Awesome, looks like my weekend project. Good to see MSFT doing this. Any word on whether this will work with Boot Camp? Thanks Robert.
Sincerely, Jason L. Baptiste CEO of Viral Ventures, parent company of uGather.com
Tony Jones
· 3 years ago
Personally I think you have the balance right, the primary reason I'm a avid reader is because of the Microsoft content.
Nicole Simon
· 3 years ago
Don't be silly. I don't read you because you write about stuff non MS only, but because of news with your voice from your perspective as someone at MS. :)
Mike
· 3 years ago
I think it's pretty good that you write more about microsoft, after all they are still an important company, not as important as google though ;)
Tor Erik
· 3 years ago
Is it legal/ok to download this file from other places? It would save MS bandwidth, and reach more users. Right now...
~ We are currently experiencing a high level of demand and cannot process your request at this time.
Please check back later for availability. We apologize for any inconvenience. ~
.. seems to be the word of the day.
Chris McElligott
· 3 years ago
The x64 version apprently is downloading fine, but it's awesome to see Microsoft do this. Can't wait to try it out :)
Richard
· 3 years ago
Robert, I've been reading a lot of people complaining that MS haven't used BitTorrent as an option to get hold of a 3GB+ download. Any thoughts why?
Gary Thompson
· 3 years ago
With the size bieng over 4 gigs, I imagine it will take at least a week for their download servers to calm down to a point where it can be downloaded. It took what, 3 days for Office 2007 to be available and that was only a little over 400.
It'll be nice to finally check it out.
Kent
· 3 years ago
Why would anyone bother downloading a not ready for prime time OS? It's a pointless waste of time.
If you want to see the latest features of Vista, just go to your local Apple store and try a Mac.
Seriously, talk about what is here now and forget about what is coming. That is why I switched. From now on, in my life it's only what is available TODAY.
Last year, this year and next year the Mac and OS X is superior. I'll check back in 2008 when I am ready to upgrade.
Disclaimer: I am a former .NET developer and MS apologist. I appreciate what MS has done in the past and they make a lot of great stuff with a lot of smart people.
But right now, for me, my family most of my friends the Mac is the way to go, with or without Boot Camp.
And I do enjoy your blog because of the overall tech theme and the MS content.
Coach Mack
· 3 years ago
I Just started blogging a few months ago, and I realized that I liked talking about some of my personal issues.
I'd say I talk about gymnastics and Cheer Tumbling 55% of the time. I was worried that I was going to turn off readers by blogging personal events. I recently blogged about my car's passenger seat window being shattered at work.
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Kent: I just went and looked at a Mac. I didn't realize that a Mac can be used as a Tablet PC. I didn't realize that there's one available with TV tuners built in without adding anything else on. I didn't realize that you can build your own Mac out of the components you want to use, not the ones that Steve Jobs wants you to use. I didn't realize all of that!
Jonathan Dish
· 3 years ago
I think it’s pretty good that you write more about microsoft, after all they are still an important company, not as important as google though
Sarah Tinley
· 3 years ago
The x64 versions apprently is downloading fine, but it’s awesome to see Microsoft do this. Can’t wait to try it out
Sterling Camden
· 3 years ago
One of the draws to your blog is that you're a Microsoft insider. Don't be ashamed to post about that, nor about anything else!
Ross
· 3 years ago
It looks like another feature has been removed ... hopefully it is the last one.
Personally, I have no use for a tablet, don't watch TV and the components in my iMac are quite good and way above the typical eMachine quality.
I tend to buy slightly upscale computers - my last one was a souped up Dell and I didn't upgrade that one either.
But you're right, I could have upgraded the Dell if I wanted to. On the iMac I can only upgrade the RAM and hard drive.
I like your points though and I wish MS spent more time pumping up what is there (and great) like Tablets, Media Center and the Xbox. Enough already with Vista and Office 2007,8,9 - they don't exist yet.
And for God's sake, get rid of the Dinosaur ads, they only prove my point about MS being old news.
And while I exist in the RDF of Jobs, the man has style, taste and the ability to drive a team to deliver and demands excellence. Traits that MiniMfst probably yearns for MS in a big way.
If and when Vista ever ships (2007? 2008?), I will compare it to OS X - who knows maybe it will be even better, but right now OS x is a lot better than XP.
A. Lot. Better.
Phil
· 3 years ago
Kent is correct. Way, way, better. If the best thing about your computer is that it has a TV tuner...well oooooh. I just found that kinda hilarious coming from someone who just bought a huge flatscreen television!
Kent, dude, get Firefox and block those ads if they bug you so much...I don't even know what you're talking about!
Molly C
· 3 years ago
I think it’s pretty good that you write more about microsoft, after all they are still an important company, not as important as google though :p
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
I have only one question for Microsoft: WHERE HAVE YOU HIDDEN THE UNINSTALL WINDOWS VISTA UPGRADE SHORTCUT???
I sincerely hope that the Vista upgrade can be uninstalled... I am still looking for the answer.
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
I have just read on the Vista newsgroups that the "upgrade" cannot be uninstalled.
If it's true, and I'll have to restore Windows XP by wiping out my Thinkpad, for the first time in my life I will say: FUCK YOU, Microsoft! There was no warning that the "upgrade" from Windows XP cannot be uninstalled.
Ross
· 3 years ago
Ervin, I guessed you missed the bright red text on the Vista page that said ..
Note: This is beta code and should not be used in a production environment or on a main machine in the home.
Rod Trent
· 3 years ago
hehe...you mean Neowin and about 1,000 other bloggers are reporting -- most of which are Microsoft folks.
Gordon Doane
· 3 years ago
This should have been released as a torrent. A torrent is a much more efficient means to distribute software! A license key could be obtained as part of the installation process.
Ryan B
· 3 years ago
Darn you Robert. How dare you write about your job! I can always write how the guy next to me replaced 4 motherboards today, and 5 case fans.
Garrett Fitzgerald
· 3 years ago
Phil @ 21: nice point. :-)
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
I apologize for losing my temper. The damage Vista produced to my laptop was just a bunch of personalized Windows XP settings, since my T60 is only a few days old. However, the average Joe will lose much more. It's completely naive of MS to think that only the experts will try out this beta, and only on dedicated test machines/partitions.
It was my mistake. Not having done an OS upgrade for the last 5 years or so, I forgot that it's one way only. And I was too excited to try out the beta. I guess, I gave MS too much credit. Anyway, Microsoft "screwed up" (can't find a better word) royally the public beta, from my point of view. I, for one, won't ever try out Microsoft beta software, even if it's public. It's way too buggy and unfinished, even for somebody like me, who breathes desktop Windows.
By putting out a public beta with so many problems (blue screens, missing drivers - even for popular notebooks, impossibility of uninstalling, the many annoying dialogs asking for permission etc.), I am sure Microsoft will alienate a lot of people who would have bought Vista otherwise. Myself, I will think twice before shelling out the money; the public beta came with much more problems than I expected. Microsoft should think twice before offering problematic software for public preview; it might do much more bad than good to its image.
Again, Robert, I apologize for the comment above. Not for the contents, but for the "packaging".
Farhan
· 3 years ago
Ervin,
1. It's a Beta. There are bound to be problems. That's why it's there.
2. If you "upgraded" your XP installation, you overwrote a lot of system files. That's why there is a "custom" installation option, where you can choose to install on a separate partition and Vista will automatically set your computer up for dual-boot.
3. A lot of machine specific drivers are added by OEMs like Lenovo and Dell in their factories. Vista supports over 12,000 devices inbox - but there are bound to be ones that you would need to go out and get (Windows Update does a wonderful job of that).
4. If you get a BSOD, take the time to file a bug with Microsoft. That's what the public beta is for - so that MS can improve the product.
Diego Barros
· 3 years ago
Have you seen the episode of the Simpsons where they are watching Star Trek 12? Someone on ST12 team warns everyone about the oncoming Klingons, and Kirk responds, putting with hand to his face, "Again with the Klingons!"... well "Again with the Tablet PC!".
Funny how you didn't mention the world beating UMPC in that list. Ahh what a beauty that is. :)
Vista, OS X and Linux will soon be completely irrelivant. Once Google announce the Google OS, nothing else will matter. Everyone loves Google. Just ask Mike Arrington. :)
Rod Trent
· 3 years ago
Ervin J -- does that mean you are still on Windows 3.11? :)
Wild Bill
· 3 years ago
I have to question why MS is bothering to swamp the internet with 1gig downloads of an operating system in beta state, and as Gartner suggests is more than a year away.
Even if it did ship this year - which even Balmer in his "own world" way is finding increasingly hard to state - who in their right mind would put it into a production environment ot commit a mass of personal data to it ? Just to lose it all ? If its rushed out - as Visual Studio 2005 was - it'll just result in yet more egg-on-face. So we're 12-18 months out from large scale adoption of this thing AT BEST.
mmm.
Of all the features that are being ripped out of Vista - PC Synch was canned today - surely the DRM features are the least popular with customers. Why not ditch that and tell the RIAA to get lost ?
That might actually *raise* folks opinions of MS ?
I installed Fedora Core 5 the other week, and I didnt have to type in a 25-digit alphanumeric sequence, nor did it "call home" unless I let it. Its a pleasing interface, included a browser - Firefox - and of course included OpenOffice. It worked first time with a bizarre set of hardware, auto-updated itself (if I wanted it to), and allowed me to browse windows file shares - as well as provide a file server capability to other windows machines in the (active directory) network. Call this entire package "Small Business Server" and "Office", and you start to see its capability. (Oh, and I downloaded it using Bittorrent).
Total price: Nothing. Zip. Zilch.
All perfectly legal. No spyware, no viruses, no popups, no trojans.
Why does letting people see a beta copy of Vista possibly help MS ? Why all the hype about product thats not ready to see the light of day yet ?
---* Bill
As an afterthought. Given the current frenzy that MS are whipping themselves into over software more than a year out, how on earth are you going to react when something actually gets shipped ? I have this "max-headroom" mental picture of folks heads exploding. Now thats a pleasing thought.
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
Farhan,
1. I know that. But most of the people who download it won't. Do not forget that it's a public beta. While I can accept minor crashes, getting a BSOD just because I ejected a DVD seems major (and I only played with Vista about 10 minutes). Microsoft should have kept this beta private. Same goes for Office 2007 beta 2, which has even bigger problems.
2. The problem with MS is that different products offer different behaviors at upgrade. That's confusing. Except for the operating systems, you can uninstall/restore 90+% of the service packs, patches, clean installs or upgrades. I simply cannot understand why a 4 GB OS (especially a beta) cannot sacrifice another 1 GB for uninstallation purposes, like service packs do. It should be a no brainer - just the opposite of what setup.exe does.
3. Because Lenovo T60 is one of the most popular business notebooks selling today, Microsoft should work proactively with Lenovo to include drivers in Vista. If one cannot install Vista on a ThinkPad, what can one expect for a much less popular notebook? Running Vista right now seems like a downgrade from Windows XP, the first OS that felt truly PnP. (I am a consumer, and I don't give **** that MS had the stupid idea of changing the driver model again.)
4. If Microsoft wants me to file a bug report, it should make it easier and more rewarding. Why should I waste my time writing a detailed bug report for a commercial product?
Christopher Coulter
· 3 years ago
What a clunker, nearly a year away for but a bad feature-stripped lameish clone of OSX, and now P2P is gone. What more?
Jobs, if he played his cards right and went controlled-commodity could have ruled the world. Now another 2 years before Vista really takes hold and that's thought of as progress. Case study on the failure of free enterprise...by all practical rights, someone should have developed a better Desktop OS and Office Suite mousetrap faster, with great marketshare. LAMP is no savior, and OSX is too freaky cultic. And the Web 2.0 and HTML dot.commies are complete kooks. And customer satifaction with Salesforce-like apps is at a new low, nearly as hated as Vonnage.
BSOD just because I ejected a DVD
You too, eh? Only it's a freeze, I never get to the BSOD/RSOD. My Sony external is the "problem", and for the life of me it won't reco my 160 gig Seagate external, tho XP will just fine. And it won't find my LG phone either, can't Bitpim on Vista. And for all the driver support it somehow lacks my color laser and old drivers make photos into abstract works of "art". And I get random freezes on printing to PDFs. Amazingly buggy, amazingly. And that IE is a whole problem unto itself, Opera works a charm however. On the plus side, UI is better and it flows, smoother, has potential, but then 10 mins later gotta reboot again. Frakking (Battlestar lingo there) frustrating...this puppy's getting NUKED.
Why should I waste my time writing a detailed bug report for a commercial product?
You will feel warm and fuzzy inside and make blogger Evangelists all happy. And get to improve the process, blah blah blah. (See the Scoble script for the last months of 2003 into mid 2004).
And as for their eternal 'woe is us' distro problems, maybe they should look into Bitorrent, yes? Heck, even Warner is now.
RL
· 3 years ago
Ervin, I am still waiting on my Vista download, so I am not sure this solution will help you. If you did not delete your system restore partition you should be able to press the blue IBM ACCESS button and do a system restore and recover WIN XP. (Make sure to backup all of your files and software installations. I work on IBM and Lenovo machines all the time as well as HP/COMPAQ and DELL. IBM is one of the worst PC companies out there right now in my opinion. They rarely use totally PNP hardware and their drivers they supply are not the best in the world. I have a year old thinkpad that has serious graphics driver issues and the driver that they supplied to MS is buggy as heck. That was their design issue. One thing that you have to realize is when you buy an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) machine is that you are not buying a Windows product. Sure it says MS XP, but every OEM modifies Windows to one degree or another to make it their "own". IBM is one of the worst. Why have two power meters and two update systems? At worst it confuses the average user. In my department we always take any OEM machine we get and slap a clean Windows install to avoid some of these issues. Yes, sometimes we play driver hunt, but its a lot less of a problem than some of the modifications that the OEM's throw on them. HP has had a long time history of a partnership with MS and it shows when you do a clean install on one of their machines. Yes they do add extra software, but they engineer their hardware to keep alot of frustrations down when you do a clean install. I assume that to be true of Vista as well, and I will be able to report further on that after this weekend. I wish you luck in your recovery.
RL
· 3 years ago
(One other thing, I may be back this weekend after my install ranting like the rest of us here....so don't go screaming hypocrite when I do.)
Christopher Coulter
· 3 years ago
Ok, done, f-discoed. From here on out, I think I will wait for Gold. Wake me up when it's ready, what 1Q 2009?
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
RL, thank you for your kindness.
I know about the Thinkvantage button, plus I have a set of recovery CDs. I am just not in the mood of spending another 3-4 hours tweaking XP to my taste, right now. I will probably play with it tomorrow.
I won't have lost any data, just settings. No big deal, just some wasted time and nerves. Plus I still cannot believe how unimpressive the whole Vista experience has been, for me.
(Note: windowsvista.com is registered to Microsoft Corporation, so these links are probably legit.)
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
RL,
HP has outstanding driver/software support, from my experience. I once had an HP external CD-Writer, "made for" Windows 9x/NT 4, and HP published Windows 2000 and XP drivers 4 years after I had bought it. For free. Now that's what I call tech support!
I don't like IBM as a company, but their/Lenovo's ThinkPad line is still impressive. Plus their customer service, too.
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
"Windows is resuming from sleep...", then REFERENCE_BY_POINTER BSOD. Oh, MS, you are trying my faith!
I have run Windows Update. Got the Intel 945GM drivers. But still my video adapter is not recognized and I still have Vista Basic. Oh, well!
I hope Lenovo will release some Vista drivers for the T60. From what I have seen, except for the bugs, Vista is clearly a step in the right direction, a better XP. I am just not sure I will buy upgrades to it, especially if I won't be able to try it out beforehand. From the driver/PnP point of view, Vista seems still immature, and that's unacceptable in 2006.
Cody
· 3 years ago
Where the fuck is the torrent? Oh, that's right, Microsoft employees are stupid, they don't know what a "torrent" is.
I'm supprised they actually host files on their servers. With their knowledge, they'd rather split the ISO into 2,000+ pieces for a damn floppy disk. Ugh.
I don't have high hopes for Vista, if Microsoft isn't smart enough to create a torrent for a 3.2GB ISO file.
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
OK, now it's working. After selecting the optional updates in Windows Update, everything is working. No more BSODs or crashes. Now it's fun. I guess I'll keep playing with Vista.
Sorry for the harsh words, Windows team! It was clearly my fault, too.
If the reader finds that Vista is not working properly, I suggest her to be more patient than I was. It might be an OEM problem. The more I play with Vista (now that I have the proper video drivers) the more it seems worth the extra mile (of sweat). Don't let my previous posts scare you. Enjoy!
Robert Scoble
· 3 years ago
Cody: there's a reason we don't put things on Torrents: we want control of where you get your software from. If you get it from one of our servers at least you know it hasn't been tampered with. But if you get it from a Torrent how do you know you're getting an official Microsoft compile? You don't. And even if YOU did cause you're a geek and know how to verify that kind of thing, I guarantee you there are rafts of people out there who won't have the skills to tell whether it is a real version or not. We can't deal with that kind of risk.
tektrekgamer
· 3 years ago
I have tracked back to this article on my blog Robert. I don't liek the fact you have to actually pay for Vista beta to have it sent to you. You would think one of the richest companies in the world could provide loyal customers with a tryout of their next product for nothing without downloading a DVD image for 9 hours.
Don't get me wrong I am really pleased that they have released a beta, I just think it needs polishing. Thanks for reporting it. -Sebastian at SEBRT.com
Scoble, repeat after me... "Tablets are a niche market...." And 'The real world doens't want to watch TV on their computers". That's the best you can to do counter the MAC? It's not a Tablet? By your own admission MS has only sold 250K tablets a year since launch. Yea, that looks like a GREAT market to get into. How could Jobs have been so stupid?
Darcey
· 3 years ago
With every single blog that even mentions vista you can always guarantee their will be dozens of apple fanboys in the comments crying how OS X is so superior. Do you really think that if you continuously bombard the WWW with your endless childish rants you will eventually convince every windows user to switch? Do you really think windows users are just dumb animals who can’t think for themselves and have all been brainwashed by the evil m$ into using windows? (you probably do actually) Has it ever occurred to you that some people may actually prefer to use windows, and may not share the same blind love that you have for apple?
I know it must be painful for you all to know that OS X is so vastly superior in every single way, yet it’s still not had any real impact on the massive market share of windows. But why don’t you just sit back and enjoy the smug feeling you get from knowing that you are smarter than 94% of the computer users out there? There really is no need to keep repeating the same old lines over and over and over again, unless you’re trying to bore us all into submission.
Despite what many mac/linux zealots may believe, no one is forced to use windows, I do because I choose to, simple as that. If I thought another OS would suit my needs better I would use it, but I don’t see any advantage what so ever in switching. If I want to make windows look pretty I would just change my theme and make it look how I like. I very rarely have issues with windows, no stability problems, no viruses, worms, spyware problems at all. So why is it that every a time a mac user jumps onto windows machine they claim to get infected with dozens of virus’s and suffer endless blue screens in just a couple of hours? What do you do that causes you so many problems? Or are you just telling a few lies to convince yourself your OS really is superior.
I’m not anti-apple, i’ve owned macs all my life and think OS X is a really nice OS I just hate the fanboys that infect just about every forum and blog on the web. A polite request from me GO AWAY! and stop boring everyone with your propaganda.
Big Eagle
· 3 years ago
I installed Vista on my Compaq Presario 2100. It has a AMD Processor 1.80GHZ and 448MB of Ram. The graphics device is a Radeon IGP 320M. Vista comes up 640 X 480 with 4 bit color. It does not allow any changes. I have looked for an update to the driver but apparently there is not one that supports Vista. Does anyone know of this?
therealestateceo
· 3 years ago
I attended a party last night at the Ritz Carlton celebrating the development 288 south beach style condos (60 percent glass, 40 percent white) on Revere Beach ,MA. The prices ranges from 500k and 1 million plus with your car insurance going up the same. The developer was also trying to sell me a 50,000 Honda civic but I was not interested. He had the right idea have no food and serve only one drink all vodka with a splash of blue fruit punch that would get you so drunk after your second one that you swear your in South Beach. The evening was capped off with me getting accused of stealing an extra towel. I can not blame them they thought this was Revere. […]
Pingback by What it’s like to start a real estate company online » Bad Idea — June 9, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
Cody
· 3 years ago
Scoble: It's called MD5 or SHA-1 hashes, dumbass. Geez.
James
· 3 years ago
If they wanted to, Micosoft could do what Blizzard Entertainment does with World of Warcraft: release torrents embeded in an official BitTorrent client. Not using it because "you can't control it" is bull. Don't want it being distributed by "MicrosofTorrent" anymore? Take down your main trackers and the thing won't surive a month.
Look up the World of Warcraft Open Beta client downloader if you don't believe me.
Farhan
· 3 years ago
Cody: Do you think an average Joe knows about MD5 or SHA-1? If you do, you are living in a dream world buddy.
Cody
· 3 years ago
Oh, and it's not hard to compare hashes. There are all kinds of applications out there where you can drag and drop the hash and the file and it'll compare.
It's not that hard to program, either, so someone at MS could whip up a nice, pretty app to do it. Hell, I wrote a UNIX shell script to calculate an MD5 sum using the MD5 command under the Korn Shell (ksh)
Who the hell downloads a 3.2GB ISO file of BETA software, so they can install it (most likely as a dual boot) next to Windows XP, so they can test out and debug the features of Vista? I don't think Average Joe is doing that.
And like I said, there are ways to make a nice, shiny, pretty, glossy, easy-as-hell application to compare hashes.
sherwood
· 3 years ago
is it also available on torrent? http download is too slow for me..
Thomas Purves
· 3 years ago
only 50%? heh, souds pretty reasonable to me. He does work for the company after all.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
Microsoft doesn't care if there are old versions of the ISO running around on June 1st, 2007. It's not like they'd actually do anything, or every one of the millions of burnt DVDs are going to vanish in a puff of sulfric smelling smoke.
I think a more significant issue is that Microsoft has been anti-torrent for a while now, and for good reason (they don't like the piracy implications).
I'm also willing to beat that a destructively altered Operating System could do just a bit more damage than a bad World of Warcraft patch, say fry a motherboard or a couple sticks of RAM as opposed to make a texture not load properly or a client crash.
Sure, you can prevent this sort of thing, if your user is sufficiently intelligent. You'd still get your ass sued if they were morons, though. (I've also heard rumors of a way to spoof an MD5 hash, but that's supposed to be impossible, so I'll leave it as a rumor for now)
As to Mac vs Windows... when Mac can sell me an operating system that can work on any computer I slap together (which, as you might guess, will be one that can be easily upgraded), operates a majority of the commercial software out there, and offers meaningful utility for the price. As it is, you can't legally run Mac OS X on anything outside around 20 total product lines, useful Mac-friendly software is harder to find than Linux-friendly ones, and a current "upgrade" of Mac OS X will set you back $130, not to mention the ~10-25% overprice in hardware costs.
So, yeah, I don't think the vast gaming or normal use population will be flying to the Mac side anytime soon.
If you're just interested in scooting around the web and ocassionally writing and drawing stuff (not printing it, unless you want to go nuts trying to get your intel-friendly printer driver to work), and don't mind paying for overpriced hardware, Mac's the way to go. Of course, you could skip the costs of Mac hardware and software and go Linux, get better results...
I'll stick with my Windows machine that, after half an hour of work, hasn't had a virus in the last year, and hasn't had hardware or software problems within six months.
Vista's feeling kinda "Bleh", though. Huge footprint, even for beta code, and a lot of things being changed without much in the way of actual "new" code. What the hell happened to a single, nice, compact "Display Properties", like you've been able to access off the desktop since '95? Or the File menu that was present in Windows 3.11?
Widgets and transparencies are nice, but they Mac-ware - lots of flavor, no real content, and take forever to disable manually. I'd really have liked a choice, early in the installation dialog, to get only "Classic Windows" or "Windows Aero".
IE7 sucks, although not as much as IE6. I'm still using Firefox, which runs faster in the same environment, and has more utility through extensions.
I'm liking most of the security changes, although letting UACs automatically for things like any program running from a CD might have been a good choice, if it could have been spoof-proof. My company will get Vista just for that aspect.
Gup badri
· 3 years ago
My attempt to download Vista Beta2. My machine timed out and now I can't download. I am being asked to purchase. My limit has been reached. Can you Help???
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
Check the e-mail account you gave to the Vista site - you should have two e-mails from Microsoft, each of which will provide direct links and your CD keys.
Kent
· 3 years ago
Whoa. Lots of hate.
But then, I helped it along. Ooops.
My main point was meant to be to focus on the here and now. Right now, MS does make an innovative and exciting product - the Tablet PC. Not for me, but it is very interesting. And OneNote should be installed on every Tablet by default, since it's the closest thing I can think of as a "killer app" for the Tablet PC.
Xbox 360 is here now and the whole Xbox Live thing is fantastic. Kudos.
MS has brought computing to hundreds of millions of people at low cost. Great. And maintaining backwards combatibilty (for the most part) is a massive, difficult and largely successful endeavour. Again, Kudos.
The Media center is a great idea, my brother has one and loves it. Talk about it more, most people I know aren't aware of it or what it can do.
And then there is Office, the big money maker. It works on both PCs and Macs, so pump it up, you could have 100% market share even if the PC vs. Mac landscape changes dramtically.
Finally, games, games games. Yes, you need to use Windows and a custom built PC to play all the latest and greatest games.
That is what is available today, shout it from the rooftops as they really are quite good.
As for myself, I am in the small niche that likes to listen to music, take digital photos, edit home video of my kid and burn a DVD for the Grandparents, make web sites for fun with Ruby on Rails (works on Windows too) and values my time. Of course I surf the web but I also create newsletters and Keynote presentations. I video conference with my in laws using the built in sotware and camera. And PhotoBooth is a blast.
I can't even begin to count the endless hours I've spent at family and friend's houses cleaning up their PCs. With all my overpriced Mac hardware and software it all just works together with drag and drop ease, never crashes and gets out of my way. If I were to calculate all my time saved, my Mac is a lot cheaper than my Dell.
As for this whole Vista download, this should be targeted at those MSDN deep dives or to MVPs, not the general public. It's confusing and will leave a bad taste for some.
dmad
· 3 years ago
@50. Actually, yes the MAJORITY is Windows users are "dumb". By dump I don't mean stupid or idiots. By dumb I mean the MAJORITY of Windows users probably didn't really care all the much what Windows as, only that they wanted a computer and all their friends' computers ran Windows and all the apps they wanted to run ran on Windows, and because Jobs chose to own the hardware on which the software is run, the choices for Windows are much more prominent. So, as for "forced" vs "choose", well ask the US Justice Department about that. Suffice it to say, techncially yes one has a choice, but for users in the real world, its like trying to buy anything but a Coke in a restaurant in Atlanta.
Now, I think users just want their computers to work. I'm sure many of us Windows users even have a plethora of stories about having to help our friends and neighbors set up or "fix" their computers and at some point having the mind be boggled by how long it takes to set up a Wintel machine vs a Mac. As for you not having stabiliy or config problems, while that may be true, I believe you are in the minority. MS doesn't own the hardware so they are more prone to stability issues.
Tim
· 3 years ago
Ooh, my favourite thing! Someone telling me a technical reason why something isn't possible, and my brain formulating a complete solution before I've even finished reading their sentence :-).
The no-torrent thing is super dumb. Make the first thing you download from Microsoft be a tiny validation application (100% guaranteed Microsoft code! Even digitally sign it if you want! Hell, make it available on Windows Update!)
Second, you download the Vista 'data' file (via http, akamai, bit-torrent - whatever - this is the big file, of course).
You run the validator, it asks you where the Vista data file is. It uses a secure cryptographic hash to validate that you have the correct data file. It then twiddles a couple of bytes (or, say, decrypts the first 2Mb of the file) to turn the data file into a valid ISO (for example).
If it works, you now have a guaranteed correct ISO file, no matter how/where you downloaded it.
(Aside: if a hacker can persuade someone to download and run the MS validator from their site instead of Microsoft's site, then they've already won anyway.)
As for those moaning about a public release - I'm a software developer, and have applied a couple of times for a preview of Vista, but have never heard anything back (Microsoft UK, though - SNAFU). So this is the only way I can try developing for Vista, so stop whining :-)
John C. Welch
· 3 years ago
Again, for all the people bitching about Apple's "high" prices...
when you show me that you spec out every.single.thing you buy based on *price alone*, i'll take that argument seriously.
You buy the tool that fits your needs. Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, doesn't matter. You buy the tool that fits your needs. If I have to run a large scale directory service and not lose my mind, Active Directory, hands down. Novell has a good system, but the toolset for Active Directory is simply much better.
If I need a cheap server, Linux.
If i want to put stuff out on a desktop that I just want to work, then Mac OS X with some Remote Desktop Client goodness to a WTS box for specific needs. That way, I have a safe, easily managed client that can give its users anything they need.
But the price thing, please. Same thing with the "Oh i can't build my own hardware and run OS X"
Good.
Because that means that driver problems are .00001 the size of Windows and Linux. It means that there are three major options for Video hardware. Intel, Nvidia and ATI. It means predictable hardware and environment.
For the what, 5% of the market that simply cannot run a box they didn't build themselve, enjoy Windows and Linux. Really.
But there's no point to doing this in large scale deployments, or even small to midsized ones. The money you save is eaten by the time you don't save so fast that it doesn't ever count.
However, don't assume the build your own box crowd is in the majority. There's no numbers to back that up. So using that as some kind of proof of the superiority of Windows is inane.
There are good reasons to buy a Mac, and the price differential just isn't as much as people so despareately want to believe.
RL
· 3 years ago
Ok the vista build has been installed. And now for a few preliminary comments. On a clean install it has performed excellent. It grabbed my Wacom INTUOS with zero problems. I had zero problems with the load. I loved the fact that on a clean install you input 99% of the info needed and walk away (although I didn't do that because I wanted to watch it every step of the way). Nice add on for the expand partition bit as well. Now for the main B@#c# ..... I happen to have a stupid piece of obscure hardware......It's the MS wireless g adapter. Guess who didn't include a driver for their own hardware? Scoble, you need to drag a few heads on the table on that one. I expect to see it supported on the final build. For the record Vista was installed on a 3 year old Compaq presario s4000nx with 1 gb of ram and 2.8ghz processor with a Radeon 9650 graphics card. There is some hiccups with the screens but I have yet to pull the full windows update and tweak the settings. As far as UAC, what little I have played with it, It seems to have little impact on what I am doing. A few hours from now I may throw a fit, but so far, I think I might think that Vista is an ok OS. Just a comment or two, I have worked on Dell's before and they rank second worst in my list of CRAPPY PC's. IBM is still no. 1. It's easy to make a great software experience when you control the hardware, but when you try to be everything to everyone....well.... I think you can make a guess to that one. Now off to break Vista.....Will be back to rant if necessary after the printer install fight. Will give windows update a chance to fix it first. (heck guess I just got lucky)
Bosko
· 3 years ago
Scoble, it's awesome that you guys decided to do this.
gattsuru: Feel free to correct me, but I don't think you can get a bad download using BitTorrent. The way BitTorrent is designed, transfers are already checked against some sort of hash. This makes it next to impossible for someone to seed malicious code, as the fragments of the file they send will simply be discarded as a bad data.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
@66. You've just described a hefty portion of the gaming market, and nearly all of the utility market. These groups overwhelmingly focus on cost - hence why AMD is running gold, and why ATi is still even alive.
These markets overwhelmingly consist of people unwilling to pay more than a set amount, often running into issues because of that. SEE : Oblivion release, any recent MMO board, and the fact that people still buy from Dell (and aren't as stoned as the 'Dell Dude').
You're talking to someone that builds his computers by setting what minimum requirements are, and then clicks the "Sort by Ascending Prices" button (and often brings his minimum requirements down a notch or two).
This affects individuals who do not build their own PCs (or would build Macs if given the opportunity). PCs have a massive variety of options and choices in prebuilt computers, giving the consumers many more potential choices and presenting significant competition between computer manufactors. Meanwhile, Macs do not do this - there are only X model lines, and there's no real competition. I don't really like the legal possibilites put forward by this, but that's a different arguement.
I also can't believe you can really look at a Mac OS X system as something you can just throw out on a desktop and have it provide the clients anything they need. Oh dear, someone from outside the company sent you an e-mail in *.doc format instead of PDF, and a *.zip'd image instead of *.sit! Now you either have to install a program or complain to other people! \|/ Doooooooom \|/
I'll certainly admit that MS isn't great at that (though I've had better luck with an AFK install CD that includes a few basic programs like OpenOffice, Spybot's basic immunizations, and a few other tools, than an apple-zealot colleague of mine has), but claiming it as a high point of Mac isn't entirely honest, particularly if we have the option of some of the more complete Debian or Gentoo outfits (which can be made ridiculously able to fit any situation).
And, seriously, when's the last time you've had a critical driver error affecting Windows XP? I've built three computers in the last year with *wildly* varying parts and not had an issue.
dmad
· 3 years ago
@68. after a half hour work, not viruses in the last year and no hardware or software problems in six months!! Hey!, how 'bout that?!!! 6 months? That's a great MTBF benchmark. Any enterprise I'm sure would be exstatic over that metric!!!
I've had a Mac for almost 2 years and with, uh...well, absolutely NO WORk, haven't had a virus in...well...never. And have had a hardware or software problem in...uh...lemme see...well....never.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
James : haven't studied the matter, nor do I use torrents often (haven't played WoW in over a year now, and don't like the hard drive grind). I believe it's a per-client basis. Regardless, I'm sure the people in charge of the mess that is Vista could have coded up some relatively secure solution.
I'm doubtful they would have considered it worthwhile, given their stance against torrents otherwise, and the power rush of having complete control over an aspect people actually want.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
Dmad : you've been lucky, then, either that or haven't used virus scan software recently. Mac virii are rare, but far from underheard of. Same goes for Mac software issues ended up in system crashes.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
:sigh: Sorry for the triple post - I have been corrected, an inherent part of all bittorrent clients is to check MD5 hashes.
There are ways around this - MD5 hasn't been considered secure since 1996 - but I apologize for the inaccuracy.
jean
· 3 years ago
Robert,
Can I install it on a partition. The previous versions took over my entire hdd.
Not using it because “you can’t control it” is bull.
I know, I know. But Scoble just parrots whatever his misinfo handlers feed him. Why can't they just say not in our strategic plan, instead of hemming hawing and lying all the time? Even if so, surely the world's biggest software company can find (partner) a solution. So a lie, or incompetence, take your pick. The real answer is just all the usual "not invented here".
John C. Welch
· 3 years ago
Gattsuru, you are so wrong, I need a new word to describe the wrongness of your wrongitude.
I also can’t believe you can really look at a Mac OS X system as something you can just throw out on a desktop and have it provide the clients anything they need. Oh dear, someone from outside the company sent you an e-mail in *.doc format instead of PDF, and a *.zip’d image instead of *.sit! Now you either have to install a program or complain to other people! \|/ Doooooooom \|/
Um, Word 2004 takes care of that Word file, (it's amazing how handy WORD is for opening WORD FILES), and Mac OS X opens zips natively. Creates them too. Double-click the zip file and DUN-DUN-DUNNNNN! It unzips, and OMGWTFKHAAAN! You have magical unzipped files.
And, seriously, when’s the last time you’ve had a critical driver error affecting Windows XP? I’ve built three computers in the last year with *wildly* varying parts and not had an issue.
Three in the last month with servers. Of course, they were white-box servers, because some moron wanted to save a buck over name brand. Now we're back in the realm of sanity, and buying HP.
Dmad : you’ve been lucky, then, either that or haven’t used virus scan software recently. Mac virii are rare, but far from underheard of.
right around 5. None are "classic" virii, most are trojans, one's a crippled worm with some rather serious bugs that keep it from working too well.
Care to compare to Windows? Didn't think so. Next?
Same goes for Mac software issues ended up in system crashes.
Very rare, and usually the result of bad kernel modules. Symantec is infamous for that. Again, Windows is no better or no worse here. All software crashes.
Why do I think you haven't regularly used a Mac since OS 9 was new?
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
@77 - The official word on the matter, according to Chris Pirillo (who would probably know) and individuals on the Pro-networks forum, is "There are legal and privacy issues which unfortunately make that not an option for Microsoft to officially sponsor a BitTorrent." The only mention of security is later on "If someone [seeds or downloads a torrent] we can’t guarantee that they’ve got an unaltered copy, etc."
If Scrobles was just parroting, he'd stick with that yardstick.
@78. I've actually had the misfortune of crashing Puma and Cheetah (whatever number that was), which I also think was ridiculously underpowered a series, and kernel panics were common even compared to Windows software (compared to even '98, it was pretty ugly). It's no doubt improved since then. Last time I walked by a Mac machine, I didn't even get the Bomb icon!
I've still had a good many crashes, and seen a good number of viral issues. Didn't know the base installation came with Word 2004 or a native unzip program, though. Thought Mac was still married to that fucking .sit thing.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
Gagh... lost my note on virii :
I remember in January or Febuary of this year, there being three pretty significant critical OS X issues, and the only real requirement for letting them occur was to use superuser mode (and if the more recent Mac OS versions still run like Ubuntu, people will use root). According to an old CNN article, one (incomplete) version of the bug resulted in a situation where "several of his operating system files were deleted, several new files were created and several applications, including a program for recording audio, were crippled."
I can get a free virus scan anywhere for my Windows machine, and everybody and their sister knows to. How are your Mac users doing, again?
I don't think this is as clearcut a victory as you wish.
John C. Welch
· 3 years ago
Again, gattsuru, your complete lack of knowledge shines forth like a burnt-out bulb.
If you had used Mac OS X, you'd know that with the desktop, by default, root console login is disabled. No login, no su. So running as root requires specific actions to enable root login. But, you don't have to, ever. Mac OS X Server has root enabled, but that's for some specific actions related to Open Directory replication, and if you are not using that, you can actually disable root login with no ill effects.
So enabling root login is not done by default outside of server, and in server, is only needed for a very specific set of functionality.
As well, everyone in the Mac community knows about ClamAVx, which is...oh look, a free AV scanner.
Note that the best you could do is precisely one instance, and had the person in question not blindly clicked on a link and downloaded software from an unknown source, which is stupid regardless of OS, he'd have been fine.
Again, you really don't know a thing about Mac OS X, do you.
Shawn Levasseur
· 3 years ago
Admittably, this could be considered "piling on", Gattsuru, but .doc files can be opened with TextEdit a program that comes with all MacOS computers.
It won't be a perfect replica of the document that was created in Word. But it'll do the job. Older macs often came bundled with Appleworks which also had the ability to translate Word docs into its own format. (You could save in Word format too if you wanted).
"(and if the more recent Mac OS versions still run like Ubuntu, people will use root)"
Most Mac users have never even thought of logging in as root save for those who had used Unix in the past. Few even need to use "su", if they ever even look at the terminal.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
John, I think you mixed a metaphor there, but to the subject...
No, not everyone knows about ClamAVx. If they did, the question wouldn't be left to rot for days on otherwise active Mac message boards. Not everyone knows that clicking on a link could damage their MAC, the thing that's been marketed as virus-free (and, really, if your answer to a virus threat is "you could avoid it if you didn't do something stupid," well, hate to break it to you, but the same is the case for Windows, and it's no defense for Windows, either). The example never stated the victim ran software, as well, but I'll bow to your knowledge of the subject on that one.
I also distinctly remember Cheetah providing error messages about running without Superuser privleges in some modes.
John C. Welch
· 3 years ago
Okay, no, it's not marketed as "Virus - Free". Just more resistant than windows due to Windows administrator being effectively root, and things breaking in XP and earlier if you aren't an administrator.
If you care to provide proof of 10.1 and earlier warning about not logging in as root, I'll take it seriously, but quite honestly, I've been dealing with OS X since Apple first bought NeXT, and even pre-public beta, you didn't have to run as root for anything.
And if you actually read the article, the victim was trying to download what he thought was he clicked on a series of links that promised pictures of an unreleased update to his computer's operating system. Hmm...maybe not a great move?
Windows has a history of being infected without the victim doing anything, (Code Red/Nimda anyone? Slammer?) which is a wee bit different here.
I'm still going to say that your Mac OS X experience is only slightly worse than my Ahmdal experience, based on the ignorance of your comments.
dmad
· 3 years ago
gattsuru, I'll gladly compare frequency of virii and hardware and software crashes between Window and Mac "everyday users" that user their computers as tools for accomplishing a task, and not as geeks user them. As the means and end itself. Care to compare the MTFB between the two platforms? I'll grant that if you looked hard enough you cound find similar instances for most anything on a MAC. It just wouldn't take as much time to find examples on a Windows platform
I'll also gladly compare set up, configuration and boot up times between Windows and a Mac as well. This type of stuff also leads to much frustration in the Windows world. Oh yea, I forgot that because I can run Windows on any type of PC hardware this makes the above issues occure more frequently. and this is supposed to be a good thing because users have choice. Alas, all this is moot because as Scoble sould have us believe, the average Joe computer user REALLY wants to be able to write on this screen and use his computer to watch TV.
gattsuru
· 3 years ago
Er... John? You seem to know less about virals than I do about Mac OS X.
Code Red attacked Windows 2000/NT machines running IIS that had gone more than a month without downloading critical updates. That's pretty stupid, I'd say. Nimda required a user to a) have open network write rights, b) open e-mail from untrustable sources, or c) browse sites while autoaccepting and executing data, while the site itself had to be based on a server that hadn't updated in three or more months. A and B would be stupid for a brick, and C is about what it would take for your Mac user to have downloaded the virus I mentioned. Slammer infected only people running more than six months without updating a goddamned SERVER. Again, we're talking dumb for bricks here.
If you want another fun look at this whole "Mac is 'virus-free'", and to know that I'm not the only one spreading this meme, take a fun look at Jack Campbell's blog. You may not recognize the name, but he... well, read the damned thing, you'll trust a fellow Mac Fanboi a bit more than myself. He's lying, of course, or at least stretching the truth by a few hairs.
And what's "Classic" (as in mode) in OSX 10.0/.1?
Ervin J
· 3 years ago
Is it only me, or Windows Vista is to Windows XP as Office 2003 was to Office XP? For the average user, it seems much more evolutionary than revolutionary. So evolutionary that one wonders if it's worth the upgrade.
Anyway, I have just uninstalled it. Back to good ol' Windows XP...
dmad
· 3 years ago
@87. What a minute... clicking on a link from an unknown source should be excused because not everyone knows not to, but opening an email from an untrusted source shouldn't be excused? Interesting.
The point is, and you surely have to realize this, there are more holes and entry points for attacks in a Windows environment than the MAC. And again, looking at the broader average Joe population of users for MACs vs Windows, I would bet the instances are fewer in the MAC, thus the user experience, by comparison, is much better.
Atholas
· 3 years ago
There are quite a few behind-the-scene security enhancement such as their Address Space Layout Randomization (which some has speculated that they might have looked at OpenBSD for ideas on how to implement it properly). Of course these security enhacements wouldn't affect or be noticable by the end-users, which is a good thing.
One thing that puts me off Windows Vista is the requiprement of 15GB of freespace for a Windows Vista Premium install (I don't know how much is needed for a base install, and I couldn't find any official word on that). Apart from this, the security features alone would be enough motivation for me to upgrade.
It'd be interesting to see how fast the public will adopt Vista when it is released :-)
John C. Welch
· 3 years ago
Gatt, Jack Campbell's a moron, and for the record, I hate fanboys. In fact, I did an entire article called "Jack Campbell is a great honking prat". I even invented a term for them
MacMac
It is not a term of endearment.
However, your issue of "was the server patched" is a strawman. The fact is, there are *far* more cases, not proof of concept, but actual in-the-wild cases of thousands of Windows Boxen being successfully attacked by malware without the user doing *anything*
In one test some colleagues of mine did at MIT, they bought a copy of XP, (right after SP2 was released, so the store SKUs hadn't been refreshed), and watched what happened as they loaded it on a wiped drive, and started to patch. Within the minutes it took to start downloading SP2, before it could be applied, that fresh copy of windows had over a hundred infections, and the ONLY thing they'd done was register windows and run windows update.
Yet you compare that to less than a handful of non proof-of-concept cases of malware, since 2001, and try to say that Mac OS X is just as insecure as Windows?
No. You really just have no idea about OS X and are unable to admit that you don't know squat about the OS.
Gattsuru
· 3 years ago
@89 : How often do you open e-mail from people you don't know, while autorunning said mail in HTML mode? Really, am I some sort of freak for not decided to open mail from 128390@1321.com?
But clicking random links from unveried sites isn't rare. I'm not talking just IRC/IM ones - the link to this site, for me, came from a blog (I think from Chris Pirillo), and there was no way to verify that site. Hell, have you verified "Google" recently? Do you trust them (remember, this is a company that recently decided it would censor sites for its Chinese version.)
NEITHER are intelligent. But the former is warned against by nearly every security text, while the later is considered bad, but not entirely avoidable.
@90 : Basic footprint is on the scale of 10 gigs. I've tried messing around and got down to 8 gigs, but lost stability, so I dunno what you can expect.
Shrom
· 3 years ago
Well this actually a NEWS if Loghorn aka Vista is available for download. But i guess my pals are right it gonna take hella time to pull it off the tree.
and even the best of broadband would appear lame.
i hope these guys make some changes in the MS Word this time around. hope Office 2007 is better. No bugs attached.
Gattsuru
· 3 years ago
Shrom :
Office 2007 Beta is already open as well. It's an interesting romp.
It's also, like Vista, evolutionary rather than revolutionary. The only major change(in my experience - when it comes to Word Processing, I'm a normal user, not a superuser like others are) is menu-based. Instead of the previous Office's emphasis on the typical File-Edit-View... Toolbar swarm setup, you instead have a big "Office Button" (which does File menu type of stuff, like Open, Save, New File) and a single "Ribbon", which is like a tabbed ToolBar.
It seems more efficient to me. It still won't be enough to drag me away from OO.org or just plain text editors.
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yatheesh
· 2 years ago
i like vista os i like down load vista os
Patience
· 2 years ago
Hi! I just got an acer Aspire notebook with Windows Vista... but It is stuck on "Windows is resuming" now for some reason. And will NOT go anywhere else. Can anyone tell me a way to get around it or if it's even fixable, please? e-mail: bluegirlrose@hotmail.com I would appreciate it very much!
shanmugasundaram
· 2 years ago
send me vista os [ultimate]
benjamin
· 2 years ago
i will like to download this window because my windos is coropted and i want to use vista
benjamin
· 2 years ago
while is it that people don like window vista
benjamin
· 2 years ago
why that most of people are complaning about window vista that is not sorported their system configuration
jessica
· 2 years ago
the windows vista is the best
abc
· 2 years ago
Hi Want to download Vista OS
Al
· 1 year ago
Windows vista is the pit of them all,you will lose time trying to fix the probles then doing what you supode be doing, DO NOT BUY VISTA it's worth 000. Microsoft should pay every owner of vista a reward and replace their operating system with XP Pleas trust me I am in this problem for over 90 days so far and I am still having problems.
Ramamurthy
· 6 months ago
Vista Home Basic - some problem. so loaded Windosws XP .This seems not genuine software. I like to load back Vista( for which I have he authenticity number ) butam stuck I have NO Back up CD How do I get the Vista on to my lapto?
All Comments
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.. seems to be the word of the day.
It'll be nice to finally check it out.
If you want to see the latest features of Vista, just go to your local Apple store and try a Mac.
Seriously, talk about what is here now and forget about what is coming. That is why I switched. From now on, in my life it's only what is available TODAY.
Last year, this year and next year the Mac and OS X is superior. I'll check back in 2008 when I am ready to upgrade.
Disclaimer: I am a former .NET developer and MS apologist. I appreciate what MS has done in the past and they make a lot of great stuff with a lot of smart people.
But right now, for me, my family most of my friends the Mac is the way to go, with or without Boot Camp.
And I do enjoy your blog because of the overall tech theme and the MS content.
I'd say I talk about gymnastics and Cheer Tumbling 55% of the time. I was worried that I was going to turn off readers by blogging personal events. I recently blogged about my car's passenger seat window being shattered at work.
http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,...
¬¬
Personally, I have no use for a tablet, don't watch TV and the components in my iMac are quite good and way above the typical eMachine quality.
I tend to buy slightly upscale computers - my last one was a souped up Dell and I didn't upgrade that one either.
But you're right, I could have upgraded the Dell if I wanted to. On the iMac I can only upgrade the RAM and hard drive.
I like your points though and I wish MS spent more time pumping up what is there (and great) like Tablets, Media Center and the Xbox. Enough already with Vista and Office 2007,8,9 - they don't exist yet.
And for God's sake, get rid of the Dinosaur ads, they only prove my point about MS being old news.
And while I exist in the RDF of Jobs, the man has style, taste and the ability to drive a team to deliver and demands excellence. Traits that MiniMfst probably yearns for MS in a big way.
If and when Vista ever ships (2007? 2008?), I will compare it to OS X - who knows maybe it will be even better, but right now OS x is a lot better than XP.
A. Lot. Better.
Kent, dude, get Firefox and block those ads if they bug you so much...I don't even know what you're talking about!
I sincerely hope that the Vista upgrade can be uninstalled... I am still looking for the answer.
If it's true, and I'll have to restore Windows XP by wiping out my Thinkpad, for the first time in my life I will say: FUCK YOU, Microsoft! There was no warning that the "upgrade" from Windows XP cannot be uninstalled.
Note: This is beta code and should not be used in a production environment or on a main machine in the home.
It was my mistake. Not having done an OS upgrade for the last 5 years or so, I forgot that it's one way only. And I was too excited to try out the beta. I guess, I gave MS too much credit. Anyway, Microsoft "screwed up" (can't find a better word) royally the public beta, from my point of view. I, for one, won't ever try out Microsoft beta software, even if it's public. It's way too buggy and unfinished, even for somebody like me, who breathes desktop Windows.
By putting out a public beta with so many problems (blue screens, missing drivers - even for popular notebooks, impossibility of uninstalling, the many annoying dialogs asking for permission etc.), I am sure Microsoft will alienate a lot of people who would have bought Vista otherwise. Myself, I will think twice before shelling out the money; the public beta came with much more problems than I expected. Microsoft should think twice before offering problematic software for public preview; it might do much more bad than good to its image.
Again, Robert, I apologize for the comment above. Not for the contents, but for the "packaging".
1. It's a Beta. There are bound to be problems. That's why it's there.
2. If you "upgraded" your XP installation, you overwrote a lot of system files. That's why there is a "custom" installation option, where you can choose to install on a separate partition and Vista will automatically set your computer up for dual-boot.
3. A lot of machine specific drivers are added by OEMs like Lenovo and Dell in their factories. Vista supports over 12,000 devices inbox - but there are bound to be ones that you would need to go out and get (Windows Update does a wonderful job of that).
4. If you get a BSOD, take the time to file a bug with Microsoft. That's what the public beta is for - so that MS can improve the product.
Funny how you didn't mention the world beating UMPC in that list. Ahh what a beauty that is. :)
Vista, OS X and Linux will soon be completely irrelivant. Once Google announce the Google OS, nothing else will matter. Everyone loves Google. Just ask Mike Arrington. :)
Even if it did ship this year - which even Balmer in his "own world" way is finding increasingly hard to state - who in their right mind would put it into a production environment ot commit a mass of personal data to it ? Just to lose it all ? If its rushed out - as Visual Studio 2005 was - it'll just result in yet more egg-on-face. So we're 12-18 months out from large scale adoption of this thing AT BEST.
mmm.
Of all the features that are being ripped out of Vista - PC Synch was canned today - surely the DRM features are the least popular with customers. Why not ditch that and tell the RIAA to get lost ?
That might actually *raise* folks opinions of MS ?
I installed Fedora Core 5 the other week, and I didnt have to type in a 25-digit alphanumeric sequence, nor did it "call home" unless I let it. Its a pleasing interface, included a browser - Firefox - and of course included OpenOffice. It worked first time with a bizarre set of hardware, auto-updated itself (if I wanted it to), and allowed me to browse windows file shares - as well as provide a file server capability to other windows machines in the (active directory) network. Call this entire package "Small Business Server" and "Office", and you start to see its capability. (Oh, and I downloaded it using Bittorrent).
Total price: Nothing. Zip. Zilch.
All perfectly legal. No spyware, no viruses, no popups, no trojans.
Why does letting people see a beta copy of Vista possibly help MS ? Why all the hype about product thats not ready to see the light of day yet ?
---* Bill
As an afterthought. Given the current frenzy that MS are whipping themselves into over software more than a year out, how on earth are you going to react when something actually gets shipped ? I have this "max-headroom" mental picture of folks heads exploding. Now thats a pleasing thought.
1. I know that. But most of the people who download it won't. Do not forget that it's a public beta. While I can accept minor crashes, getting a BSOD just because I ejected a DVD seems major (and I only played with Vista about 10 minutes). Microsoft should have kept this beta private. Same goes for Office 2007 beta 2, which has even bigger problems.
2. The problem with MS is that different products offer different behaviors at upgrade. That's confusing. Except for the operating systems, you can uninstall/restore 90+% of the service packs, patches, clean installs or upgrades. I simply cannot understand why a 4 GB OS (especially a beta) cannot sacrifice another 1 GB for uninstallation purposes, like service packs do. It should be a no brainer - just the opposite of what setup.exe does.
3. Because Lenovo T60 is one of the most popular business notebooks selling today, Microsoft should work proactively with Lenovo to include drivers in Vista. If one cannot install Vista on a ThinkPad, what can one expect for a much less popular notebook? Running Vista right now seems like a downgrade from Windows XP, the first OS that felt truly PnP. (I am a consumer, and I don't give **** that MS had the stupid idea of changing the driver model again.)
4. If Microsoft wants me to file a bug report, it should make it easier and more rewarding. Why should I waste my time writing a detailed bug report for a commercial product?
Jobs, if he played his cards right and went controlled-commodity could have ruled the world. Now another 2 years before Vista really takes hold and that's thought of as progress. Case study on the failure of free enterprise...by all practical rights, someone should have developed a better Desktop OS and Office Suite mousetrap faster, with great marketshare. LAMP is no savior, and OSX is too freaky cultic. And the Web 2.0 and HTML dot.commies are complete kooks. And customer satifaction with Salesforce-like apps is at a new low, nearly as hated as Vonnage.
BSOD just because I ejected a DVD
You too, eh? Only it's a freeze, I never get to the BSOD/RSOD. My Sony external is the "problem", and for the life of me it won't reco my 160 gig Seagate external, tho XP will just fine. And it won't find my LG phone either, can't Bitpim on Vista. And for all the driver support it somehow lacks my color laser and old drivers make photos into abstract works of "art". And I get random freezes on printing to PDFs. Amazingly buggy, amazingly. And that IE is a whole problem unto itself, Opera works a charm however. On the plus side, UI is better and it flows, smoother, has potential, but then 10 mins later gotta reboot again. Frakking (Battlestar lingo there) frustrating...this puppy's getting NUKED.
Why should I waste my time writing a detailed bug report for a commercial product?
You will feel warm and fuzzy inside and make blogger Evangelists all happy. And get to improve the process, blah blah blah. (See the Scoble script for the last months of 2003 into mid 2004).
And as for their eternal 'woe is us' distro problems, maybe they should look into Bitorrent, yes? Heck, even Warner is now.
I know about the Thinkvantage button, plus I have a set of recovery CDs. I am just not in the mood of spending another 3-4 hours tweaking XP to my taste, right now. I will probably play with it tomorrow.
I won't have lost any data, just settings. No big deal, just some wasted time and nerves. Plus I still cannot believe how unimpressive the whole Vista experience has been, for me.
Btw, enjoy:
http://download.windowsvista.com/dl/preview/bet... (32-bit)
http://download.windowsvista.com/dl/preview/bet... (64-bit)
(Note: windowsvista.com is registered to Microsoft Corporation, so these links are probably legit.)
HP has outstanding driver/software support, from my experience. I once had an HP external CD-Writer, "made for" Windows 9x/NT 4, and HP published Windows 2000 and XP drivers 4 years after I had bought it. For free. Now that's what I call tech support!
I don't like IBM as a company, but their/Lenovo's ThinkPad line is still impressive. Plus their customer service, too.
I have run Windows Update. Got the Intel 945GM drivers. But still my video adapter is not recognized and I still have Vista Basic. Oh, well!
I hope Lenovo will release some Vista drivers for the T60. From what I have seen, except for the bugs, Vista is clearly a step in the right direction, a better XP. I am just not sure I will buy upgrades to it, especially if I won't be able to try it out beforehand. From the driver/PnP point of view, Vista seems still immature, and that's unacceptable in 2006.
I'm supprised they actually host files on their servers. With their knowledge, they'd rather split the ISO into 2,000+ pieces for a damn floppy disk. Ugh.
I don't have high hopes for Vista, if Microsoft isn't smart enough to create a torrent for a 3.2GB ISO file.
Sorry for the harsh words, Windows team! It was clearly my fault, too.
If the reader finds that Vista is not working properly, I suggest her to be more patient than I was. It might be an OEM problem. The more I play with Vista (now that I have the proper video drivers) the more it seems worth the extra mile (of sweat). Don't let my previous posts scare you. Enjoy!
Don't get me wrong I am really pleased that they have released a beta, I just think it needs polishing. Thanks for reporting it. -Sebastian at SEBRT.com
http://www.digg.com/technology/No_DVD_Burner_No.....
I know it must be painful for you all to know that OS X is so vastly superior in every single way, yet it’s still not had any real impact on the massive market share of windows. But why don’t you just sit back and enjoy the smug feeling you get from knowing that you are smarter than 94% of the computer users out there? There really is no need to keep repeating the same old lines over and over and over again, unless you’re trying to bore us all into submission.
Despite what many mac/linux zealots may believe, no one is forced to use windows, I do because I choose to, simple as that. If I thought another OS would suit my needs better I would use it, but I don’t see any advantage what so ever in switching. If I want to make windows look pretty I would just change my theme and make it look how I like. I very rarely have issues with windows, no stability problems, no viruses, worms, spyware problems at all. So why is it that every a time a mac user jumps onto windows machine they claim to get infected with dozens of virus’s and suffer endless blue screens in just a couple of hours? What do you do that causes you so many problems? Or are you just telling a few lies to convince yourself your OS really is superior.
I’m not anti-apple, i’ve owned macs all my life and think OS X is a really nice OS I just hate the fanboys that infect just about every forum and blog on the web. A polite request from me GO AWAY! and stop boring everyone with your propaganda.
Pingback by What it’s like to start a real estate company online » Bad Idea — June 9, 2006 @ 3:22 pm
Look up the World of Warcraft Open Beta client downloader if you don't believe me.
It's not that hard to program, either, so someone at MS could whip up a nice, pretty app to do it. Hell, I wrote a UNIX shell script to calculate an MD5 sum using the MD5 command under the Korn Shell (ksh)
http://www.cypherxero.net/bin/
And like I said, there are ways to make a nice, shiny, pretty, glossy, easy-as-hell application to compare hashes.
I think a more significant issue is that Microsoft has been anti-torrent for a while now, and for good reason (they don't like the piracy implications).
I'm also willing to beat that a destructively altered Operating System could do just a bit more damage than a bad World of Warcraft patch, say fry a motherboard or a couple sticks of RAM as opposed to make a texture not load properly or a client crash.
Sure, you can prevent this sort of thing, if your user is sufficiently intelligent. You'd still get your ass sued if they were morons, though. (I've also heard rumors of a way to spoof an MD5 hash, but that's supposed to be impossible, so I'll leave it as a rumor for now)
As to Mac vs Windows... when Mac can sell me an operating system that can work on any computer I slap together (which, as you might guess, will be one that can be easily upgraded), operates a majority of the commercial software out there, and offers meaningful utility for the price. As it is, you can't legally run Mac OS X on anything outside around 20 total product lines, useful Mac-friendly software is harder to find than Linux-friendly ones, and a current "upgrade" of Mac OS X will set you back $130, not to mention the ~10-25% overprice in hardware costs.
So, yeah, I don't think the vast gaming or normal use population will be flying to the Mac side anytime soon.
If you're just interested in scooting around the web and ocassionally writing and drawing stuff (not printing it, unless you want to go nuts trying to get your intel-friendly printer driver to work), and don't mind paying for overpriced hardware, Mac's the way to go. Of course, you could skip the costs of Mac hardware and software and go Linux, get better results...
I'll stick with my Windows machine that, after half an hour of work, hasn't had a virus in the last year, and hasn't had hardware or software problems within six months.
Vista's feeling kinda "Bleh", though. Huge footprint, even for beta code, and a lot of things being changed without much in the way of actual "new" code. What the hell happened to a single, nice, compact "Display Properties", like you've been able to access off the desktop since '95? Or the File menu that was present in Windows 3.11?
Widgets and transparencies are nice, but they Mac-ware - lots of flavor, no real content, and take forever to disable manually. I'd really have liked a choice, early in the installation dialog, to get only "Classic Windows" or "Windows Aero".
IE7 sucks, although not as much as IE6. I'm still using Firefox, which runs faster in the same environment, and has more utility through extensions.
I'm liking most of the security changes, although letting UACs automatically for things like any program running from a CD might have been a good choice, if it could have been spoof-proof. My company will get Vista just for that aspect.
But then, I helped it along. Ooops.
My main point was meant to be to focus on the here and now. Right now, MS does make an innovative and exciting product - the Tablet PC. Not for me, but it is very interesting. And OneNote should be installed on every Tablet by default, since it's the closest thing I can think of as a "killer app" for the Tablet PC.
Xbox 360 is here now and the whole Xbox Live thing is fantastic. Kudos.
MS has brought computing to hundreds of millions of people at low cost. Great. And maintaining backwards combatibilty (for the most part) is a massive, difficult and largely successful endeavour. Again, Kudos.
The Media center is a great idea, my brother has one and loves it. Talk about it more, most people I know aren't aware of it or what it can do.
And then there is Office, the big money maker. It works on both PCs and Macs, so pump it up, you could have 100% market share even if the PC vs. Mac landscape changes dramtically.
Finally, games, games games. Yes, you need to use Windows and a custom built PC to play all the latest and greatest games.
That is what is available today, shout it from the rooftops as they really are quite good.
As for myself, I am in the small niche that likes to listen to music, take digital photos, edit home video of my kid and burn a DVD for the Grandparents, make web sites for fun with Ruby on Rails (works on Windows too) and values my time. Of course I surf the web but I also create newsletters and Keynote presentations. I video conference with my in laws using the built in sotware and camera. And PhotoBooth is a blast.
I can't even begin to count the endless hours I've spent at family and friend's houses cleaning up their PCs. With all my overpriced Mac hardware and software it all just works together with drag and drop ease, never crashes and gets out of my way. If I were to calculate all my time saved, my Mac is a lot cheaper than my Dell.
As for this whole Vista download, this should be targeted at those MSDN deep dives or to MVPs, not the general public. It's confusing and will leave a bad taste for some.
Now, I think users just want their computers to work. I'm sure many of us Windows users even have a plethora of stories about having to help our friends and neighbors set up or "fix" their computers and at some point having the mind be boggled by how long it takes to set up a Wintel machine vs a Mac. As for you not having stabiliy or config problems, while that may be true, I believe you are in the minority. MS doesn't own the hardware so they are more prone to stability issues.
The no-torrent thing is super dumb. Make the first thing you download from Microsoft be a tiny validation application (100% guaranteed Microsoft code! Even digitally sign it if you want! Hell, make it available on Windows Update!)
Second, you download the Vista 'data' file (via http, akamai, bit-torrent - whatever - this is the big file, of course).
You run the validator, it asks you where the Vista data file is. It uses a secure cryptographic hash to validate that you have the correct data file. It then twiddles a couple of bytes (or, say, decrypts the first 2Mb of the file) to turn the data file into a valid ISO (for example).
If it works, you now have a guaranteed correct ISO file, no matter how/where you downloaded it.
(Aside: if a hacker can persuade someone to download and run the MS validator from their site instead of Microsoft's site, then they've already won anyway.)
As for those moaning about a public release - I'm a software developer, and have applied a couple of times for a preview of Vista, but have never heard anything back (Microsoft UK, though - SNAFU). So this is the only way I can try developing for Vista, so stop whining :-)
when you show me that you spec out every.single.thing you buy based on *price alone*, i'll take that argument seriously.
You buy the tool that fits your needs. Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, doesn't matter. You buy the tool that fits your needs. If I have to run a large scale directory service and not lose my mind, Active Directory, hands down. Novell has a good system, but the toolset for Active Directory is simply much better.
If I need a cheap server, Linux.
If i want to put stuff out on a desktop that I just want to work, then Mac OS X with some Remote Desktop Client goodness to a WTS box for specific needs. That way, I have a safe, easily managed client that can give its users anything they need.
But the price thing, please. Same thing with the "Oh i can't build my own hardware and run OS X"
Good.
Because that means that driver problems are .00001 the size of Windows and Linux. It means that there are three major options for Video hardware. Intel, Nvidia and ATI. It means predictable hardware and environment.
For the what, 5% of the market that simply cannot run a box they didn't build themselve, enjoy Windows and Linux. Really.
But there's no point to doing this in large scale deployments, or even small to midsized ones. The money you save is eaten by the time you don't save so fast that it doesn't ever count.
However, don't assume the build your own box crowd is in the majority. There's no numbers to back that up. So using that as some kind of proof of the superiority of Windows is inane.
There are good reasons to buy a Mac, and the price differential just isn't as much as people so despareately want to believe.
I blogged about how I thought it would be awesome if you did a while back:
http://www.crowdedweb.com/articles/2006/04/24/c...
And you did it. Kudos!
-b
These markets overwhelmingly consist of people unwilling to pay more than a set amount, often running into issues because of that. SEE : Oblivion release, any recent MMO board, and the fact that people still buy from Dell (and aren't as stoned as the 'Dell Dude').
You're talking to someone that builds his computers by setting what minimum requirements are, and then clicks the "Sort by Ascending Prices" button (and often brings his minimum requirements down a notch or two).
This affects individuals who do not build their own PCs (or would build Macs if given the opportunity). PCs have a massive variety of options and choices in prebuilt computers, giving the consumers many more potential choices and presenting significant competition between computer manufactors. Meanwhile, Macs do not do this - there are only X model lines, and there's no real competition.
I don't really like the legal possibilites put forward by this, but that's a different arguement.
I also can't believe you can really look at a Mac OS X system as something you can just throw out on a desktop and have it provide the clients anything they need. Oh dear, someone from outside the company sent you an e-mail in *.doc format instead of PDF, and a *.zip'd image instead of *.sit! Now you either have to install a program or complain to other people! \|/ Doooooooom \|/
I'll certainly admit that MS isn't great at that (though I've had better luck with an AFK install CD that includes a few basic programs like OpenOffice, Spybot's basic immunizations, and a few other tools, than an apple-zealot colleague of mine has), but claiming it as a high point of Mac isn't entirely honest, particularly if we have the option of some of the more complete Debian or Gentoo outfits (which can be made ridiculously able to fit any situation).
And, seriously, when's the last time you've had a critical driver error affecting Windows XP? I've built three computers in the last year with *wildly* varying parts and not had an issue.
I've had a Mac for almost 2 years and with, uh...well, absolutely NO WORk, haven't had a virus in...well...never. And have had a hardware or software problem in...uh...lemme see...well....never.
I'm doubtful they would have considered it worthwhile, given their stance against torrents otherwise, and the power rush of having complete control over an aspect people actually want.
There are ways around this - MD5 hasn't been considered secure since 1996 - but I apologize for the inaccuracy.
Can I install it on a partition. The previous versions took over my entire hdd.
www.irin.co.uk
I know, I know. But Scoble just parrots whatever his misinfo handlers feed him. Why can't they just say not in our strategic plan, instead of hemming hawing and lying all the time? Even if so, surely the world's biggest software company can find (partner) a solution. So a lie, or incompetence, take your pick. The real answer is just all the usual "not invented here".
I also can’t believe you can really look at a Mac OS X system as something you can just throw out on a desktop and have it provide the clients anything they need. Oh dear, someone from outside the company sent you an e-mail in *.doc format instead of PDF, and a *.zip’d image instead of *.sit! Now you either have to install a program or complain to other people! \|/ Doooooooom \|/
Um, Word 2004 takes care of that Word file, (it's amazing how handy WORD is for opening WORD FILES), and Mac OS X opens zips natively. Creates them too. Double-click the zip file and DUN-DUN-DUNNNNN! It unzips, and OMGWTFKHAAAN! You have magical unzipped files.
And, seriously, when’s the last time you’ve had a critical driver error affecting Windows XP? I’ve built three computers in the last year with *wildly* varying parts and not had an issue.
Three in the last month with servers. Of course, they were white-box servers, because some moron wanted to save a buck over name brand. Now we're back in the realm of sanity, and buying HP.
Dmad : you’ve been lucky, then, either that or haven’t used virus scan software recently. Mac virii are rare, but far from underheard of.
right around 5. None are "classic" virii, most are trojans, one's a crippled worm with some rather serious bugs that keep it from working too well.
Care to compare to Windows? Didn't think so. Next?
Same goes for Mac software issues ended up in system crashes.
Very rare, and usually the result of bad kernel modules. Symantec is infamous for that. Again, Windows is no better or no worse here. All software crashes.
Why do I think you haven't regularly used a Mac since OS 9 was new?
If Scrobles was just parroting, he'd stick with that yardstick.
@78. I've actually had the misfortune of crashing Puma and Cheetah (whatever number that was), which I also think was ridiculously underpowered a series, and kernel panics were common even compared to Windows software (compared to even '98, it was pretty ugly). It's no doubt improved since then. Last time I walked by a Mac machine, I didn't even get the Bomb icon!
I've still had a good many crashes, and seen a good number of viral issues. Didn't know the base installation came with Word 2004 or a native unzip program, though. Thought Mac was still married to that fucking .sit thing.
I remember in January or Febuary of this year, there being three pretty significant critical OS X issues, and the only real requirement for letting them occur was to use superuser mode (and if the more recent Mac OS versions still run like Ubuntu, people will use root). According to an old CNN article, one (incomplete) version of the bug resulted in a situation where "several of his operating system files were deleted, several new files were created and several applications, including a program for recording audio, were crippled."
I can get a free virus scan anywhere for my Windows machine, and everybody and their sister knows to. How are your Mac users doing, again?
I don't think this is as clearcut a victory as you wish.
If you had used Mac OS X, you'd know that with the desktop, by default, root console login is disabled. No login, no su. So running as root requires specific actions to enable root login. But, you don't have to, ever. Mac OS X Server has root enabled, but that's for some specific actions related to Open Directory replication, and if you are not using that, you can actually disable root login with no ill effects.
So enabling root login is not done by default outside of server, and in server, is only needed for a very specific set of functionality.
As well, everyone in the Mac community knows about ClamAVx, which is...oh look, a free AV scanner.
Note that the best you could do is precisely one instance, and had the person in question not blindly clicked on a link and downloaded software from an unknown source, which is stupid regardless of OS, he'd have been fine.
Again, you really don't know a thing about Mac OS X, do you.
It won't be a perfect replica of the document that was created in Word. But it'll do the job. Older macs often came bundled with Appleworks which also had the ability to translate Word docs into its own format. (You could save in Word format too if you wanted).
"(and if the more recent Mac OS versions still run like Ubuntu, people will use root)"
Most Mac users have never even thought of logging in as root save for those who had used Unix in the past. Few even need to use "su", if they ever even look at the terminal.
No, not everyone knows about ClamAVx. If they did, the question wouldn't be left to rot for days on otherwise active Mac message boards. Not everyone knows that clicking on a link could damage their MAC, the thing that's been marketed as virus-free (and, really, if your answer to a virus threat is "you could avoid it if you didn't do something stupid," well, hate to break it to you, but the same is the case for Windows, and it's no defense for Windows, either). The example never stated the victim ran software, as well, but I'll bow to your knowledge of the subject on that one.
I also distinctly remember Cheetah providing error messages about running without Superuser privleges in some modes.
If you care to provide proof of 10.1 and earlier warning about not logging in as root, I'll take it seriously, but quite honestly, I've been dealing with OS X since Apple first bought NeXT, and even pre-public beta, you didn't have to run as root for anything.
And if you actually read the article, the victim was trying to download what he thought was he clicked on a series of links that promised pictures of an unreleased update to his computer's operating system. Hmm...maybe not a great move?
Windows has a history of being infected without the victim doing anything, (Code Red/Nimda anyone? Slammer?) which is a wee bit different here.
I'm still going to say that your Mac OS X experience is only slightly worse than my Ahmdal experience, based on the ignorance of your comments.
I'll also gladly compare set up, configuration and boot up times between Windows and a Mac as well. This type of stuff also leads to much frustration in the Windows world. Oh yea, I forgot that because I can run Windows on any type of PC hardware this makes the above issues occure more frequently. and this is supposed to be a good thing because users have choice. Alas, all this is moot because as Scoble sould have us believe, the average Joe computer user REALLY wants to be able to write on this screen and use his computer to watch TV.
Code Red attacked Windows 2000/NT machines running IIS that had gone more than a month without downloading critical updates. That's pretty stupid, I'd say. Nimda required a user to a) have open network write rights, b) open e-mail from untrustable sources, or c) browse sites while autoaccepting and executing data, while the site itself had to be based on a server that hadn't updated in three or more months. A and B would be stupid for a brick, and C is about what it would take for your Mac user to have downloaded the virus I mentioned. Slammer infected only people running more than six months without updating a goddamned SERVER.
Again, we're talking dumb for bricks here.
If you want another fun look at this whole "Mac is 'virus-free'", and to know that I'm not the only one spreading this meme, take a fun look at Jack Campbell's blog. You may not recognize the name, but he... well, read the damned thing, you'll trust a fellow Mac Fanboi a bit more than myself. He's lying, of course, or at least stretching the truth by a few hairs.
And what's "Classic" (as in mode) in OSX 10.0/.1?
Anyway, I have just uninstalled it. Back to good ol' Windows XP...
The point is, and you surely have to realize this, there are more holes and entry points for attacks in a Windows environment than the MAC. And again, looking at the broader average Joe population of users for MACs vs Windows, I would bet the instances are fewer in the MAC, thus the user experience, by comparison, is much better.
One thing that puts me off Windows Vista is the requiprement of 15GB of freespace for a Windows Vista Premium install (I don't know how much is needed for a base install, and I couldn't find any official word on that). Apart from this, the security features alone would be enough motivation for me to upgrade.
It'd be interesting to see how fast the public will adopt Vista when it is released :-)
MacMac
It is not a term of endearment.
However, your issue of "was the server patched" is a strawman. The fact is, there are *far* more cases, not proof of concept, but actual in-the-wild cases of thousands of Windows Boxen being successfully attacked by malware without the user doing *anything*
In one test some colleagues of mine did at MIT, they bought a copy of XP, (right after SP2 was released, so the store SKUs hadn't been refreshed), and watched what happened as they loaded it on a wiped drive, and started to patch. Within the minutes it took to start downloading SP2, before it could be applied, that fresh copy of windows had over a hundred infections, and the ONLY thing they'd done was register windows and run windows update.
Yet you compare that to less than a handful of non proof-of-concept cases of malware, since 2001, and try to say that Mac OS X is just as insecure as Windows?
No. You really just have no idea about OS X and are unable to admit that you don't know squat about the OS.
How often do you open e-mail from people you don't know, while autorunning said mail in HTML mode? Really, am I some sort of freak for not decided to open mail from 128390@1321.com?
But clicking random links from unveried sites isn't rare. I'm not talking just IRC/IM ones - the link to this site, for me, came from a blog (I think from Chris Pirillo), and there was no way to verify that site. Hell, have you verified "Google" recently? Do you trust them (remember, this is a company that recently decided it would censor sites for its Chinese version.)
NEITHER are intelligent. But the former is warned against by nearly every security text, while the later is considered bad, but not entirely avoidable.
@90 :
Basic footprint is on the scale of 10 gigs. I've tried messing around and got down to 8 gigs, but
lost stability, so I dunno what you can expect.
and even the best of broadband would appear lame.
i hope these guys make some changes in the MS Word this time around. hope Office 2007 is better. No bugs attached.
Office 2007 Beta is already open as well. It's an interesting romp.
It's also, like Vista, evolutionary rather than revolutionary. The only major change(in my experience - when it comes to Word Processing, I'm a normal user, not a superuser like others are) is menu-based.
Instead of the previous Office's emphasis on the typical File-Edit-View... Toolbar swarm setup, you instead have a big "Office Button" (which does File menu type of stuff, like Open, Save, New File) and a single "Ribbon", which is like a tabbed ToolBar.
It seems more efficient to me. It still won't be enough to drag me away from OO.org or just plain text editors.
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