Scobleizer: Microsoft has no innovator’s dillema?
paul
· 2 years ago
Scott Guthrie and his Team are shipping WOW web software, you'll get a chance to talk to him at MIX07 http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Paul: Yup, Scott is one of the good guys. But, seriously, what has he shipped that has made everyone on the Web stand up and say "wow?" I've talked with more than 70 Web startups and it's a rare day when any entrepreneur talks about anything Microsoft is doing.
paul
· 2 years ago
ASP.NET AJAX
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Paul: now, name three startups Microsoft hasn't paid any money to who are using it.
paul
· 2 years ago
They would be Microsoft Partners, Microsoft earns most of it's money from Partners.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Growth comes from startups, not Microsoft partners. That's status quo. Microsoft makes a lot of money from them, but isn't going to see love, or growth in profits from them, which it needs to see its stock price go up.
dave
· 2 years ago
I'm having trouble reconciling what you're saying here with all those glowing reports about new and cool MSFT products coming out back when you worked at the company. Which one is BS?
paul
· 2 years ago
You've been drinking to much Google juice.... ..stock prices change like the wind and Britney's hair....
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Dave: which glowing reports are you thinking of? I still love WIndows Vista, I still love Tablet PCs, and Xboxes, and all that. But do any of those have anything to do with startups, or Internet usage? No.
Paul: Microsoft's stock price hasn't changed much in four years. Very flat. When I joined Microsoft four years ago the price was $26. What's it at today? $29.50? Compare to Apple or Google.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
Finally decided to light the match to the bridges, huh?
Keith Patrick
· 2 years ago
"Name a single Microsoft Internet product/service that made you say “wow” in the past three years."
ASP.Net 2.0, primarily the WebParts customization (came from the older Sharepoint, though) and skinning. The databinding is pretty nice, but lacking in a few areas; the WPF databinding (and, well, WPF in general) is more of a "Wow" than ASP.Net's, though
Don Dodge
· 2 years ago
Robert, Startups will always be more exciting and produce more products that make you go WOW! That has always been the case.
Remember Newsgator and how we were both impressed? Well the new version of Outlook has an RSS reader built in that works just like Newsgator. It is great! An RSS reader is also built into IE 7. In this case Microsoft was a "fast follower". Not fast enough for us geeks, but well ahead of the curve for the average user.
I think the Xbox 360 has made a few people go Wow! The Zune introduced a new way to share music wirelessly. The next version of Zune will be really cool. But in most cases Microsoft isn't all about Wow.
Microsoft's main businesses serve developers and IT people. They aren't looking for Wow!, they want steady improvements in quality, performance, integration, and reliable features.
I think Office Live is going to meet the Google challenge. Microsoft already has blogs, wikis, RSS readers, and will increasingly incorporate web based services seamlessly with client and server based products. This might not be sexy, but it is highly productive.
Microsoft acquired 19 companies last year and 22 the year before. These were mostly small startups with cool technology and strong development teams. JJ Allaire and the Onfolio team is one example.
I would say that Microsoft is doing the right things to avoid being caught in the Innovators Dilemma trap. Being a "fast follower" may not be sexy, but it is smart. Acquiring innovative startups is also smart. And then there is Ray Ozzie, who BTW came from another Microsoft acquisition, Groove Networks. Ray has big plans, and I would never bet against Ray.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Keith: you're in the Microsoft ecosystem, though. I can't name a single startup that's thinking of using WPF. And the ones that have (the New York Times) got tons of resources from Microsoft (I believe the NYT app was actually mostly done by Microsoft employees/contractors). Money will get you marketshare, but it won't get you love.
Microsoft is very quickly moving itself to dinasour status without any help from the users - it is happening from the top down and that will be its downfall
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Don: funny enough we were talking about the Outlook news aggregator last night. Consensus at the party, even among Microsoft employees, is that it blows chunks. That's part of the problem. Microsofties think they are doing good work when their work just doesn't measure up to existing products. Newsgator has cross-app, cross-platform synchronization, for instance. It synchronizes with my Mac's NetNewsWire. Outlook's RSS aggregator doesn't do that.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Don: I wouldn't bet against Ray either.
Oh, and what happened to Onfolio? They promptly dropped their Firefox support when they joined Microsoft.
Microsoft is its own worst enemy.
It also isn't buying best of breed companies in the social software space. Onfolio was close, but they killed it when they killed the Firefox version.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
@9 "Microsoft’s stock price hasn’t changed much in four years. Very flat. When I joined Microsoft four years ago the price was $26. What’s it at today? $29.50? Compare to Apple or Google."
How about leaving the market analysis to the professionals? If you are in it for the short term, well, good luck with that chase. I'm sure you realize that all three stocks are rated as a "buy" by many analysts?
portangeles
· 2 years ago
Holy cow, it is true....I think Microsoft is feeding off of young inexperienced talent, and burning it up. My connection there (a family member) just lost lots of time off and was not very happy. It's too bad, I wish there was something I could do to help.
Jason
· 2 years ago
And those same marketers are in complete denial that what they are doing is impeding Microsoft's success..
And if, for some reason, Microsoft completely tanks, runs out of business, or the like, they would deny they had anything to do with it.
Eric B
· 2 years ago
Xbox Live/Xbox Live Arcade is the closest thing that has gotten a "Wow" from me. It's also the the most impressive online console service out there, is a big time revenue generator, and makes the boys at Sony and Nintendo insanely jealous.
Aaron Brethorst
· 2 years ago
Uh, how about: Xbox 360, Zune's UI, Xbox Live Arcade, XNA Game Studio Express, or LINQ? Sure, I'm a Microsoftie and clearly biased as a result, but these products or technologies is far more interesting to me than another me-too photo website.
blogger@wordpress
· 2 years ago
"Name a single Microsoft Internet product/service that made you say “wow” in the past three years"
Visual Studio 2005.
How much does the "wow" factor help the bottomline anyway? It generates a lot of buzz in the blogosphere and in 'parties' that the bloggers attend(btw the A list blogosphere is becoming pretty much like the rich and famous circle of hollywood. You've got your own jargons, market indicators and parties and starting to forget that there is a world outside the tech conferences and blogger parties.)
What about the "wow" Java generated? Not long back Red Hat Linux was the challenger to Windows. It "wow"-ed a lot of people. Where are these 2 right now?
And how much of a "wow" did XP generate? XBOX 360? Except Win95 which other Microsoft product has wow-ed the public on release?
How many companies have been able to do this consistently - even outside the software world?
Minimsft does indicate that there are tons of problems inside Ma-MSFT. But this is a company of >70K smart aggressive employees. Do you expect anything less?
Microsoft may fall. But it won't be because it didn't WOW the market.
portangeles
· 2 years ago
I have to say though I do like Microsoft's new mission statement. "At Microsoft, we work to help people and businesses throughout the world realize their full potential. This is our mission. Everything we do reflects this mission and the values that make it possible." If they would only hold EVERYTHING up to this statement , it would be wonderful.....
zane
· 2 years ago
What about local.live and Maps I find it to me much more accruate and faster then google maps. Xbox Live and Marketplace rock name one other service I can download legit HD content and watch them on my TV without a PC required to be in the loop. I don't think a web service should always have a huge WOW factor I would much rather it be as transparent, functional and reliable. I have both hotmail and GMAIL and experience many more service outages with Gmail then with hotmail/live mail.
James
· 2 years ago
.NET as a whole is pretty spectacular - perhaps not cool enough to be seen as innovative, but amongst developers it's highly respected.
I think you're bemoaning the lack of funky consumer apps with glossy graded fills.
But perhaps MSFT rightly puts all its smartest brains into the parts of its business that underpin large portions of our tech-based society. Windows, .NET, SQL Server etc etc.
I guess it has a moral obligation do so.
Contrast with Google's fast-and-looseness. Very exciting to watch. But perhaps they're not (yet) mature enough to realise the depth of their responsibilities.
watever
· 2 years ago
It has every thing to do widh ballmer.,People say he is one hell of a frustated soul Replace Him.I am sure everything will setright.
met
· 2 years ago
Now you are saying money can buy love? :)
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Aaron: if you think that the Web world is only doing another me-too Photo site, then you've demonstrated the problem very well.
Watever: it wasn't Ballmer who wrote me that email. The problem is a lot bigger and deeper than him.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Zane: Virtual Earth, er, Live Local is one of my favorite examples of things Microsoft did well. But you do realize Chandu Thota worked there, right? If it's going so well there, why did he leave? Does losing employees make you believe the future of that service is bright? Not to me.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
I think the Xbox 360 has made a few people go Wow!
Then how come it got smoked by both the PS2 and the Wii in January? How come the 360 has *never* outsold the PS2?
"The Xbox 360: So amazing, that only the PS2 and the Wii are more popular."
The Zune introduced a new way to share music wirelessly.
No, it introduced a new way to demo music via mandatory involuntary DRM that on occasion violates the license the music is created and distributed under.
"demo" and "share" are not the same things, which is why the are two different words.
Oh, and what happened to Onfolio? They promptly dropped their Firefox support when they joined Microsoft.
Well of COURSE they did. You don't expect Ballmer to support stinking Linux users until every distro is paying him off do you?
Xbox Live/Xbox Live Arcade is the closest thing that has gotten a “Wow” from me. It’s also the the most impressive online console service out there, is a big time revenue generator, and makes the boys at Sony and Nintendo insanely jealous.
Sony maybe. Nintendo hardly. They're putting up classic (S)NES/N64/Sega games and people are downloading them like mad. Nintendo is simply not playing the same tired game, and it's why they're kicking the shit out of the Xbox and the PSX
Microsoft may fall. But it won’t be because it didn’t WOW the market.
No, they'll fail because they still shoot for "good enough" and the competition is shooting for "outstanding" and "excellent", and no matter how big you are, eventually, "good enough" loses. Ask IBM where their dominance went. They'll fail because no one trusts anything they say. WinFS and the bullshit that was the Vista/Longhorn promise train was a nail in that coffin. The killing of WM's cross - platform support, craptacular as it was, put another nail in that coffin. WPF/E's Linux support being left to "anyone but Microsoft?" Another nail.
There's really nothing Microsoft is doing that is outstanding. It's all just me too.
Zune? iPod Me Too WPF/E? Flash Me Too People Near Me? Zeroconf Me Too
This isn't the 90s when people by and large were too ignorant to know better, but Microsoft is still playing the same game, and the blame all goes to Ballmer. Fire him, make Gates retire early, let Ozzie have ultimate cosmic power ala Jobs at Apple, and you may see Microsoft start being excellent. But the same players and the same plan? no way.
Josh
· 2 years ago
The Live.com Maps made me say "Wow" ... when they came out they were far better than anything from Google and Yahoo! and MapQuest (and Ask didn't have Maps yet). And the Bird's Eye View thing is still pretty 'wow' inducing.
Josh
· 2 years ago
John #30: It's so surprise to see from your site that you're a true Apple fanboy. Spoken as such. In fact, it seems pretty much all you blog about is how much you hate Microsoft. Great FOX News style analysis, though.
Also, if Nintendo doesn't start shipping some games soon, the Wii party is going to over pretty quickly.
blogger@wordpress
· 2 years ago
"If it’s going so well there, why did he leave? Does losing employees make you believe the future of that service is bright? "
This is true if he was moving to Google, Amazon, yahoo or the likes. But he is moving to a startup. It could simply be that he wants to work in a less constrained place.
Bright people leaving is never good. But it indicates a much serious problem when they join your direct competitor.
The other interesting thing about Microsoft is that its not a monlithic org. You really have to talk to atleast half a dozen from each of the individual orgs if you want to make a guess based on their opinions.
Joe
· 2 years ago
Good point Robert,but then again, has Flickr made Yahoo any money, Google docks is at the very least intresting but it has yet to prove itself. Google earth is great, but then again is MSFT's Virtual Earth abd they beat Google to the puch with certain features. Youtube, pretty cool, but once again it has yet to prove it's a viable/Profitable buisness model.
In fact Google reminds me more of MSFT every day, they make all their money on ad revenues through search,they've been doing this for several years now and really don't seem to show anything else matching this buisness model's potential.
Yahoo, same thing, lots of potential but thay have thier problems.
met
· 2 years ago
Looks like Chandu Thota leaving might be better for Microsoft. He'll build a/his company based of on MS technologies.
blogger@wordpress
· 2 years ago
"WinFS and the bullshit that was the Vista/Longhorn promise train was a nail in that coffin"
Ok. How many companies have delivered *ALL* that they promised? GooTube announced they are buying filtering software - For about 6 months they have been talking about an internal solution that will come online to tackle that issue. So they are dead too?
"let Ozzie have ultimate cosmic power ala Jobs at Apple" and do what? *GROW* windows to 5.1% market share?
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
John #30: It’s so surprise to see from your site that you’re a true Apple fanboy. Spoken as such. In fact, it seems pretty much all you blog about is how much you hate Microsoft. Great FOX News style analysis, though.
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAH.
Of course, when you have nothing else, bust out the fanboy tag.
Lame, but hey, it's the internet, Lame is the way of things.
Actually, I go after bloggers FAR more than Microsoft, and if you look at how many positive articles I have about Microsoft Mac BU products, that whole "OMGJOHNHATESMS!!!" argument kind of fades. But in my ~20 years of IT work, the pain in my ass has had a Windows logo more than any single other company. Microsoft don't like it? Stop being a pain in my ass.
besides, I'm far meaner to the Acrobat team. I spend thousands of words figuring out new ways to call them stupid. Microsoft is just a big stupid kid by comparison.
I do find it interesting how in a search for "microsoft" on your site, I can't find one article that is even mildly critical of Microsoft. Hmm...yet I'm the Apple Fanboy? Funny that.
Cast out the beam in thine own eye before thou pointest out the mote in mine.
Toby Getsch
· 2 years ago
photosynth
wow
Kevin Dente
· 2 years ago
I agree - MS doesn't have the Wow right now. It seems like each new property they release is "Microsoft's version of...". Microsoft's version of YouTube. Microsoft's version of Google Maps. Microsoft's version of Blogger. It's all following, not leading. They need to do something NEW, not just duplicate other people's stuff. Or at least put an innovative spin on a old story (like Google Reader).
I was pleasantly surprised by Yahoo! Pipes - a Wow service that came out of a company that I didn't expect it from. That's the kind of stuff I've come to expect from Google. If Yahoo can do it, maybe there's hope for MS.
Slava
· 2 years ago
PhotoSynth
Don Crowley
· 2 years ago
I hope Ray Ozzie can really do something for Microsoft. Soapbox would be very cool - the quality is great. I just can't log in on my Mac (that should be easy to fix). Live.com maps are awesome, good looking, cool functionality BUT NO API for mash ups and it only works for the US of A, the rest of the world is waiting! I'm tapping my fingers with impatience. Come on Microsoft! Do you want Google to be a the next monopoly? I don't want any monopoly, just 2-3 great companies with great stuff. To quote Hugh@gapingvoid.comChange the world or go home
Josh
· 2 years ago
John: You've overwhelmed with your tact.
I'll revise: your blog seems to be nothing but one big complaint. I hope you enjoy that aneurysm.
Nice close reading of my blog, by the way. *yawn*
Mariano
· 2 years ago
Photosynth :)
Remember your post 'Demo of the Year'?? From what I read there, it made you WOW too.
Granted, it's still nothing more than a tech preview until you're able to upload your own pictures, but it certainly WOWs.
Mike
· 2 years ago
The problem is that MS thinks they can be a "fast follower" on the web like they have on the desktop. Unfortunately, that game only works well when you have strong competitive advantages, like Windows and Office monopolies to use as a beachhead.
It's all about first mover advantage on the web, whether to establish your brand synonomously with a new type of service, or to establish a network effect that prevents fast followers. As Rob points out, MS execs never want to take the risk of moving first and being wrong.
Keith Patrick
· 2 years ago
>“Name a single Microsoft Internet product/service >that made you say “wow” in the past three years”
>Visual Studio 2005.
"Wow! This thing sure does crash a lot!"
Seriously, though, 2005 is close to excellent. I though 2003, minus some performance and file locking issues, was pretty damn good. If Hawaii (the next major release, IIRC) is a major update that streamlines and stabilizes the IDE, with a ribbon, hopefully, I can go "Wow!"
Keith Patrick
· 2 years ago
Lemme qualify "2005 is close to excellent" with "2005 sp1 w/ Orcas is close to excellent"
Sprague Dawley
· 2 years ago
Comment #25 by James hits it spot on. MSFT may not have the shiny Web 2.0 apps that keep the A List breathless, they just own the platform that those apps have to run on...
Given their footprint, Microsoft has to put most of their effort into maintaining the applications that underpin most of the world's business. They don't have the luxury to take Google's "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" approach. They'll move more slowly, but can build on a foundation none of their rivals can match.
Paul
· 2 years ago
Robert, I just read Ray Ozzie's interview in the book "Founders at Work", and the impression I got is that he's perfectly happy to spend years refining his ideas before ever releasing anything. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for whatever it is he's working on now.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
I’ll revise: your blog seems to be nothing but one big complaint. I hope you enjoy that aneurysm.
Nice close reading of my blog, by the way. *yawn*
Translation: "How DARE you point out my flaws while I'm whining about yours. My own fanboyism is absolutely immaterial in the face of yours."
Again, whining about how I read your writing when it's obvious how little you read mine?
Pot
Kettle
Black
Lemme qualify “2005 is close to excellent” with “2005 sp1 w/ Orcas is close to excellent”
Microsoft ever get around to built-in CVS/SVN support?
Joe
· 2 years ago
Comment #25 by James hits it spot on. MSFT may not have the shiny Web 2.0 apps that keep the A List breathless, they just own the platform that those apps have to run on…
Given their footprint, Microsoft has to put most of their effort into maintaining the applications that underpin most of the world’s business. They don’t have the luxury to take Google’s “throw it against the wall and see if it sticks” approach. They’ll move more slowly, but can build on a foundation none of their rivals can match.
Comment by Sprague Dawley — February 23, 2007 @ 5:00
Yes, but the problem here is that Google has become good at throwing things at the wall, but unfortunatly nothing seems to be sticking to the wall.
met
· 2 years ago
Gmail and search have stuck to the wall - now they'll try to pick stuff off the floor and pin it those things that did get stuck (which is what Microsoft has been doing now). They don't want to throw stuff at the things that are stuck, they try to throw stuff at empty places on the wall at the same time stick stuff to the things already on the wall. The business world is a messy world.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
@29. Scoble, you are citing things that don't make money for the company. Ever bother to take the time to read their financial reports (that was a rhetorical question, but I don't think they publish them in a blog, so the obvious answer is "no"). So, where does Microsoft make the bulk of their money? Don Dodge in @12 is right; they are going to invest in the areas that have the potential for the highest return. Looking at their recent earnings reports, doesn't seem to be Live, MSN, or even search. You seem to want them to go after a market that has no interest in paying for anything.
Very cool products - SCOM, SCE, SCCM, Powershell, Exchange 2007
This off the top of my head - but the above is in the enterprise space, where real money is made as opposed to the high failure rate of startups.
OK, they don't have a "social networking" feature to keep the short attention span of "A-listers", but they are great pieces of technology. A-listers wouldn't know what to do if they were faced with actually designing, deploying and supporting them - which in my opinion is the REAL IT world, not a circle-jerking bubble.
Apologies for not signing my name the way you expect it - I'm too busy doing REAL work to spend time on maintaining another echo chamber.
inputexpert
· 2 years ago
A year ago, I heard Kevin Schofield on KOMO radio in Seattle being interviewed for techfest talk about his problem going from keyboard to mouse and from his blog how he says that it drives him crazy going from keyboard to mouse using excel which tells me microsoft does not have the solution to Kevin’s problem.
One solution Microsoft has, because they have Bill Buxton’s expertise. They have a good solution, but maybe they do not know it. It depends on how Kevin types.
I have looked at Vista features on the internet and know that Vista is designed for old technology, the keyboard and mouse. For the old keyboard and mouse Vista is advanced technology, but for the keyboard of the future, the interface is kind of old technology.
From my keyboard of the future, you get the interface of the future. Don Norman recently had an article discussing interfaces. See my comment, google: inputexpert.
The interface of the future is a personal interface. We have the personal computer. Why not a personal interface? What is a personal interface?
I read Don Dodge’s blog a while ago and got the impression that microsoft does not buy companies for less than fifty million.
Innovation. What is innovation? Don Dodge discussed microsoft innovation on his blog. Interesting read.
Don, if you want innovation, you can buy my company for fifty million and have innovation.
Where do you find innovation?
Between the ears!
Do you need a lot of money? No.
Ray Ozzie, kick ass, take names, GO Ray Ozzie!
GANBATTE!
I saw an article on Bill Gates sitting in front of three screens using a keyboard and mouse.
You only need one screen and the keyboard of the future.
Bill Gates, you are the KING. Why do your people let you use old technology? Is it the KING has no clothes thing.
I am sad the KING will leave the building in two years. I am happy about what he is going to do.
Go Bill!
Kevin, I will send you one of my keyboards or get one from a licensee maybe Dell, HP, or Apple when they are made.
I was reading where Kevin said the people get ten minutes to present their project to Bill and Jim at techfest.
I would need only three minutes to dazzle them.
It is late.
from the “father of the perfect keyboard”
Simon Brocklehurst
· 2 years ago
@2. "I’ve talked with more than 70 Web startups and it’s a rare day when any entrepreneur talks about anything Microsoft is doing."
Robert, it's interesting that the web startups you're talking to aren't choosing Microsoft right now. Let's see what happens when WPF/E starts to motor.
I suspect a lot of developers are going to like that...
Kip Kniskern
· 2 years ago
Hmm Chandu Thota left to start up a company that will build upon Virtual Earth technology. Not sure that's a good example of the rats leaving the ship, Robert.
Following Windows Live as we do, no one is more frustrated right now with MS than LiveSide, but short term splash isn't as important to MS as long term goals. What's the ratio of Hotmail users to Gmail? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? More? I would consider the backend work on Hotmail to be pretty innovative. With far more users, Hotmail is far more stable, at 2g now and moving to 4g, and ready to add in cloud storage pieces. It's not flash in the pan, it's good solid steady working infrastructure that's going to be solid and available for a long time.
As for an innovation from MS, take a look at Windows Home Server. Got some beta glitches of course, but the way Home Server approaches backup just rocks.
Nobody likes their project to be cut, for sure. And yes Sinofsky and company are pulling in the reins. Funny but when Windows Live was announced, the idea was for the kids from Red West to teach Windows a thing or two about shipping, but now it seems like Windows is teaching MSN how to move at a snail's pace. As frustrating as that is to report on, in the long run it may be a necessary approach. Good solid steady gains at the expense of no buzz at Robert's A List parties. Let's see where things stand in 2 years.
steve clayton
· 2 years ago
Robert, someone already mentioned Photosynth which I know you "wowed" about but take the point that it's only a tech beta. Live Search for Windows Mobile had you pretty excited though and I use this product several times a week. It's helped me find my way around London today...for free :)
What's a mashup? I'm seeing Virtual Earth applications in both 2D and 3D every single day, from hot real estate sites like http://www.redfin.com to slick enthusiast sites like Harley Davidson's Great Roads Explorer (see Jeff Henshaw's http://jeff.henshaw.org/?p=205) - the great thing about Virtual Earth is that it's ONE application that supports what Google does with two (Gmaps and Gearth). I look forward to what Chandu Thota will create on the platform.
NotaPRGuy
· 2 years ago
Robert -
I think it's important to watch what start-ups are doing. Start-ups are often the source of neat innovations. Large companies (yes, even Apple) are best at seeing cool innovations from start-ups or academia and finding ways to turn those ideas into real products that make money. Robert, I envy your access to the world of start-ups because you get to see so much cool stuff. But you should always be careful to maintain perspective. Of the hundreds of start-ups you see, how many will actually survive two years? Even one year? Of the survivors, how many will actually become highly successful businesses? If you define "highly successful" by being acquired by Google then there will be quite a few. But how many will actually be successful on their own?
I go back to your earlier comments on how all the cool dudes are using Flash. For every cool dude that's using Flash there are hundreds or thousands who are using .NET or Java or Web standards. Don't let the bright and shiny objects distract you too much! ;)
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Steve: Photosynth is cool, but it's not what I think of as a Web service. It also isn't something I can use yet. Takes something like nine hours of compute time just to process one set of images.
Mobile search? Not ahead of others in the market in enough of a way to "wow" me.
hmmm
· 2 years ago
Hmmm
Chandu Thota was one of the best people at M$FT - he was even cooler than $latex e^{i\pi}=1$... I blame Mini-Microsoft for the malaise...
bigduke6
· 2 years ago
Hey Robert, Remember the awesome stitcher in the Expression eval? It's GONE in the new beta! Whahappn?
Phil B
· 2 years ago
microsoft probably has many patents and innovations we don't even know about.
Phil Rack
· 2 years ago
Everytime I see a new version of SharePoint, I saw WOW!
Dan
· 2 years ago
Speaking of Amazon's S3. I sent the link to that story to 9 of my friends who might be interested in that kind of service. Most of them have replied saying the same thing I said when I went to check it out. Wow!! It's an incredible service but it made me wonder why your blog entry was the first I have heard of it. Why isn't anyone else talking about this?? Maybe I'm just listening to and reading the wrong stuff....
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Dan: maybe so! It's been around the blogs, but because it's an infrastructure service doesn't get the mainstream press that other Web 2.0 stuff, like Zillow, gets. Here's the Amazon Web Services blog, by the way: http://aws.typepad.com/
Kamal Jain
· 2 years ago
Robert:
As a geek you have to close your eyes to not see wow in Microsoft online services.
The biggest wow I see in Microsoft services is how well they are integrated with each other. Our services work much better together than the other guy. The whole seems to be much bigger than the sum of the parts.
In terms of integration we are years ahead, say from Google. Our UI of pretty much any service is much better than any service out there. If Google Map wowed you over Terraserver, then Virtual Earth should wow you even more over Google maps. The latter is equal advance if not more of the state of the art as former was.
Every major player seems to be jumping on Virtual Earth. Just yesterday I noticed that weather.com use virtual Earth for their interactive weather maps. I do not know since when. But it did wow me.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Kamal: Virtual Earth is probably the closest example to "wow" that I've seen. But, it took a kicking from Google Maps to get the resources to do Virtual Earth.
I'd like to know what you mean by "better integrated" though. Got some more examples? I don't see them. I also don't think that's really a huge advantage. At least not yet.
Has anyone switched from Flickr to a "better integrated" photosharing service? Has anyone switched from Google to a "better integrated" search service? Has anyone switched from Craigslist to a "better integrated" classified advertising service? Has anyone switched from Del.icio.us to a "better integrated" bookmarking service?
Aaron Brethorst
· 2 years ago
@Scoble: (You said: "Aaron: if you think that the Web world is only doing another me-too Photo site, then you’ve demonstrated the problem very well.")
I know exactly what can be done in a web browser, and I think it's astonishingly cool (more on this from me in a few months).
And I do agree with you that it's very unfortunate people like Chandu Thota are leaving the company, but that doesn't change my perception that many web startups are operating in a me-too mode.
Kamal Jain
· 2 years ago
Robert,
Better integrated. The very first thing is the uniform UI. All the live services have similar look and feel. You can pretty much say from the look and feel itself whether a page is a live page. Now, from one live services you can go to another related live service conveniently. For an example search something on live search and you would see all the related search services in the menu bar quite conveniently (I like them on IE6 better than on IE7 though). Sure Google has this too but on a Live search page you would see your search macros too. A personalization feature!
Now look at the soapbox page. Like a video. Press the share button and you will see all the live services which you may like to use for the share feature. I like the IM feature there! This is not at the expense of other things. It still have all other sharing features.
From a user (non-geek) perspective what's a desktop OS? A bundle of softwares which let a user use the desktop effectively. What's a Web OS? A bundle of services which let a user use the web effectively.
I am not a Geek. But I though a geek like you would notice the Microsoft's Web OS under development. The market success would depend upon many things. But a geek should be able to see the technology and the vision. Creating a Web OS is not a guarantee of market success but it is definitely a necessary component.
It was November 2005, when we announces Web OS. Go to http://ideas.live.com and the development looks amazing. That's a wow! In 15 months with much less number of employees in our Live divisions. We have a technology parity in pretty much in every area and a lead in some.
Do not get confused with our market share in some of the services with the lack of wow factor. Contrary to the popular myth that there is no switching cost, most online services do have switching cost for users. Craigslist users have switching cost (it is a two sided market with huge networking effect). But http://expo.live.com is among the largest classified after craigslist (which has a huge lead).
From investment point of view yes there is nothing wow yet (in online services). But from a techonolgy point of view, everything has an element of wow. The question will be to move the former wow from the latter.
bluchip
· 2 years ago
hey ur blog is nice can u tell me how to add ads in wordpress blogs.. is the procedure similar to blogger.com
fifthdecade
· 2 years ago
The problem at M$ is that it worries too much about its competitors and not enough about its users.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
unless "wow" = hundreds of millions of dollars, Microsoft and their investors aren't going to be interested.
Shawn
· 2 years ago
Microsoft is NOT innovative. They are, were, and forever will be, predatory. MS wants "innovates" for its own welfare, not that of its customers.
Shawn - if you enjoyed that Cnet article, then you should also read Miguel de Icaza's (Ximian, GNOME, Gnumeric) more exhaustive post on a similar topic here http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2007/Jan-30.html
One interesting point among many...
"Not only it is demanded that OOXML abide by more standards than ISO's own ODF does, but also that the format used for metafiles from 1999 be used. It seems like it would prevent some nice features developed in the last 8 years for no other reason than "there was a standard for it". "
As an ex-Microsoftie, Robert is now in the enviable position of becoming more objective on MS technologies and motivations. I was interested to read his impressions looking in from the outside, and how MS has a completely MS view of the world...that was probably true up to about a year ago.
But I'm curious what his perspective is on people who use the "predatory" card. Working on the inside now, I just don't see it. Yes, the company is competitive (and don't let the "do no evil" mantra fool you, so is every other major player out there!) Perhaps it comes with the territory, but I see many more application installations asking me if I want to install competitor products and have them checked by default. I'm not faulting the practice, as it's just a matter of business. But the double standards and age-old arguments against MS are just tiring.
Robert - have fun at Mix '07. If MS does indeed start to show some of what Don Dodge has been talking about, you won't be seeing "me too" comments in your posts from the event! That said, I don't have much faith that the "predatory" card players will be able to open their minds enough to see just how much MS is focusing on customer scenarios.
fifthdecade
· 2 years ago
Rob, what you and Microsoft call a customer is not the same as what the rest of the world calls a customer! What you are saying would more closely represent a customer as one of the corporations who load MS products onto PCs; for the rest of us it's the end users who sit at the keyboard and has to fight all the "customer friendly, user unfriendly" features, holes and instabilities.
rob
· 2 years ago
fifthdecade - You bring up a great point and a relevant one in this "innovator" thread. MS is one of few companies that even attempt to bridge the gap between "consumer" and "corporate" customers. When was the last time you saw Oracle or IBM pitch something to a consumer? Apple is primarily consumer and doesn't have to deal with corporate IT requirements (or their software would look very different indeed!) Google is probably more aligned with MS than anyone, especially with their foray into the enterprise apps space last week.
It's not an easy place to operate, which may explain your "customer friendly, user unfriendly" remark. Then again, I joined MS via acquistion a couple of years ago, and have used lots of non-MS operating systems and software over the years, some of it good and some bad. Everyone has a preference based on their experience, and the great news is that there is more choice now than ever before.
It would be nice if people would vote with their wallets and compete on their technical merits, rather than continuing the mud-slinging from the 90s.
The MS Live initiative is just getting started, and while it has some speedbumps (both technical and branding), it also has a very broad view of user scenarios over the next decade. You'll still have plenty of choice as both a consumer or corporate customer to run simple web-centric applications that Robert erroneously believes is the reason Microsoft "doesn't get it". Yes, there is a lot of uptake in web-only apps, but as Matt Cutts pointed out last week when jumping on a plane for a 10 hour trip back to San Francisco, he was hopeful for ubiquitous WiFi in the "next couple of years" because all of his apps rely on a net connection and was going to be very unproductive for those 10 hours.
Web 2.0 is so yesterday. The next generation, for so many reasons, is "hybrid" - online/offline, always available, from any device, authenticated and secure. That's the new MS, and I believe it speaks to all "people" - not just consumers or corporate users.
Stay tuned and stay active - I for one enjoy constuctive dialogue. Yes, here's one Microsoftie listening to YOU.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
Rob, don't take this the wrong way, but you don't matter. You're not in charge, Ballmer is. Until Ballmer either stops acting like he should be in charge of the only software company in the world by fiat, or the rest of the board gets tired of his lame shit and fires him, who CARES what the rank and file think?
You guys don't decide shit. Sorry truth, but it's the fact of life. Ballmer's in charge, his is the attitude that counts, and right now, he has the "If we can't beat Linux, we'll sue the users" attitude.
Screw that.
Kamal Jain
· 2 years ago
Thanks Rob. This is a good perspective to have. And I agree with most of what you said.
John, I am not sure what you mean. Both Rob and I matter in the Microsoft. Executives here have big ears. They listen to us and make their own opinion based on what we say.
(I am completely ignoring your personal bias against Ballmer. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it:) )
blogger@wordpress
· 2 years ago
"You guys don’t decide shit" Very untrue. I dont know what you base this opinion of yours on.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
Leadership 101.
The underlings only matter internally. When it comes to the outside world, the only voice that counts is the one from the top. Rob and you and everyone else at Microsoft can hold hands and have a big linux lovefest on top of the building with Ballmer's office, and it won't matter when compared with Ballmer (and gates to a lesser extent) saying they're thinking about suing linux users.
You can talk all you want internally. All that does is make you feel good. It's what people hear externally, and externally, there's one voice that matters, and if your name ain't ballmer, then it ain't yours.
The fact is, what has Microsoft actually *done* for linux interop?
Not much. They announce a lot, (Sun announcement from a few years ago anyone?), but when it comes to DOING much for interop, well, once you get outside of the Mac BU, it falls down.
Hell, OWA still requires IE on Windows, or you're still stuck in OWA Lite.
When you see all the statements from Microsoft showing that they haven't learned a damned thing, who's making them?
All linux steals Microsoft IP? Ballmer Linux is a cancer? Ballmer
But right. Of course, Ballmer never says any of that. it's just my personal bias.
Kamal Jain
· 2 years ago
John, I am ignoring your angry language. Instead responding to the content of your comments.
First, you are a bit inconsistent from your previous comment to this. In the previous comment you tried to say that our voice is not included in Ballmer's voice because what really mattered is one person's opinion. Now you are saying is that okay, our voice is included in Ballmer's voice but that's our internal matter.
You need to realize that Ballmer's voice is often not his personal voice only but a collective voice of the Microsoft, in the interest of Microsoft's customers, partners, employees, and share-holders.
This thread is not about Linux vs Microsoft. You should refrain from bringing in topics of independent interest. But I should point out that briefly that Microsoft on a daily basis fight with fear, uncertainty, and doubt of patent infringements. We ourselves license technologies, fight in courts, make settlements, pay penalties in case we lose. This is all in addition to creating our own technologies (90% of the time!). All this cost is built in the licencing fee of our software.
Diego
· 2 years ago
"But, it took a kicking from Google Maps to get the resources to do Virtual Earth."
Exactly! A lot of the wow associated with MS is when people say stuff like.. "Wow! Microsoft has done a Google Maps", or "Wow! Microsoft's Soapbox is a YouTube competitor". All sarcastic of course. ;)
Or... "Wow! Microsoft finally released Longhorn, um Vista."
Microsoft has no "Wow".
blogger@wordpress
· 2 years ago
"You guys don’t decide shit" John, when you say this Are you refering to the decisions that affect the products/services or the public statement that Ballmer makes?
If it is the former - its simply impossible to have that kind of control. There are close to 40000 employees in product development. Roughly 3-4 employees correspond to a single feature. We are talking about 8000-10000 individual features across all Microsoft products. INclude a error margin of 10%. Thats atleast 7200-9000 features. OUt of which let's assume 90% are simple not so important features. That still leaves us with 700 things. It's physically impossible for Ballmer or even bill gates to exert any meaningful control these things. Things like interoperability and cross platform would belong to this category too. So if OWA doesn't work on non-IE browser it's not because Ballmer asked them not to do it or that the OWA team doesn't like FIrefox. The team has a release target to meet. A schedule to adhere to. They try to prioritize things and put in as many features as possible. May be when firefox based access to an exchange server hits a reasonable amount they *would* do it.
Microsoft has done more for Linux interop than Apple has done for non-iTunes interop with iPod. (I normally hate to say 'they did it too'. I am just trying to make the point that nobody is going to do something just because it makes them feel good. It has to make economic sense and justify the cost involved)
Going back to the initial paragraph - if you are refering to how an individual softie doesn't affect what Ballmer says : I agree. CEOs are CEOs. They have to dance to the shareholders tunes. I would take issue with a statment that Bill Gates would make rather than one from SteveB.
"Name a single Microsoft Internet product/service that made you say “wow” in the past three years"
Name a single custom web business application made using a MS product/service that made you say wow in the past three years?
I lost count.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
This thread is not about Linux vs Microsoft. You should refrain from bringing in topics of independent interest.
It applies, because it has a great deal to do with how the outside world sees you, and it's still not good, esp. if you manage heterogenous networks, and get hit with the Microsoft "pain tax" for not being 100% windows.
But I should point out that briefly that Microsoft on a daily basis fight with fear, uncertainty, and doubt of patent infringements.
Speaking as someone who has been the recipient of the full on MS FUD campaign targeted at IT for years, please, let me say this:
Wah.
We ourselves license technologies, fight in courts, make settlements, pay penalties in case we lose. This is all in addition to creating our own technologies (90% of the time!).
Yes, again, the IT field is well aware of Microsoft's growing addiction to the NIH crack. It's yet another way Microsoft causes you pain in a heterogenous network.
All this cost is built in the licencing fee of our software.
Oh, we know that. We see it every time we look at the what, 6 versions of Vista (dude, the only purpose for that is to vacuum money) and the what, 8, 9 versions of Office 2007, the complete dilution of both the Office and Windows branding, (what's next, Windows MSN Office Live for Workgroups?), the licensing schemes that make you seriously doubt your sanity, etc.
We know what we're paying for. However, we also realize that in many cases, we don't have to face Redmond for everything we need, and now, instead of HAVING to use Microsoft products, we use them when they best fit the needs. You guys don't do so well when that comes up.
All those years of arrogance and running roughshod over IT? That's what you're paying for now.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
John, I am ignoring your angry language. Instead responding to the content of your comments.
When Microsoft stops doing stupid shit that makes my job suck, I'll be less angry at them.
First, you are a bit inconsistent from your previous comment to this. In the previous comment you tried to say that our voice is not included in Ballmer’s voice because what really mattered is one person’s opinion. Now you are saying is that okay, our voice is included in Ballmer’s voice but that’s our internal matter.
No, i'm saying that internally, people hear and pay attention to what you say, including contradictions between teams. Externally, the only voice that matters is Ballmer's. Everyone else can have an interop polka party, but when Ballmer starts talking the stupid, then his voice wins. Always. So, your love or lack thereof of interop is meaningless. Ballmer hates Linux, ergo, Microsoft hates Linux. Don't like it? Quit, or get a new voice for your company.
You need to realize that Ballmer’s voice is often not his personal voice only but a collective voice of the Microsoft, in the interest of Microsoft’s customers, partners, employees, and share-holders.
You need to realize that voice makes Microsoft look like it hasn't learned a damned thing since 1997.
Will
· 2 years ago
Local.live.com did make me wow - but I'm away from home using a mac with a 3G mobile internet connection.
local.live doesn't work with safari, so I have to use firefox but it won't load at all over this connection.
maps.google.co.uk wins - works perfectly and impressively fast considering the connection speed.
Keith Patrick
· 2 years ago
John, why would Microsoft integrate CVS/Subversion into Visual Studio? They already have 2 competing products (SourceSafe and Team Foundation), AND they allow for 3rd party source control to plug-in. The sell a competitive product and they put hooks in for others to integrate with their environment, so they've done all they need to in good faith in that area, IMO
Colby
· 2 years ago
This blog has way too many topics on Google and Microsoft (and, to a lesser extent, Apple). Talk about something besides these for a nice change of pace! :)
And I think that's far cooler than anything Google, Apple, or other Microsoft projects in years. And I'm not alone, as Microsoft won the "Innovator of the Year" and "Game Innovation of the Year" awards at the 2006 DEMMX awards, both for XNA. http://www.demmx.com/demmx/awards/2006.jsp
As a reference, note that Apple won the "Television Technology of the Year" for the Video iPod, and Google won nothing (though they were nominated for "brand of the year").
Office 2007 is pretty wowable too. But that's me. Internet services, Robert's passion, bore me to tears.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Colby: you must have missed where last week I talked about Amazon. :-)
XNA is cool, but it's not aimed at the Internet. Unless you know something I don't.
Google isn't into gaming, so I wouldn't expect to hear about Google at that conference.
YouTube won Visionary of the Year there. Hint: that's now a Google property.
They also won best Video on Demand Service. So, Google won two prizes there.
Which is more likely to make billions of dollars to contribute to the bottom lines? XNA or YouTube?
I'll take YouTube every day of the week, sorry.
Interesting that Wii didn't win, even though I know tons of people who are trading in their Xbox 360s (I'm not, I still don't like the Wii) for the Wii.
Rob: tomorrow I'll be at Adobe. They have a much better cross-platform story. Their stuff is being used by the world's biggest sites where WPF is mostly being ignored. I'll report more from Adobe tomorrow.
blogger@wordpress
· 2 years ago
"I still don’t like the Wii"
Are you from Mars?
Victor Riley
· 2 years ago
This is an old product but perhaps a new application of it. I've been using PowerPoint and Excel with VBA (on both sides) to build interactive prototypes of user interfaces and use them for portable usability testing. People are amazed that PowerPoint can be so fully interactive, and even more so when they see that user inputs can be captured automatically and recorded to Excel with time tags. I started developing these little prototypes to resolve design issues on interfaces I'm working on, and I'm more amazed by how flexible and powerful the environment is for this application the more I learn about it.
On the corporate culture question, I think MSFT's biggest problem is Steve Balmer's apparent belief that any problem can be overcome by grit and determination. It seems to me that in tech, creativity and flexibility will beat shear determination any day, and that saying you innovate all the time doesn't necessarily mean that you do.
kfsone
· 2 years ago
All I can say is: Kudos to the exec who chose not to buy Flickr. That would have been a bad move for MS. People are tired of seeing innovations swallowed by MS and then vomited out again years later by the MS-hype machine.
And there's no real, long-term stability for Microsoft to gain in buying itself into a market that is too fast and dynamic for the behemoth to stay in tune with.
Some of you think Microsoft is a software company. It isn't. It's an operating system developer. Microsoft's field of excellence is long-term, mature staples: operating systems, stock-business services (excel, word, powerpoint, visual studio).
Where Microsoft struggles is where people have convinced the giant that it can do all things. It can't. Microsoft games are just outright laughable. How many Xbox 1s sold last quarter? 10,000 units? Compared to how many prev-gen PS2s?
When Microsoft design a keyboard, they wind up with a wireless keyboard that has a state that enables/disables function keys, with no hard default toggle - the only way a user can get a keyboard which has working function keys is to buy a different model...
If MS had bought Flickr, they wouldn't have known what to do with it. If you think otherwise, you really need to take a step back and recover your sanity, because you've become part of Microsoft's disease. And note the use of the posessive - I didn't say Microsoft is a disease; but it has one. Maybe it's caught it from wearing IBM's old panties.
Vista is the worst tragedy to happen to Microsoft. It's a collection of cool with no real raison de etra. Exactly what the OpenSource/Linux community has been giving that us for years. Exactly what kept Linux off desktops. Now Vista is full of the same annoying, trashy featurettes, fluff, bloat and frippery that Gnome or KDE are. Because Apple lovers "helped shape" Windows XP into a new operating system, worrying less about the real issues that Windows had, technically as an operating system, and more about nuances that, frankly, Microsoft had already mastered and outclassed anything anyone else is going to offer for years to come.
But that expertise has been slowly drowning in the derth of buy-ups Microsoft has gobbled up. So I'm never the least bit surprized that Microsoft can't ship software. You've forgotten that software isn't all made the same.
Years ago I inspired a group of guys to take their product to Microsoft. Someone at MS saw great potential in their product and in short order their product was part of Windows. I was thrilled something I'd been a part of would now be a standard feature of Windows.
But MS had no natural grasp of this new aquisition, no real understanding other than that it 'had potential' and, slashdots inferences aside, MS lacked the ability to assimilate everything about the little company that had brewed up that product.
Transfered from the rich stew of entrepreneurial startup to the watery, piss-like broth of MS's development stagnation, it died a pointless death while simultaneously setting back that market sector by years. Rod Toll/ShadowFactor's GameVoice product.
Microsoft needs to climb out of some of the beds it has climbed into. You said yourself, "Growth comes from startups, not Microsoft partners". Well then quit buying stuff up, because everybody else knows what happens if you go through the pains of creating an MS-derived startup and actually look like turning a profit.
It's not a technology issue, Windows (well, XP, not Vista) is perfectly capable of turning out successful startups, but the process is so insidious and so costly with Windows that the kinds of individuals and teams you need to innovate something are more likely to turn elsewhere or skip the process entirely.
Over the years I've known several teams who've given up on a concept in the early funding stages because they know that if they take the Windows route, that their investors are going to be looking to get an MS-buyout before they break even and can secure their own independence.
Hell - this is exactly what we're seeing Microsoft, intentionally or not, try to do to its gaming sector. MS has done appallingly in that market - but it doesn't have the good sense to give up and focus on what it used to do really well - provisioning - instead it's trying to choke the independence out of the market so it can snatch up anything seems to make money. An abject failure to understand how money is made in that sector.
The whole Dx10/Vista Games concept is blatant thumb sucking by people who can't make games insisting that the people who can not only accept MS have a hand round their throat but that they smile for the camera too.
"Microsoft is run by people who ... don’t see the value in Web stuff"
If you want to work for a web company, please do so. Microsoft is not a web company, and it is too huge to try and become one.
"If Microsoft gets the marketing teams, the executives who are constantly reorging teams, the bean counters who don’t want to spend money to acquire interesting companies, out of the way, watch out."
Yes - because it might actually grow in a positively received fashion if it were actually to do what it does best instead of turning out backwards, arm-twisting-required still-borns like Vista.
If you like what Amazon is doing, go work for them or buy shares in them.
They're pulling in customers because they specialize in what they're doing. They're good at it, and they deliver a great product.
None of that will be true if those technologies are bought up by Microsoft.
They are doing it and doing it well because its something they do; Microsoft aren't doing it because its not something Microsoft do, and buying it wouldn't change that fact.
But if you can't desist in buying stuff your corporation isn't competent to build/innovate in the first place, then please do all of us - and your stock values - a huge favor and separate out the part of the company that creates Windows. Its the single biggest favor you could do the universe and protect that precious investment so that whatever whimsies and fads you persuade the software company into, our computers will be protected from it.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
KFSone: I stopped reading when you said Microsoft's games are laughable. Halo 2.0 sold the most games in history. The most. What part of that don't you understand? People waited in lines for hours to buy them.
Microsoft makes billions of dollars off of advertising on the Internet. It's an Internet company.
They make billions of dollars off of SQL Server. That isn't an OS.
They make billions of dollars off of Office. That isn't an OS.
I'd rather go read feeds from someone who at least makes a decent argument. Sigh.
sam64
· 2 years ago
I get it now! Microsoft partnering up with Firefox was an attempt to kill it!
bla
· 2 years ago
Old men moaning...that’s what I see ...having some pointless discussion about who is hot and who is not- pointless as talking about the weather...go and have some friends, or make some babies...or stop your president from ruining you country! That would be innovative for a change….ha ha ha… no…you rather whine the "GooglevsMSvsLinuxvsApplevsFirefoxvsVSvsEcliplsevsJavavsvsVistavsXPvsC#vsFlahvsBlavsBlablablablabla" pattern - as probably the least innovative of all time...
foobar
· 2 years ago
I work at MS and have had most of the projects I've worked on over the past year cut - for no real reason and at the moment when we were ready to ship. WTF? If our managers are so bright then why couldn't they let us know about a decision to cut a product earlier in the development (or perhaps design) cycle? What a waste... but I guess that's why they get paid so much.
Don
· 2 years ago
Scoble,
Dude I lost all of the little respect I had for you. Channel9 was cool and you were such a Microsoft cheer leader. Every video was "wow this is so cool! We (microsoft) are doing so many great things!"
Now less than a year out of the company you are basicallly bad mouthing the company.
Have you ever written software or just talked about it?
Have you ever sat in a meeting and said ok we have N amount of weeks, N developers ,N features what can we build in this time. Oh yeah we still have to worry about backward compatability and still ship a good product.
How can you compare Amazon to Microsoft? Amazon is a retail store. Their web services are for people to integrate into their store. Do we really care how big their data center is? No.
If Microsoft actually did what Apple did and said F backward compatibility you would be so suprised by what could be done.
Why would MS buy flicker? For Ads? That is a crazy idea. I will be glad when people truly start looking at the future of software as software not as retail store or an ad engine or search. Yes those are all important things but without core software you can't get them done.
I think we are looking at a hype much like the internet boom. Everyone is rushing to be the next Google. I truly don't know what Google has done that warrants stock of $490/share.
I have a test for you take all of the big software companies. Imagine what would happen if you could just make all of their software stop working for 24 hours.
If google was gone would it make a difference in you life? No.
If all Microsoft software just paused for 24 hours all hell would break loose!
Think about it.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Don: you're so clueless it isn't even funny.
Don
· 2 years ago
So can you give me a clue?
Can you tell me how you just change your story over night?
Can you tell me where I'm clueless?
I will admit to being clueless if you can will just answer two question. Have you ever written ship quality code in a real product or just talk about it? Also have you personally innovated any software product that was used by more than 100k people?
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
The first clue is I've already answered that question hundreds of times. Go do your own homework. The answer is in the blogosphere if you need to look. It's pretty obvious you haven't been reading me for more than a month if you need to ask a question like that.
don
· 2 years ago
Your right I haven't been reading for more than a month I got sick of you on channel9 with all of the crazy laughing you would do in the microphone. God that was annoying.
It is not that important to me to go do homework on you. So, based on your response I will just assume you have a very limited knowledge of actually creating software vs. talking about.
Feel free to call me names and act like a child because I'm to busy creating new software than doing research on the "scobleizer."
Good luck i'm sure you will make a fortune giving an opinion on things where you have no real knowledge.
All Comments
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/
..stock prices change like the wind and Britney's hair....
Paul: Microsoft's stock price hasn't changed much in four years. Very flat. When I joined Microsoft four years ago the price was $26. What's it at today? $29.50? Compare to Apple or Google.
ASP.Net 2.0, primarily the WebParts customization (came from the older Sharepoint, though) and skinning. The databinding is pretty nice, but lacking in a few areas; the WPF databinding (and, well, WPF in general) is more of a "Wow" than ASP.Net's, though
Remember Newsgator and how we were both impressed? Well the new version of Outlook has an RSS reader built in that works just like Newsgator. It is great! An RSS reader is also built into IE 7. In this case Microsoft was a "fast follower". Not fast enough for us geeks, but well ahead of the curve for the average user.
I think the Xbox 360 has made a few people go Wow! The Zune introduced a new way to share music wirelessly. The next version of Zune will be really cool. But in most cases Microsoft isn't all about Wow.
Microsoft's main businesses serve developers and IT people. They aren't looking for Wow!, they want steady improvements in quality, performance, integration, and reliable features.
I think Office Live is going to meet the Google challenge. Microsoft already has blogs, wikis, RSS readers, and will increasingly incorporate web based services seamlessly with client and server based products. This might not be sexy, but it is highly productive.
Microsoft acquired 19 companies last year and 22 the year before. These were mostly small startups with cool technology and strong development teams. JJ Allaire and the Onfolio team is one example.
I would say that Microsoft is doing the right things to avoid being caught in the Innovators Dilemma trap. Being a "fast follower" may not be sexy, but it is smart. Acquiring innovative startups is also smart. And then there is Ray Ozzie, who BTW came from another Microsoft acquisition, Groove Networks. Ray has big plans, and I would never bet against Ray.
Microsoft is very quickly moving itself to dinasour status without any help from the users - it is happening from the top down and that will be its downfall
Oh, and what happened to Onfolio? They promptly dropped their Firefox support when they joined Microsoft.
Microsoft is its own worst enemy.
It also isn't buying best of breed companies in the social software space. Onfolio was close, but they killed it when they killed the Firefox version.
How about leaving the market analysis to the professionals? If you are in it for the short term, well, good luck with that chase. I'm sure you realize that all three stocks are rated as a "buy" by many analysts?
And if, for some reason, Microsoft completely tanks, runs out of business, or the like, they would deny they had anything to do with it.
Visual Studio 2005.
How much does the "wow" factor help the bottomline anyway? It generates a lot of buzz in the blogosphere and in 'parties' that the bloggers attend(btw the A list blogosphere is becoming pretty much like the rich and famous circle of hollywood. You've got your own jargons, market indicators and parties and starting to forget that there is a world outside the tech conferences and blogger parties.)
What about the "wow" Java generated? Not long back Red Hat Linux was the challenger to Windows. It "wow"-ed a lot of people. Where are these 2 right now?
And how much of a "wow" did XP generate? XBOX 360? Except Win95 which other Microsoft product has wow-ed the public on release?
How many companies have been able to do this consistently - even outside the software world?
Minimsft does indicate that there are tons of problems inside Ma-MSFT. But this is a company of >70K smart aggressive employees. Do you expect anything less?
Microsoft may fall. But it won't be because it didn't WOW the market.
If they would only hold EVERYTHING up to this statement , it would be wonderful.....
I think you're bemoaning the lack of funky consumer apps with glossy graded fills.
But perhaps MSFT rightly puts all its smartest brains into the parts of its business that underpin large portions of our tech-based society. Windows, .NET, SQL Server etc etc.
I guess it has a moral obligation do so.
Contrast with Google's fast-and-looseness. Very exciting to watch. But perhaps they're not (yet) mature enough to realise the depth of their responsibilities.
Watever: it wasn't Ballmer who wrote me that email. The problem is a lot bigger and deeper than him.
Then how come it got smoked by both the PS2 and the Wii in January? How come the 360 has *never* outsold the PS2?
"The Xbox 360: So amazing, that only the PS2 and the Wii are more popular."
The Zune introduced a new way to share music wirelessly.
No, it introduced a new way to demo music via mandatory involuntary DRM that on occasion violates the license the music is created and distributed under.
"demo" and "share" are not the same things, which is why the are two different words.
Oh, and what happened to Onfolio? They promptly dropped their Firefox support when they joined Microsoft.
Well of COURSE they did. You don't expect Ballmer to support stinking Linux users until every distro is paying him off do you?
Xbox Live/Xbox Live Arcade is the closest thing that has gotten a “Wow” from me. It’s also the the most impressive online console service out there, is a big time revenue generator, and makes the boys at Sony and Nintendo insanely jealous.
Sony maybe. Nintendo hardly. They're putting up classic (S)NES/N64/Sega games and people are downloading them like mad. Nintendo is simply not playing the same tired game, and it's why they're kicking the shit out of the Xbox and the PSX
Microsoft may fall. But it won’t be because it didn’t WOW the market.
No, they'll fail because they still shoot for "good enough" and the competition is shooting for "outstanding" and "excellent", and no matter how big you are, eventually, "good enough" loses. Ask IBM where their dominance went. They'll fail because no one trusts anything they say. WinFS and the bullshit that was the Vista/Longhorn promise train was a nail in that coffin. The killing of WM's cross - platform support, craptacular as it was, put another nail in that coffin. WPF/E's Linux support being left to "anyone but Microsoft?" Another nail.
There's really nothing Microsoft is doing that is outstanding. It's all just me too.
Zune? iPod Me Too
WPF/E? Flash Me Too
People Near Me? Zeroconf Me Too
This isn't the 90s when people by and large were too ignorant to know better, but Microsoft is still playing the same game, and the blame all goes to Ballmer. Fire him, make Gates retire early, let Ozzie have ultimate cosmic power ala Jobs at Apple, and you may see Microsoft start being excellent. But the same players and the same plan? no way.
Also, if Nintendo doesn't start shipping some games soon, the Wii party is going to over pretty quickly.
This is true if he was moving to Google, Amazon, yahoo or the likes. But he is moving to a startup. It could simply be that he wants to work in a less constrained place.
Bright people leaving is never good. But it indicates a much serious problem when they join your direct competitor.
The other interesting thing about Microsoft is that its not a monlithic org. You really have to talk to atleast half a dozen from each of the individual orgs if you want to make a guess based on their opinions.
Google earth is great, but then again is MSFT's Virtual Earth abd they beat Google to the puch with certain features.
Youtube, pretty cool, but once again it has yet to prove it's a viable/Profitable buisness model.
In fact Google reminds me more of MSFT every day, they make all their money on ad revenues through search,they've been doing this for several years now and really don't seem to show anything else matching this buisness model's potential.
Yahoo, same thing, lots of potential but thay have thier problems.
Ok. How many companies have delivered *ALL* that they promised? GooTube announced they are buying filtering software - For about 6 months they have been talking about an internal solution that will come online to tackle that issue. So they are dead too?
"let Ozzie have ultimate cosmic power ala Jobs at Apple"
and do what? *GROW* windows to 5.1% market share?
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAH.
Of course, when you have nothing else, bust out the fanboy tag.
Lame, but hey, it's the internet, Lame is the way of things.
Actually, I go after bloggers FAR more than Microsoft, and if you look at how many positive articles I have about Microsoft Mac BU products, that whole "OMGJOHNHATESMS!!!" argument kind of fades. But in my ~20 years of IT work, the pain in my ass has had a Windows logo more than any single other company. Microsoft don't like it? Stop being a pain in my ass.
besides, I'm far meaner to the Acrobat team. I spend thousands of words figuring out new ways to call them stupid. Microsoft is just a big stupid kid by comparison.
I do find it interesting how in a search for "microsoft" on your site, I can't find one article that is even mildly critical of Microsoft. Hmm...yet I'm the Apple Fanboy? Funny that.
Cast out the beam in thine own eye before thou pointest out the mote in mine.
wow
I was pleasantly surprised by Yahoo! Pipes - a Wow service that came out of a company that I didn't expect it from. That's the kind of stuff I've come to expect from Google. If Yahoo can do it, maybe there's hope for MS.
I'll revise: your blog seems to be nothing but one big complaint. I hope you enjoy that aneurysm.
Nice close reading of my blog, by the way. *yawn*
Remember your post 'Demo of the Year'?? From what I read there, it made you WOW too.
http://scobleizer.com/2006/11/10/demo-of-the-ye...
Granted, it's still nothing more than a tech preview until you're able to upload your own pictures, but it certainly WOWs.
It's all about first mover advantage on the web, whether to establish your brand synonomously with a new type of service, or to establish a network effect that prevents fast followers. As Rob points out, MS execs never want to take the risk of moving first and being wrong.
>that made you say “wow” in the past three years”
>Visual Studio 2005.
"Wow! This thing sure does crash a lot!"
Seriously, though, 2005 is close to excellent. I though 2003, minus some performance and file locking issues, was pretty damn good. If Hawaii (the next major release, IIRC) is a major update that streamlines and stabilizes the IDE, with a ribbon, hopefully, I can go "Wow!"
Given their footprint, Microsoft has to put most of their effort into maintaining the applications that underpin most of the world's business. They don't have the luxury to take Google's "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" approach. They'll move more slowly, but can build on a foundation none of their rivals can match.
Nice close reading of my blog, by the way. *yawn*
Translation: "How DARE you point out my flaws while I'm whining about yours. My own fanboyism is absolutely immaterial in the face of yours."
Again, whining about how I read your writing when it's obvious how little you read mine?
Pot
Kettle
Black
Lemme qualify “2005 is close to excellent” with “2005 sp1 w/ Orcas is close to excellent”
Microsoft ever get around to built-in CVS/SVN support?
Given their footprint, Microsoft has to put most of their effort into maintaining the applications that underpin most of the world’s business. They don’t have the luxury to take Google’s “throw it against the wall and see if it sticks” approach. They’ll move more slowly, but can build on a foundation none of their rivals can match.
Comment by Sprague Dawley — February 23, 2007 @ 5:00
Yes, but the problem here is that Google has become good at throwing things at the wall, but unfortunatly nothing seems to be sticking to the wall.
They don't want to throw stuff at the things that are stuck, they try to throw stuff at empty places on the wall at the same time stick stuff to the things already on the wall.
The business world is a messy world.
Very cool products - SCOM, SCE, SCCM, Powershell, Exchange 2007
This off the top of my head - but the above is in the enterprise space, where real money is made as opposed to the high failure rate of startups.
OK, they don't have a "social networking" feature to keep the short attention span of "A-listers", but they are great pieces of technology. A-listers wouldn't know what to do if they were faced with actually designing, deploying and supporting them - which in my opinion is the REAL IT world, not a circle-jerking bubble.
Apologies for not signing my name the way you expect it - I'm too busy doing REAL work to spend time on maintaining another echo chamber.
One solution Microsoft has, because they have Bill Buxton’s expertise. They have a good solution, but maybe they do not know it. It depends on how Kevin types.
I have looked at Vista features on the internet and know that Vista is designed for old technology, the keyboard and mouse. For the old keyboard and mouse Vista is advanced technology, but for the keyboard of the future, the interface is kind of old technology.
From my keyboard of the future, you get the interface of the future. Don Norman recently had an article discussing interfaces. See my comment, google: inputexpert.
The interface of the future is a personal interface. We have the personal computer.
Why not a personal interface?
What is a personal interface?
I read Don Dodge’s blog a while ago and got the impression that microsoft does not buy companies for less than fifty million.
Innovation. What is innovation? Don Dodge discussed microsoft innovation on his blog. Interesting read.
Don, if you want innovation, you can buy my company for fifty million and have innovation.
Where do you find innovation?
Between the ears!
Do you need a lot of money? No.
Ray Ozzie, kick ass, take names, GO Ray Ozzie!
GANBATTE!
I saw an article on Bill Gates sitting in front of three screens using a keyboard and mouse.
You only need one screen and the keyboard of the future.
Bill Gates, you are the KING. Why do your people let you use old technology? Is it the KING has no clothes thing.
I am sad the KING will leave the building in two years. I am happy about what he is going to do.
Go Bill!
Kevin, I will send you one of my keyboards or get one from a licensee maybe Dell, HP, or Apple when they are made.
I was reading where Kevin said the people get ten minutes to present their project to Bill and Jim at techfest.
I would need only three minutes to dazzle them.
It is late.
from the “father of the perfect keyboard”
Robert, it's interesting that the web startups you're talking to aren't choosing Microsoft right now. Let's see what happens when WPF/E starts to motor.
I suspect a lot of developers are going to like that...
Following Windows Live as we do, no one is more frustrated right now with MS than LiveSide, but short term splash isn't as important to MS as long term goals. What's the ratio of Hotmail users to Gmail? 10 to 1? 100 to 1? More? I would consider the backend work on Hotmail to be pretty innovative. With far more users, Hotmail is far more stable, at 2g now and moving to 4g, and ready to add in cloud storage pieces. It's not flash in the pan, it's good solid steady working infrastructure that's going to be solid and available for a long time.
As for an innovation from MS, take a look at Windows Home Server. Got some beta glitches of course, but the way Home Server approaches backup just rocks.
Nobody likes their project to be cut, for sure. And yes Sinofsky and company are pulling in the reins. Funny but when Windows Live was announced, the idea was for the kids from Red West to teach Windows a thing or two about shipping, but now it seems like Windows is teaching MSN how to move at a snail's pace. As frustrating as that is to report on, in the long run it may be a necessary approach. Good solid steady gains at the expense of no buzz at Robert's A List parties. Let's see where things stand in 2 years.
http://scobleizer.com/2006/11/30/microsoft-beat...
What's a mashup? I'm seeing Virtual Earth applications in both 2D and 3D every single day, from hot real estate sites like http://www.redfin.com to slick enthusiast sites like Harley Davidson's Great Roads Explorer (see Jeff Henshaw's http://jeff.henshaw.org/?p=205) - the great thing about Virtual Earth is that it's ONE application that supports what Google does with two (Gmaps and Gearth). I look forward to what Chandu Thota will create on the platform.
I think it's important to watch what start-ups are doing. Start-ups are often the source of neat innovations. Large companies (yes, even Apple) are best at seeing cool innovations from start-ups or academia and finding ways to turn those ideas into real products that make money. Robert, I envy your access to the world of start-ups because you get to see so much cool stuff. But you should always be careful to maintain perspective. Of the hundreds of start-ups you see, how many will actually survive two years? Even one year? Of the survivors, how many will actually become highly successful businesses? If you define "highly successful" by being acquired by Google then there will be quite a few. But how many will actually be successful on their own?
I go back to your earlier comments on how all the cool dudes are using Flash. For every cool dude that's using Flash there are hundreds or thousands who are using .NET or Java or Web standards. Don't let the bright and shiny objects distract you too much! ;)
Mobile search? Not ahead of others in the market in enough of a way to "wow" me.
Chandu Thota was one of the best people at M$FT - he was even cooler than $latex e^{i\pi}=1$... I blame Mini-Microsoft for the malaise...
As a geek you have to close your eyes to not see wow in Microsoft online services.
The biggest wow I see in Microsoft services is how well they are integrated with each other. Our services work much better together than the other guy. The whole seems to be much bigger than the sum of the parts.
In terms of integration we are years ahead, say from Google. Our UI of pretty much any service is much better than any service out there. If Google Map wowed you over Terraserver, then Virtual Earth should wow you even more over Google maps. The latter is equal advance if not more of the state of the art as former was.
Every major player seems to be jumping on Virtual Earth. Just yesterday I noticed that weather.com use virtual Earth for their interactive weather maps. I do not know since when. But it did wow me.
I'd like to know what you mean by "better integrated" though. Got some more examples? I don't see them. I also don't think that's really a huge advantage. At least not yet.
Has anyone switched from Flickr to a "better integrated" photosharing service? Has anyone switched from Google to a "better integrated" search service? Has anyone switched from Craigslist to a "better integrated" classified advertising service? Has anyone switched from Del.icio.us to a "better integrated" bookmarking service?
I know exactly what can be done in a web browser, and I think it's astonishingly cool (more on this from me in a few months).
And I do agree with you that it's very unfortunate people like Chandu Thota are leaving the company, but that doesn't change my perception that many web startups are operating in a me-too mode.
Better integrated. The very first thing is the uniform UI. All the live services have similar look and feel. You can pretty much say from the look and feel itself whether a page is a live page. Now, from one live services you can go to another related live service conveniently. For an example search something on live search and you would see all the related search services in the menu bar quite conveniently (I like them on IE6 better than on IE7 though). Sure Google has this too but on a Live search page you would see your search macros too. A personalization feature!
Now look at the soapbox page. Like a video. Press the share button and you will see all the live services which you may like to use for the share feature. I like the IM feature there! This is not at the expense of other things. It still have all other sharing features.
From a user (non-geek) perspective what's a desktop OS? A bundle of softwares which let a user use the desktop effectively. What's a Web OS? A bundle of services which let a user use the web effectively.
I am not a Geek. But I though a geek like you would notice the Microsoft's Web OS under development. The market success would depend upon many things. But a geek should be able to see the technology and the vision. Creating a Web OS is not a guarantee of market success but it is definitely a necessary component.
It was November 2005, when we announces Web OS. Go to http://ideas.live.com and the development looks amazing. That's a wow! In 15 months with much less number of employees in our Live divisions. We have a technology parity in pretty much in every area and a lead in some.
Do not get confused with our market share in some of the services with the lack of wow factor. Contrary to the popular myth that there is no switching cost, most online services do have switching cost for users. Craigslist users have switching cost (it is a two sided market with huge networking effect). But http://expo.live.com is among the largest classified after craigslist (which has a huge lead).
From investment point of view yes there is nothing wow yet (in online services). But from a techonolgy point of view, everything has an element of wow. The question will be to move the former wow from the latter.
Read the following article for proof.
http://news.com.com/Microsofts+standards+choice...
One interesting point among many...
"Not only it is demanded that OOXML abide by more standards than ISO's own ODF does, but also that the format used for metafiles from 1999 be used. It seems like it would prevent some nice features developed in the last 8 years for no other reason than "there was a standard for it". "
As an ex-Microsoftie, Robert is now in the enviable position of becoming more objective on MS technologies and motivations. I was interested to read his impressions looking in from the outside, and how MS has a completely MS view of the world...that was probably true up to about a year ago.
But I'm curious what his perspective is on people who use the "predatory" card. Working on the inside now, I just don't see it. Yes, the company is competitive (and don't let the "do no evil" mantra fool you, so is every other major player out there!) Perhaps it comes with the territory, but I see many more application installations asking me if I want to install competitor products and have them checked by default. I'm not faulting the practice, as it's just a matter of business. But the double standards and age-old arguments against MS are just tiring.
Robert - have fun at Mix '07. If MS does indeed start to show some of what Don Dodge has been talking about, you won't be seeing "me too" comments in your posts from the event! That said, I don't have much faith that the "predatory" card players will be able to open their minds enough to see just how much MS is focusing on customer scenarios.
It's not an easy place to operate, which may explain your "customer friendly, user unfriendly" remark. Then again, I joined MS via acquistion a couple of years ago, and have used lots of non-MS operating systems and software over the years, some of it good and some bad. Everyone has a preference based on their experience, and the great news is that there is more choice now than ever before.
It would be nice if people would vote with their wallets and compete on their technical merits, rather than continuing the mud-slinging from the 90s.
The MS Live initiative is just getting started, and while it has some speedbumps (both technical and branding), it also has a very broad view of user scenarios over the next decade. You'll still have plenty of choice as both a consumer or corporate customer to run simple web-centric applications that Robert erroneously believes is the reason Microsoft "doesn't get it". Yes, there is a lot of uptake in web-only apps, but as Matt Cutts pointed out last week when jumping on a plane for a 10 hour trip back to San Francisco, he was hopeful for ubiquitous WiFi in the "next couple of years" because all of his apps rely on a net connection and was going to be very unproductive for those 10 hours.
Web 2.0 is so yesterday. The next generation, for so many reasons, is "hybrid" - online/offline, always available, from any device, authenticated and secure. That's the new MS, and I believe it speaks to all "people" - not just consumers or corporate users.
Stay tuned and stay active - I for one enjoy constuctive dialogue. Yes, here's one Microsoftie listening to YOU.
You guys don't decide shit. Sorry truth, but it's the fact of life. Ballmer's in charge, his is the attitude that counts, and right now, he has the "If we can't beat Linux, we'll sue the users" attitude.
Screw that.
John, I am not sure what you mean. Both Rob and I matter in the Microsoft. Executives here have big ears. They listen to us and make their own opinion based on what we say.
(I am completely ignoring your personal bias against Ballmer. You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to ignore it:) )
Very untrue. I dont know what you base this opinion of yours on.
The underlings only matter internally. When it comes to the outside world, the only voice that counts is the one from the top. Rob and you and everyone else at Microsoft can hold hands and have a big linux lovefest on top of the building with Ballmer's office, and it won't matter when compared with Ballmer (and gates to a lesser extent) saying they're thinking about suing linux users.
You can talk all you want internally. All that does is make you feel good. It's what people hear externally, and externally, there's one voice that matters, and if your name ain't ballmer, then it ain't yours.
The fact is, what has Microsoft actually *done* for linux interop?
Not much. They announce a lot, (Sun announcement from a few years ago anyone?), but when it comes to DOING much for interop, well, once you get outside of the Mac BU, it falls down.
Hell, OWA still requires IE on Windows, or you're still stuck in OWA Lite.
When you see all the statements from Microsoft showing that they haven't learned a damned thing, who's making them?
Why, it's ballmer:
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?...
All linux steals Microsoft IP? Ballmer
Linux is a cancer? Ballmer
But right. Of course, Ballmer never says any of that. it's just my personal bias.
First, you are a bit inconsistent from your previous comment to this. In the previous comment you tried to say that our voice is not included in Ballmer's voice because what really mattered is one person's opinion. Now you are saying is that okay, our voice is included in Ballmer's voice but that's our internal matter.
You need to realize that Ballmer's voice is often not his personal voice only but a collective voice of the Microsoft, in the interest of Microsoft's customers, partners, employees, and share-holders.
This thread is not about Linux vs Microsoft. You should refrain from bringing in topics of independent interest. But I should point out that briefly that Microsoft on a daily basis fight with fear, uncertainty, and doubt of patent infringements. We ourselves license technologies, fight in courts, make settlements, pay penalties in case we lose. This is all in addition to creating our own technologies (90% of the time!). All this cost is built in the licencing fee of our software.
Exactly! A lot of the wow associated with MS is when people say stuff like.. "Wow! Microsoft has done a Google Maps", or "Wow! Microsoft's Soapbox is a YouTube competitor". All sarcastic of course. ;)
Or... "Wow! Microsoft finally released Longhorn, um Vista."
Microsoft has no "Wow".
John, when you say this Are you refering to the decisions that affect the products/services or the public statement that Ballmer makes?
If it is the former - its simply impossible to have that kind of control. There are close to 40000 employees in product development. Roughly 3-4 employees correspond to a single feature. We are talking about 8000-10000 individual features across all Microsoft products. INclude a error margin of 10%. Thats atleast 7200-9000 features. OUt of which let's assume 90% are simple not so important features. That still leaves us with 700 things. It's physically impossible for Ballmer or even bill gates to exert any meaningful control these things. Things like interoperability and cross platform would belong to this category too. So if OWA doesn't work on non-IE browser it's not because Ballmer asked them not to do it or that the OWA team doesn't like FIrefox. The team has a release target to meet. A schedule to adhere to. They try to prioritize things and put in as many features as possible. May be when firefox based access to an exchange server hits a reasonable amount they *would* do it.
Microsoft has done more for Linux interop than Apple has done for non-iTunes interop with iPod. (I normally hate to say 'they did it too'. I am just trying to make the point that nobody is going to do something just because it makes them feel good. It has to make economic sense and justify the cost involved)
Going back to the initial paragraph - if you are refering to how an individual softie doesn't affect what Ballmer says : I agree. CEOs are CEOs. They have to dance to the shareholders tunes. I would take issue with a statment that Bill Gates would make rather than one from SteveB.
Name a single custom web business application made using a MS product/service that made you say wow in the past three years?
I lost count.
It applies, because it has a great deal to do with how the outside world sees you, and it's still not good, esp. if you manage heterogenous networks, and get hit with the Microsoft "pain tax" for not being 100% windows.
But I should point out that briefly that Microsoft on a daily basis fight with fear, uncertainty, and doubt of patent infringements.
Speaking as someone who has been the recipient of the full on MS FUD campaign targeted at IT for years, please, let me say this:
Wah.
We ourselves license technologies, fight in courts, make settlements, pay penalties in case we lose. This is all in addition to creating our own technologies (90% of the time!).
Yes, again, the IT field is well aware of Microsoft's growing addiction to the NIH crack. It's yet another way Microsoft causes you pain in a heterogenous network.
All this cost is built in the licencing fee of our software.
Oh, we know that. We see it every time we look at the what, 6 versions of Vista (dude, the only purpose for that is to vacuum money) and the what, 8, 9 versions of Office 2007, the complete dilution of both the Office and Windows branding, (what's next, Windows MSN Office Live for Workgroups?), the licensing schemes that make you seriously doubt your sanity, etc.
We know what we're paying for. However, we also realize that in many cases, we don't have to face Redmond for everything we need, and now, instead of HAVING to use Microsoft products, we use them when they best fit the needs. You guys don't do so well when that comes up.
All those years of arrogance and running roughshod over IT? That's what you're paying for now.
When Microsoft stops doing stupid shit that makes my job suck, I'll be less angry at them.
First, you are a bit inconsistent from your previous comment to this. In the previous comment you tried to say that our voice is not included in Ballmer’s voice because what really mattered is one person’s opinion. Now you are saying is that okay, our voice is included in Ballmer’s voice but that’s our internal matter.
No, i'm saying that internally, people hear and pay attention to what you say, including contradictions between teams. Externally, the only voice that matters is Ballmer's. Everyone else can have an interop polka party, but when Ballmer starts talking the stupid, then his voice wins. Always. So, your love or lack thereof of interop is meaningless. Ballmer hates Linux, ergo, Microsoft hates Linux. Don't like it? Quit, or get a new voice for your company.
You need to realize that Ballmer’s voice is often not his personal voice only but a collective voice of the Microsoft, in the interest of Microsoft’s customers, partners, employees, and share-holders.
You need to realize that voice makes Microsoft look like it hasn't learned a damned thing since 1997.
local.live doesn't work with safari, so I have to use firefox but it won't load at all over this connection.
maps.google.co.uk wins - works perfectly and impressively fast considering the connection speed.
The sell a competitive product and they put hooks in for others to integrate with their environment, so they've done all they need to in good faith in that area, IMO
As for some software inducing a "Wow" out of me, I'm not easily wowible, but this XNA Channel9 video made we "wow"
http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=2...
And I think that's far cooler than anything Google, Apple, or other Microsoft projects in years.
And I'm not alone, as Microsoft won the "Innovator of the Year" and "Game Innovation of the Year" awards at the 2006 DEMMX awards, both for XNA.
http://www.demmx.com/demmx/awards/2006.jsp
As a reference, note that Apple won the "Television Technology of the Year" for the Video iPod, and Google won nothing (though they were nominated for "brand of the year").
Office 2007 is pretty wowable too. But that's me. Internet services, Robert's passion, bore me to tears.
XNA is cool, but it's not aimed at the Internet. Unless you know something I don't.
Google isn't into gaming, so I wouldn't expect to hear about Google at that conference.
YouTube won Visionary of the Year there. Hint: that's now a Google property.
They also won best Video on Demand Service. So, Google won two prizes there.
Which is more likely to make billions of dollars to contribute to the bottom lines? XNA or YouTube?
I'll take YouTube every day of the week, sorry.
Interesting that Wii didn't win, even though I know tons of people who are trading in their Xbox 360s (I'm not, I still don't like the Wii) for the Wii.
Even more fun, two Microsoft employees are on the advisory board. That raises questions in my head. http://www.demmx.com/demmx/partners/advisory_bo...
Are you from Mars?
On the corporate culture question, I think MSFT's biggest problem is Steve Balmer's apparent belief that any problem can be overcome by grit and determination. It seems to me that in tech, creativity and flexibility will beat shear determination any day, and that saying you innovate all the time doesn't necessarily mean that you do.
And there's no real, long-term stability for Microsoft to gain in buying itself into a market that is too fast and dynamic for the behemoth to stay in tune with.
Some of you think Microsoft is a software company. It isn't. It's an operating system developer. Microsoft's field of excellence is long-term, mature staples: operating systems, stock-business services (excel, word, powerpoint, visual studio).
Where Microsoft struggles is where people have convinced the giant that it can do all things. It can't. Microsoft games are just outright laughable. How many Xbox 1s sold last quarter? 10,000 units? Compared to how many prev-gen PS2s?
When Microsoft design a keyboard, they wind up with a wireless keyboard that has a state that enables/disables function keys, with no hard default toggle - the only way a user can get a keyboard which has working function keys is to buy a different model...
If MS had bought Flickr, they wouldn't have known what to do with it. If you think otherwise, you really need to take a step back and recover your sanity, because you've become part of Microsoft's disease. And note the use of the posessive - I didn't say Microsoft is a disease; but it has one. Maybe it's caught it from wearing IBM's old panties.
Vista is the worst tragedy to happen to Microsoft. It's a collection of cool with no real raison de etra. Exactly what the OpenSource/Linux community has been giving that us for years. Exactly what kept Linux off desktops. Now Vista is full of the same annoying, trashy featurettes, fluff, bloat and frippery that Gnome or KDE are. Because Apple lovers "helped shape" Windows XP into a new operating system, worrying less about the real issues that Windows had, technically as an operating system, and more about nuances that, frankly, Microsoft had already mastered and outclassed anything anyone else is going to offer for years to come.
But that expertise has been slowly drowning in the derth of buy-ups Microsoft has gobbled up. So I'm never the least bit surprized that Microsoft can't ship software. You've forgotten that software isn't all made the same.
Years ago I inspired a group of guys to take their product to Microsoft. Someone at MS saw great potential in their product and in short order their product was part of Windows. I was thrilled something I'd been a part of would now be a standard feature of Windows.
But MS had no natural grasp of this new aquisition, no real understanding other than that it 'had potential' and, slashdots inferences aside, MS lacked the ability to assimilate everything about the little company that had brewed up that product.
Transfered from the rich stew of entrepreneurial startup to the watery, piss-like broth of MS's development stagnation, it died a pointless death while simultaneously setting back that market sector by years. Rod Toll/ShadowFactor's GameVoice product.
Microsoft needs to climb out of some of the beds it has climbed into. You said yourself, "Growth comes from startups, not Microsoft partners". Well then quit buying stuff up, because everybody else knows what happens if you go through the pains of creating an MS-derived startup and actually look like turning a profit.
It's not a technology issue, Windows (well, XP, not Vista) is perfectly capable of turning out successful startups, but the process is so insidious and so costly with Windows that the kinds of individuals and teams you need to innovate something are more likely to turn elsewhere or skip the process entirely.
Over the years I've known several teams who've given up on a concept in the early funding stages because they know that if they take the Windows route, that their investors are going to be looking to get an MS-buyout before they break even and can secure their own independence.
Hell - this is exactly what we're seeing Microsoft, intentionally or not, try to do to its gaming sector. MS has done appallingly in that market - but it doesn't have the good sense to give up and focus on what it used to do really well - provisioning - instead it's trying to choke the independence out of the market so it can snatch up anything seems to make money. An abject failure to understand how money is made in that sector.
The whole Dx10/Vista Games concept is blatant thumb sucking by people who can't make games insisting that the people who can not only accept MS have a hand round their throat but that they smile for the camera too.
"Microsoft is run by people who ... don’t see the value in Web stuff"
If you want to work for a web company, please do so. Microsoft is not a web company, and it is too huge to try and become one.
"If Microsoft gets the marketing teams, the executives who are constantly reorging teams, the bean counters who don’t want to spend money to acquire interesting companies, out of the way, watch out."
Yes - because it might actually grow in a positively received fashion if it were actually to do what it does best instead of turning out backwards, arm-twisting-required still-borns like Vista.
If you like what Amazon is doing, go work for them or buy shares in them.
They're pulling in customers because they specialize in what they're doing. They're good at it, and they deliver a great product.
None of that will be true if those technologies are bought up by Microsoft.
They are doing it and doing it well because its something they do; Microsoft aren't doing it because its not something Microsoft do, and buying it wouldn't change that fact.
But if you can't desist in buying stuff your corporation isn't competent to build/innovate in the first place, then please do all of us - and your stock values - a huge favor and separate out the part of the company that creates Windows. Its the single biggest favor you could do the universe and protect that precious investment so that whatever whimsies and fads you persuade the software company into, our computers will be protected from it.
Microsoft makes billions of dollars off of advertising on the Internet. It's an Internet company.
They make billions of dollars off of SQL Server. That isn't an OS.
They make billions of dollars off of Office. That isn't an OS.
I'd rather go read feeds from someone who at least makes a decent argument. Sigh.
Dude I lost all of the little respect I had for you. Channel9 was cool and you were such a Microsoft cheer leader. Every video was "wow this is so cool! We (microsoft) are doing so many great things!"
Now less than a year out of the company you are basicallly bad mouthing the company.
Have you ever written software or just talked about it?
Have you ever sat in a meeting and said ok we have N amount of weeks, N developers ,N features what can we build in this time. Oh yeah we still have to worry about backward compatability and still ship a good product.
How can you compare Amazon to Microsoft? Amazon is a retail store. Their web services are for people to integrate into their store. Do we really care how big their data center is? No.
If Microsoft actually did what Apple did and said F backward compatibility you would be so suprised by what could be done.
Why would MS buy flicker? For Ads? That is a crazy idea. I will be glad when people truly start looking at the future of software as software not as retail store or an ad engine or search. Yes those are all important things but without core software you can't get them done.
I think we are looking at a hype much like the internet boom. Everyone is rushing to be the next Google. I truly don't know what Google has done that warrants stock of $490/share.
I have a test for you take all of the big software companies. Imagine what would happen if you could just make all of their software stop working for 24 hours.
If google was gone would it make a difference in you life? No.
If all Microsoft software just paused for 24 hours all hell would break loose!
Think about it.
Can you tell me how you just change your story over night?
Can you tell me where I'm clueless?
I will admit to being clueless if you can will just answer two question. Have you ever written ship quality code in a real product or just talk about it? Also have you personally innovated any software product that was used by more than 100k people?
It is not that important to me to go do homework on you. So, based on your response I will just assume you have a very limited knowledge of actually creating software vs. talking about.
Feel free to call me names and act like a child because I'm to busy creating new software than doing research on the "scobleizer."
Good luck i'm sure you will make a fortune giving an opinion on things where you have no real knowledge.