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Quick: tell those articles on Memeorandum apart. One is the real Google blog. What are the other ones? Reprints? Hmmm.
But you are missing the real story at play here, click fraud. Your friends and everyone else are making money of the backs of duped advertisers. Hell to pay when that bubble pops.
That Desktop App is a privacy nightmare, don't use in China that's for sure. And gmail totally creeps me out with the near instant Ad Sense keywording ads, before I even have a chance to read the email. But it's been crashing so much, downright useless half the time, AJAX phasw.
I read an article lately in a programmers magazine that talked about RIA (rich internet applications) with all the regular hype "It's gonna be bigggg!!!!". Anyway one thing that got me was that they mentioned AJAX, XUL, Sparkle, Lazlo, and ROR but did not once mention Adobe Flex 2.0 or 1.5?
Is journalism becoming biased? Here are the facts/comparisons, but we’ll leave out mentions of the ones we don’t like, or bothered to research on. Or we only like open source so that’s all we’ll talk about. Not that the readers of the information would benefit from a round table article that covers all the corners. I have to believe that open source junky or not, most developers try to use the tool best suited for the job at hand (err could be wrong). Or maybe it just sells more adSence….
In any case I read it, and was not surprised. However, I doubt it’ll get that far. It just smells bad corporate data stored on Google server “Pheewwwww !”. But hey, don’t be evil…
Jason
While with Gmail, it works with any modern browser and you can't give away invites anymore they are so many.
Besides, from what I have seen, I like Gmail's interface better then Windows Live Mail. Simpiler, faster, and does what I need. Not to mention the constant little improvements.
As for Google ads, it's a choice among limited alternatives based on perceived functionality and utility just like anything else. When Microsoft's adCenter or Yahoo's YPN get out of beta, the calculation may change, but today's ubiquity of Google Ads is a reflection of the state of the market, not some grand conspiracy.
Perhaps the memeo entry has changed, but several of the bloggers there now don't run Google ads. Me, for example.
And I'm sure many of the ones who do get maybe $10 a month out of Google. We live in a different ad revenue universe than yours. So I think describing them as being sponsored by Google is a little over the top, with all due respect.
I have tried the new hotmail beta and it sucks beyond any doubt. Don't even get me started on the Hotmail SPAM filters.
Cheers :)
But is that related to Google AdSense ads on their blogs ? Well ! I dont know ... I still indulge in my bits of Google bashing and still using those Google products that add value to my life (Search, Gmail, Desktop search)
Mike
How much does Microsoft spend on advertising with WSJ and InformationWeek? With Gartner and Forrester? With Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs? Should we not ask if their reporters, industry and financial analysts are magnitude more biased towards Microsoft than some blogger who earns pennies from Google ads?
This week has been full of "conflict of interest" discussions. The WSJ on bloggers. InformationWeek on industry analysts. But as I wrote on my blog - The buyer is in charge, has been in charge, will be in charge. That is why most well structured procurements take input from a number of sources and have various steps in the process, and minimize any bias any single influencer may have.
And larger vendors still have more bucks to spend on the traditional influencers. So the question to ask is - Microsoft, why did you not publicize the MSN announcement yourself - spend a bit of the $ 8+b budget? Could it be because you really do not want to cannibalize your enterprise Outlook revenues?
-James
Perhaps the better question to be asking is why Microsoft isn't more successful in reaching the audience that at least you are concerned about in your post - here on the blogosphere. At least half of the follow-ups I've read didn't even know about the MSN hosting offering (I sure didn't). It just can't credibly be laid at the foot of financial bias among bloggers.
So - where's Microsoft's marketing mojo?
One of the comments above asked if the journalism is becoming biased. Personally, I believe journalism is rarely unbiased but in today's world, especially tech wise it became "easy" more than it is biased. What I mean is that I imagine a journalist's job (no offense) became to monitor meme trackers, A-list bloggers and write about the hype rather than what is underneath without doing much or any research.
Google's announcement is news because they have no existing business to cannibalize--the possibility that they can hurt MS's Exchange business is apparent.
Microsoft, OTOH, is positioning itself to cannibalize its existing business, but will it pull the trigger if it's not forced to?
I doubt it.
Off the top of my head, the only company that cannibalizes its existing businesses early and often is Apple.
And if you want to know how MS treats its fans I can tell you about some real examples.
If the NYT was making 10M$ from Pepsi, you can bet that would have a subtle effect. However, if they were making 13$/year from Pepsi I don't think so. Does the NYT feel pressure from every single classifieds advertiser?
And, as far as MS doing this first, so? I'm more of a Microsoft fan than most folk, but the central point of this is true: web-based apps are making a run on desktop-based ones. And, like it or not, Gmail is (perception-wise and influence-wise, ESPECIALLY with the market that we're talking about) big boy in web-based, and Exchange is the big boy in desktop-based.
While the "headlines" (when you get down to semantics) on Memeorandum aren't reflecting the "truth" (however you slice it) of the matter, the core story is still there.
Instead of arguing with the semantics of this, why not expand the discussion? Personally I couldn't care less about the webmail debate. I only use Gmail for archiving all of my email and then for fast searching. Soon as I have O
If the NYT was making 10M$ from Pepsi, you can bet that would have a subtle effect. However, if they were making 13$/year from Pepsi I don't think so. Does the NYT feel pressure from every single classifieds advertiser?
And, as far as MS doing this first, so? I'm more of a Microsoft fan than most folk, but the central point of this is true: web-based apps are making a run on desktop-based ones. And, like it or not, Gmail is (perception-wise and influence-wise, ESPECIALLY with the market that we're talking about) big boy in web-based, and Exchange is the big boy in desktop-based.
While the "headlines" (when you get down to semantics) on Memeorandum aren't reflecting the "truth" (however you slice it) of the matter, the core story is still there.
Instead of arguing with the semantics of this, why not expand the discussion? Personally I couldn't care less about the webmail debate. I only use Gmail for archiving all of my email and then for fast searching. Soon as I have O12 I'll only use it for online archiving (since search is so, so much better in O12). It's a non-issue for me. As is your cry (continuously, this is the 4th or 5th post this year on it) that bloggers get tainted by ad dollars from AdSense.
It's okay, though, if this matter isn't solved in your head by Blogonomics we'll have lots of time to talk it out ;-)
As for Google's Adsense biasing bloggers, I doubt that is really a factor. I threw the code for it on my site because it was an easy way to make a buck. So far I'm having more trouble making that second buck. I never think of the consequences of what I write because I don't feel that Google cares what my opinions are as long as they can take up a little space on my site.
Maybe because people see MSN and Outlook as the same company?
It's also news because it tries to break the near-monopoly MS has on mail clients in large organizations. Maybe Robert has numbers, but I would think the % of large corporations that run Exchange and Outlook is large.
you say "Every single blogger on that Memeorandum entry is sponsored by Google ads."
Mine - Deal Architect is not...
my firm does help CIOs evaluate and negotiate tech contracts and anything to help reduce the cost of Exchange and the related outsourcing and internal labor whether from MSN or Google is welcome...
<Daria>
Aren't you even a little afraid that there's a hell?
</Daria>
"Microsoft already has this with its Windows Live Custom Domain management. I tried it out today and were it not for the fact that I’m so in love with GMail and the pitiful amount of storage each account comes with, I would have been very tempted to shift all of our company mail accounts to this system. When Google allows me to manage my domains with them, and assuming we can keep out muti-gig maiboxes, I’ll be there in a flash."
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB11396180511...
1. Bloggers speak of Google related news to earn adword hits. If it was so, Google would have been an echo chamber where all self realted searched would have happened. I presume folks do search for M$FT too on Google. If you feel that folks arent interested in what you are doing, thats another problem, nothing to do with adwords.
2. I guess M$FT spends a lot of money in Advertising. Say it is 5Billion$ a year. I can always say that Wall Street Journal or The Economist is biased towards you as it earns a lot of money from you. Isnt it the same logic you propound?
And you know what? it's all true.
There ARE a LOT of people who will diss or ignore everything you do because you're MS. Over the last 20years or so, the actions of yor company has made so many enemies, both within the and without the industry. You ARE being ignored where possible, because people don't like you, because they don't like how you go about your business.
They're lying to you. I know on our social networking website people have requested direct google adsense integration, so I am working on that this week.
Don't believe everything everyone tells you. BTW, http://www.milliondollartoilet.com Let people know please. We're using the money to fund our new free open source linux distro at http://www.deitylinux.org. So it's not money that's going on fancy cars and fast women.
"Just the other day I ordered cheeseburger and the person serving me my lunch asked me if I knew that Google had invented the idea of cheesy meat between two slices of bread three years ago… and it's been in beta ever since. :-) Yeah, yeah, perhaps I’m being dramatic but sometimes I feel like Google is going to overshadow Al Gore and get credit for inventing the Internet."
I think we all need to get over our Google love.
Google isn't in the middle of having to comply with one of the biggest anti-trust settlements in US history. Not to mention korea, and Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if the govt of zimbabwe doesn't have them jump through some hoops as well.
The Govt says jump and Microsoft says "how high"?
They do whatever the govts ask of them as long as they're allowed to keep making money. That's the bottom line for a corporation. Everything else is an afterthought. The money microsoft put into humanizing it's image was wasted indeed. No matter how much money you spend, people won't believe bs.
these ads are from all the companies that paid for them. google is just a intermediary.
MSN and google will probably end up charging you an arm and a leg in the long run. When you purchase your own webmail software, you get to keep it indefinately with no recurring charges.
There's no need to have Microsoft and Google man handle your precious and valuable SQL data when you can keep it all under your own control on your own hosting on your own website of your choosing.
That's the power of a php based script solution.
However there is WISDOM in the concept. Is an One Hour the New Day?
In Certain Circumstances...I think So.
At any rate, I believe the press always prefers to report on the "underdog", even when it is a mis-perception.
AdSense clients are not employees of Google. If anything, Google is their employee, since Google gets money from something happening on the client's site. How about that?
Did you miss all the FON controversy or is this your take on the same problem?
I signed up for MS Live Domain quite a while back. Like the interface and like Hotmail.
However, I will give Gmail Domains a shot as well before I can compare the two.
But yes, MS did do it before Google.
By contrast, Google is offering the Gmail interface, which continues to innovate. In fact, it continued to innovate this week, with this Gmail Chat thing, which is pretty darn slick.
Now, you could argue that Kahuna or whatever will be better than Gmail's interface, and maybe you're right, but have to realize that most people probably want Google to win. They may not be perfectly happy with Google, but to the average technologically literate user, Microsoft is literally "The tyranny of evil men".
Consider:
- You're a convicted monopolist, AND the same people who got you convicted for being a monopolist are still in charge!
- You indulge in coercive software development (e.g., "Want Halo 2? Then you have to buy Vista!"
- You've spent years improving the Windows security model -- but Vista has already had major security patches, and it's not even out yet!
- You heedlessly rushed into China, and indulged in crazy, not-even-required-the-government filtering, and then censored one dude's blog the whole world over. Not that you're as bad as Yahoo (to my knowledge, nobody has been sent to jail as a result of your business in China), but when I couldn't even make a blog with the word 'democracy' in the title, it looked *really* bad, and played to all our paranoid fantasies.
- Your CEO is an ogre who sweats too much
- Your OS and products are consistently buggy and half-assed.
- You whine when you products don't get coverage, and then level unfounded charges of bias against them. This makes you look like a confused medley of bully and whiny 7 year old.
I generally like your blog, Scoble, and I generally think that Microsoft is taking some good steps forward. However, your comments in this post indicate retrograde motion on the clue scale, and in particular you need to acknowledge that most people have plenty of legitimate reasons to not heap glowing praise on new Microsoft products.
Would I use some lamo 3rd tier generic service?
HELL FUCKING NO.
Yeah, the website I VISIT knows how to add a large service like email by pressing a button. They must be really trustworthy.
If you use a custom webmail system like phpmail, or socketmail or whatever where you can get the source code and customize it to be unique and work with your own server's sendmail, and pop/imap MTA's, you're keeping the database, which should rightfully be on your server, since they're using your website, and you're showing visitors that you're financed enough and professional enough to have a unique service and handle mail exchange for users.
People can tell when you take the no brainer route and alot of people don't like it.
They don't trust it. It's like trusting a website on geocities with money for pop ad software or some other internet commodity.
http://searchscandals.blogspot.com/
Great point. But I wouldn't assume there was ever a forward motion, just whomever pays the bills, and whomever can provide the limelight blog happy party life is where his flag will fly.
Google should be sued for its new google desktop.
I talk about it because it worries me more than if, say, Microsoft relaunched it tomorrow. In part this is because I see MS as much more open than I did 2 years ago, and much more so than Google. (blogging has certainly helped this lots!) Google's aquisition of people's data continue unabated and this worries me. That's why I raised it.
I will say, however, that I thought IE7 was a dog despite it's beta status. The interface looks even worse than SeaMonkey or Firefox, and they look like worn out burros comapred to say, Opera or Safari.
http://www.squirrelmail.org/
Cpanel, ensim and plesk all use these for webmail for pop accounts for customer domain accounts for webhosting.
As for checking pop accounts on a webmail interface and not offering a public or private email service, free open source has beat microsoft AND google for YEARS now. YEARS .... YEEEAAAAARRRRRSSS.....
Why not talk about them, huh press?
Oh, there's no money in, it, you PILFERING GRABASSES!!!
I'm happy for you to complain about Google getting the credit, but next time BillG stands up and tells us all how in the next version of 'whatever' we're going to get this uber-new cool functionality that has actually existed in other systems for years, then by God I hope you complain about that too!
I'm so sick of reading these stories about MS adding stuff that has existed in Mac OS / Linux / UNIX for years and then telling us how innovative MS is!
:-)
Google is the best of the web....
Google are giving a server based email solution that would make desktop outlook obsolete. Web outlook sucks (oh I dare you to argue otherwise!)
I think that warrants a rather impressive step back. From all the progress we have made we fail to realise, this will become the first real web application that will usurp a desktop one.
By that I mean we have all been using webmail, but the desktop component that remained in business email and domain based email that companies use can now be thrown out.
I expect huge numbers going for this integration because most webmail sucks, for what is a trivial application. (the 7 or 8 I have used).
Do you use outlook?
>Your employment sidebar should add Lenova, OQO, Nokia, Motion and bunch of others then. Are you in on the Edgeio deal too?
Um, the machines and stuff from Lenova, OQO, Nokia, and Motion are loaners.
I am not getting a dime from Edgeio.
Maybe you should have a chat with the guys over at MSN and see what they can do to eliminate some of that crap. I know my boss wouldn't care if he walked by and saw me looking at GMail, but if he walked by and saw a half naked chick, he'd be a tad less understanding (even if it were just an ad in my webmail). You do the math...
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