I wait for the train or bus each morning. It's a disgusting habit. It only take about 10 seconds standing in a puff of someone else's smoke that I come home and my kids ask why I stink.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Robert Scoble — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:17:55 -0000

Dmad: I counted how many people were smoking at LIFT and Reboot conferences. As a conference planner such minutia interests me. I'd like to do events again someday and knowing the behavior of your audience is important.

But, they aren't scientific, so, if you want to say I pulled that out of my ass that's fine with me.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

dmad — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 20:04:16 -0000

@44. You still didn't answer my question. How do you support your 20% number? Look it's fine if you say it's a number you pulled out of your ass. At least it would give you some credibility in that you would be admitting to making it up.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

-- Morgan Schweers, CyberFOX! — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 19:11:09 -0000

Greetings,
Mmmm...tasty long comment. :)

I live in Issaquah, not too far from Redmond/Seattle where smoking was legal for a long time (it only changed sometime between 1997 and 2000, iirc). There's still a smoker-culture here, and it's most visible, nasty, ugly side-effect. Spitting.

I don't like smoke, but I can deal with it in moderation. I find spitting a truly nasty habit, and the preponderance of having to avoid little nasty puddles correlates strongly with the number of people smoking in an area. It's been getting better in a lot of places in the Seattle/Eastside metroplex, but I work in Pioneer Square right now, where LOTS of people still smoke, and it's a minefield getting in to work.

Sorry, was venting.

I used to live in Silicon Valley. I love it there, it's a wonderful place. Work is plentiful for someone with my skills, and the geek culture is all-encompassing, comfortable, and pleasant. I've had recruiters overhear my friends and I talking tech at a restaurant, and come over and politely leave their business card for 'any of you that might be looking for a new job'.

I gave that up, and moved to Washington, because I can't live where 'brown is the new green' anymore. I can't live with having to have my car's air on 'recycle' all the time because the outside air stinks. You need some clouds to have a proper sunset... I missed sunsets, snow, and seasons. I want to have children, and I can't accept what California has to offer for education. I wanted to buy a house, for my wife, and future children to live in, and I can't afford what California has to offer for housing. Oh, and the California Franchise Tax Board is going to eat a lot of that raise you got yourself...

Despite all that, I often miss Silicon Valley; being surrounded by the warm embrace of the pervasive maker mindset is truly addicting, and almost inexplicable to people who haven't spent a lot of time there.

Still, to each their own, and for me I've found a better place for myself up here, in the emerald hills that you've abandoned. :) There's a good bit of that mindset that's rubbed off up here, if you frequent the right places. Enough to ease the itch, and keep me excited. Add it to the overwhelmingly better surroundings, and it's a Good Place.

I don't think smoking/non-smoking is the answer. I think surrounding yourself with people who love what they're doing is the answer. It brings more people who want to be part of that, and it builds a cycle. People talk about it, others want to see what it's like, they come, they visit, they realize how nice it feels to be surrounded by smart people, and how it ups your own game so you can feel like you're also part of the smart culture. Silicon Valley's been doing that for decades now, reinventing itself with every major revolution. Chips begat hardware begat software begat the internet begat content providers, with many interesting offshoots along the way.

Who knows what's next; but the people in Silicon Valley want to build things (maker mindset), and they love new things (neophilia). These two attributes mean that whatever the next step is, there'll at least be someone in SV working on it with a passion.

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Tao Takashi — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:52:33 -0000

Isn't the issue more that in Silicon Valley you have such a concentration of tech companies around which naturally attract the geeks? It's true that you hardly see anybody here with a laptop in a cafe (esp. in my place) but how is it actually outside Silicon Valley (never been to the US yet) or the bigger cities?

For me it's actually hard to meet geeks in my area esp. in the field of blogging or similar things. So sometimes I have the feeling that I am living in the wrong spot but in the end it still has it advantages ;-) What I actually do for meeting geeks now is to go inside Second Life and they are hanging around there everywhere ;-)
(actually London might be a good place for geeky stuff but there I dislike the cameras-everywhere thing ;-)

I actually doubt that it has anything to do with smoking. I dislike it when people smoke next to me but well, we're used to it (and I even did DJ for years and this is nothing where you really avoid smoking people).

It's probably also more a general cultural thing that you don't have the maker-feel around and there might also be missing incentives to do a startup and just try things (you know, you might fail...).

Regarding laptops in cafe's: Somehow (at least in my town) people are very reluctant to install e.g. wifi for various silly reasons.. Chains like Starbucks have it but for a far too high fee (plus I dislike their coffee but that's another story :-)

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Christopher Coulter — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:47:26 -0000

So? Lots of industries have hubs or epicenters...just think in terms of airline hubs.

If you’re a Film or Screenwriterish type outside of LA (or increasingly Vancover), it’s hard to get a job in the industry.

If you’re a magazineish media-bistro type outside of NYC (or increasingly Miami), it’s hard to get a job in the industry.

If you’re a national Lobbyist type outside of Wash DC, it’s hard to get a job in the industry.

If you’re a national Military contractor type outside of Pentagon City, it’s hard to get a job in the industry.

And so on and so forth...don't go Insider Valley Smug Elite...you want the widest possible audiences for thy podcasts...

Agree on the smoking issue tho...Sac and San Fran so breathe easy...

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Chris Wild — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:47:06 -0000

Simon... :)

Re: The challenge for Europe: keeping tech there instead of the valley

Simon — Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:29:00 -0000

Chris,

hmm ... I'm not going to win that argument till I find you a job.