Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Nokia’s touchiest week

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Sesli Sohbet — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 07:40:58 -0000

very thanks for article

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Belletti — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:41:19 -0000

Barcelona is not Spain

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

babecast — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:56:11 -0000

The bad part about the iphone is that you can't choose your telecom provider.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Rob Scott — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:15:37 -0000

I'll be the first to say that Nokia has lost its way when it comes to user experience compared to Apple. Of course, I'd say that about every other mobile phone company compared to Apple. Let's face it, Apple is #1 when it comes to user experience. However, Nokia and Apple are in different classes when it comes to manufacturing. It is patently silly to count Nokia out just because they are slow to keep up on the high end.

The challenge will be for the rest of the mobile phone industry to take advantage of the ground Apple (and to a lesser extent Google) have broken in breaking the grip of the carriers. Until the latter have been marginalized and a DSL-like race-to-the-bottom has happened, the data-enabled experience that iPhone (and G1, etc.) brought to the high end won't happen for the majority of subscribers (and pre-payers!)

This means that Nokia has at least a good year to get "touch" right. Just because iPhone will continue to lead in user experience doesn't knock Nokia or anyone but the weakest players out of the market.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Charbax — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:42:09 -0000

A couple of "big" things I know Nokia are working on:

1. Nokia's next generation Symbian platform. I don't expect this to work out for them though. But for sure, Nokia will have invested billions into it, it'll have one-touch applications installer and stuff like advanced UI and stuff like that. I don't think Nokia should work on anything else then Android, since Android is open source and free, it makes no sence to persist with Symbian in my opinion, even though Nokia wants to open source and give the next generation Symbian away for free.

2. Nokia N900 series, which uses the Texas Instruments Cortex processor, which is the most powerful ARM embedded processor, many times more powerful then an iphone processor. It can capture HD video, load websites much faster, play advanced 3D games like Quake3. See Archos 5 and Open Pandora for examples of how awesome the Texas Instruments Cortex ARM processor is. I don't expect Nokia will surpass either Archos nor Open Pandora project with their next generation tablet, so it probably won't have good storage and no good multimedia features. But it's to be seen.

A few things Nokia should work on but they probably aren't:

- Pocketable E-Ink and LED dual-screen for pocketable Kindle HSDPA replacement.

- WiFi Mesh devices to expand and improve WiFi usage, for collaboration and VOIP stuff.

- White Spaces devices and WiMax. Totally unlocked, open-source and free.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

down2thethread — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:30:59 -0000

need tech support?

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Jeff Crites — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:29:37 -0000

I'm sure there were those who looked at GM's 'insurmountable market share lead' years ago and thought there was no way they'd be in the position they are today. But Honda and Toyota, steadily, have done what Apple has done ... they've become as Robert puts it, "thought leaders" in the automotive industry, and their products over the years has inspired an army of passionate consumer evangelists.

Nokia has some wonderful products ... I have an N95 and nothing compares to its video capability ... but it can't touch the iPhone in terms of bringing the 'full web experience to life'. If the iPhone had the video and picture ability of my N95, I'd trade for it in an instant. Right now, I feel like I need both to have everything I want in terms of mobile capability.

I agree with Robert. Nokia better 'bring it' this week (and every week from here on out) and understand that if it wants to take a fat share of the North American market, it needs to create revolutionary products that inspire passion. On a side note, ask a hundred people in the U.S. what 'Ovi' is and 98 won't have a clue. It's Nokia's 'portal to the web', and it hasn't caught on here. Perhaps it's because Ovi means 'door' in Finnish, and the translation, like the portal itself, is lost on us. Nokia has a lot of work to do to make itself known in North America, the way it's known around the world, as a mobile leader.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

cwoodson — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:57:00 -0000

We have no doubt that Nokia is announcing a touchscreen of some sort. It better be a resistive screen where the user can use their fingernail, finger tip, stylus, etc versus a capacitive screen where the finger pad must be used. This has already proven to be disastrous for the HTC G1 and now the extremely overrated Blackberry Storm.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

gery teague — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:05:56 -0000

The thing that matters:

It always boils down to making money. How do I feed my kids, etc. So, for phone manufacturers it has always been who can come out with the coolest new phone? Who can offer the coolest new service? Aka, how can we follow old school ways of doing things to make more money?

Apple followed that same old rule, how can we make more money but they did it in a revolutionary way. Not an evolutionary way. How can you tell? Well, their screen is worse, their camera is worse and their phone's capabilities are far behind many of their competitors. BUT they did it all in a new way. They focused on user experience.

So, now companies like Nokia are having to re-think what they've been doing. Many of them thought they could solve this problem by repackaging an iphone looking UI, but that's not it either. It's about the user experience. How can I, as a user be happy with my phone? Well, phones are moving in the way of computers now (Nokia is already ahead here), phones should be able to take good pictures, and good video (again, Nokia is ahead), but what about HOW those programs operate? What about how snappy the response time is or how fluid it works? This is where Nokia has missed the boat. I purchased an e90 way back when, and it was cool, people were always asking if they could see the server that I carried around with me. However, the problem was, using the phone sucked. It was no fun. It was not enjoyable.

So, Nokia... can you show us that you can think differently? I doubt it, not because I want to doubt it... I want Nokia to rock the house on this one. The problem is... their so closely tied to their symbian OS. Which is an anchor around their necks. They need to make the user experience more fun, and more personal... I just don't see how they can do this with the symbian OS.... we'll see I guess.

Best of Luck Nokia.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

DanT — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:57:36 -0000

What you guys do not take into account is that the global possible market for a $200 phone + a $70 month plan (or a $700 phone with a smaller contract) is not that big. For most of the citizens of this world mobile internet is just something cool, but not really useful. I work in IT, in fact even web development, and even I can still manage without mobile internet (i do have mobile internet, but really need it less than once a month). And paying $700 just for fun (every year or once every two years ... when switching to new phone models) plus internet plans ... hmmm ... that means you pay more than $1000 a year just to have a cool phone. If that phone does not help you earn at least $5.000 per year, that is probably a bad business. May be fun, but a lot of phones provide fun. And iPhone has serious limits even on multimedia, by not providing a decent camera, video, a radio, flash support, a stereo bluetooth headset possibility, MMS, etc. So a device costing $1000 per year (assuming you buy it with a full plan) for sure is not for everybody when half of the world dont even make that kind of money in a whole year (Africa, India, China, some poorer asian countries or south american have toghether a lot more than half of the world population). Even in Europe's developing countries, where average salaries are about 6000-12000$ per year (like Russia, Romania, Bulgaria and even Hungary, Poland), that kind of phone is a luxury for the average citizen. So the countries where maybe 10-20% of the population afford buying this phone are USA, Canada, Australia, Japan, Western Europe. Those togheter have less than 20% of the world population. So the real market is 10-20% from 20% of the world population, so about 2 to 4% of the world citizens. From those a good part dont want/need an iPhone for personal reasons (not liking it, attachement to other brands, etc) ... that leaves maybe 1% of the world population as potential customers. That is about 60 million citizens. Meanwhile, Nokia sold more than one billion phones and will keep selling a lot because owning a Nokia can cost you 10 times less than an Iphone (I mean a simple phone with simple plans). The real competitor for Nokia is Samsung ... Apple competes only with the high priced Nokias.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Engago Team — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:41:38 -0000

Microsoft has showed many times you don't need to be the first on the market.
Microsoft has showed many times their presence in retail stores is decisive.

Nokia can be late in the market, but their brand and presence is important.
Nokia and Samsung are present in all the retail stores in Europe and Asia (Nokia not in Japan).

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

frederic sidler — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:12:36 -0000

No other phone maker will surpass the iPhone. Why ? Because Apple is the only company that succeed to transform a buyer into a vendor. And this makes a huge difference.

An iPod/iPhone user is proud of it and proud to show it to everybody. That transform him into an Apple vendor. Apple store are great, but Apple vendors everywhere is even better.

I have never seen any Blackberry, Android, Nokia guy demo his phone to a regular user (except in phone shop).

That's it !

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

steve clayton — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 16:32:13 -0000

Robert

I'm also shocked at the speed and passion around the iPhone but market share is a big word (well, two words) that need to be used carefully. To ues you own words, this is more about thought leadership than market share. the challenge for Apple not is to turn thought leadership *in to* market share.

You're right, the world has changed and the web often listens to thought leadership but that's very different from market share

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

DanT — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:30:18 -0000

Saying that Nokia will lose clients to Apple and RIM is like saying that Toyota will lose clients to Porsche. There are too few common clients ... Porsche is a niche brand, the same way Apple and RIM are. Toyota will keep selling million of good and cheap(er) cars, while Porsche will have a niche market ... and there is no way they can compeat with Toyota on 15-20.000$ cars.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

JulesLt — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:07:45 -0000

To clarify - I'm not saying KDE/Qt is a weak platform compared to native Mac or Windows development - just that using any x-platform toolkit is a weaker choice, while on KDE, Qt IS the native choice.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

JulesLt — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:06:01 -0000

It response to David Geller - the moment I thought Nokia had 'got' the iPhone was the moment they acquired Trolltech. It showed that they understood the important thing was to own a software development platform.

Now Qt may have some weaknesses compared to native application development on the Mac or Windows (it is the native platform for KDE Linux), but from what I've read up, it looks like a good clean modern platform.

I also suspect that many C++ developers will find Qt a faster transition than Cocoa/Obj-C, because it allows them to maintain their 'way of thought' (regardless of whether it may be more effective to use a more dynamic language).

One last thought - this can't just be a phone. It has to be a platform for all their devices. Otherwise it's just the N-Gage, or the N800 all over again - it doesn't matter if you have dominant market force if most of the sales are (like my Nokia phone) a simple candy-bar phone. It's the market size of the platform, not the company, which matters to developers - and that is how Apple are punching way above their weight here.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Intosh — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:39:58 -0000

Nokia just needs to be patient and make sure to get the formula right. Once it gets the OS and UI comparably attractive and efficient as the iPhone's, this 800 pounds gorilla of mobile phones will flood the market with smartphones of all shapes and sizes... and prices.

By the way, the claim that "Apple has gotten HUGE market share among enterprise users" based on that ad hoc "survey" at Salesforce.com conference sounds too ludicrous to me.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Chris Mueller — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:18:05 -0000

It is a shame that some companies are playing catch up rather than being innovative

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Alex Kerr — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:41:12 -0000

> Nokia is behind in experience.
True, but not really that far behind. And not far enough behind to make it worth sticking with iPhone when you're sick of it's restrictions, poor hardware spec, and poor hardware implementation as increasing numbers of people are. And Symbian/S60's folder based UI structure can have advantages over iPhones pages and pages of icon screens.

> will include things like accelerometers (like the iPhone has).
You do know Nokia Nseries have had accelerometers since before iPhone, and still do, and they're very good, right...?

Finally, iPhone sales to date = 13 million. Symbian (mostly Nokia) sales end of June 08 = 226 million across 249 different phone models, so I'd guess around 250 million (or a quarter of a billion if you prefer) to date. Kind of puts things in perspective, no...?

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Guest — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:41:07 -0000

The phone doesn't matter as much as the service plan. My plan is about $8/month.

If you fiddle with this gadget in your pocket all day long, don't you think that's a little looney? Sorry to spoil your cyborg fantasy.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

DevlinD — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:41:28 -0000

I don't think just coming out with a device on it's own is going to make Nokia matter. They need to promote the entire package, software, distribution, and hardware the same way Apple and Android have done. It's just a tough spot for them because practically nobody develops for Symbian which makes the hundred of millions Nokia paid for them seem very misplaced. Apple and RIM are the most useful because they offer great software and hardware, and once Android gets a decent handset out there (hopefully that will be Motorola's in 2009) then that will be a third major player and that makes this space VERY crowded. Is there really room for a 4th independent mobile platform to be a success?

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Finnsense — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:37:28 -0000

I spoke with someone at Nokia and asked what did she think they will do if Apple keeps gobbling market share in the smartphone space. She said they'd just copy the best bits like the always do. Remember they were late to the party with thin phones and with clamshells. She also said when they do get it right, whether it's 2009, 2010 or 2011, they will win. Why? They have better technology and more efficient processes. Where they fail at the moment is the OS but that's the only place they are failing. That's nowhere near as hard to rectify as processes that are reputed to be the most efficient in the world.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

AC — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:51:43 -0000

Motorola in the Manufacturing context is just not relevant. They already are essentially a design house, with a brand name. Their logistics planning and execution have meant that their ability to predict channel sell though, and more importantly, to react quickly to it, is poor.

They are a brand, thats it. Weak in design, innovation, technology, cost - did I miss something? Android is a step in the right direction, but once the UI "newness" has gone, and there are multiple devices with the SAME UI, wll the Moto design really stand out???

I wait for Foxxcon or BYD to pull the trigger and buy them. Warren Buffett just invested in BYD, and with the fingers in so many pies, why not sell direct, rather than through Moto?

If 2008 has been the year of the UI (Apple, GOogle, S60) then 2009 is going to be all about consolidation of the supply base and strong moves from the manufacturing sector upwards in the value chain.

Also, I think 2009 maybe the year when Japanese manufacturing realises it needs to become lean or drop out.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Nate — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:22:21 -0000

It's an absolute shame because the E71 is one of the best phones on the market.

Re: Nokia’s touchiest week

Pdexter — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 08:48:30 -0000

It's not like Apple or RIM are even trying to compete with SE or Moto not to even talk about the giant Nokia and number 2 Samsung. Those 2 alone have over 50% of cell phone market and Nokia got +40% of smart phone market while 5800 seem to be selling like hotcakes currently.

BUT i actually think that Nokia is getting too easy out of this because of the brand power in Asia and Europe. For us phone junkies Nokia needs to deliver. 5800 with the FW it's selling seems like a good product, but far from N95 glory days. Mobile-Review.com:s(gets the devices year before anybody else) Eldar have been positive about Nokia's future so i'm ready to wait till MWC to see what Nokia has to deliver.