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The functionality can be created in a snap on Facebook.
Drew: you sound like those Microsoft engineers who used to tell me that they could build Facebook or Digg in a week. Bullshit. Yelp stickers are on businesses all over town. They are also all over Google, which is how Maryam found that Yelp had doctor reviews. Facebook can't gain that territory easily. It's easier to buy those.
Well done!
Restaurant recommendations (and other things now) would be rampant into the news feeds (hopefully in some un-annoying way). And businesses would have to pay FB for advanced pages and functionality (possibly promotions and location-based advertising models as well). Of course, as the mobile web takes even further shape, location based services like Yelp are going to be huge.
Therefore, the identities of the advertising originators and the marjeting "propagaters" eventually become secondary in importance to the quality product or service.
Facebook and Twitter are current pop culture fads whose long-term survivability depends solely on their situational awareness. They must adapt quickly and effectively to rapidly changing technology and an oft fickle cyber-culture.
Remember Microsoft had originally planned Sidewalk for location-centric services while they were building Expedia - it was a bit more local event oriented, but location-centric services linked with travel transactions is a huge segment that can help monitize all those users.
Thanks to you, Robert, their other rating services are getting some well-deserved publicity, but they also need to do some work to rebrand themselves.
Our customers are worldwide and relatively fanatical in their loyalty. I find it amazing how much positive press we get that isn't orchestrated.
When we moved to our new location, none of our reviews followed which is frustrating but I can accept. Unfortunately going live at the new address coincided with some technical issues that resulted in two poor reviews (which we deserved). Things eventually righted themselves and positive reviews followed leaving us with a respectable score.
Last week I checked our page and all but one positive review were removed. Their FAQ says it can happen and you have to live with it. Doesn't exactly leave me with a good taste in my mouth form my business perspective but it undermines my faith as a user as well. As such, I don't think I would consider them for advertising dollars moving forward.
Going to stick my neck out and provide the url to our Yelp page despite how poorly we fare.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/tiny-prints-mountain-vi...
Here's our old location page which no longer shows up in their search:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/tiny-prints-mountain-view
I know we have a very good overall reputation if all reviews were displayed.
Do I take down the sticker I mention above if I'm the only one who knows it?
Curious to know if anyone feels that I'm out of line with my frustration.
I think the idea that Facebook should integrate business recommendations through the social graph is definitely the next step for Facebook. Figuring out how to involve business (ie. how to better integrate advertisement capabilities) into this huge environment of people and their friends is something that has to be one the top of their priority list. I am not so sure how they draw the line between offering a full-scale review site for businesses and how to use that traffic for revenue. More ads is too lame. Featured results is intrusive and unfair. Some peaceful balance is the way to go I guess.
With the enormous user base that Facebook has, I don't see why they need to really buy Yelp anyways. First, the restaurant reviews on Yelp are getting old. I actually think starting from scratch is just a much better way to go and unfortunately for Yelp, Facebook could push a review site, integrate it into everything, and Yelp would go away in no time.
Having reviews linked socially is great though. I don't really have a vision though how Facebook would integrate a Yelp feature set that would make it more like a Facebook feature and less like just any old Facebook app.
The wisdom of the crowds is not, results in a mish-mash of fan boys vs. malcontents. Like, don't like, like, don't like, in some endless loop, and then add in all the, fakery gossip, slander and mush. Spare me. Get some real professionals, not YouTube/Digg commenters, I don't want to trust my dining experience to potty-mouthed teenagers and loud-mouth New Yorker types. Bring on the REAL experts, please. I'll stick with Zagat and Fodors, all the info I need, concise, convenient and well-written, with REAL authority.
"AUTHORITY." - "PROFESSIONAL." - "EXPERT."
Boooo...
People that actually believe that they inherently embody any of the above characteristics, are usually very annoying people. People inwhich many of us common folk can't stand to be around for too long, much less tolerate their obnoxious, superior (i.e. yuppie scum bags that are usually getting "paid to praise".)
I for one happen to cherish the loud-mouth New Yorker's and punkass teenager's raw emotion opinions. After all, they're two of the most honest personality types left on our planet.
So you don't like Yelp - don't use it. Better yet, go Yelp about Yelp...
http://www.yelp.com/biz/yelp-san-francisco
http://twitter.com/spryka
I'll keep reading.
While it is true that Microblogs and Social Networks like Twitter and Facebook are popular tools
for people to connect they have thus far not been very strong in search.
This is why to date social networks have not been very successful in there ad efforts compared to search engines like Google.
I think the reason for this is that the main objective for most advertising spend is to achieve two things:
1) Attract new customers.
2) Retain existing customers.
Social Networks and Microblogs primary use is to exchange messages between people (both actual and more importantly perceived) and as such do not generally have an intent to successfully partner with an advertisement.
This means that as it stands they will never be as good as search engines for attracting new customers.
Microblogs and Social Networks are however very good for communication and therefore excellent tools for retaining existing customers. This area is where search engines are not very strong.
The solution appears to be a hybrid Search & Social service.
You Might want to take a look at YouPage.com where we are trying to do just that.
Any feedback more than welcome.
YouPage Ltd
Real-Time Local Search
I'm sure Facebook folks are thinking about this; I look forward to seeing their first attempt at a solution.
(bad Scoble for encouraging this :) )
However, combine it with facebook and you can now see who of your friends have rated a business and can double check that rating.
The more popular and influential yelp becomes the more people will try to game it, just like some publishers and manufacturers (like Belkin) do on Amazon.
"In the four months the site has been testing Facebook Connect, 94 percent of reviewers have published their reviews to Facebook, where an average of 40 people see them and 70 percent click back to Citysearch. That has translated into new members: daily registrations on Citysearch have tripled."
--NY Times
Read more here: http://weeklydig.com/%5Bcatpath%5D/200903/they-...
I'm not going to use it again. It's not a "true" social review network.
There is market space there for somebody who wants to write the real thing.
A post on the importance of these business services, echoing Scoble's comments: http://4tm-services.com/2009/03/27/yelp-and-qype/
You do need to read user comments with a critical eye, but the insights they bring are far more relevant to most people than a review, taken on a single visit, possibly two years ago, by a so-called professional.
You've just helped me further conceptualize my business. Thanks!!
I develop K-12 curriculum. I've typically worked with major publishers like Scholastic. But, now I want to do consulting work for Web 2.0 companies. I'm going to help these companies get on the K-12 social graph. Just think about the benefits of getting on this graph: The market is huge and highly influential. Get students hooked on your product now and they'll want to stay on your product later, as long as it continues to meet their purposes.
I haven't been to Yelp. But, I'm going to go and check it out. But, I'm not sure that Yelp will help me that much. After all, I'm not a bar.
I'm glad you're continuing to think about the way that Facebook, Twitter and other social platforms can monetize all of that traffic and interactions. This struck me as a particularly useful metaphor:
"Go back and look at the phone books that we all used to use before the Internet came about. In my house we used to get two books: one that was white, which had listings for people, and one that was yellow, which had listings for businesses. When you needed a ___ you’d look in the yellow pages and the one with the best looking ad got our business.
Now, let’s go back to Facebook. What’s the equivalent of the “best looking ad?” The business who has the best reviews."
You nail it. The social proof of good or bad reviews, customer experience and rating systems based on the collective "wisdom of the crowds" has been one of the most powerful uses for the Internet throughout its history. The tools are much more advanced now, of course, but we could see it back in the early days with IMDB.com & Amazon's book reviews. Now everything and everyone can be reviewed and rated on FB, Twitter and LinkedIn.
And, just as MA Bell was a gatekeeper for local businesses, now Yelp, Facebook and other platforms can manipulate or edit reviews they deem unacceptable to the community, just as you can edit your comments here if you wish -- though you generally do not, I think, because of your long experience online in forums.
The issue with Yelp may be in its role as both gatekeeper and private for-profit entity. I suspect you may have read the piece in San Francisco's East Bay Express entitled "Yelp and Extortion 2.0." A local alternative paper here in Boston just ran this:
http://weeklydig.com/%5Bcatpath%5D/200903/they-...
In both articles, the issue of "church & state" in editorial/community and sales/advertising was repeatedly raised. Of course, Yelp has denied any such practice repeatedly.
I'm not convinced that either platform is the right answer for communities to use for rating systems of businesses or professional services, much less essential services like healthcare, education and emergency services -- some kind of third-party without a profit motive would be preferable. The leverage that these private entities hold over a business through elevating negative reviews or removing positive ones is substantial.
I'm glad you're spending time blogging again, Robert, despite the allure of Friendfeed, Twitter and other online forums.
I could never understand why Facebook should buy Twitter - it never made any sense to me. Adding a true blogging platform to FB - YESSS! but Twitter? They got 90% of that functionality as you say, already.
As for Yelp, from an european perspective, it reminds me of Craigslist: wildly popular in California, but almost unknown everywhere else (I know, I know, I'm being superficial...)
True, they got stickers on businesses, but Facebook has 160+ million users across the world, just waiting to be "leveraged" somehow, so yes, replicating the functionality seems faster/cheaper than buying a (large) niche user base.
Honestly, Yelp + MySpace makes a lot more sense. They already have many businesses with pages and the entire experience is much more aligned around content as opposed to communication.
This is where twitter shines - its inclusive. Facebook is exclusive. Both have their place but when I'm looking for a review of a new movie/car/etc and my friends don't have a clue, I'll be looking somewhere other than Facebook.
This thread has given me some great ideas to incorporate into our go-forward strategy- thx for that!!! One of our big challenges has been financing the growth of our platform and brand awareness. It's a huge focus right now-
Best to all
Yelp = Some seriously helpful and well-written content + some quasi-thought out content + some completely insipid and/or mindless blabber.
I'm still going to give Yelp the win on this, and - since I use both (as do a good deal of my cohorts) - I'd be perfectly down with having them combined.
~a
Who said anything about me? I was saying I like Zagat and Fodors over Yelp. Expert opinions, well-written and to the point, without all the massive noise. Just my preference, if you'd rather the loud-mouthed slandering New Yakkers, so be it.
And I thought stabbing people who put their hand out, casing your employer (Microsoft sucks etc.) makes you not a shrill and more authentically human, or some social media blather like that. My full modus operandi is a complex and multilayered thing, many masters to serve, more akin to strategy, though I have always loved "strategery", as when you really think about it, it's so much deeper than plain old boring "strategy", it kind of conveys having a strategy about a strategy. A goof that was brilliant, imho. :)
I've been thinking for sometime now how Twitter is about authentic, personal interactions, which I simply do not see fitting into this new 'Facebook-page-like' model that's being suggested.
Comparing to the two phone books is an excellent analogy which hits the nail on the head. Lets go back to basic branding - clarity, niche, specifics. A monetized, business focussed twitter is mixing the wrong markets.
http://www.openyet.com
socializing business hours.....yum.
I am not much of a Facebooker, I use it as a lead funnel, not so much as a marketing medium.
But is there or do you see soon a way of advertising decently? I really hate Facebook's ad system. You can be chugging along fine and Facebook will come back and kill your ad for some TOS full of BS like "Your grammar was incorrect" and you are reminded of AdWords of days past.
Worse yet advertise a product they hate like my site about Google Friend Connect. I gave up on that one.
But even when you do get an ad to run long term, I do not see conversions that are worth a darn. My ads are the same ones that do well in AdWords now. I am not a copywriter, but I can get it right.
Anybody got any suggestions?
So yelp has all the business and facebook has all the customers. Almost seems to easy.
Who do you ask when you need trusted and reliable recommendations, say for a plumber or accountant? In many cases, you will ask your friends or people that you know at work or socially - i.e. you will ask the people on your social graph. This may even extend beyond "one-level" of the graph - e.g. your co-worker's friend who knows an awesome gardener.
We've developed a new service called Kelpp that builds on this idea and allows you to easily ask your Facebook friends for recommendations and tracks their responses. It also lets users define precisely the "things" they're looking for or want to review - so you can find the best places for "inexpensive vegetarian lunch" or "family-friendly italian restaurant".
Try it out at http://kelpp.com - no need to register, just use your Facebook account. We would love to hear feedback - still at the "alpha" stage of development and we have lots more ideas and features planned.
I am an ex Yellow Pages employee. I worked in this industry for over 20 years in many capacities. I now help businesses with their Yellow Page exit stratigies. There are ways to begin the transition from YP's to other forms of advertising. The industry works on fear of loss. You know you have had success in the past, and they depend on that to keep you as long as possible. I have the ability to work with all publishers across the US. Please call me at 513-519-4275 EST.
I am an ex Yellow Pages employee. I worked in this industry for over 20 years in many capacities. I now help businesses with their Yellow Page exit stratigies. There are ways to begin the transition from YP's to other forms of advertising. The industry works on fear of loss. You know you have had success in the past, and they depend on that to keep you as long as possible. I have the ability to work with all publishers across the US. Please call me at 513-519-4275 EST.
I have a feeling the guys at Twitter are going to be kicking themselves for losing out on that deal. I'll check out Yelp though, looks interesting.
Twitter is a mobile solution. You can Tweet all day long from your phone.
You do not need a computer or especially email.
Watch what your kids do, they are the future of how we will use the Internet.
They don't read email. They send text. They could not live without their phone.
Twitter is an extension of their phone. I saw a table of 10 twenty somethings, 5 couples out to dinner the other night. They did not say one word to each other while waiting for their dinners. All ten of them had their phones out sending texts and did not interact at all with their dinner companions. NOT AT ALL for like 20 minutes on a Friday night.
Facebook is browser based, you have to be at a computer, it is not a phone in your pocket that is an extension of yourself.
Twitter is light, portable and above all TEXT based.
We don't get this because we are marketers, we want to send URLs in Twitter to get traffic to our sites. These kids just want to chat and above all flirt with the opposite sex.
Facebook is last years technology, kids don't even answer their phones, they don't leave voicemails. They TEXT. That is how they communicate, fast and quietly.
That is why Google Friend Connect is going to be such a success, everything you can do on your machine is mobile and has a phone based solution.
Even if you use a mobile Facebook app you still need email to admin it and get alerts. Guess what these kids are using? Gmail!
It is not us old people that will make Google Friend Connect a success, it is adoption by your kids that will make Facebook the MySpace of the next few years.
If Google does not buy Twitter soon, I am going to be wrong majorly for the second time. It was me, Chris Lang that was one of the biggest "Google will buy Digg" poster boys there was.
They came close, I would say Twitter is next. Or maybe not, I have been wrong once before. But just once. LOL
FB has the membership base and Yelp has the businesses and the geographic APIs...great synergy if done right.
I also agree that FB buying Twitter would have been a mistake...Twitter is a great service, but I think it is cloneable, or people will eventually get the same bang from Twitter and a number of other similar services. And how will Twitter monetize their service?
It should be an interesting future in the social networking world.