Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

richard Zake — Tue, 01 May 2007 14:19:42 -0000

I shot my first documentary with myself and another guy. It was on VHS with a on board mike except for the talking head. It was edited on a straight cuts only non-digital tape to tape machine. It won the Directors Prize at The Illinois Film & Video Festival & got on the David Wolper/IDA Student reel. NOt to brag because I have sort of allowed my career to go downhill but I have to say story is 90%. I go to Blockbuster and see these qo million dollar bore-fests and although it is even hard to make a bad movie, if you were going to get 10 million wouldn't you want to make one from the heart and if you don't have it your heart, get a screenplay from someone who has something to say.
Make films about what you know. But in the end I wished I had done a 90 minute film on this subject and shot it on 35mm. However in documentary , subjects tend to shut down in front of big crews.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Brad Fuller — Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:49:56 -0000

Don't quite agree with you, Mr. Scoble. And, it may be a matter of semantics. In particular, the question is the meaning of "production values." I see it more a function of the skills to create compelling content, not necessarily exorbitant costs and lengthy meetings tied to production.

I reference this blog and conversation in my blog about the state of podcasts and vlogs here:
http://bradfuller.com/blog/...

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

VinceP1974 — Wed, 28 Jun 2006 02:10:40 -0000

My only complaint about the work on C9, which is completely overshadowed by its positives, so please take this complain in persepective is the poor audio.

Its one of the reasons I'm not as eager to view videos there as I once was.

There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to hear someone because

1 - The microphone , assuming there is one, is no where near them

2 - Someone's shirt is making love to the microphone

3 - There's some god-awful static , hiss, or other noise in the background

4 - Scoble is laughing (at his own joke).
louder than the speaker who is trying to talk and ignore the inane distraction. (sorry :))

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

vdovault — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:20:45 -0000

Uh hello people...isn't it true that some of the 'production values' problem isn't due to a lack of whiz-bang geek toys (or a lack of proficiency in using them) but in the talents of the people themselves making them?!?! You know, old school things, like acting, voice-over work, music composition, script/screenwriting, editing, etc. You can't fully dispense with the importance of the meatware here.

If I go out and shoot a video on DV, no way is it going to be as 'good' as say what Ethan Hawke could do on DV (you can check out the film 'Chelsea Walls' if you're interested in the history of DV usage by the industry). I'm not trained in acting, voice work, scoring film or video and even if I've got the latest in DV cameras and editing suites etc plus what I thing is an interesting script, I'm going to have a heck of a time competing with pros who know these less technology dependent skills. Plus I don't have the cred (or should it be old media penetration and saturation) of someone like Ethan so I'm already at a dis advantage in the 'hit-getting' contest.

This is not to say that a 'production-values challenged' vlog doesn't have any value, but that maybe the playing field isn't as level as it should be (especially not once people with name recognition and old media credentials start messing around with the technologies).

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

InhaleExhale — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:08:50 -0000

Meant to say "Who is a researcher at the Interactive Telecommunications Program at NYU."

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

InhaleExhale — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:07:58 -0000

Here's a vlog by a guy who teaches programming. The vlog is more the cool interactive stuff that can be done with programming, rather than a how-too, but it has links to his programming syllabus, and the videos are nifty.

http://www.shiffman.net/cat...

The producer of the vlog is Daniel Shiffman who is a researcher at the Interactive Telecommunications Program at ITP.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Verdi — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:48:36 -0000

I think the point is that content will always trump production values. This is what big media is worried about. As an individual, I can't compete with Hollywood budgets but, if I'm making something designed for more than just family and friends, I can compete with a good idea. How many 100 million dollar films have everything but a good idea?

The other side of this is that who you are talking to matters. If I put up a video of my kids, I don't expect anyone but my parents to be interested. For them it's a kick ass video even if it's a little shaky or the audio isn't great.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Jeff — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:46:39 -0000

Solid production values can and should coexist with the passion. I don't shoot photos of friends for anyone but me, but I want them to be the best quality possible. It shows pride in your work, and more importantly, makes your content digestion go down smoother.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

meekon5 — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:43:55 -0000

Vlog and Blog put the means to create back in the hands of the masses. I write (blog, and poetry) and hope to vlog. Without the finance to produce big budget mainstream film vlog is an opportunity to create and see what reaction occurs.
Similar with blogging, I write to see what reaction I can engender from a potential audience. I have read all sorts of advice on increasing traffic to publicise my blog. I write (I hope) with a fairly high standard of production, trying to remain coherent and interesting. I couldn’t afford to be published many other ways. I read many blogs using the “txt” lexicon (which just give me a headache) that I see no point in even returning to. But there is the measure of the standard. There is the measure of the whole movement. It is all self criticising. If you publish anything and no-one visits or comments then you soon become bored and move on to something else or re-asses your style. If you can afford the production values and want to use them, why not use them. It doesn’t mean that the end product is any better than Joe Bloggs vlogging from his bedroom every Thursday night.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

PJ at Knowing Art — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 04:34:34 -0000

I admit I check out Rocketboom now and then. They are rolling in ad $ but I think she keeps a TI 99/4a on her desk as a prop. I get a kick out of that--I had one as a kid, with the speech synth on the side!

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Neuromancer — Mon, 26 Jun 2006 04:00:36 -0000

Hmm

Ime with the quality crowd some of the audio quality in podcasting is dire a couple of basic shures and a decent soudcard and a baby mixer wont break the bank.

Oh and lives notch filter is great for killing nasty mains hum.

also to do serious video you may well be looking at 2-3 cameras if you want to cover an interviewer and the subject plus posibly a wide shot.

The prosumer sonys are only 2-3 k which is the minimum I would consider using for a company doing vloging.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Kristine — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 21:35:48 -0000

It's surprising how much I can learn from this blog. Between the comments, content, and links I'd have it made if I knew how to use a computer. Production, content, Video Art(VART?), at least I'm not giving up, and allowing myself that learning curve. I could use some feed back on my last post. Not the site it's junked. This was with a logitech and movie maker. Plus, I didn't infringe on another artist's rights.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Trevor Cook — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:49:21 -0000

I can't believe that people actually think that the issue is production values. As if being good at something and taking time and care with it and trying to make it as good (for your audience) as possible is actually an evil, corporate thing to do. I've dumped a lot of podcast feeds because even though the content was promising the lack of quality (particularly varying sound levels) made listening to them unbearable. I mostly listen to public radio stuff from around the world now - the content is great and the production value is high. The other good source of stuff is taped events like speeches. Anyone who thinks its cool to listen to unscripted (and how are you doin?) stuff has got way too much time on their hands.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Guy — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 19:26:08 -0000

Hah. You know what's funny? This reminds me of something entirely different. When I was a kid, I was an avid skateboard fan. I couldn't skate to save my life but I loved watching my friends do it and we all loved watching skate videos.

Let me tell you something about 80s skateboarding videos. They absolutely sucked. They were horrendous, shaky handheld camera affairs with grainy pictures and crappy resolution (yes! Just like vidblogs ;)). Proper cameras and editing equipment were expensive and few skateboarding companies really had the people in-house that knew how to use them. We didn't mind, it was simply the best they could provide at the time. So the quality was dodgy, you could hardly recognize the skaters, we paid a ridiculous price for the tapes, but it was still skateboarding. We didn't mind.

Now it's 2006 and guess what? There's still skateboarding videos, but they're different now. The subject hasn't changed, it's still people doing what they love doing. But the quality has improved a 10000-fold. Equipment and software has become readily available, why not use it? And as a consumer, I've changed. If it doesn't look good from the start, I will fast forward it. If it doesn't look good further in, click - it dissapears. Why? With the current products available, noone has to make a shitty skateboarding video anymore. If you do, it's because you're lazy, not because you're the cool underdog who'se rebelling against the man.

What am I trying to say with this whole comment? Crappy production value is okay, as long as you realize it's because you have no other choice due to time constraints/money/work/etc. But when you do have the possibility to make things look better, and you're still using that excuse, you're hiding.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Cali Lewis — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:57:52 -0000

Using podcasting to express yourself is an incredible thing, and one that should not be dismissed. But spending time with the goal of quality is something people appreciate. It's why the iPod has market share. Design takes time. Not a committee, just time. Our show is one where we spend hours to produce minutes of video. That's not hours of shooting and editing, that's hours of researching, planning, and writing because we care about entertaining our audience.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Richard j Smith — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 15:31:46 -0000

Ok, So my biggest complaint about some of the vidcasts that I watch is format. we have .wmv, .mov and m4v many more to name. I sometimes like to watch vidasts on my PDA which in most cases only supports .wmv. I think we need to consider what is the base format like mp3 is for podcasting. Or concider having .mov and .wmv if you are going to do video. Just my two cents. That way you may have even more viewers if you do multiple formats for all systems.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

andy Mac — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 14:55:09 -0000

If its not at a decent standard I move on quickly - however interesting it may be its not worth the effort.

But a key thing you should be thinking about is the future value of the material you create. If its badly recorded (shaky camera, poor sound quality) it has no value in ten years time for a tv show or xyz medium yet to be invented.

Your pension may be hidden away in some of the material you create today (its just that at this moment you can't know what will pay out in the end).

Its how old school photographers and film-makers worked...

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Christopher Coulter — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:47:15 -0000

I love hearing about these useless arguments at conferences — they keep the boring people too busy to make movies.

Ohmigosh. Quote of the Week. :)

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Dmad — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:45:35 -0000

Did you even read that NTY link you referenced? It's not talking about videoblogging (I'm going to take a shower, now. I hate referencing that term.), it's talking about "viral video", which are two completely different things in my mind. Youtube seems to be a medium that allows people to show their goofy movies, something kids and others have been doing ever since the Super 8 movie camera was invented. The only thing we have no is the ability for advertisers to try to ride along side the popular downloads. And why are those downloads popular? Hmmm..I dunno...maybe because they are well done, well edited and fun to watch, as opposed to some nattering dweeb bloviating about some unimportant subject? Just a guess.

Oh, and getting back to the "production question", did you even happen to read the first paragraphs of that article:

Plan: Think about where you’re shooting from and where the action is.
Edit: Keep the action interesting; only include what’s essential.
Frame: Get closer to what you are filming so that viewers can see detail.

Please don't tell me you are defining vblogging as any video that is put on the internet to be downloaded.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Nick Douglas — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:31:08 -0000

When I shot a comedy in college, we used a webcam with no external mic and fixed it up with a semi-legal copy of Adobe Premier.

It was awful. Could hardly hear anyone, video was grainy, soundtracking and voiceover constantly drowned out sound. And it brought down the house.

Because we didn't waste our time talking to a bunch of other filmmakers about production values. Instead we made something clever.

I love hearing about these useless arguments at conferences -- they keep the boring people too busy to make movies.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Dmad — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 12:27:22 -0000

Still harping on the $100,000 salary issue? Are you really that bitter about it? I guess we now know for sure why you left. You were there 3 years? Obviously then, MS didn't see the value it got from your Channel 9 duties and your off hours blogging to put a "face on Microsoft" as being worth more than $100,000 to them. Which is a very interesting commentary when you place it up against your perceived worth to MS.

As for the "production" issue. Well, on the one hand I guess al-Queda is able to get its point across with low-quality videos. (Nick Berg, etc). Is that the level you are aspiring to? I'm not sure "committees" are required for good, high quality production videos. Spielberg was able to turn our some pretty good stuff while he was in film school. I don'think he had a committee for that.

You're fooling yourself if you think quality doesn't matter, particulary if you want to be making money at the end of the day. Your message will get lost in the distraction of the poor quality as people will be focused on how horrible the production is. Now if you want to be a parody of yourself and people watch and listen BECAUSE of how horrible it is, I guess that could be good entertainment value. Sort of like the old SCTV show. That might work. I don't think that is what you are going for, though. How much extra work does it take to make sure you are well editied and well scripted? Sounds like you don't want to put in the effort.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Christopher Coulter — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:56:48 -0000

Production values require committees?

Not always...and usually only with dsyfunctional organizations (not much a surprise at Microsoft).

Production values require TALENT and know-how.

I turn my Events/Weddings/Bar and Bat Mitzvahs/Corporate Marketing Rot shoots into works of Hollywood art, and I am only one person out of two. And I do it fast too, (thanks Ultimate S 2). All Hail Douglas Spotted Eagle (my guru of sorts).

Poor quality only means poor quality. You can blog without knowing how to write. You can vblog without knowing the basics of production, handheld shaky cam with bad audio in tow. Heck, freedom. But the better you write, and the better your production values the more attention you will get. Quite simple, yes?

Channel 9 is niche. Some lower two-thirds, some serious editing, with some DECENT audio, and narrational VO's, with a Steadicam feel...well you might have gotten MORE of an audience. I could have turned that place around, single-handedly, and that's no idle boast.

Your on10 is much better, but then it's headachey MTV jump-cut short attention span, pointless stupid geek tricks bugs me to no end, makes my teeth hurt. But then I am not the target audience, so can't fault them for 'style'.

Nothing WRONG with the smallish Indy's taking on Hollywood if you will, but the first and foremost consideration is always (and will always be) quality.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Robert Scoble — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:26:47 -0000

Rebort: sorry, you're missing what's going on here. Emma's parents would never have been able to get her on a cable access channel. This is much deeper and broader than that. Not to mention that I don't have a cable access channel to distribute my crap on.

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Conn Ó Muíneacháin — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:25:10 -0000

Take a moment to consider audio quality from the perspective of the listener. What do podcasts give me? Choice. I can choose from a world full of content - and I can choose when and where I want to consume it.

Unfortunately, "when and where" is most often while driving, on public transport, or walking noisy streets. And if I can't hear it, I exercise my choice: "Next!"

It's not about being "fancy". If I can't hear your podcast, I won't cry over it. There is more quality content out there than I can ever hope to consume. "Next!"

Re: Production values debate breaks out during videologger session

Rebort — Sun, 25 Jun 2006 10:28:00 -0000

Saying production values don't matter in video is like saying good writing doesn't matter in an article or an essay. No matter the medium, you need to be articulate.

What so-called videoblogging is doing is recreating cable access crap on an extremely large scale. Nothing on the 150 professional cable channels? Great. Now you've got 150,000 cable access shows to choose from.

Wheeeeeee!