Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Brad — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:46:14 -0000

I like the idea of a calendar about which you can organise everything..Rather like whats available in Outlook. It's mentioned here in comments..but alas, i'm unable to find it...Anyone ?

thanks,

Brad

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Sanjay Kalra — Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:32:59 -0000

Robert, do you think that small companies should stop trying - because consumers will only use it if it comes from giants like MS, Google or Yahoo. Historically, that's not correct - all great innovations have come from small companies in last couple of decades. MS itself was a small company that challenged existing companies like Digital Research and won the OS game. Recently you can think of ICQ, MySpace, Skype and tons of other examples.

Now you may be right about these small companies survining as independent companies in the long run - acquisition by larger companies seems to be the current trend. But that doesn't mean the products launched by these small companies will not become popular with very large user bases

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Christian Burns — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:38:54 -0000

I am a writly user, but I asked for just one feature before they were aquired, The ability to post to multiple blogs. Now that Google has them I am sure they will only let you "Blog This" for new users.

So when I saw that Zoho lets you blog, I am in baby! Mind you my wife and I use the same computer posting to multiple blogs with multiple logins. Thank you Zoho!

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Scott Royall — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:55:05 -0000

Success isn't about who has the best idea. If it was, OS/2 would've won. Success is convincing the most people that they need what you have. That's certainly what powered the success of Microsoft's empire, and Apple's Ipod. Success is therefore a matter of marketting.

I have found myself in the medical software business since Shell Oil opted to move their IT operations to Malaysia. I am disabled with Cerebral Palsy, and can only talk with computer assistance. I had to develop my own software to speak because my Shell employers found none of the commerically available products acceptable. Even now, ten years later, my software makes the stuff Dr. Stephen Hawkins uses sound sick by comparsion. Yet, I have come to the sad conclusion that I'll probably never sell a single copy.

I say that because the people who really need my software will never know it exists. The people who vet such things don't see enough disabled people in working environments to ever think they need real quality speech software. Meanwhile, I get poorer and poorer. It takes money to make money.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Larry — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:48:14 -0000

I'm not using a web-based office product - ever. I use an online CMS at work and I can't begin to tell you how many times people have been writing (sometimes for hours) only to have their browser crash and they lose everything.

Even if it had an autosave, there's just no reason to be doing it over the web. I can terminal to my work PC so it isn't like I need my files on a server somewhere.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Christopher Coulter — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:50:26 -0000

Not a prayer...

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

macnewbie — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 05:05:38 -0000

I could waffle this out into several hundred words but there are several examples of this happening recently, the biggest by far is MySpace, they were a small company (once :) and "normal users" definately use that service, in their millions.

Would I go up against an already established Google/MS/Yahoo service as a small company? Hell no, but if you can be different then I think you still have a good chance.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Cliff — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 04:56:38 -0000

Hi, I am Cliff from EditGrid. I want to invite you to take a look to EditGrid. We are taking a different way as zoho or other online office. We are concentrate to do our spreadsheet instead of developing a portfolio of service, and provide the best services of all online spreadsheets.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Torley Linden — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 04:56:33 -0000

This is fascinating: I was a relatively early user of Zoho Writer, and since got a Writely invite and have been using it more. I haven't touched Zoho in weeks, particularly because it has some nasty bugs that interfere with its operation in Firefox. These put me up--but much to the credit of the AdventNet folks making it, esp. Arvind, they contacted me personally for feedback. I really appreciated it! :)

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Robert Scoble — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:47:29 -0000

Cody: you're a nerd. Hope that helps.

Anyway, let's let Google settle this one. Search for "Geek Blogger" and I don't find your name. http://www.google.com/searc...

In fact, search for "geek" and you'll see I'm #24 & #25. http://www.google.com/searc...

Since Google is now the arbiter of all things cultural my answer is: too bad.

By the way, what an elitist attitude you have! So someone needs to grok Linux just to be a geek? Wonderful. And people say +I'm+ arrogant? Whew!

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Simon Brocklehurst — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 02:26:03 -0000

I agree with posters 8 (Ryan Walters) and 25 (Simon Phipps). The issues they raise may be the very reasons that allow small players to become big in the future.

With various of their computer systems, and in various ways, the Google, Yahoo and Microsoft guys all go out of their way to try to lock users in. One reason Microsoft got big was because it made it super-easy to *import* data from third party apps, but hard to export it really well. In 2007, this is no longer good enough. My prediction is that the big players of the future will get big by making it easy for people to export their data.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Zoli Erdos — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:01:19 -0000

I forgot to add, you are right, "Microsoft Office ended up kicking ass" for having all components, but let's just remember the early years, you had Word and Excel not talking to each other, moving data was a major pain... it was not a Suite, just individual applications. (In fact I used Works back then, it was a hands-down winner for me due to the integration...).

Anyway, that's exactly the point the Zoho guys have not missed, first delivering all components of a Suite, then integrating them - these will not be point solutions for long.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Zoli Erdos — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 21:57:20 -0000

Robert, Zoho is not a financially shaky startup that may or may not be around tomorrow. They are part of Adventnet, a company that grew for 10 years organically (no VC's) from nothing to 500 or so employees and dozens of networking, security...etc. products. That was the "old boring (but moneymaker) product line, and I think they made a smart move to brand all the Office 2.0 stuff as Zoho - fresh, new, fashionable :-)

So I don't think longevity is an issue with them, which will really be important when we decide to trust them with all our online data, not just newly created documents - they will soon have ZohoDrive. While on the subject, they are the only ones with a complete office suite, including the Excel and PowerPoint replacements. Yes, I know, functionally just a subset, yadayada, but you know what I mean .. for the 90% of us who use 10% of the functionality, it's good enough:-) Btw, they also have calendar as part of Virtual Office (yes, the Outlook replacement), Creator, a CRM-package, Polls, and I don't even know what else.

I have not heard of them until half a year or so ago, but they appear to be a formidable force quite bent on being the Web App provider for small businesses and individuals.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

TheBizofKnowledge — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:08:20 -0000

I consider myself a normal user, and the only way I'll ever try a non-Yahoo/MS/Google product is if it has very strong word-of-mouth. This happened when I switched from Firefox to IE a couple years ago. When it comes to word processing, there would have to be many compelling reasons for me to give up MS Word.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Gerard — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:58:17 -0000

Nice to see that a lot of people think the same as I do. There is nothing wrong with being the small guy. There are many small companies that make something sweet and special and thus carve our a living for themselves. Of course I do not expect an ex Microsoft employee to understand that.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

macbeach — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:27:17 -0000

"Aaron, I’m not even sure about that. After all, I’m already a Gmail user, I’m playing with Calendar and soon will get locked into that, so I’ll probably stick with Google’s word processor even if it has a few less features than others.

It’s why Microsoft Office ended up kicking ass over the other competitors. "

Oh my. Scoble, I'm starting to agree with you more and more. One of us is changing :)

Incumbency is a big advantage, and for the use that MOST people make of computers, it is the ONLY advantage.

That is why I poo-pooed the idea that 2005 was "the year of Linux on the desktop" (ditto for 2004, 2003, 2002, ...)

But resentments DO build up when a vendor consistently fails to deliver things users want (or consistently delivers things that users DON'T want). I was probably one of the first few thousand people to sign up for a Yahoo account, and only a few years later did I learn that with a Yahoo ID I got free e-mail (either that or I had just forgotten about it). The web interface seemed pretty slick at first. You could also download messages with a standard POP program, and I think at one point they were giving away 15-20 meg of storage which at the time seemed enormous.

I was so sold on the Yahoo brand that I got a Yahoo pager, hosted domains with them, and switched to using them as my ISP when I was still on dial-up. But it wasn't Google that got me to switch, it was Yahoo...

They changed the rules on e-mail storage so that you suddenly got much less space unless you wanted to pay for an account. The Yahoo pager, a deal with RIM, was discontinued after only a year, leaving me with a useless device that I had paid several hundred dollars for. Their hosting service as well as their ISP service were also third party deals (as in: the third party does all the work, takes all the risk, Yahoo puts their name on it). The ISP had serious billing problems. They cancelled my account having never sent me a bill. The domains hosting was pretty good, but it seemed that every 6 months or so the third-party company was either changed or the services changed in some dramatic way. The consistency I would have expected with the Yahoo name simply was a myth.

Their initial response to Gmail, which was to start giving away space again, was pathetic. When they went to a Gig, Gmail went to two, and Google made it fairly clear that they would not take second place to any of the majors when it came to giving away Inbox space. Next Yahoo (and Microsoft) promised AJAX based webmail. That was what, almost two years ago? I just got mine working on Hotmail last week. On Yahoo I'm still waiting.

Users (at least this user) have a long memory about being played for suckers by vendors they trust.

I think competition is good, and I wish more users were willing to try alternatives when they do arrise, but the fact is, many users stick with what they have even if it causes them daily grief. They remember how hard it was to learn DOS, then OS/2 then Windows, then Wordperfect and on and on and they have no desire to repeat that learning process unless there is some fundamentally new capability that comes with it. Having your stuff online, all the time is that capability, and I suspect that most users are quite willing to give up Wing-Ding fonts and a lot of other silly stuff to be able to seamlessly share things among he computers they use, with family members, etc. Sooner or later that concept will find its way into the workplace.

We are finally reaching the point where users don't have to upgrade their PCs every two years just to do ordinary things Let the battleground go back to server space where it belongs (and has belonged for a long time) and let users view their computers as appliances that "just work" no matter what OS they are running. Windows, OS X and Linux all have the equivalent of Notepad (except OS X's will format Word documents just fine, and I think the all incorporate spellchecking now) and most peoples only use for a database are the back-ends to their Content Management Systems and so forth, maintained and backed-up by people paid to do just that.

I pronounce 2007 as the year of the "who cares desktop". It's about time!

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Simon Phipps — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:15:03 -0000

Just checked it out and they offer broad document import and export facilities (including OpenDocument), so they get a nod from me - they give me the freedom to leave, so I may well have the confidence to stay. These days that's the precondition, ahead of features (assuming basic feature hygiene).

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

scott — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:13:18 -0000

As long as a word processor supports ODF it should not matter that the software was not built by a large company. As long as my data is in a portabe non-proprietary standard format, the big companies won't be able to lock me in to using their tool.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Sridhar Vembu — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:13:17 -0000

Todd, have you looked at Zoho Creator http://zohocreator.com which provides an online application creation tool? We are marrying database and scripting on that one.

Sridhar Vembu

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Michael Cage — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:03:09 -0000

>But, in the word processor business? That’s a lot harder.

If the little guys (or the big guys, for that matter) think they are in the word processor business, they'll be crushed. Google is in the attention business at the moment ... and there is a logical place for a word processor to play a role there. There are many *other* business models that can also use an online, collaborative word processor to drive the outcomes of their markets.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Colin — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:55:41 -0000

I think Roberts point is dead on. If it somes down to functionality vs reliability for document storage then reliability on storage will generally win.

An interesting one though is Wordpress. Somehow over the last few months they have gone to dead reliable in my mind, and I am less concerned about doing my own personal backup. My confidence may be misplaced, but thats how I feel. So can Zoho develop that confidence level - if so, they have a winner.

I keep thinking about Roberts key point - how the small things get missed, such as the importance of search, back 7 years ago. This could be one of those situations.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Todd Blanchard — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:48:57 -0000

Not sure about word processors - I don't quite get that - I can always find a text processor on the machine I have.

OTOH, DabbleDB is the bomb - like MS Access only better. This is the killer desktop to web app for me.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Robert Scoble — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:40:05 -0000

>And? Prior to gmail, did you not use something else?

I still do. It's called Hotmail. From Microsoft. Lots of smaller companies tried to do free email too. Which is sort of why I came to this place.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Cody — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:38:22 -0000

Scoble, you're not a geek. I'm a geek, so don't lump yourself in with me. You don't rip apart old computers and install FreeNAS (based on FreeBSD) to make a NAS, and you don't have an OpenBSD SSH/Proxy server running in your house, and you couldn't live without a GUI. You don't attend LUGs (Linux User Groups), and you don't write software and/or scripts. You don't know how to install a LAMP system, and I could go on and on and on.

I mean, you've worked at Microsoft talking to people about Microsoft products. That does NOT make you a geek.

Re: Online wordprocessor updated, but does it have a chance at survival?

Robert Scoble — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:38:10 -0000

>So Robert, if you have to be a big fish to swim in today’s technology pond, what were you thinking when you left MS for a start-up?

In the content business I believe I can come up with something unique that the big players aren't doing.

But, in the word processor business? That's a lot harder.