Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

@bhu1st — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:44:45 -0000

ya i've just started with silverLight... and m shocked!

Can anybody guess whether GOOGLE would use silverLight or not? Those YouTube Streamings really sucks at low bandwidths. i am facin da problem here.
silverLight is best option. and the video space microsoft providing... no limit for home user like me

i problably can state : Google Flash (google APIs and AJAX) is knocking my door, let me check. aa not tiil now.

But ya it'll be DO or DO!

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

bill gates — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:58:12 -0000

Asp.Net developers have skills? My experience is that Asp.Net developers are desktop or web but not both. And none have any design abilities. If it doesn't come out of a MS box, then they can't use it.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Peterpunk — Sun, 13 May 2007 19:50:17 -0000

Microsoft teach me the three R, restart, reboot, reformat.

I don't want to imagine if they started rebooting, next will reformat the web?

Microsoft wanted to owe you before, why should be different now?

I don't trust them.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Jim — Sun, 06 May 2007 08:16:39 -0000

"I repeat, if Silverlight sucks, then nobody should be complaining that it’s not cross platform…or do you want your platform of choice to host crappy software? Make up your minds."

Wouldn't it be nice if that were true, and that standardized, innovative technologies won out in the end. Except that Microsoft can easily use their desktop monopoly to make Silverlight a standard and then lock out all the other platforms. Wouldn't be a new tactic, just a reinvention of the old e/e/extinguish.

BTW, on Google using Silverlight, I'm not so sure; why would Google commit to being led by Microsoft?

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

aL — Fri, 04 May 2007 22:41:23 -0000

man ppl really dont know anything about sivlerlight..

"waa waa i need expression/visual studio on my os to author it"

-no you dont, ya ass.. silverlight is xaml and js.. both can be done in friggin notepad..

"waa waa my is forcing me to learn expression disigner and drop my adobe skills"

um no? a xaml exporter was available for illustrater even before bled got into beta..

"waa waa i cant host silverlight on my * server because it desnthave .net"

did you even look at the keynote? all you gotta do is add two mimetypes and youre hosting.. silver light is JUST TEXT.. client does the other stuff

"waa waa silver light is closed and proriatary and tied to windows runtimes"

um no? silverlight is self sufficient and open source. go to codeplex and see for your self.. you can even fork it if you want to..

there are alot more innacurate statement on silverlight in this thread but i gotta get some sleep now.. if you wanna wait 2 years before usin it.. fine.. more jobs for me

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Brady J. Frey — Fri, 04 May 2007 11:42:03 -0000

"The MS bashers must be mighty worried to spend so much time bashing Silverlight."

I don't think it's MS bashers so much as web designers who can spot BS when they see it. A companies trying to hype a product contrary to the same community it's hyping it too; sounds like people are just trying to dispell myth.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

ogre — Thu, 03 May 2007 19:07:04 -0000

HAHA

The MS bashers must be mighty worried to spend so much time bashing Silverlight.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Brady J. Frey — Thu, 03 May 2007 18:20:08 -0000

Silverlight isn't a reboot for the web... maybe IE 7 was close, it could have been had they innovated and not just fixed their unsightly mess. Silverlight smells of hypeware - driven by company not community invention. Those of us who hold the title with web professionalism boast with the most knowledge of modern standards and modern development seem to yawn at this. I'm sure it'll get bullied in the OS, but it'll take far more embracing of standards for MS to reboot anything web-based.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Scott — Thu, 03 May 2007 17:37:45 -0000

John wrote: "What was the point of another version of IE on the Mac? It was never going to run ActiveX or any of the other things that actually require IE on Windows."

I'm pretty sure IE on the Mac was a significant barging chip for Microsoft, just like Office is to this day. But after Safari was released, I think MS realized it no longer had any leverage and didn't want to allocate any more resources to it.

If MS wanted to put COM and Active X on the Mac, it could have. MS already has COM-like technology in the Mac version of Office to support VB scripting, but rumors are floating around it's being removed in the next release.

As for OS/2, while IBM bore much of the blame, MS hyped the project as the next big thing - it didn't pan out.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

John C. Welch — Thu, 03 May 2007 11:20:40 -0000

Active X sucks donkey balls, but the fact that it's not cross platform is a major pain in everyone's ass. "Not caring" is not an option, because Active X kills usability for everyone who isn't using a specific browser on a specific platform.

So yes, if silverlight turns out to be a major player in a couple years, and Microsoft reverts to type and kills the cross-platform features, or it never gets onto Linux/Unix, then the fact that it sucks or doesn't suck will not make the pain it causes people less.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

skc — Thu, 03 May 2007 10:45:10 -0000

@Welch, actually I think it is that simple. It either sucks or it doesn't. People that think it sucks seem to prefer Flash, so they are NOT losing out on anything...or are they? You tell me.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Diego — Thu, 03 May 2007 07:52:00 -0000

The lack of Linux support for Silverlight is a major negative. Web apps should be usable on all major OSes.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

John C. Welch — Thu, 03 May 2007 07:11:59 -0000

Or it's not the simplistic binary issue you wish it was.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

skc — Thu, 03 May 2007 06:52:07 -0000

I repeat, if Silverlight sucks, then nobody should be complaining that it's not cross platform...or do you want your platform of choice to host crappy software? Make up your minds.

God you people are such hypocrites.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Sho — Wed, 02 May 2007 23:04:23 -0000

Every single Web 2.0 developer I know uses a Mac.

Did you read that? EVERY SINGLE WEB 2.0 DEVELOPER I KNOW, AND I KNOW QUITE A FEW, USES A MAC.

I have no intention of even downloading the Beta. MS can't even make a good MSN messenger for mac, I am only too well aware of their long term "commitment" to this platform. They are still tied to the Windows cash cow, this is nothing but another tie-in attempt, a day late and a dollar short.

I will not support this, neither will anyone I know. Maybe a few big companies, you know the type - run by some pointy-haired know-nothing "CIO" will implement this. But none of the small innovative companies will, and they're the future.

RIP "Silverlight" 2007 - 2008/9, we won't miss you.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

anon — Wed, 02 May 2007 22:57:30 -0000

Silverlight is proprietary Microsoft garbage. You couldn't pay me enough to use it. The world needs another "standard" from the monopolist felon of software like it needs another lawyer.

Microsoft should focus on fixing Office 2007 and Vista because they suck pretty bad.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

John C. Welch — Wed, 02 May 2007 22:10:38 -0000

The main reason iTunes never made it to Linux - UI designers couldn’t get a cool ‘Jobs impressive’ UI in Linux…

While that could very well be a reason, I tend to doubt it was a prime reason. But sure, if they couldn't guarantee Steve that iTunes would look the way he wants, I could easily see him nixing the idea. He's real particular about such things.

WIndows Media Player
- Internet Explorer
- Quicktime vs. Window Media: http://tinyurl.com/2rv36j
- Project Fahrenheit : http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
- OS/2 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Dude, while I agree completely on WiMP Mac, (but then, that application sucked donkey snot on the Mac anyway, so the Flip4Mac plugin is a VAST improvement) OS/2 and IE are a little silly. What was the point of another version of IE on the Mac? It was never going to run ActiveX or any of the other things that actually require IE on Windows.

On Project Farenheit, well, yeah, that's classic MS bait and switch. Get people to commit to their stuff under the guise of interop/cross-platform, then once they've committed, kill the interop. It's happened quite a few times, and is the primary reason I simple don't trust their commitment to Silverlight.

OS/2 was far more IBM's blunder than MS's.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Scott — Wed, 02 May 2007 20:23:26 -0000

Mr. Robinson wrote: "It praises Silverlight for bringing Netflix’s “Watch Now” feature to the Mac. Are you sure you want Silverlight “killed early” even if Mac users get good things out of it? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!"

We should thank Microsoft? We could be using "Watch Now", right now if Microsoft hadn't discontinued WMP for Mac OS X.

That's like calling, Vista's application independent volume control a "Feature", when it was really Microsoft finally fixing an ancient architectural limitation that had been around since Windows 3.1 (1992) and should have been fixed decades ago.

http://blogs.msdn.com/larry...

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Scott — Wed, 02 May 2007 20:13:22 -0000

Does Microsoft actually expect Mac web developers to buy their development software *and* their OS, just so we can develop Siverlight content with DRM HD content? DRM isn't exactly on the rise these days. And It's a $400 dongle to run their applications. Plus all the hassle that comes with Windows.

There's a reason why I've completely rid my personal and professional computing environment of Microsoft products: Poorly written software and unethical business practices. My guess is that Siverlight will work great on Windows, but "meh" on Mac OS X.

And where's 1.1 for PPC Macs? It's not even out of beta yet.

If Microsoft releases a cross platform runtime *and* development application, I *might* entertain the idea. But, personally, wouldn't trust Microsoft any further than can throw it. Microsoft could simply discontinue Mac support for either the Silverlight runtime, the development app or both.

With their track record, why should I be willing to make an investment in a technology that, in the long term, would be in Microsoft's best interest to see discontinued.

- WIndows Media Player
- Internet Explorer
- Quicktime vs. Window Media: http://tinyurl.com/2rv36j
- Project Fahrenheit : http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
- OS/2 : http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

seshadri — Wed, 02 May 2007 19:14:59 -0000

The main reason iTunes never made it to Linux - UI designers couldn't get a cool 'Jobs impressive' UI in Linux...

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

John C. Welch — Wed, 02 May 2007 18:09:31 -0000

It’s quite fascinating to see a Mac devotee like yourself desperately trying to tear down technology that works for Mac users, simply out of hatred for the company producing the technology. Your posts in this thread are a particularly poor performance, as you cherry pick points that you think you can refute while ignoring the very many points that you can’t, and even your refutations are shrill and consist of strawman arguments and ignorant rants.

I't's a beta of a tech that has a lot of hype but no legs yet, and you're treating it like the second coming of HTML and Air, yet *I'm* the mindless advocate? Great, you can do cool things with it. I can do cool things with the bottom of a coke can and a Hersey's bar. Can you make fire with silverlight? No, but I can with a coke can and chocolate. "Cool" is not the same as "useful".

Considering that I've been relying heavily, and with great joy on Microsoft Entourage for the entire life of the product, which is pushing 8 years now, I'm hardly against anything Microsoft does.

But Microsoft's track record outside of the Mac BU for this kind of cross platform implementation blows ass, and no amount of demo dog and pony shows is going to change that.

Here’s a thought: Actually research what Silverlight is, maybe even muster up the courage to watch the keynote, and *then* raise your objections, so that they’ll be grounded in knowledge rather than in blissful ignorance.

Um, I remember the six-seven month period after the first WPF/e show during the PDC when you couldn't find any documentation on it for love nor money, along with Robert's first interview with that team.

So far, it's a 1.0 product. Do you bet your company behind 1.0 products? Well, evidently YOU do if they're from MS, but I sure as hell don't, no matter who makes them. What happens if MS pulls a Rotor on this in a year or two and yanks the cross-platform parts? Everyone who bet the company on this, spent money on the dev environments with the plans of a happy interop world is kinda fucked, and when you're talking about MS core tech on !MS OS's, rugs getting pulled are not fantasy.

It's a web development environment that ignores a major player in the back end of the web, namely Linux. To debug the Mac plugin or code on a Mac, your machine requirements double, either virtually or physically.

When we see Silverlight 2.0 come out for at least every platform 1.0 will be available for, and the !Microsoft platform versions aren't relegated to a ghetto of suck, and in 2-3 years, we see regular improvements and upkeep of Silverlight, then I'll take it seriously.

But until then? Sorry man, but once bitten twice shy, and as an IT Pro? I still have MS - shaped scars.

It doesn’t make me particularly happy that Adobe seems to own everything Microsoft doesn’t. Though I do have to say that from a process stand point Adobe has made strides which I do appreciate.

Adobe is starting to act like MS more and more every day, particularly wrt Acrobat, and that's pretty scary and sad at the same time.

If I was Adobe and I had to present this as anti-trust, I would simply point to that document from the DOJ as precedent, point to the fact that Silverlight will be shipped with the Operating system and or OS updates, and that my product is not, and point to any other facts that make it uniquely integrated with Microsoft’s own OS platform libraries.

Oh for pete's sake, not everything is anti-trust. It makes PERFECT sense for MS to bundle things like .NET and Silverlight with the OS, just like it made perfect sense to embed an HTML engine in the OS. What was messed up about the last part was MS then using bribes and threats to prevent anyone from NOT using their HTML engine.

The presence of a feature in an OS is not a problem. Now, if MS were to start playing the same games with flash that they did with IE et al, THAT would be a problem.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too. If you’re convinced that eventually MS will abandon Silverlight on non MS platforms then it sounds to me like leaving Linux out doesn’t matter either way in the long run.

That's a good point, but rememeber, Silverlight isn't just a consumer app ala iTunes. It's a server implementation, it's something you want a decent dev environment for, it's a web-only tech, and it has some, or can have some hefty network requirements, depending on use. All of those are things that Linux does quite well. Linux on the desktop, not so much. Linux for programmers, Linux for servers? Yeah, that works really well.

Much ado about nothing really. Especially when you consider the fact that most Linux users don’t even want MS technology running on their boxes anyway…ask Chris here for example.

I have the same views on Linux fanatics that I do on MacMacs and WinTrolls. Put them in a bus and set it on fire. Save a lot of problems. I'm a pragmatist. My favorite directory service is AD, not because i'm in love with MS, but because it's the best for my needs, and rocks. My favorite web server is Apache, not because I love open source, but because it does what I need it to do quietly and reliably, and is far more sane to deal with than IIS, and a damned site cheaper. If MS came out with Office for Linux, I'd have no problem buying it for my Linux uses. Open Office is nice, but for my needs, it's a damned pain.

By the way, you handwaved away the fact that the iTunes software doesn’t run on Linux. It would be nice to hear your views on why it doesn’t.

Personally, i think it's a pretty stupid decision. Arguments about "which linux" aside, I don't agree with it on any level. Having said that, I understand why they might not. The linux market is not something that is terribly consumer oriented. Secondly, Apple actually wants you to PAY for music you get from iTunes. Getting Linux users to pay for software, much less music is not an easy sell. Outside of IT, "Linux" and "Pay" do not go well together. In the server room sure, but the Linux user community is not going to make you a lot of money, or at least that's the impression they work very hard to give...

But I still disagree with it, because I think not doing it plays into image too much. Part of why Linux doesn't pay for things is because it doesn't get a lot of stuff worth paying for. The GIMP? Please. I'd pay for it to get a proper UI first. I think that as iTunes showed the music companies, that if someone took the risk and offered the linux community software worth paying for, it would most likely be a success.

Oh sure the fanboys would bend over and recite the Stallman Party Line, but who cares about them. They're like people who don't vote, inconsequential. I don't in fact think that Linux is the realm of entitlement queen dickheads. I think no one's really offered them consumer software worth paying for yet. The first ones who do may be rather happy about it.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Mr. Robinson — Wed, 02 May 2007 17:46:41 -0000

"If I was Adobe and I had to present this as anti-trust, I would simply point to that document from the DOJ as precedent, point to the fact that Silverlight will be shipped with the Operating system and or OS updates, and that my product is not, and point to any other facts that make it uniquely integrated with Microsoft’s own OS platform libraries. "

Um, Microsoft shipped Flash with XP (as part of IE6), so Adobe will look very silly complaining if Microsoft ships Silverlight with their system.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Jim S — Wed, 02 May 2007 17:37:39 -0000

Silverlight may be great. It may even do things that AJAX and HTML cannot. But, keep things in perspective here.

Silverlight

not

SEO

friendly.

Just like Flash, no one is going to put all of their web content into Silverlight. It may be a good alternative to Flash, but NOTHING beats HTML that is accessible and readable by Search Engines and all users with any browser, period.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Kamal Jain — Wed, 02 May 2007 16:55:51 -0000

Robert@105,

If there ar not too many comments like that then you could remove the comment body by the text "Comment deleted", and may be also make it slightly grayer or smaller font compare to other text.

Re: Microsoft “rebooted the Web” yesterday

Robert Scoble — Wed, 02 May 2007 16:06:43 -0000

Seshadri: sorry about that. I don't know what I can do about it, though. I'll send a note to Mullenweg, cause that's something they need to fix.