Scobleizer: China blocks search engines…(or not, according to Blognation)
Ron
· 2 years ago
Had anyone bothered to fact check and verify this with someone actually living in China? Seems like the pretty obvious thing to do before going with the story. But this is why blogging is one of the more irresponsible means of "reporting" news
Steve
· 2 years ago
better watch it, or you will be blocked next ;)
Wilfred Mworia
· 2 years ago
Now there's a sad story. Please do keep us up to date on any sentiments by the folks at the Web 2.0 summit i would very much like to hear what the influencors of technology have to say about this move by China.
Seth E
· 2 years ago
Although I wonder what's worse: China blocking all search engines or China allowing search engines (ie Google) so long as they do China's censoring for them. In the second case, we (America et al.) are PARTICIPATING in the censorship which so far most of our companies have been more then willing to comply with.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Ron: yes, Duncan fact checked it with several people. If the facts are wrong, you'll learn about it very quickly. I have lots of readers inside China.
My blog is already frequently blocked inside China, so this is nothing new.
Michael Flanagan
· 2 years ago
Is this really a new story? I'm sure I've been hearing about China blocking searches since forever.
It saddens me that nothing ever gets done about it. I think there's very little public awareness as to just how public-awareness friendly china isn't.
sad
· 2 years ago
Blah blah blah, if this is true. Then this is a reminder that China is a communist country...
So, a if-this-is-true rumor is a reminder, brilliant.
In fact, USA should pull out of the Olympics even if it is not true. China is a communist country because you say so. And of course US companies and media only "contribute" to Olympics--it's so not fair.
Scoble said "NASDAQ should delist Baidu immediately in retaliation, if this is true. The USA should pull out of the Olympics next year."
This proves how much a reactionary you are. I'm baffled people out there want to make friend with you. You deserve NONE.
Kit Seeborg
· 2 years ago
I do not believe anyone should pull out of the Olympics due to China's censorship. As you say, this is not new. It would only isolate the Chinese even more. The amount of visibility that ordinary citizens will receive if the US press is there will far outweigh the 'statement' that the US would make by withdrawing. Everyone needs to stay in, and seize the opportunity to shine the spotlight on the Chinese government's continued control of access to information.
Hey Robert, before you start people what they should do, like pulling out the Olympics (which would destroy the dreams of many US athletes) why don't you start at home? Can you live without all your toys that are made in China? This is a very complex issue and while I agree that applying pressure and influence to promote freedom is good, you were showing a somewhat less-than-thoughtful reaction.
Chris Rossini
· 2 years ago
It's understandable to be reactionary, but foolish to take the course that says "OK China, you're taking away the freedoms of your consumers, so in response we're going to take away the freedoms of ours."
Seth E
· 2 years ago
@chris They're not taking away the freedom of their consumers, they're taking away the freedom of their people.
Mark Erikson
· 2 years ago
(cross-posted from the comments at TechCrunch)
I’m an American currently living in Beijing, and I can at least _partially_ confirm that something’s going on. I normally use google.com, and as of right now it still works fine. However, about 30 minutes ago search.live.com began redirecting to baidu. Youtube was working yesterday, but is now timing out. Also, the " 'feeds' blocked" story is somewhat true as well - I’ve been unable to load any redirect involving “feeds.feedburner.com” or “feeds.dzone.com” for the last few weeks (thank goodness for Google Reader).
That said, I think everyone needs to calm down a bit. It’s annoying and arrogant, yeah, but I doubt this is a permanent situation (it’s probably related to the current political meetings). Hang on a few days and see if it’s still happening, then figure out how to handle things.
Oh, and Mr. Scoble? As much as I dislike this move, there’s no way this is cause for the US to abandon the Olympics. That kind of reaction is way too drastic for this sort of situation. Save that in case of a sudden invasion of a certain offshore "province".
Tom
· 2 years ago
I just wanted to give kudos to Mikesax. The reality is that every time China does something like this the blogosphere is up and arms but I've never seen a dip in iPod Mini sales (made in China). Not to mention all the generic car chargers, headphone adapters, hands-free kits, etc...
I mean, Olympic athletes spend their whole lives waiting for what is usually their one and only chance to compete so to suggest depriving them of that to prove a point is pretty wrong. Especially when no one is willing to make even the smallest sacrifice in their own lives.
Anatoly
· 2 years ago
If abandoning the Olympics doesnt work, lets do this -- every time someone from China creates an account on facebook, they will automatically have 5000 friends! (Dalai Lama and Scoble will be amongst them)
Imagine the frustration of not being able to add more friends.
Yes, this is a silly comment, to a sillier post...
met
· 2 years ago
Shouldn't China have the freedom to do whatever it wants?
Robert, I emailed Rebecca last night when we posted and also looking forward to what she might find out.
Ron
· 2 years ago
Boycott the Olympics? Yeah this certainly rises to the level of the Soviets invading Afghanistan. Try to have some perspective
Patrick Dodds
· 2 years ago
"Based on public reports, AI [Amnesty International] estimated that at least 1,010 people were executed and 2,790 sentenced to death during 2006, although the true figures were believed to be much higher."
Clearly this is unimportant - we wouldn't want to upset the athletes would we? Heaven forbid.
Ron
· 2 years ago
@16 google doesn't confirm anything. They simply say "they've had numerous reports". Hardly a confirmation. We also get numerous reports of UFO and Elvis sightings. Point is it seems to be sporadic.
Patrick Dodds
· 2 years ago
Again, from Amnesty International's website:
Ye Guozhu was sentenced to four years' imprisonment in 2004 for his opposition to forced evictions in Beijing associated with construction for the Olympic games. It emerged during 2006 that Ye had been tortured while in detention. He was reportedly suspended from the ceiling by the arms and beaten repeatedly by police in Dongcheng district detention centre, Beijing, and also reportedly tortured in another prison in the second half of 2005.
C'mon, what's this compared with how many Golds you get?
Flemming Riis
· 2 years ago
-These companies are so dependent on these workers that they aren’t willing to pull out and punish the Chinese for actions like these.
look around your computer stuff and try to see how much if is made or assembled in china.
That China does what they want isnt exactly news.
The new and "improved" burma cut of themselv from the internet to stop new getting in and out thats more efficient than blocking search engines.
andsmit
· 2 years ago
I'm currently in South Africa, and http://search.yahoo.com redirects to baidu. Anyone know if this is related?
american gigolo
· 2 years ago
Bummer! Now how are we going to tell people in Chine how unhappy their lives are?
Ron
· 2 years ago
@20 I thought the suggestion was to boycott the olympics because of the Baidu issue. What does AI have to do with that?
Patrick Dodds
· 2 years ago
Maybe you're right and perhaps I'm off topic, but worsening state censorship, if this is indeed what has happened, isn't this of a piece with the Chinese authorities generally reckless disregard for human rights?
Ehab
· 2 years ago
Funky - more or less. Same as what happens in Bangladesh now and then :D
Duncan
· 2 years ago
Robert It wasn't just a couple of reports backing this (I chose to link out in the second post) but also various emails and comments on the first post as well.
BlogNation can debunk the story all they want but as I understand it the Great Firewall of China isn't in some single room blocking all traffic in China, censorship is often (or mostly) implemented at an ISP level. We regularly see stories about sites being block in particular cities in China only. If access isn't blocked in Beijing on a certain ISP this doesn't debunk the otherall premise: that the Chinese Government has ordered this action, it just means the message or action hasn't filtered down and implemented everywhere yet. There are too many reports from too many people to indicate that there is truth in this story.
Duncan
· 2 years ago
Just checking the comments on my post (just out of bed!): Google has confirmed the blocking according to Danny Sullivan.Sam can protest all he wants on blog nation but if Google says its true, who would you believe? http://searchengineland.com/071018-071828.php
@33 again this is why bloggers should not pass themselves off as reporters. The register is somply referring to the same google link sullivan links to. Which says they've had "nubetoisreports". That's NOT confirmation. We also have numberous reports that the story is bs. Mo one has confirmed anything
Duncan
· 2 years ago
Ron we had numerous emails and comments prior to the main story being published (ie my second one) that confirmed the validity, complete with screen shots. As I noted in comment 31, censorship is rarely uniform in China as a lot of it is done at ISP level so you'll often get stories of sites being blocked in Shanghai but not Beijing...well not immediately anyway. Balance of probabilities is that the story is correct based on the evidence at hand. So Sam Sethi has someone in Beijing who can still get on...we've got a list of commenters on TC and reports from other sites that people cant. Numbers don't lie (usually :-) )
maths
· 2 years ago
Robert, for a leader of the blogging community, it is disappointing that you have a childish, one-dimensional response, "NASDAQ should delist Baidu immediately in retaliation, if this is true. The USA should pull out of the Olympics next year. China is counting on that to make a ton of great PR and make China look like a world leader (which it is, but things like this set it way back in my mind). We shouldn’t enable the American media to be used with the Olympics if this turns out to be true."
1) “"NASDAQ should delist Baidu immediately in retaliation”. And exactly for what crime? NASDAQ has not de-listed Baidu for the more obvious crimes of blatant massive copyright infringement with it’s direct mp3 access machinations, and with American interests including Goldman Sachs involved, the duplicities are apparent.
2) “The USA should pull out of the Olympics next year….. We shouldn’t enable the American media to be used with the Olympics if this turns out to be true” Every wrong (or perceived wrong) by China has an obvious response with no sense of perspective whatsoever– boycott the Olympics. What a spoilt brat kind of response is that? The Olympics has simply turned out to be a stick to hit China with to make other nations force China to carry out their whims.
3) “China is counting on that to make a ton of great PR and make China look like a world leader (which it is, but things like this set it way back in my mind).” We all know that George Bush undertook a great PR and political stunt this week by giving China an obvious slap in the face. Why is it that I’m not expecting to see other world religion leaders feted equally and queing up to receive their Congressional Medals of honor. An obviously politically motivated act will be met with an equally political response, and I’m going to sit out that one, but we all know that politics can get ugly.
I work in China, and have been greatly inconvenienced by the numerous internet access problems not all of which I agree to, but please do have a sense of perspective and listen to more voices than that of Rebecca McKinnon and Global Voices Online who with all due respect, have their accompanying viewpoints as their functions and roles dictate. Comments like the following are just broad brushstrokes that do not befit the status of a respected Scoble blog. “This is a reminder that China is a communist country where the people aren’t really allowed to own things and where businesses don’t really need to play fair.”
Steve
· 2 years ago
I'm in Beijing and have been happily googling (and I use it a lot!) and haven't once been redirected to Baidu (or anywhere else).
However, for the past day or so, Youtube has been blocked. Due to the bandwith, it's not an easy thing to proxy around either. Tor might just do it, but it's going to be very slow.
fonstuinstra
· 2 years ago
The story is not true. I have no problem here in Shanghai and none of the China-based bloggers is reporting problems. What is blocked is youtube and people are very upset about that.
Ron
· 2 years ago
@35 That may be all well and good. It may be true some sites are getting redirected in some areas. But even as you state, some are not. So, we don't have definitive CONFIRMATION from Google that the Chinese Govt is deliberately redirecting searches to Baidu. What we have now is samplings of both happening. One could use the same logic to prove the existence of UFO's. Plenty of people say they've seen UFO's. Afterall, numbers don't lie (usually)
Duncan
· 2 years ago
http://news.google.com/?ned=us&ncl=1122330985 Is true, and I've received an email from someone in Beijing just now confirming it again for me. Google says it's true, and apparently Google.cn was being redirected as well.
Peter Murray
· 2 years ago
Up until just a few minutes ago, the courts in Turkey were blocking Scobleizer.
Ron
· 2 years ago
@40 you keep referencing the same articles wherein google says they've "received reports". With no attribution. I have no doubt you've received mails supporting your conspiricu. But you also must acknowledge you've received comments to the contrary. Unti
prokofy
· 2 years ago
I'm with Seth E on this one.
However, if you are going to boycott the Chinese Olympics, it should not only be over the Internet, but over the suppress of Tibet and the Uighurs; over the propping up of the murderous Sudanese regime's actions in Darfur and other regions; over Chinese obstruction of UN resolutions on Burma -- over many other things.
I personally would advocate not boycotting, but showing up and demonstrating, quietly or noisily, but attempting to be visible there while the spotlight is on China. Companies should not do business with China, however, as long as they pursue these policies. We should back the people in China who make efforts to reverse these oppressive practices.
The boycott of the Soviet Olympics in 1979 over the invasion of Afghanistan and the jailing of dissidents didn't have much effect on the regime but it did deprive it of legitimacy. I'm not certain that not boycotting and showing up and demonstrating would have been the better option.
Pedoz Maskadoz
· 2 years ago
I've blocked Scoble from my PC. Also removed it from My favorites,...wait it's never been there:-)
Jake Ludington
· 2 years ago
It's seems to be great sport to attack China's decisions about Internet access in China, but if you ask average people in China, they have more important concerns than whether or not they can Google for something. Some of the things I've observed people in China both want and could benefit from are all health related - cleaner air, potable water, private bathrooms in their residences, an OSHA-like standards body to set worker safety standards.
As I pointed out after attending DEMO China in 2006, television censorship in China is much more blatant. And local people are generally indifferent or know ways to get around blocked sites.
Michael Bailey
· 2 years ago
I personally don't care what China blocks - I don't live there, and I don't work there or have any business there.
What the hell else does one expect from a Communist country?
Whenever I see the headlines start with "China blocks...." I think, whoa, slow news day.
Michael Bailey
· 2 years ago
Oh yeah, so you wanna do something about it?
Start with this - quit buying "kids meals" at ALL of the fast-food places.
100% of the kids toys I have seen is made in China - do I really care that it isn't made in the USA?
Nope, I don't care - but THEY might if sales drop more than 70%.
All Comments
My blog is already frequently blocked inside China, so this is nothing new.
It saddens me that nothing ever gets done about it. I think there's very little public awareness as to just how public-awareness friendly china isn't.
So, a if-this-is-true rumor is a reminder, brilliant.
In fact, USA should pull out of the Olympics even if it is not true. China is a communist country because you say so. And of course US companies and media only "contribute" to Olympics--it's so not fair.
This proves how much a reactionary you are. I'm baffled people out there want to make friend with you. You deserve NONE.
It would only isolate the Chinese even more. The amount of visibility that ordinary citizens will receive if the US press is there will far outweigh the 'statement' that the US would make by withdrawing. Everyone needs to stay in, and seize the opportunity to shine the spotlight on the Chinese government's continued control of access to information.
I’m an American currently living in Beijing, and I can at least _partially_ confirm that something’s going on. I normally use google.com, and as of right now it still works fine. However, about 30 minutes ago search.live.com began redirecting to baidu. Youtube was working yesterday, but is now timing out. Also, the " 'feeds' blocked" story is somewhat true as well - I’ve been unable to load any redirect involving “feeds.feedburner.com” or “feeds.dzone.com” for the last few weeks (thank goodness for Google Reader).
That said, I think everyone needs to calm down a bit. It’s annoying and arrogant, yeah, but I doubt this is a permanent situation (it’s probably related to the current political meetings). Hang on a few days and see if it’s still happening, then figure out how to handle things.
Oh, and Mr. Scoble? As much as I dislike this move, there’s no way this is cause for the US to abandon the Olympics. That kind of reaction is way too drastic for this sort of situation. Save that in case of a sudden invasion of a certain offshore "province".
I mean, Olympic athletes spend their whole lives waiting for what is usually their one and only chance to compete so to suggest depriving them of that to prove a point is pretty wrong. Especially when no one is willing to make even the smallest sacrifice in their own lives.
(Dalai Lama and Scoble will be amongst them)
Imagine the frustration of not being able to add more friends.
Yes, this is a silly comment, to a sillier post...
Robert, I emailed Rebecca last night when we posted and also looking forward to what she might find out.
Clearly this is unimportant - we wouldn't want to upset the athletes would we? Heaven forbid.
Ye Guozhu was sentenced to four years' imprisonment in 2004 for his opposition to forced evictions in Beijing associated with construction for the Olympic games. It emerged during 2006 that Ye had been tortured while in detention. He was reportedly suspended from the ceiling by the arms and beaten repeatedly by police in Dongcheng district detention centre, Beijing, and also reportedly tortured in another prison in the second half of 2005.
C'mon, what's this compared with how many Golds you get?
look around your computer stuff and try to see how much if is made or assembled in china.
That China does what they want isnt exactly news.
The new and "improved" burma cut of themselv from the internet to stop new getting in and out thats more efficient than blocking search engines.
It wasn't just a couple of reports backing this (I chose to link out in the second post) but also various emails and comments on the first post as well.
BlogNation can debunk the story all they want but as I understand it the Great Firewall of China isn't in some single room blocking all traffic in China, censorship is often (or mostly) implemented at an ISP level. We regularly see stories about sites being block in particular cities in China only. If access isn't blocked in Beijing on a certain ISP this doesn't debunk the otherall premise: that the Chinese Government has ordered this action, it just means the message or action hasn't filtered down and implemented everywhere yet. There are too many reports from too many people to indicate that there is truth in this story.
http://searchengineland.com/071018-071828.php
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/18/china_h...
we had numerous emails and comments prior to the main story being published (ie my second one) that confirmed the validity, complete with screen shots. As I noted in comment 31, censorship is rarely uniform in China as a lot of it is done at ISP level so you'll often get stories of sites being blocked in Shanghai but not Beijing...well not immediately anyway. Balance of probabilities is that the story is correct based on the evidence at hand. So Sam Sethi has someone in Beijing who can still get on...we've got a list of commenters on TC and reports from other sites that people cant. Numbers don't lie (usually :-) )
"NASDAQ should delist Baidu immediately in retaliation, if this is true. The USA should pull out of the Olympics next year. China is counting on that to make a ton of great PR and make China look like a world leader (which it is, but things like this set it way back in my mind). We shouldn’t enable the American media to be used with the Olympics if this turns out to be true."
1) “"NASDAQ should delist Baidu immediately in retaliation”. And exactly for what crime? NASDAQ has not de-listed Baidu for the more obvious crimes of blatant massive copyright infringement with it’s direct mp3 access machinations, and with American interests including Goldman Sachs involved, the duplicities are apparent.
2) “The USA should pull out of the Olympics next year….. We shouldn’t enable the American media to be used with the Olympics if this turns out to be true”
Every wrong (or perceived wrong) by China has an obvious response with no sense of perspective whatsoever– boycott the Olympics. What a spoilt brat kind of response is that? The Olympics has simply turned out to be a stick to hit China with to make other nations force China to carry out their whims.
3) “China is counting on that to make a ton of great PR and make China look like a world leader (which it is, but things like this set it way back in my mind).”
We all know that George Bush undertook a great PR and political stunt this week by giving China an obvious slap in the face. Why is it that I’m not expecting to see other world religion leaders feted equally and queing up to receive their Congressional Medals of honor. An obviously politically motivated act will be met with an equally political response, and I’m going to sit out that one, but we all know that politics can get ugly.
I work in China, and have been greatly inconvenienced by the numerous internet access problems not all of which I agree to, but please do have a sense of perspective and listen to more voices than that of Rebecca McKinnon and Global Voices Online who with all due respect, have their accompanying viewpoints as their functions and roles dictate. Comments like the following are just broad brushstrokes that do not befit the status of a respected Scoble blog. “This is a reminder that China is a communist country where the people aren’t really allowed to own things and where businesses don’t really need to play fair.”
However, for the past day or so, Youtube has been blocked. Due to the bandwith, it's not an easy thing to proxy around either. Tor might just do it, but it's going to be very slow.
Is true, and I've received an email from someone in Beijing just now confirming it again for me. Google says it's true, and apparently Google.cn was being redirected as well.
However, if you are going to boycott the Chinese Olympics, it should not only be over the Internet, but over the suppress of Tibet and the Uighurs; over the propping up of the murderous Sudanese regime's actions in Darfur and other regions; over Chinese obstruction of UN resolutions on Burma -- over many other things.
I personally would advocate not boycotting, but showing up and demonstrating, quietly or noisily, but attempting to be visible there while the spotlight is on China. Companies should not do business with China, however, as long as they pursue these policies. We should back the people in China who make efforts to reverse these oppressive practices.
The boycott of the Soviet Olympics in 1979 over the invasion of Afghanistan and the jailing of dissidents didn't have much effect on the regime but it did deprive it of legitimacy. I'm not certain that not boycotting and showing up and demonstrating would have been the better option.
As I pointed out after attending DEMO China in 2006, television censorship in China is much more blatant. And local people are generally indifferent or know ways to get around blocked sites.
What the hell else does one expect from a Communist country?
Whenever I see the headlines start with "China blocks...." I think, whoa, slow news day.
Start with this - quit buying "kids meals" at ALL of the fast-food places.
100% of the kids toys I have seen is made in China - do I really care that it isn't made in the USA?
Nope, I don't care - but THEY might if sales drop more than 70%.