Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Bíró Zoltán — Wed, 03 May 2006 09:33:32 -0000

PREDICTION: A VIEW OF NEW YORK AT 11th SEPTEMBER 2015

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Jeff — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 22:34:00 -0000

For what it's worth, I'm of the belief that blogging compliments some industries better than others. Businesses that require a "human face" day-in and day-out *need* blogs for the same reason they need mascots and spokespersons: to enhance their brand identitity, keep their message clear and consistent, and (most importantly) maintain a level of intimacy with people who use their product or service.

I haven't read your book, so I can't comment on it directly. From what I've read online and my own observations about Amazon.com, I think one reason you got the reaction you did is because Amazon.com has never tried to put a "human face" on its brand.

Granted, there's a tech/media cult that surrounds Jeff Bezos, just like there's one that surrounds Bill Gates and Larry Ellison. However I don't think that Mr. Bezos or his company want him to be seen *as* Amazon.com, nor do they want employees who blog taking on that role.

A big part of Amazon.com's brand identity is that it is *the original .com retailer.* As such it doesn't need or want any of the trappings associated with more traditional retail business models, including a "human face." Instead, Amazon.com is a highly-automated, metrics-driven company and they've chosen to make those qualities defining aspects of their brand identity. Any sort of "personal" interaction with their customers on the part of their employees would dilute the value of these impersonal (but extremely efficient and effective) qualities.

That's my take on it anyway.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

anon — Sun, 02 Apr 2006 22:57:24 -0000

Windows Media audio non-DRM'ed format here

I'm not going to install Windows Media player to listen to audio that would be perfect in mp3 format. Why is the content in proprietary MS-only garbage?

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Sanford Dickert — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 16:38:25 -0000

Just an FYI - Dean's success in raising funds during the primary has often been attributed to his positive use of blogs to connect with constituents. What was the powerful mechanism was the use of specific issues and the informality/unofficial nature of blogs that allowed for activists to get onboard and create the momentum. The question then becomes - do blogs support the line of the campaign/company - or the supporters/customers?

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

smithee — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 00:12:16 -0000

>>On the other hand, I must buy Werner dinner some evening and thank him. (this put us on top of memeorandum for a couple of hours)

Scoble, this is why you are where you are. It's not said often enough that this is the point of blogging, having a conversation and being heard. Good job.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Dominic Jones — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:07:06 -0000

While you were harping about this stupid non-event all day, let's see what actually happened in the world today:

Earthquakes kill 50, injure 800

Rice Concedes 'Tactical Errors' in Iraq

UN Security Council calls on Iran to suspend uranium enrichment

At least 57 die as Bahrain cruise boat sinks

Iran Test-Fires Missile Able to Duck Radar

Explosion kills Palestinian militant amid spreading violence

4 Israelis killed by suicide bomber at entrance to West Bank

NY releases 9/11 emergency calls

13 Ugandan pupils die in school fire

Now can you explain to me why your self-opinionated A-list genuflection matters to anyone?

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

scobleizer — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:47:22 -0000

Miles: bummer, that was the worst one of the eight radio interviews I did this week. But, glad someone heard it!

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Miles Archer — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:57:00 -0000

I heard your interview on KCBS while driving home yesterday.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Justin Rudd — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:39:53 -0000

OK...I'll ask a question (using my real name :)).

I'm an SDE at Amazon.com (look at my site, I've posted that I work there). I don't talk much about my work because I'm not sure what I'm allowed to discuss. So I find it much easier to blog internally because I know that everything is fair game (tools that I'm using, techniques, problems I've run into, etc.). Of course my readership internally is probably lower than my readership externally (which is pretty low because I've come to realize that I'm not a very good writer and I get bored writing long entries. Steve Yegge is my hero when it comes to writing).

A little about what my team does - we decide when something ships. But not completely. We are given a soft date we have to meet, and we do our best to meet that date. But sometimes inventory and what not aren't there, and we miss the date. But the website is usually very good about setting expectations.

So we decide when. We see every shipment. So what would my blogging about scalability issues do for the customer experience? They don't care if I can't handle 10 trillion shipments (number drawn at random). They want their stuff. I have a good idea about how some of the information on the website is generated, but I wouldn't talk about it because it is so far away from me. I can't blog about how to pick a better book or how to use the search engine more effectively because I am so far away from those technologies. Me blogging about that is going to be the same as anyone else blogging about it - a user.

It makes sense to me for A9 and AWS to have blogs because they deal with the public. A9 with their OpenSearch initiative. AWS with the services they provide (S3 is awesome guys!). But for my team, what good would be brought to the customer? Now you can respond and say "But you could tell us how you decide when". We could, but we won't. That would require buy off from many other teams. Because we use their data as well. To discuss it would require OK from them.

Now if the discussion was "does Amazon need to provide blogs for authors?", I'm torn. I think we do a good job of collecting feedback with reviews. We have plogs now (although truth be told I turn that off). If you look at any item on the site, you can start a discussion on it (towards the bottom of the page). So would blogs directly help us? Would see something like http://blogs.amazon.com/ make us a better company and more responsive to what our customers want?

It's a good discussion to have. At least I think so...

As for the other underlying bit about Werner being rude, I don't know. I was in a dentist chair for close to 5 hours on Wednesday so I missed the talk :) But I do know that I've been in 2 meetings with him (not a lot I know), and he was very quiet :) He asked a few questions, and we all left with a good understanding of what needed to be done.

Just some random, half coherent thoughts from an Amazon employee who just had lots of dental work done :)

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

scobleizer — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:34:01 -0000

David: I answered you in my newer post this morning.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Mike Drips — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:56:33 -0000

I think the only fair thing to do here is to ask your publisher to no longer offer your book for sale through Amazon.

Boy, that will show them!

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

David — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:22:45 -0000

You wrote: "Werner has now apologized", but I don't see any apology when I follow the link. He doesn't seem to have changed his position, either.

And neither you nor Shel has answered what I thought was the best question:

"Why would people prefer to hear from Amazon over the authors who sell on Amazon and the other customers at Amazon?"

You sure are good building up straw man arguments, though, like turning Carr's suggestion of a blogging buddy into a "committee". Makes me wonder why you go ballistic about misleading headlines.

Sheesh!

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Rand — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:11:33 -0000

Hey Robert,
Two nights ago I attended (via my computer) the LIFT conference in Geneva where you (and my good friend Hugh) presented. Today I'm going out to buy your book. Watching yours and Hugh's presentations felt like the equivalent of getting a four year degree in blogging. Very inspiring. Very insightful. Very much worth emulating. The thing that inspired me the most was that you're one of those guys that wants everyone around you to be great. I find that so refreshing. You don't have secrets. And you don't build yourself up by leaving everyone else in the dark and keeping them small. Perhaps that is what bothers Amazon, nobody can be bigger (hence the name) and know anything that they don't already know. (At least that's my take on their attitude.) Big thanks for the inspiration. As a newbie blogger and business owner I applaud you.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Ben Levy — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:07:09 -0000

Blogging is definately here to stay, but on a site as packed full of crap as Amazon, it comes off as an unecessary distraction IMO. It would seem like a good idea to just work with other existing bloggers to direct their loyal audiences toward Amazon.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Christopher Coulter — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:00:38 -0000

Michael Drips had a great take too...

If you want to present to groups like the Seattle Chamber of Commerce, Amazon and whoever else then you'd better be able to answer real world questions and not spin those questions to the rest of the world as "being treated rudely".

Disagree or ask questions, and you are rude or a troll. I know that game. ;)

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Abhijit Nadgouda — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:00:06 -0000

In this whole episode, an attempt to prove the value of blogging to businesses has got buried in the talks of manners, rudeness (probably egos too!). A genuine debate on the value of blogging to businesses and probably some specifics for Amazon will benefit the corporate world.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Christopher Coulter — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:55:46 -0000

I also totally forgot that Howard Dean raised more money...

You also forgot to mention it became the biggest political bubble in American history. The scream heard around the world. It did get him in the Chair of the DNC, much to the delight of Republicans everywhere.

I didn't represent blogging very well and didn't back up the thesis

More of same. You spent a whole book of meaningless case studies all hobbled together, to prove what you deem to be self-evident. No reason why you would suddenly start to kick in with some real meaty numbers. It's but a cult, if you question or demand hard stats, you don't "get it".

But boy, for a PR Pro, Shel sure has a habit of getting stuck in the muck. That Nick Carr jab was classless.

But Werner Vogels hit nail on head. Bravo. With this guy as CTO, maybe I should apply at Amazon.

"Instead they appeared shell-shocked that anyone actually had the guts to challenge the golden wonder boys of blogging and not accept their religion instantly..."

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Ian Kennedy — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:43:30 -0000

The benefits of blogging at a small, unknown company can have a direct impact on website traffic and therefore business. This is especially the case in a field such as a tailor or a winery where blogging is a new way to interact with clients and the blog generates interest from not only existing clients but also the curious (and mainstream media looking for a good story).

For larger companies the benefits are different. There is already an established channel for communicating with the market and a reputation built upon these channels. Blogs amplifies an existing message so the benefits are harder to measure. A blog is unstructured and spontaneous so it's impact does not lend itself to formal metrics that traditional marketing campaigns are built around.

As Elizabeth says above, it's best to think of blogs as an oppportunity to communicate on a personal level with your most engaged customers. It is also a way to reach out to potential customers by building the number of connections in your company's social network. That is the true value of a corporate blog and until someone can agree on a price for a social network ($2 billion for Facebook anyone?) it'll be difficult to put an exact ROI on a corporate blog.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Mr. Sun — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:32:40 -0000

Proclamations such as: "Blogging helps Company X double its sales!" (or triple, or whatever phenomenal percentage growth number) are as credible as the ones shouted out by the hosts of those ubiquitous Sunday-afternoon-on-channel-54 30-minute infomercials.

For every success story attributed to blogging, I can easily name another success story that's got nothing to do with blogging -- for instance, iPod, Harry Potter books, I can go on and on.

I don't think Robert meant to say that blogging will take companies to the commercial promised land. Blogging is one of the many marketing tools. Some marketing execs swear by the Sunday-afternoon infomercials, some will avoid them like the plague. But one thing is for certain -- blogging costs almost nothing (well, your time), whereas infomercials cost more than a pretty penny to produce.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Nobody — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:06:43 -0000

Why are the posts at mini-microsoft anonymous? And if Microsoft employees are so smart, why aren't they working for themselves?

See, it just doesn't work.

Answer the question though. Why would people prefer to hear from Amazon over the authors who sell on Amazon and the other customers at Amazon?

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Jon Lebkowsky — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:39:52 -0000

Good post, Robert. I take issue with one statement: "I also totally forgot that Howard Dean raised more money in the last presidental race than other candidates because of his blog." This is (arguably) probably not correct, in that Dean's effective use of Meetups plus online donation tools probably had far more impact than the blog. I don't know of any campaign where you can relate the use of a blog to funding or actually winning, but expect to see some of that in the next elections.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Ian Betteridge — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:35:59 -0000

"blogging doubled sales at Stormhoek winery, according to its CEO"

I think this sentence, on its own, shows why, Werner was right to give you guys a rough ride and demand some real figures. The actual first line of the story you link to is this:

"South African producer Stormhoek has doubled sales of its wine with a campaign directed at the blogging community."

Can you see the difference? Stormhoek didn't double its sales through blogging: it increased them by marketing to bloggers. That's a very, very different claim. The only actual indication of how many bottles that were sold via blogging is the 100 bottles sent out via Hugh - of 100,000 sold. How many of those 100 bottles were turned into further sales? How many people who bought Stormhoek did so because they'd heard of it via a blog? And how much more significant was the fact that Sainsburys, Asda, Oddbins, Majestic, Waitrose and Somerfield - all major UK wine sellers - started stocking the brand?

That's what Werner means by a lack of hard figures. Now Amazon has a LOT of hard figures about its customers. It knows everything you've bought, and how many things (and what) you've bought after a recommendation. It knows who your friends are, because they bought you things from your wishlist. It knows what you sold through its marketplace, it knows if and what complaints you made. THOSE are hard facts, and from them Amazon can tell a much greater range of things about its customers than any amount of blogs would.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Dmad — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:35:27 -0000

Let's see... Bob Lutz of GM starts blogging and GM loses $12.9 BILLION dollars! I'm convinced of the power of blogging now!!!!

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Joe Pinegar — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:59:21 -0000

Robert,

I've read a bit on this subject now, and it seems to me like Werner was treating this as a sales presentation. I know from experience that sales presentations full of anecdotal evidence tend to be BS. Multi-level marketing anyone?

The question at hand is about focus. It's not about whether a blog _can_ help a company, but about _how_ to use the blog to help a company. The answer is going to be different for each company, falling into common styles of company blog.

Early web advertising saw a rush for everyone to get banner ads in place. Once that rush passed, questions about effectiveness began to be asked.

The e-commerce world has enough experience to be sceptical of anything that comes without a metric. You would make a much more valuable contribution by suggesting what types of metrics could be used to verify effectiveness.

Re: Much ado about blogging (Scoble, you didn’t answer the question)

Bill Berry — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:17:51 -0000

There's a great Harvard Business Review article entitled, "Change the Way You Persuade." The central idea is that business executives have different styles requiring different methods of persuasion. Some will accept anecdotal evidence while others can only be convinced by hard, quantitative data. Some (Werner???) are always the smartest person in the room and can only convince themselves (so trying to persuade them only gets you deeper mistrust -- these folks you just provide info and hope they "get it").

The bottom line is the responsibility lies with the persuader, in this case Shel and Robert. If Werner wasn't satisfied, then, by definition, some different methods were required. Like maybe providing different types of evidence that will appeal to different people. And if the person you're trying to persuade can't take a joke or be civil, well, there's a way to handle that too...