Scobleizer - Latest Comments in HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Tim Marman — Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:27:20 -0000

#52 - Lack of scandals in soccer/football? Huh?

http://edition.cnn.com/2006...

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

dmad — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:26:54 -0000

@69. Well, yes. It seems even the President of FIFA thinks about scoring, and the lack thereof has him concerned. Well, whaddya know? It feels good to be right.

http://www.washingtonpost.c...

"Said Sepp: “The football isn't that bad, but there aren't enough goals -- and when there are too few goals, the public isn't very enthusiastic," Blatter told the German news agency DPA. "The essence of the game is goals." Blatter wants to devise changes that will help attackers break through increasingly sophisticated defenses."

Let's repeat again what THE PRESIDENT OF FIFA said: "The essence of the game is goals". I find this funny given that it seems every soccer nerd that commented here contends just the opposite! That goals and scoring totals have nothing to do with the quality of play.

You soccer nerds need to get on the same page.

I also note Sepp said nothing about looking into how HDTV can improve the game ;-)

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Karl Long — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:10:57 -0000

errr, how about soccer isn't so popular here because you don't have players like Zidane:
http://video.google.com/vid...

Or maybe because soccer doesn't lend itself to 15 minute intervals for advertisers.

Karl

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

redfish — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:03:56 -0000

i find all sports boring to watch on tv . oh well

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Dmad — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:34:23 -0000

The 3 subs rule always baffled me as well. I understand the "if you go out you're done" rule, but with 23 players on the club, it seems like a waste of opportunity, particularly in overtime. I appreciate the fact that how you manage your 3 subs factors into the strategy. Absent a more liberal substituion policy I would agree with your additional sub for OT. Similar to how the NBA allows an additional time out for OT's.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

tc — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:29:04 -0000

DMAD,
First off, they used to play what we would refer to as Sudden Death, although in soccer it was called Golden Goal. The first team to score in OT was the winner. I am not sure why this was changed for this world cup, nor do I understand the rationale for going to set OT periods. To me Golden Goal puts the pressure on both teams from the start of OT. This is one change I would change back and it may satisfy your need for conclusion.

As far as embarrassing the goalie or the goalie deciding the game, if you read my comments, it really is not the goalie deciding the game, but the rest of the players. All the pressure is on the shooter, since if they place the ball correctly, there is no way for the goalie to stop the shot without cheating (i.e., moving prior to the whistle and guessing the right direction). Most of the time when you see a player miss a PK it is because they didn't hit one of the four unstoppable spots, hit the ball too softly, or missed the goal. If the goalie stops the shot, it is because the shooter didn't hit the ball with the correct velocity or missed one of the four unstoppable spots.

One other change, I would implement is for OT each team gets an additional substitution. Fresh legs can make all the difference and if teams play to win in regulation, then most likely all substitutions will have been used.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

caroline589gored — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 04:51:02 -0000

Soccer will take awhile to get popular. I'm sure the NFL is finding some way to not let it happen!

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Christopher Coulter — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:52:37 -0000

Go Cubs Go...

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

jim — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 03:14:15 -0000

This theory just doesn't hold any water at all. Soccer has been hugely popular everywhere except the USA, and have you SEEN the televisions people watch soccer on around the world? They watch it on 19" CRTs mounted on the ceilings in bars. They watch it on even smaller 15-year-old living-room TVs with bad reception. The image quality is often the rough equivalent of watching a 300x200 Internet stream, and it often looks worst than that. On that equipment, they can't even see half the details you say are so compelling, yet somehow the improved image quality of HDTV is supposed to turn massive amounts of Americans into fans?!?

I don't think so.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

jean — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 01:20:38 -0000

Robert,

It is called FOOTBALL around the world, excepting the fact that the US only calls it soccer.

www.irin.co.uk

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Mark Mays — Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:13:49 -0000

OH JESUS. SCORING SCORING SCORING. Is that all people can think about? I hear all the dimwitted sportscasters say that soccer is boring because games are low scoring. These same morons piss in their pants if a baseball game is tied 1 to 1 in the bottom of the 9th*. They can appreciate the idea of a low scoring baseball game being well played because it's likely been mistake free and hallmarked by great pitching and defense. They don't really understand the nuances of the game enough to make any substantive comparisons to other sports. It's just something someone picked out as a difference between futebal and football and decided that a low score makes soccer a boring game. To say that the game lacks "action" is a ridiculous statement.

If the US men's team did better in intl. soccer, if some of our lads were commanding the kind of money Ballack will get from Chelsea, interest in the game will grow. If we could see on a regular basis people doing the kinds of things Ronaldinho can do with the ball, people will want to watch. Yeah, the Champions' League is televised on the deuce, but you gotta sneak out of the office to see it (unless you got headphones and sopcast). So, Brent, it isn't "action" that Americans love, Americans love a winner. But for intl. Soccer, it becomes like the Olympics when we only care three times a decade (give or take a time).

Yes, lots of people at the grassroots level are into soccer. It hasn't translated into either interest or much intl. success. Our farm system has to improve. We're finally out of the AYSO everyone gets to play, boys and girls together stuff. Now that we are starting to think of soccer as a sport and not an "activity" US soccer HAS to start recruiting better athletes to play the game. Why are our best players about 5'2" and a buck forty five soaking wet? If we do get big men, they are slower than the 7 year itch. We've had a couple of the best keepers in the world, and they had size, quickness and agility. Keller might have been a decent tight end for a Div 1 school.

Mr Gross is spot on about Donovan and other players not wanting to go overseas (though I wonder if they aren't convinced not to go rather than deciding to stay here based on ego). Sure, even if you do end up playing with some 1st div club in Northern England, you'll probably get a better soccer education than you would playing at Real Salt Lake.

Goebbels:
Like I said, Champions league is on ESPN 2. Also, Fox Sports gives Premiership matches late at night, and during prime time if you have digital cable or satellite (which more and more people will have).

It isn't necessarily HDTV that will make soccer popular, though those same tech advances will give people more opportunities to watch. Other things have to happen to make the game more popular.

*As would I, since I don't find baseball boring at all.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

William Luu — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:45:07 -0000

It's the same thing down here in Australia.

One of the big issues is tv coverage, and development of the game locally.

Our local league has just recently been revamped, and they are hopeful things take off on the back of what's happened at The World Cup.

Who knows what will happen? Only time will tell.

It all starts with the grassroots level.

I know you emphasise a lot on the grassroots in IT, it's the same thing with sports as well. What are the kids growing up playing?

Australia and the USA both have quite a crowded sporting arena in which the kids can grow up and participate in. TV plays a hand in all this.

The advantage the Australian squad had, is that a large majority of their players ply their trade in the European leagues. Which is a bonus as they get regular games against the big names around the world.

Even the top Brazilian players end up going to Europe to ply their trade. Perhaps American players need to follow the lead of the Australian players? Head to the European leagues, and have the players "highlighted" on sports shows and so on.

Sure, there will be players that want to stay home. But to be the best, you have to compete with the very best.

Australia seems to be doing things to try to enhance the standings of "The World Game" (aka Soccer/Football) in the eye of the general public. Perhaps the USA needs to follow-suit.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Christian Gross — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:49:30 -0000

I see that many people are saying Robert does not have a clue. Rather I have to say Robert you are convincing me to get an HDTV. I live in Europe, but have lived for over 20 years in North America (US and Canada).

Will the US "get" football? It depends on several things.

1) The US has to get with the show with respect to its league. Over the entire world all leagues work with FIFA. Who doesn't? Yupe you guessed it the US. In fact the US was the only league still playing during the world cup. No other league was active as they all quit playing four weeks before the final.

2) The US needs some role models. It is nice that the MLS exists, but until some American players start playing in the European clubs the skill of the average American player will be horrible. For example there are quite a few immigrant children who are Americans and Canadians that are getting their old citizenships back so that they can be "european players."

3) The US needs to compete on the world stage more often, including the MLS. I saw in this world cup the US has no idea how to deal with the other countries. The American players lack the skills or techniques that you only learn by playing against other styles and clubs. Sure the US will get its butt kicked for the first five or ten years. But after being butt-whipped for a while the US will learn and become a force at the world stage.

Though I fear the US will not do any of this because it means getting a butt whipping and playing second fiddle. For example Landon Donovan. Donovan is a good player but it seems he does not want to play second fiddle and thus limits himself to the US. Right now the best clubs are European, and if you want to be the best then you play for the European clubs. Donovan rather disappoints me because I thought one very positive attitude about Americans is their never say die attitude.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Tobias — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:35:59 -0000

As a big Bayern München fan myself, I am officially inviting you Robert to see a live game in Munich with me if you ever have the chance to come to Germany! The new Allianz Arena is possibly one of the best stadiums in the world right now. I had the opportunity to be at the opening game and I will never forget it. So, when do you want to come? ;-)

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Brent — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:18:00 -0000

This is just another reason to be lazy, and not go to the game to see it live!

Seriously though, the reason that Americans hate soccer, is because our sports are so much better.

Who wants to watch a bunch of grown men kick around a ball, and NOT score?

The reason that we in America love baseball, is because it is the most challenging game. The reason we love basketball, is for the high scores, and constant action. The reason we love football, is because American football allows you to actually THROW the ball and SCORE. In American football, there is no need for a goalie. There is an entire defensive team, waiting, ready to clobber the team on the other side of the line of scrimmage.

Americans like action. We are bored far too easily.

A perfect example of why soccer sucks so much, is the fact that the biggest highlight of the game, is the ejection of a player who head-butted another.

Finally, Americans cannot possibly like any sport that can end in a tie!

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

dmad — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:46:30 -0000

@58. Why not sudden death? The way I saw it yesterday those teams were just biding their time to get the OT periods over in order to penalty kicks. You might as well call the OT the cool down period because they were just waiting it out. We just had a 19 inning baseball game yesterday. And don't tell me it wasn't tiring. One of the all time best NBA games was a 3 overtime playoff game. If it had been up to FIFA, they would have stopped the game after the first overtime and had a free throw shooting contest.

Hell, why even have an OT? Just go right PK's then. Your comment that there is no physical way to stop a properly placed penalty kick is exaclty my point for eliminating them. Teams play their guts out for 120 minutes and then it comes down to how badly can we embarrass the goalie. Unlike during the match, the goalie has absolutely no help in defending the shot. Why not let the TEAMS decide, not the goalie? Wrong with sudden death. Last man standing. Why not. If they get tired, they get tired. In the NBA they play until someone wins. (But the NBA has this thing called lead changes, which I'm not sure soccer understands what that is.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Robert Scoble — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:44:42 -0000

Skeptic: this is my personal blog. Who said I was expert at anything? This blog is about things that I'm interested in. And I've invested $4,000 of my own money in HDTV which makes me just as much an expert as anyone else on the topic.

But, you are right about targeting your expertise to certain audiences. You'll probably be happier with my professional blog over at PodTech.net when it starts up. I'll make sure to focus on podcasting and videoblogging and all that stuff there. In the meantime, this still is my personal blog and I still get to write about things I want to write about. And you get to call "hooey" on me too. Which is half the fun, I guess.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Skeptic — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:20:40 -0000

I thought you were supposed to be an expert at things like Microsoft, and blogging, and now podcasting. If I want a sports, HDTV, or general sports/TV broadcasting opinion, I'll go to experts in those fields.

There's a reason why ESPN bloggers don't talk about wordpress and OPML.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

cloneofsnake — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:15:25 -0000

I think it's all about the money. US has its own sports to protect, the ppl in control are not interested in opening up money making time on TV for a "foreign" sport.

Personally, I hope football never gets popular here in the US! The ESPN and ABC commentaries sucked $h!t! Instead of talking about the game and the players in it, they keep advertising when the US team will be playing and stuff! (Actually, this goes for all world sport events on TV. TV here is way too US centric. It's much better to watch Canadian TV if you have them, they'll show the top performers in each sport instead of just showing the US atheletes, even if they suck.) A good example is the final USA game against Ghana. While the rest of the world was watching the Italy Vs. Czech game to see who qualifies, here in my office, everyone is watching the USA Ghana game, including people who didn't come to break room to watch any other games before this. How stupid is that?! Why would you want the USA to advance, when you don't know love or know this sport?! None of these people even know the name of their US players!!! (And most of them will probably not see any soccer game, until the next time USA plays in a World Cup match.)

Then there's the whole mentality of "they're not scoring". They simply don't get that this game is not only about scoring. It's about the players!! There's no time out, the players are on their own for 45 mins at a time, they're free to do whatever they want but they'll be no coaches to hold their hands and create plays for them. The strategies, the teamwork, the skills, the burst of speed, the patience, the build-up of momentum... it's the BEST game in the world, and I'm glad it hasn't been poluted by the US. Let's hope it stays that way!

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Goebbels — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:07:15 -0000

Well, it doesn't look like there's much reason to add additional reasons, but I'll give it a shot.

These will be more socialogical and particular reasons:

1. Every half-ass news and sports commentator decides to watch a few crappy American games and some of the Cup and they claim they can fix soccer. Sure, every sport undergoes change, but no, a sport shouldn't change to appeal to one country's preferences. Americans do not even know the rules nevermind understand the fundamentals. I'm always blown away when someone suggests replay... for two obvious reasons:

a. Bad calls are a part of the game and can be lived with. You have to overcome bad calls. Possibly the single greatest World Cup game was one because of a hand ball. Yes, fans bitch about it or laugh about it, but they live with it.

b. When I hear this, I ask "When?" "When? What do you mean when? After the call is made." "No, when do you stop the game, the clock?" "You mean the game doesn't stop? Well, that complicates things... How would you do replay then?" Yeah, Duh....

2. Similarly, we have proposals to eliminate offsides! This is absurd! Why not eliminate it in hockey, football, and any other game that it's fundamental to? You think the game will explode because another inch is visible on the screen, meanwhile, people don't know the offside rule or want to eliminate it completely (fundamentally destroying what the game is) that you so think will propel the sport forward.

Meanwhile, I've got to sit and listin to John McLaughlin and other douchebags who don't know about the game claiming they can "fix" it and "save" it when it remains one of the most popular sports in the world.

3. Americans don't like what we aren't good at. For the reasons previously cited and numerous others mentioned by others, we are going to continue to suck. Americans are too self-involved to realize that they are better off following an English Premier team or a Bundisliga team or the Brazilians or Argentina...

Those are a few reasons. I'll cite 2 other reasons quite specific to your claim.

1. I do not beleive HD adoption is going to be as broad as you claim over the next 5 years. Yes, I see people buying widescreen, flat panels... But I also see them buying the cheap, low-end models which actually have a crappier image than traditional CRTs.

2. What exactly are they going to watch over the next 5 years? Do you think UEFA or the Copa America is suddenly going to get picked up by ABC or ESPN? No. So they'll have 1 World Cup to appreciate. Otherwise, it's MLS which is the worst available "professional" soccer to view. The best soccer will only be on foreign tv or the Spanish/Portuguese channels. Anyone with an HD tv will have to sit and wait for 4 years for another cup. Or get a satellite service with foreign channels. How does HD increase popularity when there's almost zero to watch?

So, in conclusion, there are numerous reasons that soccer is not popular in the States, and even if this was not so, there are several limitations to HD and television coverage of soccer as well.

Any rebuttal, Scobie?

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

John Dodds — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 15:51:19 -0000

Most of this debate is just too infuriating for words, so I'll limit myself to saying that the final was a pretty awful game while the best game of the tournament by far was Germany v Italy semi-final that was goal-less for 118 of the 120 minutes.

It's not all about goals - in similar vein the most exciting hockey game I saw was a Stanley Cup game in the 80s that ran through 3 if not 4 whole periods of goal-less overtime.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

tc — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:18:54 -0000

DMAD,
You don't know soccer when you say to eliminate PK's. Your correlation to homerun derby is incorrect. What do you expect, the teams to continue on and a game decided by attrition (after the three allowed subs have been exhausted)? How does this solve the situation?

A PK is the ultimate test and it comes down to can a team shoot the ball correctly. For no matter the quality of goalkeeper, there is no physical way to stop a correctly placed PK. If the first five all for each team makes the shot then it is a one vs one match through the rest of the lineup. It can test every player on the field as demonstrated in the USL finals where it came down to the goalkeeper taking PK versus goalkeeper. It exposes a team's weakness if their players can't shoot the ball correctly. It is the ultimate test of a team's ability. They can defend admirably, but when it comes down to hit can the strike the ball properly and put it in the back of the net? The goalie can only do so much. A hard shot on the ground to just inside either post is the most difficult shot to defend (law of physics--reaction time for goalie to get down to the ground vs shortest travel distance to the second least reachable part of the goal). The second most difficult shot is the upper V, which is also undefendable (hardest spot for goalie who guesses right to reach, but is longer travel distance and more chance for shot going astray).

Why Americans don't watch is: (a) Lack of advertising opportunities (game has to be paid by someone to be put on TV), and (b) most adults (35 or older) didn't play the game growing up. If they can solve the advertising issue, it will grow in popularity since most under 35 have been exposed to the game growing up.

OBTW, as far a cheap game. Select/Premier youth soccer isn't cheap to play. For top level clubs, the costs can run $3-6K per year for a child playing, depending on number of tournaments, especially tournaments teams have to fly to. Add to this schools limiting access to fields and charging more and more for rental, the costs go up each year. This latter issue effects all sports. Gone is the day when one can go to the neighborhood school during the summer and have a pickup game (football, baseball, etc) with friends.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

Deke — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:14:50 -0000

@ Doc Searls...

Sometimes money isn't/shouldn't be the motivator. I guarantee you people would watch it if you put it on PBS. :) My daughter watches nothing but commercial-free TV. I refuse to allow her to be marketed to. We watch PBS, Noggin, Sprout, etc.
When I watch TV, I mute the commercials and surf or read until my show comes back on. I'm anti-big business in a major way in terms of being marketed to.
Likewise, I never, ever click on ads on the Internet. Like medicine, the Internet should just be free, and one day, hopefully it will be.

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

thelaggard — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:12:29 -0000

I posted a few comments during the semi-finals as to why soccer fails in the US.

1. Boring
2. We aren't good
3. Marketing

More discussion and content here:
http://thelaggard.com/blog/...

Re: HDTV will make soccer a lot more popular in America

dmad — Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:34:09 -0000

@51. Again, why do you care what we call the World Series? BTW, MLB did sponsor a "World Series" in which the US finished third. Happy now?

@52. Yea, soccer replaces breaks for advertising with uniforms logo'd up to the hilt, pitches with billboards surrounding it. Baseball lends itself to advertising breaks due to between inning and pitching changes. The NBA and the NFL could to a lot better in managing the "TV timeouts", that's for sure. It didn't used to be that way years and years ago. A lot of people in the US find it annoying. It makes watching the game in person a bit more boring. The fact that soccer doesn't have time outs and breaks for advertising is a good thing, IMHO. However, that doesn't make the game more exciting to watch.

Look, the overall question was why isn't soccer as popular in the US as the rest of the world. I gave some reasons why. But the soccer nerds think the solution to making it more popular in the US to call us idiots for not appreciating it. FIFA obviously doesn't care, otherwise they would be open to changes. But, they'd rather the game be played the same way it was when England invented it. Much like baseballs purists in the US.