The WHOLE purpose of Joost (despite being able to exit the mode) is to support FULL SCREEN... the same as WriteRoom and other Full Screen Apps.
If you are afraid of that, are too simple to figure out how to exit it, or are morally opposed to it, you have no right or reason to install it in the first place.
There is no reason to whine and beg for preferential treatment and to be treated to the beta, rush to install it, and then whine that it functions the way it's SUPPOSED to.
Andrew
· 2 years ago
A lot of my media center like apps are full screen by default. Front Row, of course, and the other OSX media center app I downloaded went straight to full screen.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Andrew, shhh, apparently, Scoble has never used WinDVD or any DVD viewing app or WMP nor does he know that ESC is the standard fullscreen/windowed toggle. It's a secret.
Christopher Coulter
· 2 years ago
That was supposed to be it's FEATURE...and the press buzz is all pretty darned positive.
Is Joost hiring? ;) I could kick in the doors for them...
Shashanka
· 2 years ago
Robert, you are definitely over reacting. The full screen mode can be turned off. Did ii surprise me initially when I intalled it? Yes, but i got over the oversight and started using the app itself.
Keith Patrick
· 2 years ago
Amen, Robert. I primarily write UIs for a living, and what I call "narcissistic apps" on a multi-tasking OS drive me nuts. It also drives me nuts when I'm requested to put that kind of behavior into an app. Maybe I'm already nuts :)
Diego
· 2 years ago
Pressing ESC doesn't work? That would be my first reaction. Escape, escape! Abort, abort!
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Diego: Escape doesn't work. I just reinstalled it to try it out. Also, you can get it to run in a Window but the Window doesn't have a title bar, so all the visual cues we learned over the last 20 years aren't there. Minimize and maximize buttons aren't there.
Also, this isn't an app you'll want to run in bandwidth constrained environments (read: Verizon Wireless).
Also, I can't find an "exit" button, so I have to right-click on the toolbar item and close it there.
Why fight 20 years of Windows UI? Just to be cool? Sorry, this doesn't impress me.
Christopher Coulter
· 2 years ago
I think people are forgetting the operative word, 'beta', while defaulting to full-screen mode is quite rude for common End Users (pop-up spammers oft use full-screen web pages that are sometimes quite difficult to close). In this case, I think they left it in to draw attention to the full-screen feature. Rude? Yes and No. Scoble over-reacting? Is the sky blue? ;) But then that same mood will mirror the general publics. So while 'siding' with Scoble, I wouldn't have tossed the baby out with the bathwater, after all, it's a beta.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Christopher: first impressions matter. Especially in today's "Twitter" world.
Lori Olson
· 2 years ago
Gee, if you don't want it, can you pass me an invitation? I'm dying to try this on my Mac Mini media machine hooked up to our HDTV.
Diego
· 2 years ago
Robert: Ahhh, then I am seeing your frustration. If it handled ESC to exit, maybe that would be fine. It's instinctive to hit ESC.
Mark
· 2 years ago
"Why fight 20 years of Windows UI? Just to be cool? Sorry, this doesn’t impress me."
You mean like Office 2007?
Kurt
· 2 years ago
Have you seen that GoogleTV hoax going around on YouTube? If that were real that would blow Joost out of the water I think. I haven't been able to use Joost personally but just going from what I've read about it and the video the people made on the ficitional GoogleTv. I hope Google sees it and they decide to develop it.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Since when is it Twitter's World?
Juan
· 2 years ago
This is the reason I like *nix. Nothing runs in full screen by default. I like the size of terminal windows for everything but the browser.
Besides, what's the big deal over this new service anyway? What is it going to do for you that something else already doesn't?
Satish
· 2 years ago
Robert : I got my beta invitation. I think the product has a good enough UI for a beta product. Many of the Video applications I have seen till now open video in full screen to provide better picture in the available screen space. Anyway there is a nicely designed "Standby" and "Resize window" at the bottom of the screen as you move your mouse. I think your reaction was a bit hurried.
ioannusdeverani
· 2 years ago
Hi, Robert, sorry you didn't have a wonderful experience with Joost. I admit the UI seems to have a tad bit of a high learning curve, but once you figure out how to use it, it is pretty cool. BTW: ther is a little button on the control menu thingy that will give you back your screen. Joost will be like a picture frame window (as in a window with no close-button, etc.). I think they should give it the option to be full screen, but it should start by default in windowed mode, and the windowed mode should have close, maximize, and minimize buttons.
I suggest, though, that you give Joost another chance. It seems like the beginning of a really neat product; give it a while, and you may start to see more worthwhile channels, and better usability.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
A "twitter" world? What world do you live in? The percentage of people that use Twitter is minuscule. More evidence that you are getting more and more out of touch with normal people.
Steven Hodson
· 2 years ago
on this I definitely agree with Robert .. and if some of you commenters would read before posting you would have seen that he stated he knew how to get out of the full screen display.
but that is not the problem. the problem is that while it might be okay for a program to open up full screen - it is neither necessary these days to do that especially if you are running at high resolutions. In addition it is just bad form IMO to do that.
I probably would have done the same thing Robert.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
LayZ: where did I say "world?" And, this is a tech blog and there's now 676 people following me. Up from 300 or so just a week ago. Audiences that double in less than a week are interesting to me. Maybe not to you or normal people but, then, the tagline here says "Tech Geek Blogger" NOT "normal guy blogger."
james
· 2 years ago
O jeez, coulters back.
Are you going to say why you walked? Full disclosure?
Eric Rice
· 2 years ago
I was more concerned with the new UI, not the full screen UI. Software isn't just on the desktop, your iPod, XBOX and other things have full UIs.
I can't agree here, I think it's tech superiority kicking in.
Betcha moms and dads will love it. They can't accidentally do other things.
Brent
· 2 years ago
I agree with you Scoble, I don't much like the UI, but that is beside the point. The channel selection sucks. It's a joke, even for a beta product. All hype, no substance.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Eric: my PC is NOT an iPod or an Xbox. Anyone who treats it as such doesn't understand the usage model.
Media Center's UI takes over the screen too, if you want, but you can minimize it and/or quit it easily.
Ebrahim
· 2 years ago
I read this somewhere > 'When everythign else failes, read the manual", and I'm sure they must've one (instruction set) too. ;-)
Diego
· 2 years ago
Twitter is a passing fad I'm sure. I'll die down in time. How many times can you get an SMS with someone saying "I'm taking a dump" :)
Armand
· 2 years ago
C'mon, Scoble, you can afford a second monitor! I'm hanging on to it in case some interesting comment comes on there, the other features seem pretty cute. I actually like the UI...
Armand
· 2 years ago
Sorry - interesting content. D'oh.
Tinus
· 2 years ago
I call Bullshit. You must be more forgiving then that when you try a new (beta) application. Does it have something to do with the fact that video podcasts and Joost bite eachother?
Duncan
· 2 years ago
Clicking on the icon top right hand corner to take it out of full screen mode too hard Scoble? or is there another agenda here we don't know about. It's a great platform for streaming shows with a wonderful future, why you've written it off because of your own inadequacies in using a computer is beyond me.
Duncan
· 2 years ago
Sorry, let me correct myself, the icon down the bottom that looks just like the same one in Windows Media Player does it. 1 second it took me to find it. It's not that hard.
Will
· 2 years ago
Robert: you said twitter world in post #16.
I havn't got Joost yet (waiting for a beta invite), but if it does do high quality video, as promised, then it's not unreasonable to expect it to require a high bandwidth connection to do streaming.
Verizon Wireless is (according to Wikipedia) EVDO / 1xRTT. "The typical download speed is between 400 and 700 kilobits per second with burst speeds of up to 2 megabits per second."
That's just enough to stream your videos. Having sustained 2-3 megabit is probably a bare minimum to actually stream higher quality stuff.
James
· 2 years ago
As I read it, Joost is supposed to be 'TV on your PC', in many cases piped into your TV screen. You're not supposed to be working in other apps at the same time - put your feet up and let it take over.
Ricky
· 2 years ago
I agree with the Scobleman, I got the invite after waiting and getting in with the hype, but as Scoble i uninstalled it after a few minutes. It's like having an incredible wet dream then waking up finding out the dog is licking your face.. not good..
Nescio
· 2 years ago
its March 2nd and no real support for Vista ......
waiting ...
Hendrik
· 2 years ago
Must say this is quite an overreaction. For someone who is embracing edgy betas all year round it seems paradoxical that you tumble over a UI design feature, especially since the product still is is beta, invitation only, etc...
I think the Joost Full Screen is actually a nice feature: it forces you to get into "lean forback" position. You are still relaxed enough to enjoy the full screen video and active enough to use their fancy widgets. Now that's a usage a PC might not have not been designed for but it works nevertheless quite good once you get used to it and I am sure we will see many more "lean forback" (I agree we definitely need a new name for this ;-) )
I say a PC is not only designed for multitasking, Joost (but also MCE and - ahum - GAMES) prove that the PC is really cool for very immersive fullscreen stuff too.
And yes, you should buy a second screen ;). Oh and -with a workaround- Joost works great on VISTA
hendrik
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
The interesting result of this is this:
Betas are misused by the "initiated" to wank off and prove they got special treatment, opened the app and posted a blog entry on it first... They are then willing to whine about it and call it unacceptable (although this is actually what the BETA PROCESS IS -- a test to determine feedback on functionality, features, and technical bugs), uninstall it, realize they are idiots, reinstall it, and still do almost ZERO to participate in the BETA PROCESS.
Yay!
Moreover, and more pathetic, the developer actually appreciates this because hype is more important to them than real feedback.
Jeff Ventura
· 2 years ago
Full screen should not be default. Having the option is fine and well, but make the default launching mode "windowed" so the first impression isn't so jarring.
But Robert, you know better. Stop the dramatics. You should give beta software a bigger grace period than you did Joost. Come on.
I think you overreacted here.
Owen
· 2 years ago
I installed Microsoft Office. It took over 500Mb on my hard disk. I couldn’t figure out how to get out. Or get back to Google Reader and Outlook and my other apps.
Well, I’m lying. I know how to get back to other apps. Alt-Tab.
Or Ctrl-Alt-Delete, which pulls up task manager and I can kill that process.
I did that and promptly deleted it.
What a rude app. I don’t care how cool it is. You don’t take over that much space if you want me to use you.
Josh
· 2 years ago
Wow, Scoble! What a rude app? You're sounding like an old man like the one on those Coke Zero commercials. Do you know what the capital of Djibouti is?
Maybe you should take 10 minutes and learn the software.
Jim
· 2 years ago
“Why fight 20 years of Windows UI? Just to be cool? Sorry, this doesn’t impress me.”
Gosh. Let's just kill the whole web-tech thing right now then, because they're trying to change the way everyone does things.
I look forward to the Web 3.0 Telnet app.
Mat
· 2 years ago
Robert: The fact that you think of this as a "Twitter World" (i.e. one where superficial, instant impressions matter most) is perhaps the larger problem here.
I mourn the loss of the depth of thoughtful exploration.
John Handelaar
· 2 years ago
If we're going to use 1987 Windows interfaces, try Alt-F4. I'll bet cash money *that* works.
adam
· 2 years ago
robert: double clicking on the screen will switch back and forth from full screen to window.
i agree that it's not a UI that is normal - and it shocked me when it opened full screen but as you play around it gets more intuitive.
just because it's different doesn't make it bad...
(and no, i'm not related to the company)
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Mat: I guess I should have called it a "YouTube World." The problem is there are hundreds of companies all vying for your attention.
Adam: different is OK if you're selling video games. If you're selling apps that need to co-exist with my workspace then that's a whole nother thing.
I have it back on and will try it again. But it already is proving to not be a good experience in another way: with a Verizon Wireless card the video experience sucks. (Other videos on Internet work just fine). They need to make it step down for low bandwidth situations and/or do more buffering.
fifthdecade
· 2 years ago
Robert, admit it, you just don't like anything Microsoft didn't think of or use first. Are you going to say Office is a rude app and not use it just because it's user interface uses a ribbon and not the same interface of the last 20 years?
Sometimes, you do come across like a Windows whore.
For heavens sake, work stuff out before you slag it off! All you're doing is showing your own ignorance here.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Jeff: I have a folder of 59 pieces of software and services I should try out (seriously, I do, and that's after cleaning out the stuff that I'm not interested in). How will ANYONE in this world give any piece of software more than a few minutes attention at first?
Why does Joost deserve more attention than, say, Dabble or Blinkx? Those two services both work better and are more satisfying.
And if it's for my HDTV I bet an Apple iTV will be more satisfying there.
I just don't get the hype around Joost.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
fifthdecade: the ribbon didn't change the fundamental UI (the maximize, minimize, etc) in a way that made me not only figure it out, but made all the productivity stuff go away. Imagine if every app had those kinds of common things in a different place.
As to why I don't give software more than a few minutes trial anymore. I have a folder of 59 things that are asking for my attention. And yours.
Seriously, I do.
So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don't get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3's new stuff, or Apple's iTV.
I note there's again a lot of attacking me (must be a lot of people who are associated with Joost here, it's interesting that many of the attackers never have participated in comments here before) but there's very little light.
So, why does Joost deserve our attention?
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Oh, sorry, I see where I used "Twitter World" above. Maybe I should have said "YouTube" world. I'm still getting questions about when I will make my videos shorter cause many people don't like watching long things (or taking long periods of time to consider things).
fifthdecade
· 2 years ago
For me, it's nothing to do with Joost which I don't have or know much about, other than it's something to do with Skype which I also don't have. It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.
Most people I suspect are surprised at you, a geek techy person, not being able to work out how to switch views when clearly lots of others have done.
If you have a folder of 59 things that need to have your attention, perhaps you could be more selective? Nobody can review everything, and if they do those reviews will be worth not very much as a result.
I guess you posted this in haste. What's that saying? Act in haste, repent at leisure...
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
"So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don’t get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff, or Apple’s iTV.
So, why does Joost deserve our attention?"
Jesus, this is hilarious coming from you. I'll tell you a few of the most obvious reasons:
1. Scooping other video aggregation sites on a series of both significant and niche media content deals/partnerships. 2. Focus on full screen, high quality content rather than low quality, postcard video constrained within Flash frames. (Moving internet video upmarket.) (Shouldn't HD-Boy be raving about this?) 3. Willingness to abandon 30 year old and business-defined UI and move toward a more modern, use-specific, consumer- and media-focused interface tailored to the content and experience rather than using the same UI for all purposes. (Again, weren't you cheerleading such efforts in Longhorn 6 years ago?) 4. Pursuing internet video with a fairly unique paradigm/model (shared by Democracy and proabbaly some other apps) of creating an application interface to internet "television" (streams of short and long form content available as "channels") rather than the already antiquated site aggregation model. 5. (Minor Point) Adopting a Mac-esque, primarily HUD-oriented UI... It's interesting that it's look-and-feel is taking many, many cues from Apple while remaining unique. To build on #3, The content is the userspace, interaction is within, or over, it. As opposed to models which minimize the content to a few inches square on an overloaded and crowded page of antiquated content.
Why Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff are not as "talk worthy":
They are largely a mashup of YouTube (low quality, short form video clips presented within a Flash container with aggregation and lame community features) and Digg with extremely minor variations on the theme and feature sets.
Brian Boyko
· 2 years ago
Robert: I'm not going to argue with you about UI and full-screen, or that, but you did ask "Why does Joost deserve our attention?"
I think as an application, it's certainly nothing to look at; keep in mind you're looking at a beta version of the software. I'd prefer a more concentrated UI and not the fancy Fischer-Price stuff.
But from a holistic standpoint, Joost is well worth the hype, for a few reasons.
First, Joost provides a viable alternative to the Cable/Satellite duopoly. This is not the case now, in it's early stages, but it has the potential to replace television subscription services. To those of us who like a few TV programs but would rather not pay cable costs, it's a godsend.
Second, Joost is the first video-over-Internet app that really targets the "middle tail." If you follow the Chris Anderson "Long Tail" theory of abundance, the networks have focused on the cream of the crop (or at least the lowest common denominator) and YouTube and other such sites have focused on the content of the Long Tail. This is an economy of abundance. However, the Long Tail does not cope well with passive viewership, only active search. We have entered the economy of abundance, but finding the good stuff in the mix is harder.
Joost is the first service that targets the middle tail - they need content which is obscure enough not to have been picked up by the television services but not so obscure only a few people will watch it - driving up the bandwidth. In short, they need the "middle tail."
From a networking perspective, Joost is important because consumer broadband networks typically remain underutilized. Even when bittorrenting, you don't bittorrent all the time. Once you have the file, you seed, which may use all upload bandwidth but downloading stops.
Any IT department guy will tell you that any underutilized link is a waste of money - Joost is a way for consumers to utilize more effectively what they have already paid for.
Finally, there's the fact that Joost means Money for content creators.
Yes, Joost sells ads and kicks back pennies to the content creators. But there is nothing that prevents the content creators from embedding their own ads in the video and in so doing, keeping the money from those sales.
Oops, I forgot another one which should have appealed to you (I'll call it 4a)"
4a. Joost, unlike any of the sites you mentioned, is a P2P-based network system. (I would point out that as use grows your speed issues could be mitigated, and that, two, you recently proclaimed NetFlix's death simply because you interviewed someone about a video P2P distribution system.) More interesting to me, this is Kazaa offering a legitimate offering.
Which makes me think of another point:
6. This is from the makers of Skype and Kazaa, two "proven" properties of the internet age.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
@56 "How will ANYONE in this world give any piece of software more than a few minutes attention at first? "
That's your problem. You are promiscuous to your detriment. Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
LayZ: really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff. Ask the average CTO how many pieces of software he or she has tried in the last week. The ones I know say "zero" or, maybe, "one" if it's something work related.
>>It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.
I don't use games on my PC. That's what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point.
Eric Rice
· 2 years ago
Joost might be the first to get large format stuff to my home theater.
I didn't pay 50,000 bucks to watch postage stamps in flash. If Joost can be the one to change that, fine.
I'm a tech guy too, but we're outnumbered by normal guys. We as tech bloggers should focus on them as our prime directive.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
"really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff."
Did you forget how to read?
"Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence"
Just because you think it's your responsibility to use every new application put in front of your face doesn't mean it's any other professionals responsibility. However, because you choose to, it is your obligation to ACTUALLY test them and provide a measured critique. Not to uninstall in 5 minutes and to post whining 5 minutes later.
"I don’t use games on my PC. That’s what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point."
What is your point? That video has no place on the PC and belongs on a console? That you don't fully participate in the game or video market on the PC so you aren't qualified and/or experienced? What exactly is your point? You've already conceded that you overreacted and are reevaluating so what the hell is EXACTLY your point?
Allie
· 2 years ago
I tried Joost, and I liked it. I don't mind it taking up the screen -- if I want to watch TV, I want it to be as big as possible.
It just feels much better to me, and the quality is higher than YouTube.
I find this whole shift to TV-over-the-internet (aka "over the top") pretty wild -- this industry is changing so drastically, right before our eyes.
For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It's the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.
- Allie
Christopher Coulter
· 2 years ago
Ok, I gotta peek. I gotta go with Goebbels @60...I think Joost is great, in fact best of lot, best of breed, hope it sticks around. Viacom ain't no dummy. And it terms of the biz model, you might want to be worried, Vloggers will get far more exposure here, and they will have advertising dollars locked in, and better revenue sharing ops. But instead of catcalling it and fumbling badly with the beta, I'd establish a 'teaser channel' of sorts. There is a video-sharing shakeout going on, some 260 video-sharing sites (egads), the wacky and wild-west YouTube and clones are starting to wane, and Joost is playing the high-quality professional-stream card. Heck of a shakeout coming, but my chips are on Joost at least.
And Mr. 28, nope. No can do. None of your biz anyways.
Christopher Coulter
· 2 years ago
PS - And oh, PC games are NOT dead. RTS and heavy RPG just doesn't translate very well on console. And Sim styled stuff, Flight Sim X and the like.
For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It’s the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.
Agree fully.
Eric Rice
· 2 years ago
Hey check it, Joost has an RSS reader in it, I was skimming this post about Joost on Joost. meta!
How dumb can a person be.. I have some tokens left so if anyone is interested..
Rafe
· 2 years ago
I like Joost's full-screen UI. And for those who don't know, the "power" icon exits the app. Unconventional from a Windows perspective but quite comprehensible if you've used any consumer electronics products in the last ten years. I think it's cool how it puts a good "living room" UI on a Windows app.
-Rafe
deannie
· 2 years ago
Wow I can't believe it. I recently installed Joost and got it right away.
When it went to full screen I just double clicked on the window and got a partial screen. I also found the controls on my own at 12, 3 6 and 9 o'clock in about 5 minutes.
Robert, you must have just been tired when you tried this out. Try it again. The content was interesting, the quality is good.
modernday
· 2 years ago
Hey, that Joost program sounds awesome. That sucks that you don't like it maybe you should give it another go? I'd love an invite :D I saw they have Fifth Gear on the program list. I wonder if they have Top Gear :D!
Joost
· 2 years ago
Well if you give up that easely you don't even deserve an invite! I got my invite after not having to beg at all and I thought it looks pretty good with a pretty good picture quality too! Anyway kazaa boys don't let anyone stop you and yesss Top Gear is awesome and would be a great addition!
Joost (it's a Dutch name and means Joe simple right!?)
scopettg
· 2 years ago
Hmm... I suppose that's some give and take. :) Take it easy lah~
JHC
· 2 years ago
I just installed Word -- the damned thing filled my entire screen so I uninstalled it...
I just upgraded to WMP11 -- the damned thing doesnt respect the XP UI so I uninstalled it...
I just upgraded to Office 2007 -- the damned thing doesn't respect any of my window metrics at all and violates dozens of UI conventions so I uninstalled it...
Scoble, you're an ass. Seriously.
kim
· 2 years ago
I am amazed (maybe even frightened) that you could not figure out how to get out of the joost app. It is really easy and even my little sister (age: 7) could figure it out without any help!
Matt
· 2 years ago
Joost is meant to be on your PC its a "TV browser" (coined by Joost's CTO Dirk-Willem van Gulik) .
Joost will be a media center app or Set top box client the PC and MAC are just platforms to test the client out ,while we wait for true IPTV for enter the living room .
Joost ;p look at IE7 if you want to complain about wierd UIs
Andrew
· 2 years ago
Tangentially related to Joost--
I just watched on Joost Channel 6 - Indie Flix Premier "Fields of Mudan". Wow. Talk about a heavy movie in only 23 minutes. Won a best short picture nomination from the Oscars. I can see why.
Anyway, if you do reinstall, this tragic film is pretty impressive (made by a college student). Almost worth reinstalling (you can delete when done).
LayZ
· 2 years ago
"LayZ: really? Most professionals I know just ignore this kind of stuff. Ask the average CTO how many pieces of software he or she has tried in the last week. The ones I know say “zero” or, maybe, “one” if it’s something work related."
To borrow from the late Senator Benson: "I know C-level execs. I have many C-level exec friends. You, Mr. Scoble, are no C-level exec". I'm not talking about C-level execs. The majority of don't have the time nor the responsibility to sign up for or test beta software. But, when they do take on a project they devote the time to do it right. So, you can frame the argument to your advantage all you like. but that wasn't the point. If you say "Yes" to agreeing to participate in a beta you owe it to the software company to apply the necessary time and commitment. That is what they are expecting of you. Otherwise, you are a waste of time to them. So, I repeat. most professionals devote the necessary time and resources to a project they agree to take on. If for nothing else, to maintain their self respect and credibility.
Christopher Coulter
· 2 years ago
Wow, John doesn't like, rare disagreement as I think this one has potential and will really catch on. And whining about lack of content, in this beta stage is too early, it's still a proof-of-concept, they got Endemol, TW and Viacom and getting Paramount, MTV, BET and game companies, and Fortune 500s (Corporate Channels), from what I hear. Man, must be doing something right to get these deals. But they better not go Kazaaified spyware heavy.
Played with it more, the UI is simple enough, CE style, kinda Archosish. While the full-screen was a bit of a jolt, it's obvious they are thinking in terms of a Media Centerish CE-styled app, in which case breaking Windows UI conventions is a gooooood thing.
Well one thing in common, Scoble and John both catcall, yet 90% of commenters disagree. They sure got a good publicity boost from the malcontents. :)
Ani
· 2 years ago
??? would you give up a good program just because it took the full screen? you're kidding right? I don't have a clue what Joost is LOL, but I think you get nervous very easily. And why am I commenting here? please apply ctrl alt del on me please
buns and chou chou
· 2 years ago
ha ha...good one. video of you coming soon my friend!
kristin
· 2 years ago
I dont know about the windows version of the app is but in OSX the little arrow pointing to the box was a dead giveaway for a shortcut to a "windowed" mode.
Not much on joost to watch anyways except for music videos.
Cindy
· 2 years ago
Please send me a Joost invite. I am so excited, I just heard about this!!! Please???
I agree with Scoble. This thing gets a "delete" if it doesn't work better in a couple of days than it does at the moment. Looks like all hype and no substance to me..if what I have experienced is the norm for this thing, you can have my invite.
Ciaran
· 2 years ago
Could someone please send me an invite to ciaransheehan@hotmail.co.uk? Thank you in advance!
Arturo
· 2 years ago
Well, i also would like to have an invitation and begin to understand this new tv concept. If anybody can send me one it would be great. Thanx in advance.
All Comments
there is a button on the controller that will get you out of full screen :)
please :-)
kontakt.email@arcor.de
Thank you from germany :-)
George
The WHOLE purpose of Joost (despite being able to exit the mode) is to support FULL SCREEN... the same as WriteRoom and other Full Screen Apps.
If you are afraid of that, are too simple to figure out how to exit it, or are morally opposed to it, you have no right or reason to install it in the first place.
There is no reason to whine and beg for preferential treatment and to be treated to the beta, rush to install it, and then whine that it functions the way it's SUPPOSED to.
Is Joost hiring? ;) I could kick in the doors for them...
Maybe I'm already nuts :)
Also, this isn't an app you'll want to run in bandwidth constrained environments (read: Verizon Wireless).
Also, I can't find an "exit" button, so I have to right-click on the toolbar item and close it there.
Why fight 20 years of Windows UI? Just to be cool? Sorry, this doesn't impress me.
You mean like Office 2007?
Besides, what's the big deal over this new service anyway? What is it going to do for you that something else already doesn't?
I think your reaction was a bit hurried.
I suggest, though, that you give Joost another chance. It seems like the beginning of a really neat product; give it a while, and you may start to see more worthwhile channels, and better usability.
but that is not the problem. the problem is that while it might be okay for a program to open up full screen - it is neither necessary these days to do that especially if you are running at high resolutions. In addition it is just bad form IMO to do that.
I probably would have done the same thing Robert.
Are you going to say why you walked?
Full disclosure?
I can't agree here, I think it's tech superiority kicking in.
Betcha moms and dads will love it. They can't accidentally do other things.
Media Center's UI takes over the screen too, if you want, but you can minimize it and/or quit it easily.
I havn't got Joost yet (waiting for a beta invite), but if it does do high quality video, as promised, then it's not unreasonable to expect it to require a high bandwidth connection to do streaming.
Verizon Wireless is (according to Wikipedia) EVDO / 1xRTT.
"The typical download speed is between 400 and 700 kilobits per second with burst speeds of up to 2 megabits per second."
That's just enough to stream your videos. Having sustained 2-3 megabit is probably a bare minimum to actually stream higher quality stuff.
waiting ...
I think the Joost Full Screen is actually a nice feature: it forces you to get into "lean forback" position. You are still relaxed enough to enjoy the full screen video and active enough to use their fancy widgets. Now that's a usage a PC might not have not been designed for but it works nevertheless quite good once you get used to it and I am sure we will see many more "lean forback" (I agree we definitely need a new name for this ;-) )
I say a PC is not only designed for multitasking, Joost (but also MCE and - ahum - GAMES) prove that the PC is really cool for very immersive fullscreen stuff too.
And yes, you should buy a second screen ;). Oh and -with a workaround- Joost works great on VISTA
hendrik
Betas are misused by the "initiated" to wank off and prove they got special treatment, opened the app and posted a blog entry on it first... They are then willing to whine about it and call it unacceptable (although this is actually what the BETA PROCESS IS -- a test to determine feedback on functionality, features, and technical bugs), uninstall it, realize they are idiots, reinstall it, and still do almost ZERO to participate in the BETA PROCESS.
Yay!
Moreover, and more pathetic, the developer actually appreciates this because hype is more important to them than real feedback.
But Robert, you know better. Stop the dramatics. You should give beta software a bigger grace period than you did Joost. Come on.
I think you overreacted here.
Well, I’m lying. I know how to get back to other apps. Alt-Tab.
Or Ctrl-Alt-Delete, which pulls up task manager and I can kill that process.
I did that and promptly deleted it.
What a rude app. I don’t care how cool it is. You don’t take over that much space if you want me to use you.
Maybe you should take 10 minutes and learn the software.
Gosh. Let's just kill the whole web-tech thing right now then, because they're trying to change the way everyone does things.
I look forward to the Web 3.0 Telnet app.
I mourn the loss of the depth of thoughtful exploration.
i agree that it's not a UI that is normal - and it shocked me when it opened full screen but as you play around it gets more intuitive.
just because it's different doesn't make it bad...
(and no, i'm not related to the company)
Adam: different is OK if you're selling video games. If you're selling apps that need to co-exist with my workspace then that's a whole nother thing.
I have it back on and will try it again. But it already is proving to not be a good experience in another way: with a Verizon Wireless card the video experience sucks. (Other videos on Internet work just fine). They need to make it step down for low bandwidth situations and/or do more buffering.
Sometimes, you do come across like a Windows whore.
For heavens sake, work stuff out before you slag it off! All you're doing is showing your own ignorance here.
Why does Joost deserve more attention than, say, Dabble or Blinkx? Those two services both work better and are more satisfying.
And if it's for my HDTV I bet an Apple iTV will be more satisfying there.
I just don't get the hype around Joost.
As to why I don't give software more than a few minutes trial anymore. I have a folder of 59 things that are asking for my attention. And yours.
Seriously, I do.
So, what makes Joost so impressive? I don't get the hype, espeically when compared with services like Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3's new stuff, or Apple's iTV.
I note there's again a lot of attacking me (must be a lot of people who are associated with Joost here, it's interesting that many of the attackers never have participated in comments here before) but there's very little light.
So, why does Joost deserve our attention?
Most people I suspect are surprised at you, a geek techy person, not being able to work out how to switch views when clearly lots of others have done.
If you have a folder of 59 things that need to have your attention, perhaps you could be more selective? Nobody can review everything, and if they do those reviews will be worth not very much as a result.
I guess you posted this in haste. What's that saying? Act in haste, repent at leisure...
So, why does Joost deserve our attention?"
Jesus, this is hilarious coming from you. I'll tell you a few of the most obvious reasons:
1. Scooping other video aggregation sites on a series of both significant and niche media content deals/partnerships.
2. Focus on full screen, high quality content rather than low quality, postcard video constrained within Flash frames. (Moving internet video upmarket.) (Shouldn't HD-Boy be raving about this?)
3. Willingness to abandon 30 year old and business-defined UI and move toward a more modern, use-specific, consumer- and media-focused interface tailored to the content and experience rather than using the same UI for all purposes. (Again, weren't you cheerleading such efforts in Longhorn 6 years ago?)
4. Pursuing internet video with a fairly unique paradigm/model (shared by Democracy and proabbaly some other apps) of creating an application interface to internet "television" (streams of short and long form content available as "channels") rather than the already antiquated site aggregation model.
5. (Minor Point) Adopting a Mac-esque, primarily HUD-oriented UI... It's interesting that it's look-and-feel is taking many, many cues from Apple while remaining unique. To build on #3, The content is the userspace, interaction is within, or over, it. As opposed to models which minimize the content to a few inches square on an overloaded and crowded page of antiquated content.
Why Blinkx, Dabble, YouTube, Blip.tv, Revision 3’s new stuff are not as "talk worthy":
They are largely a mashup of YouTube (low quality, short form video clips presented within a Flash container with aggregation and lame community features) and Digg with extremely minor variations on the theme and feature sets.
I think as an application, it's certainly nothing to look at; keep in mind you're looking at a beta version of the software. I'd prefer a more concentrated UI and not the fancy Fischer-Price stuff.
But from a holistic standpoint, Joost is well worth the hype, for a few reasons.
First, Joost provides a viable alternative to the Cable/Satellite duopoly. This is not the case now, in it's early stages, but it has the potential to replace television subscription services. To those of us who like a few TV programs but would rather not pay cable costs, it's a godsend.
Second, Joost is the first video-over-Internet app that really targets the "middle tail." If you follow the Chris Anderson "Long Tail" theory of abundance, the networks have focused on the cream of the crop (or at least the lowest common denominator) and YouTube and other such sites have focused on the content of the Long Tail. This is an economy of abundance. However, the Long Tail does not cope well with passive viewership, only active search. We have entered the economy of abundance, but finding the good stuff in the mix is harder.
Joost is the first service that targets the middle tail - they need content which is obscure enough not to have been picked up by the television services but not so obscure only a few people will watch it - driving up the bandwidth. In short, they need the "middle tail."
From a networking perspective, Joost is important because consumer broadband networks typically remain underutilized. Even when bittorrenting, you don't bittorrent all the time. Once you have the file, you seed, which may use all upload bandwidth but downloading stops.
Any IT department guy will tell you that any underutilized link is a waste of money - Joost is a way for consumers to utilize more effectively what they have already paid for.
Finally, there's the fact that Joost means Money for content creators.
Yes, Joost sells ads and kicks back pennies to the content creators. But there is nothing that prevents the content creators from embedding their own ads in the video and in so doing, keeping the money from those sales.
-- Brian Boyko
-- Editor, Network Performance Daily.
-- www.networkperformancedaily.com
4a. Joost, unlike any of the sites you mentioned, is a P2P-based network system. (I would point out that as use grows your speed issues could be mitigated, and that, two, you recently proclaimed NetFlix's death simply because you interviewed someone about a video P2P distribution system.) More interesting to me, this is Kazaa offering a legitimate offering.
Which makes me think of another point:
6. This is from the makers of Skype and Kazaa, two "proven" properties of the internet age.
That's your problem. You are promiscuous to your detriment. Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence
>>It was all about the way you seemed to dismiss the thing out of hand just because of the full screen thingy, which loads of games already do anyway.
I don't use games on my PC. That's what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point.
I didn't pay 50,000 bucks to watch postage stamps in flash. If Joost can be the one to change that, fine.
I'm a tech guy too, but we're outnumbered by normal guys. We as tech bloggers should focus on them as our prime directive.
Did you forget how to read?
"Most professionals know how to balance their work load and give projects they agree to look at some due diligence"
Just because you think it's your responsibility to use every new application put in front of your face doesn't mean it's any other professionals responsibility. However, because you choose to, it is your obligation to ACTUALLY test them and provide a measured critique. Not to uninstall in 5 minutes and to post whining 5 minutes later.
"I don’t use games on my PC. That’s what Xbox or Playstation for. Exactly my point."
What is your point? That video has no place on the PC and belongs on a console? That you don't fully participate in the game or video market on the PC so you aren't qualified and/or experienced? What exactly is your point? You've already conceded that you overreacted and are reevaluating so what the hell is EXACTLY your point?
It just feels much better to me, and the quality is higher than YouTube.
I find this whole shift to TV-over-the-internet (aka "over the top") pretty wild -- this industry is changing so drastically, right before our eyes.
For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It's the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.
- Allie
And Mr. 28, nope. No can do. None of your biz anyways.
For that, I definitely hand it to Joost. It’s the first viable form of Internet TV. Licensed content, quality production. No complaints here.
Agree fully.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericrice/407943934/
I have some tokens left so if anyone is interested..
-Rafe
When it went to full screen I just double clicked on the window and got a partial screen. I also found the controls on my own at 12, 3 6 and 9 o'clock in about 5 minutes.
Robert, you must have just been tired when you tried this out. Try it again. The content was interesting, the quality is good.
Joost (it's a Dutch name and means Joe simple right!?)
Take it easy lah~
I just upgraded to WMP11 -- the damned thing doesnt respect the XP UI so I uninstalled it...
I just upgraded to Office 2007 -- the damned thing doesn't respect any of my window metrics at all and violates dozens of UI conventions so I uninstalled it...
Scoble, you're an ass. Seriously.
Joost will be a media center app or Set top box client the PC and MAC are just platforms to test the client out ,while we wait for true IPTV for enter the living room .
John Dvorak doesnt like Joost either it must be a Generational thing you old man :P
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=9482
I just watched on Joost Channel 6 - Indie Flix Premier "Fields of Mudan". Wow. Talk about a heavy movie in only 23 minutes. Won a best short picture nomination from the Oscars. I can see why.
Anyway, if you do reinstall, this tragic film is pretty impressive (made by a college student). Almost worth reinstalling (you can delete when done).
To borrow from the late Senator Benson: "I know C-level execs. I have many C-level exec friends. You, Mr. Scoble, are no C-level exec". I'm not talking about C-level execs. The majority of don't have the time nor the responsibility to sign up for or test beta software. But, when they do take on a project they devote the time to do it right. So, you can frame the argument to your advantage all you like. but that wasn't the point. If you say "Yes" to agreeing to participate in a beta you owe it to the software company to apply the necessary time and commitment. That is what they are expecting of you. Otherwise, you are a waste of time to them. So, I repeat. most professionals devote the necessary time and resources to a project they agree to take on. If for nothing else, to maintain their self respect and credibility.
Played with it more, the UI is simple enough, CE style, kinda Archosish. While the full-screen was a bit of a jolt, it's obvious they are thinking in terms of a Media Centerish CE-styled app, in which case breaking Windows UI conventions is a gooooood thing.
Well one thing in common, Scoble and John both catcall, yet 90% of commenters disagree. They sure got a good publicity boost from the malcontents. :)
Not much on joost to watch anyways except for music videos.
pinkieclc@yahoo.com
Thank you, Cindy
my mail id: anand_badugu@countrywide.com
Art
aseudoni.mizado@gmail.com
Thanks
Well try again and add the advanced widget to adjust your Ï DONT WANT FULLSCREEN WHINE WHINE WHINE fobie.
It really is an cool app.
Worked fine for me since 0.8.4, and now the 0.10.3 version is almost how it should be.
(DON'T FORGET IS STILL IS IN BETA) ;)
PLZZZ. SEND ME AN INVITE FOR JOOST……..
ANYBODY..PLZ…..
at satyendra.me @gmail.com
there is a button on the controller that will get you out of full screen