-
Website
http://www.scobleizer.com/ -
Original page
http://scobleizer.com/2006/10/19/firefox-vs-ie-7-ie7-having-trouble-with-google-sites/ -
Subscribe
All Comments -
Community
-
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
All Comments
I launched both browsers here pointing to techmeme.com and the load times were about the same.
I just wish both browsers made it easier to download enclosures so podcast subscribers would have a no-brainer experience in subscribing to feeds.
- The "new tab" option is not very intuitive and took me a while to figure out.
- Can't close a tab directly (no "x" on it).
- The Print functionality seems much better.
- Quicktabs could be useful. Firefox had a plugin for this, but I never bothered installing it.
Hmm...not sure whether I'll continue using it..
Maybe this will help.
- The “new tab” option is not very intuitive and took me a while to figure out.
It's a blank tab, vs. Firefox's use of File, New Tab
- Can’t close a tab directly (no “x” on it).
If you have more than one tab going, there's an X on each one when it is active, or just right-click on the tab you wish to close, and choose Close.
- The Print functionality seems much better.
I agree, the shrink to fit is great!
- Quicktabs could be useful. Firefox had a plugin for this, but I never bothered installing it.
I don't install any Firefox plug-ins.
Middle-click or Ctrl-click a link on a page, it opens in a new tab.
Ctrl-T is a shortcut for New Tab.
IE7 is supposed to be faster..however I felt that IE6 was much better (on the speed front) !
Besides, firefox already gives me all I could want in a browser.
Great... yet even more browser incompatibilities that have to be solved not by the people producing the browsers, but the web site programmers and designers.
I vote everyone move to FF2.0, all other browsers be outlawed, and the wold can move on with a lot less needless stress and wasted time.
I haven't downloaded the release version yet, but another problem I had with the betas was the inability to open a new tab that has the URL of the prior tab, much like "File|New|Window" works.
That might demonstrate that IE developers might need to do some homework to get their browser to be performant with ... Web 2.0 websites.
Why are you still whoring for Microsoft when they've stopped giving you paychecks?
This is not an incompatibility. It's just slow. They both do the same thing as far as I can tell (at least on the sites I mentioned).
If there's a way to do AJAX that works well in both browsers, why not do that? The virtualearth.com team found some way to do that.
You couldn't drag the little thing..
so after scrolling to say, result # 200... if I wanted to go to result # 20 again, I'd have to scroll through them all, or re-search for the term and scroll down again.
Pagination is useful!
If you think this is whoring I don't even want you as a reader. Please go away. I want smart readers. If you've been reading me over the past month you've been seeing that I've been pretty darn tough on Microsoft.
It’s a really nice program - no tab bar, no tool bar, no menu bar. Instead, a clean-sheet look at how the GUI of a browser should work, maximising screen real-estate. And you know what? It works!
I must say I've also used it to browse Google Reader and Gmail. Maybe if I timed it it might turn out to be slower than Firefox (which itself is *a lot* slower than Opera), but I haven't noticed.
http://secunia.com/advisories/22477/
I say this because, FF 2.0 chugs like a hippo on my everyday Vista box and IE7 feels snappy as all get out. So much so, that I'm retraining myself not to miss FF's wonderful extensibility.
Which browser's better is totally subjective, but your speed claims smell like the usual Scoble "I'm just going to write it because no one ever fact checks me" b.s.
People repeat what you say as an authority, how about writing something authoritative now and again?
-------------------------------------
Yep, Microsoft caved in to the troglodite. I hate when they do that; they seem to lack the guts to move forward for fear of offending anyone. Thank God the Office team didn't back off of its new UI. But at least Live.com still uses infinite scroll for its image search.
For example, re-sorting a table with 100 rows in IE might take 20 seconds, while on Firefox it takes just about 3 seconds. Now, if that table has 200 rows, IE can take up to 2 minutes!!! Firefox, just about 15 seconds.
That explains why MSN couldn't keep growing the table larger and larger. It works ok with static content, but not if you plan on adding, removing or re-arranging the rows of the table.
1) Glad to have tabs (long time coming...)
2) Mixed feelings on the add new tab noobin on the end of tab row. Good for average user as it makes adding new tab easily. Apperance is annoying to me...wish I could turn it off, but whatever.
2) Wish that the 'X' was on every tab regardless of whether it is selected or not
3) Wish I could customize how it looks. For instance, would love to have the bottom row be only tabs...no Favorties, home, etc. Would love to move icons around.
Thanks to the team for working to create something new. A refresh was needed. Still like Safari and Firefox way better. IE 7 just doesnt feel right when I open it. Just feels...unnatural. I dont open it and feel "ahhhhhhhh". I feel akward, similar to going to a disfunctional website and not wanting to stay and read.
(Despite having a gmail account, The only Google site I really use is Groups, just to browse some usenet groups, and I've had no speed problems regarding IE on that site.)
>>another problem I had with the [IE7] betas was the inability to open a new tab that has the URL of the prior tab, much like “File|New|Window” works.
One way is pressing ALT + ENTER in the address bar. That opens the url in a different tab.
Steve Jobs (played by Noah Wyle): "We are better than you are....we have better stuff."
Bill Gates (played by Anthony Michael Hall):"You don't get it Steve...that doesn't matter !"
YouTube link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=2GEDy042iNM
----
Firefox has been a better browser than IE6, and that didn't matter to a lot of users who were comfortable with IE6 and thus didn't bother getting Firefox.
IE7 is now an arguably better browser than Firefox1.5, and that is not going to matter to folks already comfortable with Firefox.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20061019/tc_pcw...
Sites doing AJAX/Javascript code should go look at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/08/28/728...
- that and the other article in the series talks about how to make Javascript/Ajax sites really,really fast on Internet Explorer.
I know that several members of the JScript team do read your blog - so consider your comments heard :-)
Robert - I work next door to the team owns the scripting engine in IE (they run all the Javascript code).
Sites doing AJAX/Javascript code should go look at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/08/28/728...
- that and the other article in the series talks about how to make Javascript/Ajax sites really,really fast on Internet Explorer.
I know that several members of the JScript team do read your blog - so consider your comments heard :-)
Firefox can do it. Be like Firefox.
As comment #47 said, turn it off if you want full speed. But, on second thought, keep it on and take the few seconds in extra load time. You'll be safer.
1) The start up page with settings is a nice touch, great way to introduce new features/settings without some silly flash tutorial.
2) Quick tabs, simple and elegant way to get a visual of your open tabs without over gadgetizing it.
3) Tabbed browsing implementation (now tooting own horn): scrolling and the dropdown with the list of tabs is something that we thought would be better when you've got 20 or 30 tabs open. It might be easier to pick from a dropdown where you can read the name rather than a 20px wide tab when the bar is full. And new tabs spawned from a page open directly to the right of the original tab. One of the things that I disliked about firefox and safari is that i'm browsing and open a link in a new tab and it opens way to the end of the stack -- out of context from where I was. But, I know it's not something people will be used to. I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
"There are many haunting problems with both browsers like memory leaks and memory bloating. However, what makes Firefox so much faster on rich web-based apps (AJAX, DHTML) is that its JavaScript interepreter and the DOM manipulation are about 6-10 times faster than IE’s. I measure it.
For example, re-sorting a table with 100 rows in IE might take 20 seconds, while on Firefox it takes just about 3 seconds. Now, if that table has 200 rows, IE can take up to 2 minutes!!! Firefox, just about 15 seconds."
This is what I have been worried: Memory leaks and memory bloating on Web 2.0 sites using AJAX to create seamless user experience without page refresh. If Marcelo Calbucci's measurement is accurate with consistency, Web 2.0 is in trouble :(
3 sec vs 20 sec in web world is equivalent to Live or Die. Do you guys remember Friendster's story?Friendster lose to Myspace in speed.
Web 2.0 community have to do more measurements. We probably have to go back to our kitchen tables and deal with this.
Headache: Still have to hack IE6 and deal with IE7's memory leaks
btw what went relatively under the radar: FF RC2 had improved on already terrific JS/DOM performance and now on most intensive web 2.0 pages it may be up to x50 (!!) times faster then IE. http://tinyurl.com/u4b5e Firefox seems to quickly becoming "official" web 2.0 browser...
So I did a rollback and am NOT updating IE7 again thanks all the same.
When (or if) 'ie' fully supports css, and ... and ... etc then you say it works - until then ignore this pile of sewage.
Remember Robert - there are standards and microsoft ideas. Microsoft is not important, the standards are, the inability of ms to follow these standards is well proven. Incidentally this might cause many web 2 startups to fail, and some cybercafes if the only html viewer is ie - (hint dont use an easyinternet cafe for web apps), but then windows live is much better and its owned by microsoft as well.
I hope some web 2 startups sue microsoft. I see a 'restraint of trade' thing.
Also, Microsoft has, in the past, been at the forfront of Web standards support. Who did CSS support first? IE. Who had an object model most developers could figure out first? IE.
So, take your hatred of Microsoft somewhere else like Slashdot please.
Writing a page of validated standard html that acts and looks similiar on many browsers (including windows) should not be that tricky to pull off
If by following the xhtml standard - im a religous freak then the w3c is doomed.
IE7's tab context menu annoys me even more than the performance. "New Tab" and "Close Tab" are switched around. While beta testing, I closed a ton of tabs unintentionally.
The only big features Firefox didn't have was the phishing filter and Quick Tabs, but now their both available in Firefox. They were actually available before 2.0 through extensions. There's really no reason for me to switch back to IE for this release.
I think the big feature IE is missing is a nice and easy extension model backed by a large community. This is what keeps Firefox ahead of everyone else.
FireFox simply cheats:
http://blogs.msdn.com/kevinha/archive/2006/10/2...
(Yes, that's the same as the pingback above.)
Assume Microsoft does nothing and is blind with PR success on IE7 release.
My prediction:
1st wave of Web 2.0 sites get hit the most in severe degree are the social networking sites. Teens and young adults are spending few hours on these web 2.0 sites daily. They will be the first to notice the unbearable longer responses on IE7. These smart consumers will quickly find out the easiest way is to dump IE7 and switch over to Firefox, rather than rollback to IE6. These social networking users will spread the word out like fire. Auto updates will accelerate the Firefox switch over.
Next are the Productivity web 2.0 sites like webtop applications. Simply asking clients to switch to Firefox will solve the issue. If clients want to run office 2.0 app without buying Microsoft product, they surely wouldn't mind to switch to FireFox that is Free and faster.
In the next 3-6 months, Firefox market share will be mysteriously climbing up faster than usual thanks to the IE auto update.
>I must say I’ve also used it [IE7] to
>browse Google Reader and Gmail. Maybe
>if I timed it it might turn out to be
>slower than Firefox (which itself is
>*a lot* slower than Opera), but I haven’t
>noticed.
Can you list some sites where Firefox is "a lot" slower than Opera? I'm practically a full-time Opera user, and frankly, I've never seen any. I rarely see any where Firefox isn't faster, often a lot faster, and that's even after tricking out Opera with every recommended speed trick in the book (something you don't need to do with Firefox).
And note that I'm not talking about artificial benchmarks that show Opera is faster (there's one from the Howtocreate site that's oft-quoted.)
Real sites, especially popular, modern ones.
I think there might have been a day when Opera was fastest, and it still is when flipping "back" through pages you've just visited, but complex Web 2.0-ish sites of the day are its Achilles Heel, IMO, particularly if Javascript is employed.
Speaking of Web 2.0 sites, Opera doesn't work with a lot of them (e.g. Yahoo Mail Beta), or does work but isn't fully supported (e.g. Windows Live Mail).
In some cases, the folks at Opera have had to write and package elaborate workaround scripts just to get Opera working on a site at all (just recently Yahoo Mail Beta, where the performance is deathly because of this, and as soon as Yahoo changes anything on their end, it stops working again).
None of this is Opera's fault, which probably supports more standards than anyone else, but sites aren't particularly keen on standards. They write for browsers, not standards. And browsers with (at best) a 1% marketshare don't reach a very high level of interest.
Case in point: eBay just announced that they're concentrating on IE, Firefox, and Safari, and the rest of the browsers will be YMMV from this point forward. Opera will no longer have "advanced functionality" on eBay.
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200610.shtml#2006-...
Anyway, I like the interface. A lot of screen is reserved for the web page thanks to the smaller interface at the top. I like the way the tabs work and the quick-tabs especially won my affection.
Being able to create your own search engine entries with a link is great too, as opposed to Firefox's requirement to create/edit text files.
It loads quicker than Firefox too, though with MS having access to hidden APIs that Mozilla don't, this is to be expected.
IE7 is a huge improvement over IE6 and I'd love to use it, but at the back of my mind there's always the security issue taking me back to Firefox - IE has simply had too many security problems for me to be comfortable using it for my online banking etc.
This time FF beats IE really bad.
http://www.techtoolblog.com/archives/ie-7-nativ...
after 10 minutes of looking through email, I logged out and attempted to close IE7 down.
I was asked if I wanted to close tabs. Clicked yes.
I then got told, IE 7 has encountered a problem and must be shut down and I was then asked if I I'd like to submit info to MS.
In order words IE7 crashed! On my second use. Pretty Poor.
Otherwise its grand and a huge improvement.
I always hated how opening up a new (blank) window would cause IE6 to open with the same content you were viewing.
So you had to windows showingthe same thing. This made no sense to me.
Verdict:
I am sticking with Firefox.
using Opera 9 as it more user friendly.....
And I have to say the integrated spell check is awesome.
Only bad thing is: there are still websites not working properly with FF :(
If you are a Firefox fan you might want to integrate it into your Windows installation CD.
Integrate Firefox into your Windows installation CD:
http://addons.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/firefox-...
The ultimate dream of every Firefox fan:
have Firefox installed since the first boot of Windows :)
Also, like pointed out the default is to check the site against phishing.
And, what are people saying ? Tabs not intuitive, they way more intuitive in IE7 than in Firefox.
Stop talking bs.
But IE7 is very nice in Vista. It's my main browser in Vista.
Thank you.
I also used FF 1.x and IE6 once upon a time. Back then FF 1.x was better.
My opinion, for the present try out IE7, bother with FF2 after you get tired of IE7. [Which I guess, is not happening anytime soon.]
I use firefox and sometimes open many tabs while browsing, which makes it slow, and that is understandable. After ie7 was update from beta thru microsoft update I thought of giving it a try and it to my surprise it seemed faster. To compare properly I opened firefox and ie side by side. Opened same sites and browsed to same pages on both and this time firefox was faster. Puzzeled, I opened up task manager to see what's going on. Firefox seems to take lot more cpu cycles. I disabled all the add ons in both browsers and restarted to do an accurate test. Firefox does take about 70% more cpu cycles than ie7 when browsing the same sites/pages. And that is why firefox seemingly runs faster side-by-side with ie7 but when running separately ie7 is faster. E.g. if something takes 11 secs in firefox and 10 in ie, the same thing takes 12 secs in firefox when both browsers are running and 13 in ie, apparently because firefox tries to consume more resources and leaves rest for other apps including ie.
As I said before I am a firefox user and still am after this test (for pop-ups and security). Please do the test yourself and let everybody know.
No problems at all with IE7.
This may be caused by Ad Muncher, rather than the browser though.
Interesting, considering the affiliation between Google and Firefox.
i don't know the reason for this.
do u no?
http://www.teekoo.com/freebsd/chart.html
Firefox will hang with 300-500 bars, Opera, which claims to be the fastest, drag with 1500 bars,
IE, can do 5000 bars with no problem!
Try it!
http://reliancepc.com/ReliancePC/Tips/IE7tuning...
Firefox takes about 1 sec to finish it, while IE takes over a minute.
function testing(){
}
function buttonClick(){
var longString = "";
for (var i = 0; i < 100000; i++){
if (i%100 == 0){
longString += "\n";
}
longString += i;
}
alert(longString);
}
I've got IE6, and have now had Firefox 2.0.0.12 for about two weeks. IE6 continues to load pages faster for me than does Firefox, though I've noticed that Firefox has improved steadily over time, so I think the day will come. People can hem and haw and all of that, claiming I must be doing something wrong, but this is simply my experience.