Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Penny G. — Sat, 10 May 2008 01:41:41 -0000

What if Google had a party and nobody came? I'm guilty of using "google" to mean "search the internet"... What if I just said "search inquiry" instead? What if I took "google" off my list of "favorites", and entered every search engine known to function on my list of "favorites", and used them each in a random fashion? Would one small voice, mine, help to shape the future of the internet? Because I just want to embed CJ text link ads wherever I want to, thank you very much! And if I want to blog about my favorite paper towels and window blinds, more power to me! And if I happen to get a check for my time, how is that different than writing copy for television commercials? If I said "Winston tastes good" would you say "like a (clap, clap) cigarette should"?????

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Business research intelligence — Tue, 15 May 2007 07:28:37 -0000

Are you sure if we write for paid review of site Google will penalize ours? Please make it clear thanks for business related information for me and can get from
Business research intelligence for better business needs.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Brian — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:08:30 -0000

I predicted something like this a while ago, and I actually think reducing the PageRank effectiveness of paid links will be a good thing. It will level the playing field and put the onus back on producing quality content that people want to naturally link to, not what search engines want to count.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Eric — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:23:34 -0000

Im fairly new to the blog scene, but it is unavoidable not to notice the blogosphere bowing to the gods of google.

There does seem to be some basic freedom violation here, though Im not sure what it is yet.

Robert, do you see this ever winding up being a class action law suit against google regarding this paid link thing?

Eric

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

mblair — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:01:22 -0000

One thing that really bugs me with this is "rel=nofollow" was designed to annotate untrusted links. It has been stigmatized to mean, "I really can't vouch for this link". Google is trying to strongarm webmasters by creating an army of self-interested snitches to brand paid links as "untrusted", irregardless of their relevancy to my content and my feelings about the advertiser.

It seems to me that rel="nofollow" was a Trojan horse after all...

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Eileen — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:06:15 -0000

Bottom line: Fear sells.

I've seen Google penalize sites and whole networks for crappy SEO paid links since 2002. This is nothing new. But the timing and targeting of this piece of FUD with the DoubleClick purchase is rather interesting.

Google's whole business model is based on paid links, which is becoming more in-line with competitors like Text Link Ads and Pay Per Post as Google gives AdWords/Adsense users more control over exactly where their ads appear. Independent text link advertising agencies or even worse, independent site owners selling their own link advertising, are Google's biggest threat to their bottom line. Therefore making webmasters think that setting up their own text link advertising or going through a non-Google source could potentially get you penalized in Google organic search is a great way to drive fear-driven Google sales.

Just keep saying it over and over: Google is not the web. Google has indexed a sliver of the web and is a fine and dandy tool when it works. But really, content and links, which are simply relationships between websites are the web. And for the web to grow, people need to be able to monetize their websites in a free market economy as they please without feeling bullied into giving anyone else a cut of the revenue. Monetization is the only way that people can afford to create the high quality content that should be the basis of search engine rankings anyhow.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Todd — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:54:27 -0000

i'd be happy to teach you farsi. here's a poem you can tell maryam-joon:
====================
Gar bemirad dokhtari
Az ghabr-e u ruyad goli
Gar bemirand dokhtaraan
Donyaa golestaan mishavad
====================

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Brian White — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:24:31 -0000

@38: "...They should work on fixing the system..."

Matt's call was for reports of cases where people see paid hyperlinking going on, and is designed to solicit feedback in order to do precisely what you suggest.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Elaine Vigneault — Mon, 16 Apr 2007 00:41:59 -0000

The system its self is flawed. They should work on fixing the system rather than controlling people within it. I can understand and appreciate the desire to differentiate between paid and unpaid links, but Google’s attempt appears disingenuous. It looks more like they want to control the link economy that they created than accept the natural effects of such an economy.

Here's my response:
http://www.elainevigneault....

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Kamal Jain — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:50:33 -0000

Robert@29, I am not saying do not give different weightage to link organically gained vs paid link.

But a search engine's job is to observe the internet as is and report back the relevant site to a searcher. Design new algorithms as necessary. But dictating what people should do is wrong for the longterm. It is against the very notion of liberty and if I could use the "e" word, it is pure evil.

Let people do whatever they want to do with their websites. May be new business models will come out which are beneficial for people. May be that's the reason that the idea of paid-links creates a notion of punishment from google. If there were several equally popular search engines then one would not see the dictation on how the web should look like from a search-engine.

I should re-emphasize, a search-engine's job is not to dictate the evolution of web. Its job is to observe the web as is and list the most relevant websites to a searcher.

Microsoft followed this in the development of its core product, i.e., OS. Microsoft never said you should not use your computer for such and such use. Even if those uses sometime create security risks. Instead Microsoft tried to adapt the OS to people's need and not adapt the needs of people to the OS. If you do not dictate people and give a tool then you empower them.

Google has empowered the people by improving a tool, called web-search. If they dictate the web then they are going for short-term gain at the expense of long-term.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

wreck — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:22:12 -0000

@34,

Easy. People pay to surf through their ISP, some monthly, some annually.

A company could be set up that is, in effect, an ISP of sorts, but which controls this commercial-free alternet. You pay to play, but all sites within this private network are forced to remain ad-free, no commercialization whatsoever. Easy to do and easy to enforce. By default, no links from outside sites would enter in or leave this alternet, done by ACLs/firewalls. Easy as pie.

I see no ads on the net if I choose not to. I don't like being marketed to. So to say it's impossible is simply not true. Of course, there would need to be a certain threshold of users to make it feasible, but feasible it is.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Karoli — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:57:28 -0000

Wreck,

You're dreaming if you think you can have an ad-free Internet and not have money change hands in some fashion. It's just that you'll have a pay-to-play model instead of an ad-based model. It's similar to the differences between cable TV premium stations and commercial TV. You can pay the cable bill and skip the commercials or you can put up with the commercials and keep what you'd spend on cable (assuming you were in an area that picked up commercial TV...some areas you're just stuck with it no matter what.)

How do you propose site owners pay for bandwidth and hosting? Should they just give it away? Why? What incentive is there for them to do such a thing?

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

wreck — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:50:53 -0000

Google, like MS's OS/Office monopoly, has become far too powerful in it's control over a large portion of how the Internet is presented to people and how they interact. This is further proof that the Internet needs less commercialization, not more.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Robert Scoble — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:49:50 -0000

Wreck: I don't care if 100% of you want to start such an alternet. I guarantee you that it would turn commercial within a week. Why? Because when money is involved people change their behavior. And money WOULD get involved in such a system. Guaranteed!

It might look different than the system we have today.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

wreck — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:39:39 -0000

Robert,

I disagree. I suggest to you that if you took a poll on this very blog, you'd find quite a bit of support for an ad-free, commercial free "alternet".

People like me who block ads and who hate the monetizing of every last scrap of the net would buy into something like this.

Why don't you run a poll and ask. It's very easy to set something like this up. As a matter of fact, in NY and other large cities, there are "alternets" which are invite only, and they are substantial in membership. Nothing commericial allowed and people love it. Now, extrapolate this into something like craiglist, but only the masses are allowed (the punters, everyday people), blogs and personal sites only with no commercial interests allowed.

I know this would take off if given the attention and time required.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Karoli — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:35:38 -0000

I think Matt Cutts confirmed what many believed was true long ago, and I appreciate him doing it.

I disclose at the top of every paid post (and there aren't that many). It's not a big deal, and it's required by PPP anyway.

Here's something that really bothers me, though. Google has just introduced an augmentation of their text links that includes linking text within a post to their own advertising. (3/21/07) Isn't it a little bit of a conflict of interest for them to come out and say that undisclosed links will devalue one's search results when they are doing the exact same thing?

Ad formats: You can create text ads, image ads, or our new text link ad format in your pay-per-action campaign. Text link ads are brief text descriptions that take on the characteristics of a publisher’s page. These Javascript-based ads will display like regular hyperlinks and allow publishers to embed these links inline with other text to promote your product or service.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Robert Scoble — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:35:21 -0000

Kamal: relevancy on a search engine is a tough topic, which is why Microsoft still hasn't caught up to Google even after spending a LOT of resources on it.

But, not grokking that organically-gained links are more important than links than are gamed through financial gain defines for me one reason why Microsoft hasn't caught up to Google.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Robert Scoble — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:32:50 -0000

Wreck: such a system would be commercialized somehow the INSTANT it got popular. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

wreck — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:06:11 -0000

I think we need a second, ad-free Internet that is completely non-commercial. No ads, nothing sponsored. Just blogs, info, etc.

This could easily be done and paid for by people willing to use the system.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Ian Muir — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:02:30 -0000

Yeah Google! There should be only 2 techniques for SEO: build your site correctly and put something worth reading on it. Do that and you'll do well.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Chris Lindgren — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:58:35 -0000

I don't think google can handle the issues involved around paid links. They are just letting the idea float and hoping the content providers correct out of fear of being dropped from the results.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Kamal Jain — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:37:08 -0000

Robert@22,

You got the point right. It is a typical business practice to undermine other ways of creating values which do not pass through your own. Google itself tries to confuse people at least does not help much for people to differentiate between organic links and paid links.

Google own business model is around paid links, and therefore they want to hurt such business models from others -- as long as this can be covered as consumer friendly. I do not see why should I be punished for putting a link for reasons other than genuine. I do not understand Google's definition of genuine, but for me a link given for money is quite genuine too. The only thing wrong is that Google ranking algorithm has assumed one definition of "genuinity" which they want to force on others, instead of improving their own algorithms.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Robert Scoble — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:02:19 -0000

Google gets paid only when you click on those ads, so I think there's a lot of pressure to make the ads appear like regular search results.

That said, this was about making sure that other companies don't try to get in on Google's main business. Google clearly wants to be the only place you can legitimately buy search engine results. Both to keep its organic results clean and with high relevancy but also to protect its advertising business.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

David Dalka — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:02:04 -0000

I think it's humerous to have Google announce this when they just bought a division of Doubleclick - Performics - which has an Search Engine Optimization division.

Rather than focus on a non-problem, they should be focusing on banning splogs and made for adsense sites.

Re: Google to penalize bloggers selling links?

Kamal Jain — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:16:04 -0000

Robert, I know people who do not distinguish ads from content, especially on a search engine. They do not know that the link on the top and on the right are paid. Since this post is about Google, I have a question about Matt Cutts (I know this criticism applies to other companies, including mine too).

What Google is doing about this? Does Google do experiments with UI to find the best way to educate people that these links are paid. Some experiments to do:

1. Try changing the color of "Sponsored Links" from invisible Gray to a bright color. Everything else seems to be quite bright on their search page.

2. Try changing the wordings from "sponsored links" to "paid links".

As far as I see, Google and many other companies tries to find ways to hide the "payment" expect. Many companies simply hide and many other tries to do so in a hypocritical manner -- sort of an analogue of fine print. For an example try to blend your ads with the content. Sort of Google is saying, we did mention that it is a paid link, but people you missed to read/interpret this information. We do not see that we knowingly tried to mislead people by blending our ads with our content.

I think "values" must be self created and not imposed. I would love if people disclose like you do, but this decision must be made by that individual. That individual has to see tha trade-offs. This is called freedom of speech. Whether it is done for money or not.

As far as for a public campany or an institution, I think they have a lot to lose if they do not follow the values. Such as telling their conflicts or other incentives to their audience.

Disclaimer: The commentator is a senior researcher in microsoft. This opinion is his own.