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And Peter, I like that idea too. Could be very interesting indeed... although, almost by definition, many of us may never be around to see it happen. Oh well.
Um, any ideas on how we can get on this? I'm still doing fine now, but I would like to plan ahead.
http://www.podtech.net/scobleshow/technology/12...
http://www.ubois.com/wikiwiki.php?page=Contact
I recalled this one, as one tape from the HUGE cardboard box, back in my (now forlorn) capture-til-you-die Podtech era.
A bank might be a good idea.
Jamie
To enable everyone else to see it, try getting over yourself.
Society usually finds a way to preserve good works. The mediocre will wither away. It is the way of the world.
In the land of the mediocre however, the popular man is king. Online, many many "good works" may very well go un-noticed, due to the floods of mediocre ramblings (which I am really happy to read and contribute to). What is good is not always what is popular but what is popular is most likely to be retained as thousands and thousands of people read / copy it.
For now if anyone wants immortality I would still recommend hardcopy. The printed word has been around far longer than the digital. If someone can come up with a way to guarantee online (and backed up) storage for more than a hundred years I'd love to see it happen. For now though - if it's important I print it. If I want to publish something that my great grandkids can read - I'll publish a book. It can alwys be digitised later ;-)
Many libraries and archives, which have traditionally specialized in paper materials, are starting up institutional repositories for digital materials. DSpace, Fedora (not the Red Hat variety), and Digital Commons are some of the more common applications. Governments at the state and national level are also pursuing options for digital archiving. A few companies that specialize in records management are already selling digital archiving services, primarily to corporations -- I'm thinking of Iron Mountain, as that's the company I'm most familiar with. I don't know if anyone is selling these types of services to personal consumers.
It's fairly complicated to think about long-term digital archiving -- you have to consider issues like migrating materials to newer versions of applications or emulating older applications through virtualization, etc. There are graduate programs were you can study these issues -- my alma mater, the School of Information at the University of Texas at Austin, has a strong program -- and quite a few conferences devoted to the topic.
Why, then, this discussion on what you all want to do with someone else's site and writing?
Consider that what we have now is a gift, to be enjoyed and partaken of now--knowing that, someday, it will be gone. Appreciate the now, rather than fret over the future.
I don't think there are any "one size fits all" answers. However, I think that Robert's idea of paying a fee to have information made available on-line for a long period of time, say 100 years, is a good one.
There are technical problems with this though; and it's pretty difficult to beat words and images printed on paper as a long-term archival approach. Printed paper is probably the most well-proven long-term archival technology around. I certainly wouldn't trust tape, or DVD, or a hard drive attached to Windows or Linux or Solaris box, to be readable in 100 years.
It is a really fascinating idea though, and after a glass or two of Claret might lead to some Very Deep Thoughts Indeed.
Dave Winer can easily be kept around even after he’s dead.
Ah, the "eternal recurrence" idea that Pynchon played with in Against The Day? In Hollywood, don't they say "we need a George Clooney type" when George Clooney isn't available? Perhaps in the future we will need a Dave Winer type. Perhaps we have always needed a Dave Winer type, and always will...
I was going to mention Stephen Leacock as someone whose writings are, if not lost to history, then certainly not as popular as they should be. But reading a bit about him on Wikipedia, he begins to sound a bit like P.J. O'Rourke. Perhaps P.J. O'Rourke is our instantiation of the Stephen Leacock object class...
As an aside, if you ever need a good laugh, I highly recommend Leacock's Nonsense Novels. Perhaps lost to history, but saved up on Project Gutenberg.
Want to ensure immortality? Do something with more long term benefit to humanity.
Interesting, but I think that's possibly backwards: it's the people who were trying to benefit humanity who, as a side effect, became immortal.
Consider that what we have now is a gift, to be enjoyed and partaken of now–knowing that, someday, it will be gone. Appreciate the now, rather than fret over the future.
If I can channel FSJ for a moment: I honor the place where your Zen attitude and my bottle of Claret become one. Namaste. *hic*
Course in order to make it cost-effective all the info wouldn't be available online... While storage is cheap, storing 1TB+ of data for a user is going to be damned expensive for 100yrs.
Putting it on disk/tape, however, could probably be done for 1-2k - even by a startup...
Maybe we SHOULD have to lose one another here.
Maybe it will keep us human.
Maybe if we keep one another alive here, we'll soon be twittering along for a year before we realize someone's dead.
Maybe we can get rid of grieving altogether, get back to work, keep posting away, as long as we know that our dead friends' site has been preserved in plastic, encased in gold. That'd be super!
Maybe it's up to the family. Maybe they want to decide I was an asshole they want to rip down my site. Maybe they should have that choice.
Dave wants to be on vinyl: The best of Dave Winer, collector's edition, double CD - as if no dave will ever come again. Dave will come again. And again. We are a blip, no matter how many quotes, how many links. There is something honest in others keeping our history.
Let the business model of dead blogger books write itself--it doesn't need help from the top.
Our work belongs to our estates, doesn't it? Dave wants to plunk down a hundred grand to be sure he's always here, calling people names, calling for posses. Super. The rest of us -- the ones who can't afford the super deluxe gold coffin edition of blogging -- we win the prize: We get to disappear.
The guy with the most money and best algorithm wins. It has been ever thus. Old boss new boss. And so it goes.
When would a person's family need to get access to the info and why? With cord blood the answer is clear. Interesting concept.
If you crank out tedious self-involved commentary then you probably sit on your deathbed and bemoan the fact that your efforts will go unnoticed.
But let's put all concepts of quality or merit aside: it's a business opportunity for someone: "We Will Save Your Blog for As Long as You Wish".
If the business is structured well then the blogs will linger for years. You just need to create an account and invest in your future.
As I write these words, I have a little program running that's creating a mirror of a famous blogging site. The technology to clone web-sites is fully baked... what's NOT easy to establish is the trust of enough bloggers to fund the business of managing the "assets".
If someone does create a foundation to archive with more rigor than "archive.org" then most of us will be frustrated because they will probaly create a committee to decide what's actual worth saving... and that's so "old school": a meritocracy. A final exam that's graded pass/fail.
If you crank out tedious self-involved commentary then you probably sit on your deathbed and bemoan the fact that your efforts will go unnoticed and un-preserved. “Call for Willy Loman on the courtesy phone.”
But let’s put all concepts of quality or merit aside: it’s a business opportunity for someone:
“We Will Save Your Blog for As Long as You Wish”
If the business is structured well then the blogs will linger for years. You just need to create an account and invest in your future.
As I write these words, I have a little program running that’s creating a mirror of a famous blogging site. The technology to clone web-sites is fully baked… what’s NOT easy to establish is the trust of enough bloggers to fund the business of managing the “assets”. I use asset in the most liberal sense… if they are funded by the author then they meet the financial criteria of a liability… a committed obligation.
NOTE: $10,000 at money market rates produces about $300/year. You shouldn’t speculate with a trust asset but use a conservative, insured investment. But what about inflation, increased overhead costs, etc. The contract might be full of fine print to protect the supplier of such a service from future variables.
If someone does create a foundation to archive with more rigor than “archive.org” then most of us will be frustrated because they will probaly create a committee to decide what’s actual worth saving… and that’s so “old school”: a meritocracy. A final exam that’s graded pass/fail.
Do good work. Let history protect you… all else is vanity. I’m just sayin’.
In the novel A Canticle for Leibowitz, it is the Catholic Church that ends up saving all technological information after a nuclear war and subsequent Luddite, anti-technology uprising by the survivors.
There's a doomsday seed bank up in Norway. Maybe instead of preserving blog posts, we should be thinking of a similar repository of knowledge somewhere... not to put a Y2K survivalist bent on things; I just think it would suck if Something Bad Happened and nobody knew how to make antibiotics, or aspirin, or fire, but we did have multiple redundant emergency backup copies of everything that had ever been posted to Scripting News and icanhazcheezeburger.com. First things first, you know.
From there we should go to works of art. Not just great paintings, but film on decaying celluloid, old recordings, out of print books, the genome sequences of endangered species. I am a huge fan of the band Lush; they broke up only about 10 years ago and it's already difficult to find some of their recordings, despite them having been made in the digital age.
Once we have a "Memory Alpha" in place, then let's look at the blog posts... :)
I.e. I'm currently 33 years old, but I can go back and see the 32 year-old me (effectively dead and buried) any time simply by browsing my blog archive.
Kinda adds another dimention to the notion of immortality, IMHO. It's not just that I can live forever, but all my previous incarnations (as a younger man).
I need a drink now.
:-)
I appreciated the sentimentality of that notion, but the reality is that my kids won't have any interest in the things I played with. I always think of that scene in Back TO The Future 2 in the Cafe 80's "You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!"
By the same notion, I struggle to see how people would utilise the web work of today. Not that we should go about what we do feeling futile, at our best we're helping each other figure this thing out. But it is hard enough for thinking to stay relevant month to month, let along over 100 years.
Let's be glad for what we have now, and hope that our children's grand children have a better world and some photos of great, great grandpa smiling, surrounded by people he loved.