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v 9 is robust enough to do pretty much everything in tablets. Hope they continue to suport it's development
Lets wait and see what it looks like in 2010 eh? See if those other phones fall over while costing their owners a second mortgage in data transfer costs.
Ive been the only person saying this, so I will repeat it here again loud and clear. PALM IS DONE. They have nothing in the channel, or even in the sweatshops we buy all are goodies from like FOXCONN. Wow, a hands off demo of a "WebOS" WTF is that? "Nova". OK, wheres the SDK? This things launch just got pushed back AGAIN until "Q3".
Bad analogy, but its quick and dirty so it will do the job. Its like W going into Iraq again, press ate that shit up. No reporting, just buying into the sound bites and the media. Weve still yet to see dead Americans come home because of the censorship Bush imposed, but I digress. WHERE THE FUCK IS THE REPORTING on this company and product? Their financials are horrible, debt is huge, balance sheet is completely out of whack, they are virtually non exsistant and yet you people compare them to Apple and Microsoft? Right. Even Apple SHOWED, released and updated people with the iPhone. And Im a PC guy.
Just cover shit fairly and stop sucking Ed Colligans knob. Oh, and by the way, the BlackBerry Storm does all the shit this Pre supposedly does and it shipped LAST YEAR.
BlackBerry Storm doing all this last year? Yeah, right. Go ahead and keep believing that. You sound like the Nokia fanatics that come here and fight with me when I told them that iPhone was far superior to an N95 (it is).
Yes, their financials are horrible. Their product sucked. But this is a totally new team built from the ground up (I met lots of them and their director of software built the drivers for the iPhone).
Maybe I'm wrong. But I'll give Palm the chance to ship the phone. Then we can really compare the companies out there. I'll be first in line for the Palm Pre.
The way I see it Apple got ahead of the field and now is trying to hold everyone up with veiled lawsuit treats for their IP, meaning they are unwilling to license technology (they did not invent, only patented) that will improve all our user experiences.
If there is anything that has pushed the internet's reach and capability to what it is today, it's been Google, Yahoo and the like. And if they make a decision to incorporate flash into their services, Not only does it imply acceptance of the standard but also paves way for the many other sites to doubtlessly adopt the platform.
The web of the future is not about information display or html pages, its about _interaction_ with the users. And flash is one big way of doing it. Why do you think Adobe acquired Macromedia in the first place if wasnt going to be big? Its pretty obvious although not apparent yet.
Apple is losing out ground with loss of support for flash. It's a must have in the current scenario. There are rumours that new version of the iPhone is in the works for release by June.
I hope they are working on some form of flash to be incorporated in the next release...
This reminds me of the old 3D card wars. Even if some company is circulating press samples, it doesn't mean jack if they're not available to the public.
Some perspective in the iPhone vs. Pre kerfuffle, please.
Disclaimer: Yes, I currently own an iPhone. Yes, I've also owned almost every previous version of Palm (starting with original through the 700p) and would own one again if it is significantly better than whatever else I'm using - when it ships.
Since Adobe is now preparing the full-blown flash version for mobile devices, i don't think that flash would not make it to the iPhone when it is ready. Have you ever seen an announcement that relates to Apple and goes 10 - 12 months into the future?
So i'm very relaxed. Flash is going to be on the iPhone when it is ready.
News Corp sites especially seems to be very heavy on Flash adds. There is one news paper site in particular which downloads a whooping 5 Mbytes in adds when you his the homepage.
If by web experiences you mean annoying Flash-based "rich" advertising... then you're welcome to all the experiences you desire. ESPECIALLY on a portable device like the iPhone.
I even keep Flash turned off by default on my desktop. Blocks 90% of the junky bandwidth-clogging CPU-sucking advertising.
It's true that a lot of killer / popular web 2.0 sites manage without flash. Most video streaming sites use flash. Agreed, twitter may not use flash, but 15% of all tweets come from AIR clients like twhirl, tweet deck, snitter and the like. Yes It may not be critical. But blocking options in favor of what's critical is Simply not the way to go.
I will not get an iPhone if it doesnt support flash. There's just so much available on swf/flv that not having it makes for enough loss to support an alternative like Nokia's N97 or Palm Pre.
I guess we'll have to disagree and leave it at that
The other issue with Flash is that so called 'designers' use it to create website monstrosities with weird navigation and large, fixed-width layouts that would be almost impossible to use on a small screen.
By not giving web designers the crutch of Flash it forces them to be more creative when delivering content to the iPhone resulting in better use of alternative technologies such as CSS/JS including AJAX which tend to require far less bandwidth. I shudder to think of web developers being able to create Flash 'experiences' for my iPhone and hope it never happens...
Apple has sold over 17 million iPhones and many iPod Touches in less than 18 months without Flash. By the time the Pre ships, Apple will have over 20 million iPhones in the wild.
Obviously, if Apple wanted Flash on the iPhone, it would already be there. As soon as the iPhone's SDK became public, Adobe said it wanted to bring Flash to the iPhone. Similarly, Sun said the same about Java. That was nearly a year ago.
How's that working out for them? Here's a hint: there's no 3rd-party runtime environment on the iPhone. No Java; no Flash. Think about it: Apple is not going to turn over control of a critical piece of iPhone functionality (video/animation) to 3rd-party technology like Flash, unless it's deeply involved in its development and implementation. I doubt Adobe would go for the kind of terms Apple would want anyway.
What's Apple's plan? We won't know until Apple is ready to talk about them; however, some data points do exist: Apple has an entire media stack called QuickTime; perhaps you've heard of it? The iPhone contains hardware for accelerated playback of H.264 video, which QuickTime supports. Mobile Safari already supports CSS Animation which works like Flash; see "CSS Animation Coming to Safari, Already in iPhone. Less Dependence on Flash?" http://bit.ly/5A15v. Native iPhone apps can already use Core Animation.
I suspect we'll know lots more about all of this come June, with Apple's World Wide Developers Conference and the announcement of version 3.0 of the iPhone's operating system.
You are creating fake phantom drama where there is none, not that unusual, quite a common blogger technique. Apple is all about the experience, Adobe is all about the market share, end of story.
Google Analytics also use mouseover effects on those graphs. How those will work on mouseless device like smartphone? Could you please point me to one Flash site with "Rich UI" which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone.
Peter - by Analytics using Flash, I meant its use as a standard, not the specific functionality.
"Could you please point me to one Flash site with 'Rich UI' which theoretically could work 1:1 on smartphone."
Smarphones haven't yet had flash support so no-one has yet built with that mindset. That's precisely where the 10M$ grant is aimed at, you'll see enough practical-not theoretical-sites and applications coming up soon. One big sector I see is streaming.
Of course opinions on flash may vary. But those who don't like it can still turn it off on the phone if its available, right? Why cripple the experience for those who do want it? Promote quicktime? I'd hate that
No, how about just open standards rather than Quicktime, Flash or any other proprietary tech. Instead of Flash Video, standard h.264.
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"no-one has yet built with that mindset"
So Flash 10 is in 2010 and developers will have to change their mindset and develop different sites specifically for mobile? I thought the whole outcry was for accessing regular Flash sites.
regular flash sites - yes, including the ones which stream audio / video (I'd personally want this).
regular flash sites which now support smartphone viewing and touch capabilities - that will go beyond the outcry. Supporting flash will not only allow the users to view flash content as expected, but will provide platforms for a better experience thereby surpassing the initial expectation. Thats how softwares and platforms develop.
But all in all, what's the harm in _supporting_ flash. Whether user's do install / enable it is the issue you're debating here. That's their choice isnt it?
In this comparison the nokia's n97 is better (not even palm pre). but iphone market will be hit bad. Then maybe apple will get flash on iphone
No, I'm debating if proprietary Flash is even needed and if Apple should worry about it. With 15-20K iPhone apps currently available I can't imaging there's much interactive that won't be available. And I don't see that many Flash sites in the overall scheme of the web.
But, it's all mox/nix as Flash10 is a year away and we won't know if Adobe was able to make it work efficiently/well/robust till then. They don't exactly have a good record in that regard.
If a company like Nokia with a reach of millions more than Apple decides to support flash in its flagship releases, they aren't being fools in doing so. Questioning the necessity of flash on phones is something that the users will have to decide (and companies, follow). Not mobile phones companies, not apple, not you, not me. Lets just wait and watch.
I think apple doesnt want flash on iphone, period! It's not a matter of flash 10 being too heavy or flash lite being too light. There's flash 7 for windows mobile and runs pretty well even though most of them have lower processors compared to said iphone. Check their sites, not a byte of flash is there. The reason: Flash killed Quicktime! It's time for payback.
Most bloggers here are talking of sites running flash and animations being a disturbance. The purpose of porting flash lite to pre and by extension the purpose of this announcement is not really for phones to play flash content based sites. It's for us developers to leverage flash to build apps that'll run on mobile phones. The $10million is not to build flash sites, it's to build sexy flash applications that will wow users on mobile phones and that's flash's strength and that is the purpose of porting flash to mobile phones!
For you guys that say social networks dont need flash, for the record: what does Facebook officially use to Play your uploaded videos? What does it use to record videos? how about myspace? what does CNN, BBC use to play videos? Maybe we should go back to choose from options: Windows Media Player | Real Player | Quicktime Player. Flash makes life seamless.
If you have developed on J2ME (Java's mobile edition) and Flash Lite, then you'll understand better. To create a button in J2ME, you have to program the raw look and feel. In Flash lite, you draw a button with Mouse! Moreso the strength is in its consistency. What I see on phone A appears same on Phone B.
Scoble,
It seems to have escaped your attention that Apple doesn't want Flash on the iPhone. It's a major resource hog. Also, anything that runs a language interpreter (like a JVM or Flash) is explicitly prohibited by the iPhone developer terms.