Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Peter Murray — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 17:56:11 -0000

I'm not sure if comments on search results is a good idea or not yet.

The other day on the first Google search results for "Scoble" (http://scobleizer.com) I left a "public" comment. I was surprised that mine was the only comment I can see. I only see it if I am logged into the Google account that I used to make the comment. So if I am only going to see my own comments why does Google need to put my name next to it?

I think the search result would be a lot more valuable to me if I could see other's comments, but then again it would also be a lot less valuable if those comments were junk or took up too much space.

Are the comments on search results searchable? What would happen when someone commented on those search results?

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

rbsshow — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:01:54 -0000

oh oh. blogger fight!

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Annand Ramsahai — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:27:01 -0000

The whole idea of this new wiki-like feature on Google Search is to actually help improve search results. No one has to like or dislike them - the feature was not implemented for personal taste but for the end result... which is better search results. Yes, Google is #1 right now and their rank in search seems to be ever increasing, so should they wait until someone comes along with a better search engine just because it's "not broken" yet? NO! Google is working on improving search continuously, and for Mike Arrington to make such a statement is foolish.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Ari Herzog — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:02:47 -0000

I can't comment on either of you being right or wrong on these new search features BECAUSE I CAN'T SEE THEM! I'm always logged onto Google, due to my GMail account.

Maybe their site is blocking me, because it's absent on my computer.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

jj — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:17:50 -0000

1. The fact that many technologically interested people do look beyond Page 1 of Google results is irrelevant. The eye-tracking research to which Scoble refers is, in fact, a representative sample of 'average internet users'. Thus we may infer that 'average internet users' are either ignorant, lazy, or satisfied with the results they get.

2. Given the nature of average internet user responses (regardless of type), this facility provides google with a higher opportunity for click thrus to other google pages. This enables higher visitor return on investment due to sponsored ads being placed on every page.

3. Non-algorithm based recommendations are a GOOD thing. Until now, if a human could produce a better response than Google's algorithms, then Google tried to improve the algorithm. The problem is that over time, the rules embedded in algorithms need to be altered as public opinion and social understandings change. The easiest way to reflect those changes is through crowd-sourcing, not through arbitrary rules set by Google engineers.

4. Mike, you CAN turn it off. Just use Google search through another filter (eg: Firefox default start window). Alternatively, just damn well ignore it. It's better to have the choice to use than not.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

AJ Kohn — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:13:34 -0000

Mike is wrong for the most part. He's right that they should have provided an easy opt-out for the product. I don't mean obvious (because Google needs a critical mass of usage) but it should be available.

He's wrong about the need and usefulness of the product. SearchWiki is about providing a human feedback mechanism for the search algorithm. It craves a stream of higher intelligence data, and SearchWiki can provide that in spades. It turns users into free mechanical turks.

http://www.blindfiveyearold...

Does it open the door to SEO abuse? Sure. But the Internati seem to think every user is going to somehow try to game the system. The truth is a small percentage will abuse it, but the vast majority will follow monkey behavior and use it appropriately. And I'm sure Google has smoothing factors and other abuse mechanisms to purge abuse from the data.

Comments is really window dressing IMO, but is there to encourage usage by the everyday user. If you took comments out of the equation you might see less of a negative reaction from the Internati, but would users adopt the new features at a rate that would help tutor the algorithm?

I'm not a Google fanboy, but I respect that they're seeking to improve their core technology instead of resting on their laurels.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Bertil — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 06:10:01 -0000

Spam? Spam! Let's give Google some spam to see how they'll manage it. . . Gmail and Blogger have proven quite efficient in removing it — I think more spam (hand-sorted by the user, as comment-feedback is likely — can't test it as the feature isn't active from my location) directly on Google property with nice IP attached to it will mostly help Google search and destroy more of it and identify links faster, including on other platforms.

Truth be told, I don't use Google search engine explicitely anymore: I get information from Zemanta, twitter, etc. I won't come accross a great definition-site like Wikipedia or Urban-Dictionnary throught the search engine, too bad; but I'll get recommendations to it, for sure.
I spend most of my time on Gmail and G-Reader, Google Street View — were this spam won't appear, but the analysis of the comments will probably find a way rapidly.

Finally, like all features: making it an option is essential (opt-in or -out is certainly decisive, but I personally don't care) and having it available word-wide woudl allow me to use it.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

GeekLad — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:57:04 -0000

@michael arrington
There is an opt-out. DON'T USE IT. There's nothing that says you have to click the little arrows and Xs. I don't understand why you're so opposed to it and why you seem to feel it's being shoved down your throat. If you don't use it, you'll never see any difference in the results other than the additional controls. Is it really that bad to have two small extra images to the right of each result?

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Engago Team — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:30:21 -0000

If Google starts using the data from the Wiki Searches, then they kill their own business of Adsense.
A company would just needs to hire a service that employs hundreds of people (India) to promote all of the pages in searches.

"that suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please."

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Simon — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 04:21:50 -0000

I agree with the Techcrunch guys. I don't understand it at all. It seems to be an unnecessary overhead to finding what you want and going there.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

joe gelb — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:36:18 -0000

yeah i could not agree more the new added features to google search and their new projects are great. many times its hard though for such a high caliber media person to see on eye with google. for instance i blog on both wordpress and blogger and think both are fun and i will never stop using blogger even though wordpress is bettar and i do the same thing with google search features which seem worlds bettar than like a week ago

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

michael arrington — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 02:23:52 -0000

yeah, it's great. super awesome. Where is the off button again? Oh yeah, it doesn't have one.

I search on Google to find new things. If I have to tell it what's what, then something is wrong. And the comments - they're just spam, trolls and nonsense.

I'm fine with Google doing this, but it needs an opt out. The fact that it doesn't have one is the real story. They need this data for...something.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

C. Enrique Ortiz — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:46:26 -0000

You are right Scoble.... and it is a known fact that human assisted classification completes data analytics.... so the Google's move is a smart one, one designed to improve the searches. The only question is, will people use the new features? I have already.

ceo

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

earl wallace — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:38:45 -0000

Robert, Google is good for the Reader and Picasa. I would really like to know how personal info they are aggregating.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Diego — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:53:03 -0000

The up side is that no one cares what Mike says anyway.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Peter Murray — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:42:00 -0000

I have a habit of clicking the second result when I google something. I'm not sure why?

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

paul — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:38:22 -0000

I agree, Google needs to innovate to stay where it is

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Dan Wilson — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:38:35 -0000

I'm with you. I rarely look past the first page of Google results. I sometimes stray to page two. But rarely. But when I look at the results in analytics for my really rather small blog I see a 'long tail' of clicks to old posts from Google result pages for 49, 100, 200 results etc so I wonder if Google know something we don't.

That said. Be careful criticising those Techcrunch chaps. I made a minor criticism of Techcrunch UK's Mike Butcher (yup, I'm lime side) last week and he had a little hissy fit. Although I strongly suspect Arrington would think 'unusually self-important' to be too mild a compliment. ;o)

http://www.wilsondan.co.uk/...

Keep on truckin'.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

idont — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:21:08 -0000

You do not read the second link?

Try to find the review of a product you want to buy.... first results are always from shops...

Looking for code (programing) exemples is also a pain... I always get outdated/poor quality explanations from the first results....
Generalists' articles are always first and real experts' are always down in the list...

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

adamkmiec — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:16:56 -0000

Wiki Search has tremendous potential. However, by limiting the Wiki impact to just MY results they aren't really helping me out. If the Wiki edits impacted all search results for that term, well then we'd have REAL wiki impact. Until Google makes that happen Arrington is right.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

chrisbrogan — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:09:37 -0000

I think adding some human overlay to Google is super powerful. I love the features. I can see how they might be gamed. I am watching to see how people will pervert it, actually. I think the good folks will do good things. But what will the bad people or ad people do?

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

idont — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:06:08 -0000

1) People click on the advertising because its quality is better than the search result.

What will be the impact on google's revenue?

2) SEO entousiasts, scammers, etc. have a new playing field to distort the result. They will enjoy the opportunity to "act" directly on the result page. When you see the troubles on a "small" site like DIGG, let's imagine on google...

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Kyle Dylan Conner — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:04:02 -0000

The real problem is, no one cares.

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Philip Baddeley — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:59:54 -0000

Thanks Robert. I have commented on my own site. See if I get more comments than just me. Seems a great idea and you are ahead of the curve!

Re: Mike Arrington is wrong about Google search

Marshall Sponder — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:41:32 -0000

I agree with you, Robert, and Arrington doesn't "get it". I'm sure you can argue with him about it at LeWeb3 (which I'm not going to this year - sounds like this year is going to be better than last, though).

Don't know why Michael doesn't get it, you'd think it'd be the other way around, if anything - that he, of all people, would understand why Google needs the Search Wiki.

Amazing how, when Google actually does make Search "Social" Michael Arrignton and Andrew Goodman attack it - you got to wonder, I do, if Micheal is old school. I know Andrew Goodman is old school.