DISQUS

vinnie mirchandani · 2 years ago

Robert, if I was Ray or Steve or Bill, I would quit (or at least deemphasize) focusing on Google or Yahoo or Nintendo or Apple and start focusing on pissed off enterprise customers - see below.

That is still the bread and butter...

http://dealarchitect.typepad.com/deal_architect...

Craig · 2 years ago

>Microsoft still treats each team as something that must make money.

I'm really confounded as to why you would claim this. There are plenty of teams at MS that don't have revenue and are not expected to be revenue generators, but have strategic purpose.
What is the revenue model for the Avalon team? WWF? VS Express editions? Countless others...

Kermit Croaked · 2 years ago

"Microsoft still treats each team as something that must make money."

The most idiotic statement I've seen from you, Scoble, and that's saying a lot. Good grief, when you worked at Microsoft, did you actually have a clue as to what was going on there? I know that your technical knowledge is next to zero, but even you could see there are plenty of teams at MS that aren't "must make money". Hell, look at Microsoft Research itself, which you were praising awhile ago.

Kermit Croaked · 2 years ago

BTW, I thought everyone *knew* that Google was going to merge search results from its own sites with results from the the general web. Seems that Scoble was the only one clueless as to this. And this, despite Scoble spending so much time at Google's office brown-nosing them. After all that, you didn't get a clue as to what they were actually doing? Well, you didn't have a clue what Microsoft did when you actually worked there (evidenced by your "all teams must make money" malarky), so it's not a surprise.

BTW, Microsoft and Yahoo already do include YouTube in their search results. Do a search on 'obama letterman' (not quoted together) and see the first result that comes up using either search engine.

Ben Ward · 2 years ago

I'm confused as to why you think Silverlight is Microsoft trying to get out of a box? It seems completely anti to that goal; producing a new closed and proprietary platform does nothing at all for their ability to interoperate with other web applications, be they partnerships or acquisitions.

What do you have in mind?

Jonathan · 2 years ago

How does the MS interal tech support group make money? How does the C9 group that you were a part of make money? What other groups inside MS are supposed to be making money according to Robert that aren't?
And is this whole Universal search a new idea? Everyone knew that it would come when news.google.com or images.google.com or video.google.com or whatever.google.com started that one day from the main search you would be able to search everything.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

>I know that your technical knowledge is next to zero, but even you could see there are plenty of teams at MS that aren’t “must make money”.

Implicit in that is "product teams." Research and Support teams aren't included in that. Does Research ship completed products or services for you to use? Not really (they do ship some things, but really they are more proof of concepts than things that have totally been productized and certainly you don't see Research labs kinds of things on Live.com yet for the most part). Of course there are exceptions, but the exceptions are far and few between where at Google they are almost everywhere (out of all of Google's products how many are making money? Not many).

Regarding everyone knowing that YouTube would be integrated into search. Hmmm, you must be reading different reports than I am (and I read a lot of blogs and journalists' reports, so that's saying a lot). Most people couldn't believe that YouTube was worth the price. I don't remember anyone saying that the price was worth it because they would integrate YouTube videos into the main search, which would keep Microsoft and Yahoo's quality from matching Google's.

Maybe I'm reading the wrong blogs, though.

techherding · 2 years ago

Kermit: "The most idiotic statement I’ve seen from you, Scoble, and that’s saying a lot. Good grief, when you worked at Microsoft, did you actually have a clue as to what was going on there? I know that your technical knowledge is next to zero, but even you could see there are plenty of teams at MS that aren’t “must make money”. Hell, look at Microsoft Research itself, which you were praising awhile ago."


Sheesh. Time to turn on moderation, or maybe require real email addresses. It is a great compliment to your relevance that all these little voices keep whining about you.

As a former MS drone, I understood exactly what you meant -- they didn't require that the cafeterias make money, or the landscaping crew, or the HR department. But if your BG wasn't contributing, you got hind teat and no respect. And you usually got a new VP pretty quickly.

seshadri · 2 years ago

"Implicit in that is “product teams.” "

here's a list of free 'shipping products' in the developer space
1) C++/C#/VB compilers
2) .NET clr
3) .NET libraries
4) MFC/ATL libraries
5) C/C++ libraries
6) VS express editions (to some extent. There aren't teams that just work on VS express)

"YouTube would be integrated into search"
Besides, what would this do the DMCA harboring that GOOG is hoping to use in its lawsuits? AFAIK you can't monetize content and claim DMCA safe harboring...

Mike A · 2 years ago

Microsoft still treats each team as something that must make money.

XBox and Zune don't make money. Arguably the biggest (fixable) problem right now at MSFT is that too many teams are allowed to lose money. As long as cross-subsidization of money-losing products is allowed, the teams that produce them don't have the same set of incentives that their competitors do to produce a great product.

If the products were forced to stand on their own, those that could be improved to the point at which they could compete well in the marketplace would be, and those that were unredeemable failures would be dropped. Both outcomes would be good.

Now, there may be some case to be made for cross-subsidization of products with zero marginal cost (e.g., giving away software like WMP or Adobe Reader, or your YouTube example). But having teams that build hardware (XBox, Zune, etc.) lose money year after year doesn't make any business sense at all - it's just a sign of a bloated, lazy company that is desperately trying to maintain share in too many markets.

Neal · 2 years ago

That's a funny opinion, Robert. Or is it my opinion that's odd? When I read that Google was going to incorporate videos on their search page my first thought was "Crap, looks like I won't be using Google any more."

I don't give flying you know what about videos or YouTube and only know of one, teenaged, person that does.

If videos start popping up in my Google search results, even just as text links adding to the noise, it'll be like the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and drive me from using Google any more.

Josh · 2 years ago

"Seriously, can you see an executive at Microsoft advocating putting YouTube videos into Microsoft’s search results? I can’t. That’d be the equivilent of sending traffic to a competitor."

..

I don't see why they wouldn't. The #2 result for "search engine" at Yahoo! is Google. The #2 and #3 results at Live.com for "search engine" is Google.

If your goal is to index information (and that should be a major part of any major search engine's goal), then you can't shy away from indexing all information just because a competitor creates it. Google isn't shy about indexing Yahoo content (#1 result for "stocks" is Y! Finance, #2 result for "sports" is Y! Sports, etc.), why should Microsoft or Yahoo! be shy about indexing YouTube?

If they're serious about video search (and they probably should be), the answer is: they won't be shy.

Wu MingShi · 2 years ago

Actually, if I were Yahoo or Microsoft, I will index YouTube video if I have the technology. If people are going to rival's side for the video anyway, I would rather they come to my site first. This way I am in the loop and can do something remedy this bad(???) situation.

Dare Obasanjo · 2 years ago

>Seriously, can you see an executive at Microsoft advocating putting YouTube videos into Microsoft’s search results?

Sorry to burst your bubble but YouTube, MySpace and Google Video results regularly show up in video search results on Live Search - examples include

- http://search.live.com/video/results.aspx?q=cur...
- http://search.live.com/video/results.aspx?q=you...
- http://search.live.com/video/results.aspx?q=how...

Chris Desouza · 2 years ago

All said is well and good. Google will still retain the title of the best search engine.

I give the PPC industry 2-4 years. When that tanks, Google ( at least it's market valuation and stock price) goes down with it.

met · 2 years ago

Or maybe Google knows something about us that we don't know. I'm sure they know a lot about me, my weaknesses, what links I click and what stuff I buy. And they saw something in Youtube that you and I cannot.

Josh · 2 years ago

Actually to add onto my last post, #11... Yahoo's Alpha ALREADY lists results from YouTube. Maybe they're not so quick to shy away from that as you think, Robert. :)

macbeach · 2 years ago

@5:

I think the box they are in is that they are still making money on their monopoly products, Windows and Office, both of which may have many years to go in making money.

BUT, to interest Wall Street you have to show you have something new and exciting that could explode onto the market every few years. Microsoft has a dismal track record in this regard.

What are the last three headlines concerning Microsoft/: Head lawyer threatens to sue everyone using Open Source; Head Open Source "guru" says much Open Source was stolen from MS; Bill Gates says the future computer will be the cell phone.

While all of these positions are totally idiotic. Gates is a least PRETENDING to be forward thinking (and I guess that is his job now) by looking for a new revenue stream that is not dependant (at least necessarily so) on the existing monopoly.

Seems to me like whoever is supposed to be actually running the company (and that would still be Ballmer wouldn't it?) is letting the company run totally out of control.

Reminds me of the old joke (which I'll mess up here I'm sure): "Granddad died peacefully in his sleep. The passengers in his car died screaming their heads off as he drove them off the cliff."

Philip · 2 years ago

Do you think Microsoft will ever get on the curve?
I think they will lag behind the trends in web for quite some time.

thenewg · 2 years ago

I agree with the comment about putting Microsoft in a box. How things change over time.

Reminds me of the old joke (which I’ll mess up here I’m sure): “Granddad died peacefully in his sleep. The passengers in his car died screaming their heads off as he drove them off the cliff.”

Vision is still one of the best assets with innovation I guess.

Paco · 2 years ago

MS is doomed and they know it. They are now just another company that develops software. That's it. No more, no less. There is nothing special about MS anymore.

The future is open for freedom and open source and it's about time. We need to follow the EU and be become very unfriendly towards software patents.

Soyapi · 2 years ago

"Regarding everyone knowing that YouTube would be integrated into search. Hmmm, you must be reading different reports than I am (and I read a lot of blogs and journalists’ reports, so that’s saying a lot)"

@Scoble, you might have missed Wired's Interview with Google's CEO.

Here's an excerpt that talks about search monetization with YouTube:

Wired: You thought there was a good chance of litigation when you bought YouTube. The deal set aside $200 million to cover the cost of lawsuits. Why did you make the acquisition if you anticipated so much hassle?

Schmidt: Because we think it’s fantastic. I mean, we really do think that the YouTube phenomenon is sustainable for many, many years. And the argument is simple: People are using videoclips everywhere. They’re sharing them. They’re building communities around them. YouTube’s traffic continues to grow rapidly. Video is something that we think is going to be embedded everywhere. And it makes sense, from Google’s perspective, to be the operator of the largest site that contains all that video.
Obviously, we would like to include licensed, copyrighted content -- legally -- and then make money on it. But YouTube itself can pay off -- and this is where the critics get it wrong -- in simple searches. Because, remember, when you go to YouTube, you do a search. When you go to Google, you do a search. As we integrate those searches, which we’re working on, it will drive a lot of traffic to both places. So the trick, overall, is generating more searches, more uses of Google.

Wired: Which generates more pageviews, which generates more ad revenue.

Schmidt: You got it.

Wired: Does that mean we will soon see video ads on YouTube?

Schmidt: Absolutely. ......


Read the rest at http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/0...

MacDaddy · 2 years ago

All this is pretty superfluous really, I mean, the internet is still only the internet at the end of the day. I'm sure most people have other uses for their computers than searching Google, Microsoft or whoever, I know I do. Besides, I think it's high time that Microsoft et al stop trying to assume ownership of the internet, it's rediculous. I also agree with Neal, who really cares if YouTube is returned in Google search results, I do hope Google give us the option to turn that 'feature' off.

chen2 · 2 years ago

Google's search engine offers a much greater market than MSN and Yahoo, with or without youtube.

Its wins on simplicity.

When you search for something, 99% of the ppl do not need other rubbish infos like news, weather, games, music etc. They just need clear and smart results. Even if they wanted to be entertained, many knows of websites specializing in those services.

That is why no matter how much more features Yahoo and MSN add, or how their results matches those of Google,s they still can't beat the giant

Marc · 2 years ago

The inevitable backlash against Google wont be long, and with Firefox usage on the rise I think that will mean more people blocking out adverts, which does render Google's whole revenue platform slightly useless.
As for MS always needing to make money, tell that the the guys who were on the XBox1 team!

David · 2 years ago

This is a blog entry for blog entries sake. It has no real value or worth and doesn't contribute to anything.

What is 'monetize'?

Nikolai · 2 years ago

I am getting that Foggy feeling myself.

Chris · 2 years ago

"But, to interest Wall Street you have to show you have something new and exciting that could explode onto the market every few years."

This is true - and since Wall Street has been worried that Google is a one-trick pony, slightly improving search/ad by integrating another big site into their results may not be the new and exciting source of revenue that Wall Street might have imagined possible when YouTube was acquired.

Nick Halstead · 2 years ago

I am in two minds about the merging of search 'streams' into one super search. My first thought was that I do not want irrelevant videos/images/etc interwoven with the results that I want. Why? because I am sceptical of the search engine being able to second guess what I want from a particular set of keywords. The second thing I thought was, if it works then it will save me time from having to swap between various streams thus saving me time + money.

But I cannot question that it is a stroke of genius (and forsite) and anyone saying 'it was obvious' are the same who say 'I could have thought of that'.

My own real concern is that Google is not showing signs of improving relevancy calculation, because of 'over linking' search results are becoming twisted, and although Google continue make the 'good fight' I await to see what the next generation of technology is that improves the results themselves. But for the minute Google are still way out in the lead, so who can catch up?

Crimsonleech · 2 years ago

monetize |ˌmʌnɪtʌɪz| verb [ trans. ] convert into or express in the form of currency. • [usu. as adj. ] ( monetized) adapt (a society) to the use of money : a fully monetized society. DERIVATIVES monetization |-ˌzeɪʃ(ə)n| noun ORIGIN late 19th cent.: from French monétiser, from Latin moneta ‘money.’

Moonloon · 2 years ago

I'm not as clever as half the commentators on here, but isn't this whole Google/You Tube thing a bit like describing a wank as a "hot session, with someone who's really into me, and will do ANYTHING I want" with the guys next day at work?

Keith Ballard · 2 years ago

You mean "monetize" is a real word? I thought I was reasonably literate, but I've never heard of it. If people want to communicate with the world via the Internet, then surely it would be sensible for them to use English that most people will understand? This is especially true when you consider that the vast majority of web articles are written in English, but a large number of the readers do NOT have English as their first language. They should not be excluded from debate and participation by the use of jargon, slang and awful Americanisations.

Chris · 2 years ago

Well, I do like Google's purchase of Youtube, I don't think that they will make any money from it.As a casual user of Yourtube, I like some of the user created content, but the current format of Youtube's video stream is pretty low quality. I don't think that Google's attempt to fully index Youtube's content will reveal anything other than the vast majority of it's user's content is nothing more than Copyright theft. I think that most of the Copyrighted content on Youtube is not fair use, it's just people to lazy to record a show, or to cheap to buy something they want to watch. We It comes to improving the long term prospects of the web, I'll take Microsoft's, or Apple's money making model over the other models.

David Russell · 2 years ago

That's what Google does with ALL of its 'extra' services - YouTube, Gmail, Google Apps. None of these actually make any money, they are all aimed at increasing loyalty to the Google 'brand' and increasing/maintaining Google's market share in its main search business.

Nona Yabizness · 2 years ago

Personally, I like the new word "monetize" but would prefer it to be spelt in English as monetise. It doesn't seem to look right when written in American.

Nona Yabizness · 2 years ago

Oh, and don't forget Google's calculator service... That's a non-sponsored service so I presume it support David Russell's point on building brand loyalty.

Henry Falkner · 2 years ago

This type of blabbering is what I regard as self-abuse in public.

M · 2 years ago

Neal, get out from under your rock, or your CB radio, or whatever antiquated aparatus it is that you use to amuse yourself. You remind me of my grandmother.

Chris Aubeck · 2 years ago

"This is a blog entry for blog entries sake. It has no real value or worth and doesn’t contribute to anything."


Very much the same as your comment, then?

How can anyone sit before the internet and have to ask others what a word means?

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=e...

James · 2 years ago

Comments 2, 3 & 4 are from the worst kind of MS Weenies imaginable. I can only imagine they have stock.

matt lambert · 2 years ago

What a load of vitriolic comments you're getting.

Gee whiz - I would imagine you feel like packing it all in and starting again under an assumed name.

Perhaps, just for a laugh, you should put some really opinionated stuff on here. Thanks for the laughs. Matt

V · 2 years ago

I think there's something more fundamental to all of this internet search biz than meets the eye. Advertising revenue is nothing compared to the information gathered by statistically analyzing the searches of millions and millions of consumers. Every time you search for something, you're telling Google about some desire or curiosity you have in a product, cultural artifact, etc. They can analyze this type of data and understand a great deal about emerging markets. Basically, when people search, they tell these big companies what they are about to go out and buy. I bet the major revenue comes through not by advertising but by using search data to make extremely well-informed investment decisions. Google/Microsoft/Yahoo know exactly when and what to invest money in to, and markets range from real estate to global currency to common stocks. Knowledge is power. The YouTube purchase wasn't about sending more people to Google search, it was about tacking on smart analysis software in to the back-end of YouTube, learning more about human behavior on-the-fly.

anon · 2 years ago

As far as I'm concerned, anything that drives Satansoft ah Microsoft out of business is my knight in shining armor.

Falafulu Fisi · 2 years ago

Kermit said...
The most idiotic statement I’ve seen from you, Scoble, and that’s saying a lot. Good grief, when you worked at Microsoft, did you actually have a clue as to what was going on there?

Kermit is correct here. It is obvious that you don't read computing peer review publications, which you might have missed of what different teams from Microsoft Research are doing. For example, look at the Web & Mining Group's research selected publications here.

“Web Search & Mining Group”
http://research.microsoft.com/wsm/

It is obvious that Microsoft Research are ahead of Google in terms of knowledge about universal search engine. Universal search is basically extending text search to multimedia data search, which involve computer vision & digital signal processing and these are area that Google are novice in, but Microsoft had done work on those areas in the past. All it needs from Microsoft is to combine those disparate search systems into one, then they have a universal search engine .Also read about this:

"Text-Search Tricks Speak Volumes in Image Search"
http://research.microsoft.com/news/featurestori...

I believe that the media have also hyped any story from Google, because they think that any word coming out from Google must be true.