DISQUS

B · 2 years ago

Out of curiosity, which computer do you have?

Mike · 2 years ago

And Apple only has to make it work on their own hardware, while Windows has to work on thousands of different machines. Sometimes this little thing is forgotten by Mac lovers. But hey, I am biased because I make a living writing software for Windows ;)

jonas · 2 years ago

There's been reports of this (look in macrumors forums etc), basically try to let it sit for like an hour. During this time it might reboot itself. Otherwise, just try wait try wait try until it does.

Mike Woodhouse · 2 years ago

"Shark Jumping For Dummies", by Steve Jobs, anyone?

wonderplanned · 2 years ago

Thats a kernel panic you're looking at.

If it was what jonas is reporting, you would most likely be sitting at the Apple logo screen watching a spinning cog while the computer verified the disk.

Depending on the cause of the panic, you may be able to repair the issue using some standard troubleshooting tips:

Reset the internal NVRAM (press and hold Command, Option, P, R immediately after powering on until you hear the startup chime for the second time).

Are you able to start in Safe Boot (press and hold the Shift key at the startup chime)? Starting in Safe Boot forces a directory check, so will verify if there is a problem with your startup disk.

If you are still unable to boot, check the directory manually by running the Disk Utility from the OS X install CD. You will find it under the Utilities menu when you boot from the disk.

If the directory is sound but you still cannot boot, you may need to perform an Archive and Install preserving Users and Network Settings.

If it is not, you may need to perform an Erase and Install. If you need to do this and have a firewire cable, you may be able to back up important files to Patrick's machine using Target Disk Mode.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

wonderplanned. Resetting PRAM didn't work. I am trying to "safe boot" now.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

wonderplanned: safe boot worked. I'm seeing if things are going to reboot normally now.

I don't think I'd be so mad if I didn't see another Apple ad on TV tonight attacking Microsoft for not working well.

Judi Sohn · 2 years ago

I got bit by restart hell too, but with the 10.4.11 update (not ready for Leopard yet). I could only successfully boot into safe mode.

I got my machine back getting the larger Combo update (while in safe mode, I could go online with Safari via Ethernet only) and running that. Took at least 30 minutes for the machine to restart, but it finally did and it has been running perfectly ever since.

For 10.5.1, it may work for you to grab the stand-alone updater and run that.

First time in a long time that I had a bad Apple upgrade.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

wonderplanned: er, safe boot didn't work. My desktop image is there, but the machine is just sitting there now. Nothing else on screen. Sigh.

So, I'll leave it on and try again this weekend.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Update: I rebooted my machine one more time and it started working. Very weird. Sigh.

Ryo · 2 years ago

Sorry, but i never had problems with an Apple Computer.

I recently bought a new MacBook Pro 2,2GHZ, installed Leopard a few weeks ago, and made the update yesterday in 12 minutes. No problems, no glitches, everything is allright.

Before you upgrade to a new System you should ask yourself some questions:

*Is my computer too old for the update?
*Did I install ANY kind of non-Apple system expansions?
*Did I made major changes in the system setup (like changing directory structures etc.) ?
*Did I missed to read the f...... manual? (It says, for example, that it's not recommended to upgrade when you have File Vault enabled, neither Time Machine will work correctly)
Did I forget to make a backup before upgrading?

If you can answer any of this question with a "yes", well DON'T upgrade, until you solve the problem first.

BTW: I'm sure you tried that before, but you should BOOT with your Leopard-DVD by pressing C a logn time on startup, and then choose the Disk Utility from the Drop-Down-Menu. Then repair the rights (not the Volume). Try to boot your Mac.

Brian Lewis · 2 years ago

Have you booted from your OS installation DVD and let Disk Utility verify the disk?

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Brian and Ryo: I think you guys are funny. Sounds like Microsoft users -- we're used to this kind of hell. I expect better from Apple, especially when they are running ads saying they are better.

Brian Lewis · 2 years ago

Well, look at the bright side, no one has suggested you disable some extensions or rebuild the desktop file... Ahh the rapture of troubleshooting the classic Mac OS.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Brian: hey, I remember that stuff! That's why I switched to NT 3.5.1! Heh.

Brian Lewis · 2 years ago

Back before becoming a developer I was a service tech back when we had to actually fix CRT's (or at least get near high voltage). My personal favorite Apple Boner (TM) was the LCIII motherboard. If it's backup battery died, it would not POST - no chime, nothing. Apple's service manuals of the day for a failure like that was to replace the logic board.

Jeremy Vaught · 2 years ago

If your hardware keeps breaking, you can blame Apple, but you can't praise Microsoft for your Dell that doesn't break down.

Not exactly Apples and Apples, heh.

Dmitry Chestnykh · 2 years ago

Time to throw out your Mac and buy another one :)

Guy Pelletier · 2 years ago

Robert,
With today's throw away sociaty, I find it hard to find a quality product from the lecronics world. I just purchased an HP laptop, when I asked how long the warrenty was good for, they said 1 year. You have to stick with what you know works. I find it amusing that your fall back machine for Apple is a windows box. My fall back machine for my Windows is an older Windows.

Guy

Herschel · 2 years ago

Thanks Robert for letting me know that my faith in Windows is now VALIDATED!

Before updating it is usually a good idea to see what the update is for and what it affects.

The Golden Rule on ANY DESKTOP OS:
Get it working and leave it alone! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Allen Place · 2 years ago

Make sure you run Disk Utility on the startup disk to verify the volume. I had the same problem but the startup disk needed to be reformated. It would not verify or be repaired.

Michael Markman · 2 years ago

Robert, better ≠ perfect. Expectation of perfection is the penalty of being pretty darn good.

I was at Apple back in the early nineties, when PowerBook was flourishing, John Sculley initiated a project to explore whether the PowerBook brand might be used on a line of Wintel computers. This wasn't today's reality of Mac OS on Intel, with an option to also run Windows under Boot Camp or Parallels. Back then it would have been two separate product lines a Mac PowerBook (68K processor) or a Windows PowerBook (X86)

Would the market accept a non-Mac PowerBook? Apple went so far as to prototype a Wintel PowerBook take it to focus groups. Looked identical to the Mac version, but ran Windows.

The reaction: People were very interested in a Windows-flavored PowerBook from Apple... until they heard that it was nothing more than a Windows computer with an Apple brand slapped on. They expected more: They wanted a little Apple magic that would somehow improve the experience of running Windows.

Glad you're running again.

PS: I've got the updates downloaded. I'm a restart away from either sharing or escaping your woes. If you don't hear from me soon, send a rescue party.

Ruben Schade · 2 years ago

Ironic, the only machines that give my family grief are the Windows ones. Personally I buy Macs and DIY machines to run FreeBSD and KDE. From my experience, I wouldn't let any of my machines touch anything later than Windows 2000, and even then the installs are securely tucked away in VMs where I can quickly delete and restore them when they inevitably trip and collapse on themselves.

I guess it just shows how much personal experience affects future purchasing decisions, as you would expect.

Plus I love Objective C so Apple is naturally a more friendly platform!

HG · 2 years ago

I'm running hundreds of Macs for years. When reboot problems have occurred there's usually been a bigger hardware problem: motherboard, bad HD, bad memory.

These have been rare though. My customers wouldn't put up with it if it were as common as Scoble is portraying it.

And to rail at Apple marketing is puerile. It is hardware. The cosmic rays even have an influence on a Macintosh.

Maybe Scoble should just quite using Macs so I don't have to hear whine about it anymore.

scott · 2 years ago

I had a similar issue when upgrading my 17" MacBook Pro to OS X 10.4.11. However, the solution appeared to be to plug in an ethernet cable after the install and before the reboot. When I tried to startup in safe mode with only wifi access to the net I repeatedly had no luck getting the desktop to show up.

Michael Markman · 2 years ago

The late House speaker, Tip O'Neill, said, "all politics is local." Same goes for updates. Mine installed with no problems. For me, Apple is 100% successful. Robert had a problem. For him, Apple is 100% "screw you."

Mark Evans · 2 years ago

What do you mean - the Mac's not perfect?! As the Mac moves into the mainstream, the demands on it to just work become more demanding. I blogged on this reality today.

scooby carolan · 2 years ago

take out any 3rd party RAM you installed. It is bad and thats why it won't boot. This happens all the time with bad RAM chips

PXLated · 2 years ago

My brother called in a panic last night...was installing Leopard, realized he'd not backed up so quit the install mid-stream somehow and for some reason (probably involved beer) and was then getting the kernal panic with the DVD stuck in the drive.
Had him shutdown, start up from the DVD, repair permissions, check the drive and then archive/install. All went well at that point.
Other than that bonehead move I've had 6-7 uneventful installs/upgrades.
----------
Love you Apple, love you Apple, love you Apple ;-)

Ben Ames · 2 years ago

Well maybe the best thing for you to do is wipe the Mac OS off and run Vista.
Go ahead, I dare you. :)

Brandon · 2 years ago

You sound like you're throwing a bit of a tantrum. Sorry to hear this happened but let's count the number of times my friend with vista has had to do a complete clean reinstall since he installed it 6 months ago... 1... 2.... 3.

I hope some troubleshooting like PXLated suggest works.

Mister Ron · 2 years ago

If you have the nerve you can try this:

Boot up the machine holding down Command-s. This will boot you into an all text screen.

At the prompt, type fsck -f
(be sure to put a space before the "-f")

Let it run through it's course. If it tells you all is okay, try shutting down and restarting. If it tells you it made repairs, run it again for good measure. If it tells you it can't fix things, then call Apple, you probably have major corruption that is unfixable, or a hardware problem.

something2chewon · 2 years ago

Holy COW! awesome rant Robert! you should have seen me throw my Newton across a room back in the day. Anyway nice rant well done. Apple seems to be the deaf and blind maker of fine violins.

Tom Raftery · 2 years ago

Hey Robert,

it is unfortunate you had a problem with your update.

I was more lucky. My update to Leopard fixed two issues I had with 10.4 and my update to 10.5.1 fixed a further issue I had so overall I'm delighted with Leopard and this update.

My Vista experience has been awful. Within 10 minutes of running it I found a bug which Microsoft were unaware of! It still runs dog slow (on a new dual core Vaio with 2gb ram) and Microsoft Support gave up trying to fix one of the problems I was having with it. Seriously. They emailed me and said sorry, we can't fix it!

I'm sure by SP2 Vista will be reasonably ok. Leopard though is already fantastic on 10.5.1

Emily Weise · 2 years ago

"Robert, better ≠ perfect. Expectation of perfection is the penalty of being pretty darn good."

Agreed.

Robert, you're part of the reason that people refer to fans of the Macintosh as zealots -- you're screaming in public about something that is, as far I can tell, pretty freaking rare, and you have a very far reach. So people come in and try to point out why this might be happening, and that's where the zealotry comes in.

I had an 800Mhz G3 iBook as my only machine for five years and I never had problems with it. Now I have a MacBook Pro and I have had no problems with it. I can't imagine for a second that anything Dell or HP has to offer could be better.

macbeach · 2 years ago

It's so touching to watch Apple lovers jump to the companies defense.

I consider myself fairly neutral (at least between Apple and Windows based machines) but I have to give a slight edge to Apple and it's users. If it's hardware, it's hardware, but OS X is far less complex from a diagnostic point of view than Windows. I know people who are like bulldogs when it comes to latching on to a software problem until it is fixed, but they are reduced to tears trying to figure out why their home (Windows) machines exhibit unusual behavior. They used to ask me, but I stopped helping them when I stopped using Windows myself. Now I just say "uh-huh" a lot as I listen to their tales of woe.

@23: I love my Powerbook. I probably won't buy another Apple computer though, or go to the latest version of the OS. It was clear (to me at least) that the switch to Intel wasn't so much about on chip versus another as it was about not wanting to fight the commodity PC market on price any more. They couldn't beat the commodity PC so now they are one, along with all the mediocrity that that entails.

Maybe they've seen the web-centric future and realize that the details of what computer you use (hardware or OS) won't matter so much. Or maybe the artsy designers at Apple would just as soon produce handbags as gadgets. As a brand the company has a future, but as a tech company I think they are overvalued (both stock and otherwise). Where is the Apple server push? Why is their online offering "iForgetWhatItsCalled" so lame? And what happened to all the cooperation they were going to have with the Open Source community?

All I know is that Linux keeps getting better, the others keep getting worse. I have no trouble deciding which elevator I want to be on.

Northern · 2 years ago

I've owned more Macs than the average Mac person over the years. Both desktops and laptops. I've used every Mac OS from the 6 days to now. I can honestly say I think the UI is nice, but that's about it. There are some programs for the Mac that are just gorgeous: BBEdit, OmniWeb are my two faves.

But, Apple's are more expensive for what you DO get. I switched back to PCs with Vista and haven't looked back. Some say I'm nuts. Maybe I am. MS, while a monopoly, does not have vendor lock-in like Apple does since they don't make both hardware and software.

Apple has become cocky since they've gotten bigger and more popular. Their hardware is no better than what's on a comparable PC. I know. I've done plenty of autopsies on Macs over the years.

For my everyday use I went out and bought a cheapo Gateway laptop with 2GB RAM. I bought my own copy of Vista as I hate OEM trialware. I have Intel chips throughout. My friend's Mac has roughly the same specs but is no better, no faster. I boot up faster than he does. My Opera launches faster than his. My Firefox launches faster than his. Read time and disk burning is faster on mine. He's hating life for spending $2k+ on a machine that is no better than a $500 Gateway. His looks better than mine, but I'm not using mine to win girls or looks. I use it to surf the net and handle the thousands upon thousands of digital photos I have and burn to disk. I still don't trust external drives enough to buy into them. The thing about backups is, you need redundancy.

I'm fully convinced after years of being in the IT industry that what makes a computer truly viable is two things (assuming recent hardware):

1. as much RAM as it can hold
2. a fast Internet connection.

Everything else is just preference.

Andy Beal · 2 years ago

Robert, apparently you're still nothing but a "Microsoft Shill" - http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2007/11/apples-...

You have to admire the passion of the Apple community!

Alan · 2 years ago

Just bought a new MacBook Pro. Did nothing to it but ran software update and installed the accumulated updates. It rebooted without a problem.

Obviously you have installed some software that has violated Apple's software guidelines and screwed up something, somewhere.

Not Apple's fault, I'm afraid. It's your fault, or more correctly the fault of the scabby, offending software that you installed.

And you wonder why Apple want's to keep the iPod and iPhone as closed systems.

Northern · 2 years ago

Robert,

Not that you need defending, but surely you know that Macs have the worst type of fanboys in IT. I know. I've worked and work with them. Mac fanboys perpetuate the "my s**t doesn't stink" attitude by showing off their overly-expensive products with hardware/software vendor lock-in.
Fanboys sell the entire idea of superiority when none exists.

I'm platform agnostic. I use what works in a given situation. Period.

Lee · 2 years ago

Tom,

I had a customer with a new Vaio who also experience dog slow performance under Vista, but it turned out to be a hardware problem. You might want to give sony a call and see if it's one of their models that has been giving them problems.

Robert,

While I am an apple fan, you are running into the same problem now on Apple that we also run into on a windows box: the lack of informative feedback from our computers when something goes awry. In the never ending battle to beautify our "desktops", valuable diagnostic information has been lost. And, error messages don't get the attention they deserve. We're not all stupid. We don't want to just "erase and re-install". We want to fix the problem so it doesn't occur again.

I can also empathize with your hardware failures. While I haven't had one in years, my mother in law's ibook had to go back 3 times. Twice because of problems created at the repair depot.

So, as they say, "I feel your pain brother"

mj · 2 years ago

Updates tend to tickle problems that are existing.

Pop in your Restore DVD. Select Archive Install. And then run your updates. You won't lose any data.

As for hardware failures. Um, I see more than my fair share of Apple failures but I have to raise an eye when I see two different model machines in the same household developing the same fault...

..may not be the Mac hardware?

mj · 2 years ago

We've not LOST diagnostic information. It's there if you hold down Apple V or look in the system logs.

Yes, it's a pretty machine but it's also hardcore.

Mark · 2 years ago

I can't tell which you are more upset about.

A.) Your computer is having technical issues
B.) Apple does not think enough of your stature to offer you free stuff
C.) Apple has tv commercials that are not 100% in line with your experiences (unlike say, beer or car commercials which accurately portray the benefits of buying their product)

Mike Peter Reed · 2 years ago

Why not downgrade to XP?

Eric Coleman · 2 years ago

I installed the 10.5.1 updated on my macbook pro, and every time it restarted, it showed me the new mac registration screen, no matter what I did.

All I can say is thank god for Archive & Install, because time machine effed up my backup

Ted · 2 years ago

A faulty Mac is much easier to fix than a faulty Windows box. Most of the time when something goes wonky, it's because...

1) Hardware Failure - ie, the hard drive is dying. These problems are really specific to Apple, as all Apple does is use the same parts everybody else does, and no component is impervious to failure

2) 3rd party system app/tool/utility that suddenly doesn't play nice with your system. You can't really blame Apple for that.

Also, you might find it helpful when you hit these kinds of issues to describe what (if anything) you had just done (System upgrade? Installed a new utility?). People smarter than you (or I, for that matter) can use that to usually deduce what is wrong and how to fix it.

Telling Apple to "screw you" because 1) their stuff is wigging out on you and 2) they didn't give you a "evaulation machine" (boo freakin' hoo!) just makes you sound childish and immature. If I was Apple, I wouldn't give you a free machine either.

BTW - I'm writing this on my recently replaced Macbook Pro, that Apple replaced for my faulty unit that was 18 months. Get Applecare - it pays!

david · 2 years ago

Remember the days when you were shilling for Microsoft and the company kept delivering those service packs that exploded computers and especially servers? Why weren't you yelling Screw You Microsoft?

And since you obviously continued to have computer access, did you stop to think that heading over to Apple's Support Discussion Group might be a good idea? Last night I saw at least 3 different threads where this problem was discussed and (often) successful solutions presented. But no - you just had to throw a blog tantrum.

Get over yourself and grow up!

Brit · 2 years ago

I think Apple's build quality has gone down since the switch to Intel. Not that it's the Intel chip's fault. It just seems that Apple is using cheaper materials and less reliable hardware now. I know my friend's MacIntel laptops have broken down multiple times while my PPC PowerMac from 2002 "just keeps going". :)

Of course, the funny thing about this particular blog entry is that Apple used BSOD icons to represent Windows network shares, yet now Robert's Macs don't even boot? No company is perfect, but Apple made themselves a huge target for criticism over any and every problem with that BSOD icon stunt.

PooPsTech · 2 years ago

Well, I just finished updating my MacBook Pro and My Mini and I have had no problem with any of the updates. That is not just me, since 99% of the people had similar experiences. Unlucky, I guess. Best test will be: Install Leopard again from your original disk and before you get any update test the machine. If all is well, then apply the updates with no mods to kernel and no Apps installed to the machine and test the machine. if all ok, then it means that hardware is OK and your configuration was bad. Good luck.

JudgeFire · 2 years ago

I've run into kernel panics on a mac only via some USB or Firewire problems. If the problem returns, try detaching any external devices for the duration of the startup.

Glenn Fleishman · 2 years ago

That's not ironic. Irony requires you to have the opposite of what you expect, such as, "It's ironic that I dropped $2,000 on an Apple computer only to discover that it wasn't a collection of electronics, but rather an apple ingeniously carved into the form of a computer."

Poetic justice is sometimes meant when the term irony is used, such as Steve Jobs being stopped by a cop with a speed gun that's running Windows Mobile.

In this case, you're just saying you want the opportunity to turn down hardware from a company that doesn't bother to offer it to you. I believe that term is sour grapes.

Ben · 2 years ago

Increasingly clear with Apple's popular resurgence in recent years is the philosophical difference between their and Microsoft's OS upgrades. Microsoft bends over backwards to make sure all (or almost all) older apps work on the new platform, even if that requires software workarounds for specific apps, and it comes at the cost of accrued legacy gunk in the API and the software. Apple has never particularly cared about maintaining app compat outside of some critical ones like MS Office and the Adobe line, and that has enabled them to move forward fairly quickly and without carrying baggage forward.

The interesting bit is that there's a inverted sense of blame for the negative side-effects. Windows users bitch about Microsoft when an upgrade acts funny due to system-level software hacks. Apple users bitch about other users having "unauthorized" software installed, and attribute zero blame to Apple. Same exact thing, different crowd reactions. Problem is, Apple kids, that users don't always know when they install an app that it's doing particularly nasty system-level munging. This is ever more true. Expecting users to know this, and choose to upgrade or not accordingly, is silly. Upgrades are supposed to work, period, and it will be interesting to see if Apple will lose consumer faith over time if OS upgrades keep being allowed to bork peoples' machines.

Jansperus · 2 years ago

I always hear anecdotes about how somebody's Mac, whether PowerPC or Intel, has millions of problems and every Mac they've ever had has had millions of problems. I also hear the same thing about PCs. Then I hear how somebody's Mac or PC has never so much had an application crash in their entire lifetime. I ignore them all as they're all childish fanboys who make a piece of hardware into a religion. I think it comes down to luck. I've had one problem with my current MacBook Pro while my iBook had no problems (except a dead pixel). I haven't had any problems with Leopard (though it honestly doesn't feel as stable as Tiger was, but I understood that risk when getting Leopard).

Martin Pilkington · 2 years ago

@Brit: Since the Intel switch Apple has gained a hell of a lot more users. A problem like many you see online could affect 0.0001% of users but when they're selling 2 million Macs a quarter that's 200 people with the problem.

@Robert: Yes, Apple gets a bit full of itself at times, but as with the above problem it's simply a matter of scale. I've seen two Vista laptops which have both blue screened, but from that I can't say that every Vista laptop blue screens (both were most likely issues with overheating). How old is your MBP and what has it been in for repair for? If you're having a lot of problems in a short space of time then you can start inquiring about whether you can get a replacement.

grrrr · 2 years ago

What was that so called journalist saying? "Are you acting in a kind of sort of a monopoly way." Was that really a journalist or maybe a dangerous lunatic? I think it was prudent of the pr person or was it e security person to put her self between the danger and Phil Schiller.
Also
"What’s ironic is lots of other computer companies would LOVE to give me free stuff (I don’t take it) but Apple is the only company that’s never raised a PR finger to help me." .Good for apple How many bloggers are as conscience as you claim to be?

felix · 2 years ago

Wait, did you just yell at Apple for not offering to give you free stuff that you wouldn't accept anyway? And then complain that you actually had to buy a computer, as though that were unusual for you?

I'm sorry that you're having computer issues, I've had some too - but in my experience I've had far fewer with osx than I do when I'm running windows. I guess your mileage has already varied. :)

Jeff Ventura · 2 years ago

Robert, I suspect you know that your reaction to this isn't exactly the most reasonable.

Mike · 2 years ago

So ...

When your Win 3.1 / NT / Win 95 / 98 / ME (the HORROR!) / XP / Vista machines crapped out, did you take a hissy fit then too? Because that certainly seems to be what you're doing here. We've all had bad hardware experiences - Apple and PC users alike. So you're upset that Apple won't give you free stuff and you had to pay for it? Poor Rob - that's not a very good way to gain sympathy from your readers.

By any chance: you don't run a Logitech mouse and have the Logitech control software enabled do you? Logitech did some bad things with their drivers on OS X that caused problems with Leopard...

danieleran · 2 years ago

Wow, eloquent! No doubt you've honed your intellect from all those years at Microsoft. That would also explain the expectation that vendors send you crap for free so you can talk about how great it is. Incidentally, the reason why Apple "ironically" doesn't throw its crap at you for free is because it doesn't need to rely on PR/BS to sell its products.

Apple is currently offering products people actually want to buy, regardless of what the pundits are blathering. The problem for you is that better products don't necessarily solve all of your problems.

Since you don't know what's wrong or why, your "screw you" tantrum doesn't really say anything about Apple or its products, but really more about yourself. Reactionary fits aren't that impressive unless you're the CEO of Microsoft.

A better approach might be to discover what the actual problem is, and then point out an actual fault that needs to be addressed. Dramatically throwing up your hands and rushing to "blog" about your frustrations and why they are the fault of Apple before you even know what's happening is just a personal embarrassment for your qualifications as a thinker.

God of Biscuits · 2 years ago

When are you going to take your computers in for service to get the comma key fixed?

Beerzie · 2 years ago

My mac works great, too, but what use is that to you? When something doesn't work, that sucks. Of course, I'm on my second Thinkpad in three months (the first of which fried two hard drives and refused to reload the OS). Every other Thinkpad I've had worked great. Bad hardware happens, dude.

All I can say is that if you resent Apple and don't like your Mac, why not just stick to your Windows machines. No one else should/would care.

Brit · 2 years ago

"Mac fanboys perpetuate the “my s**t doesn’t stink” attitude by showing off their overly-expensive products with hardware/software vendor lock-in."

Yeah, I noticed this "show off" attitude when it seemed that every iPhone owner posed for pictures with their iPhone. LOL

Two prime examples from Scoble's own blog:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scobleizer/674803162/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scobleizer/919009940/

Pretty funny. But also kind of scary!!

Tom · 2 years ago

Yes, I know you've never had problems with Microsoft's software, or anybody else's hardware.

Yes, we know you're The Great Scoble, and everybody should be begging you to run their stuff and having their representatives follow behind you to make sure your every whim is catered to.

Whatever.

As for Apple's "controlling PR machine", are you insane? The moron brought up a question of a non-existent monopoly which Schiller did answer (and was polite enough to point out that the reporter only asked again only because he didn't get the answer he wanted). Exactly how long should Apple have let him remain asking the same question, Robert? How long would Microsoft? How long would any company? Hell, he asked it solely for the purpose of getting the reaction on film (which was obvious) so he could put it on YouTube and have knee-jerkers like you think it's "newsworthy" enough to link to. Looks like it worked. So much for relying on alleged "A-list" bloggers separating the wheat from the chaff.

This blog has become little more than a point from which you try to show people how cool, hip, now, and happening you are, and apparently to take pot shots at companies you're pissed at because they don't recognize your greatness and offer you free stuff. Ooooh, you had to actually BUY your Apple hardware. How tragic for you. The rest of us, of course, get ours for free.

a random John · 2 years ago

Robert,

You seem to be oversimplifying Apple's marketing message. I take them to be mocking Vista for onerous hardware requirements and the fact that people are downgrading to XP because once they get Vista installed they continue to have problems. You seem to think the message is that it is impossible to have problems on a Mac.

In any case I'm sorry you've had problems. I hope that you don't feel the desire to downgrade.

Brit · 2 years ago

Martin Pilkington, I understand that with more users come more reports of problems, but doesn't that apply to Microsoft 10-fold? (I think Windows has ~90% share and Mac OSX has ~7%? So Windows has more than 10 times the userbase.)

And even so, you do have to admit that Apple made themselves a target for criticism with the BSOD PR stunt, right? ;)

I'll just stay with my trusty PPC PowerMac and Panther for the foreseeable future. I simply trust it more than the Intel Macs (and way more than Dell notebooks which are pieces of trash; had two die on me way before their time).

Furley · 2 years ago

Ironic, eh? I don't think you know what words mean.

Mike Daisey · 2 years ago

Glenn is right--this is just sour grapes that you don't get free gear, which is deeply unattractive. If you want anyone to take you seriously as a tech pundit you are going to have to learn to think before you type.

annieh · 2 years ago

I've bought 3 Apple products, all of which had to be replaced by the manufacturer. My return stories are far worse than Jarvis' Dell Hell - including a trip in person to the 5th Ave Apple store - WITH AN APPOINTMENT - where the so-called genius bar turned away my iPod. "You have to file online and MAIL it back." Huh? But I made an appointment. I'm standing right here. Apple blows.

Unbroken · 2 years ago

On the rare occasions when I've had legitimate problems with my Macs, it has always been 100% due to my having done something unholy.

Some third-party developers are egregious sinners and should be banished, but that is for Apple to decide.

As a developer and linux nerd, it is exceedingly easy for me to sin all over a Mac. And despite my sinner status, I have always been able to enlist The Google's help in gaining salvation for my damned machines.

But seriously, you can't dispite the rock-solid nature of Apple hardware and software. To suggest otherwise is folly. I laugh, ha-ha!

Unbroken · 2 years ago

s/dispite/dispute/

hdiwan · 2 years ago

I had a few problems with this upgrade as well. The worst part... Apple's knowledge base is well-hidden.

DBL · 2 years ago

It's kind of annoying when some big blogger assumes that because his personal computer isn't working, Apple's products are substandard and they're going to hell. I mean, how big an ego does it take? 'When Scoble's machine is down, it is a dark day for Apple.'

This is the very definition of anecdotal evidence. The fact that the anecdote in question happens to be Robert Scoble only increases the decibel of the whine, not the validity of the criticism. Check any customer service/repair survey in the industry, and Apple comes out on top. Evidence-wise, that's worth more than all the anecdotes in the world.

Whether on the Windows side or in OS X, a single tale of malfunction and woe followed by a series of comments where various people take up this story in service of their preconceived notion, is basically a worthless exercise.

But I hope your Mac stays healthy. If I were you I would take the opportunity to back up everything on it as long as it's working. Hard drives are not magically immune to corruption and failure no matter which logo they've been slapped with.

beet · 2 years ago

So, can I have it then? If you're so disappointed with your Macs, why not put them on ebay and buy a Dell already instead of crying about how you had to actually pay for it in the first place instead of having it given to you buy Apples's PR? I might buy it from you if it didn't have that blue monster sticker on it... maybe that jinxed it.

drtofu · 2 years ago

I had a similar problem. Hard crash on restart. The problem? The disk needed to be repaired first. I booted up with the Leopard disc, used Disk Utility, repaired the disk, and voila, it's working.

Karim · 2 years ago

Mac: "Hello, I'm a Mac."

PC: "And I'm a PC."

Mac: "Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a Mac."

[PC stares at Mac]

Mac: "Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a Mac."

[PC walks over to Mac. He grabs Mac by the shoulders, shakes him roughly]

Mac: "Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello..."

[PC slaps Mac in the face]

Mac: "Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello..."

PC [to himself]: Man, Scoble is not going to like *this*...

steve riggins · 2 years ago

haha so you don't get a FREE machine, have some issues and SCREW YOU. I think that is where we'll leave it.

Steve, who pays for his machines too. And they work.

Bryan · 2 years ago

"What’s ironic is lots of other computer companies would LOVE to give me free stuff (I don’t take it) but Apple is the only company that’s never raised a PR finger to help me. Instead I feel so honored to spend my money on this crap. Why? Just to have a shiny machine?"

I'm ignoring the rest of your post. Sorry you're having issues, but I'm sure you'll love all the traffic an Apple bashing article will get you. I'm concentrating on the quote above.

Where do you get off? Who the hell do you think you are, that companies PR departments should be chomping at the bit to give you free stuff? You're an irrelevant blogger. Get over yourself. You are not a celebrity. You don't matter. I've been leaning towards unsubscribing for a long time, thanks for pushing me over the edge.

RipRagged · 2 years ago

Yup. If your steak comes out medium instead of medium rare, blame Apple. Weight gain? Must be a flaw in the OS. If it rains, it must be Leopard.

Damn, man. You're using a computer. They crash. I've used Macs for 20 years. They crash from time to time. That's reality. Sometimes it's Apple's fault; sometimes it isn't.

If you're working with a new, clean machine or doing a complete disk erase and install and having problems, then blame Apple. For any other installation, it's quite possible that some third party code is the cause of your problem.

Even if Apple really is to blame for your problem, to curse Apple when you have no frigging idea what caused your problem is irresponsible behavior for anyone who wants to be taken seriously as a tech journalist.

Grow up.

Jared · 2 years ago

I've been on a Macbook Pro for 2 years and have never had any issues of any kind with my Mac. Sorry that you're having trouble, but the inherent complexity of computers, no matter the manufacturer, guarantees that there will be some bad eggs. It's kind of juvenile to yell and scream about it, especially given your high profile as a blogger.

Just sayin'.

Esther · 2 years ago

Good to see there was a user there (wonderplanned , within 35 minutes!) to steer you in the right direction.

Of course this had to turn into another Mac/Windows slug fest. *sigh*

I hate it when something goes wrong with one of my Macs. It doesn't happen too often, but it happens. After all, they're (just) machines.

I also hate it when something goes wrong with one of my Windows, Linux or Irix boxes...

Webomatica · 2 years ago

Take advantage of the Apple Store Genius Bar.

Keith Simmons · 2 years ago

Guess you're taking that old job back. Screw you Scoble.

Jim Rudolf · 2 years ago

Can,t say I disagree with you but your heavy handedness, isn't going to make you many friends and is not going to solve the problem.

trademark registration · 2 years ago

Apple users are a really loyal bunch, but sometimes I wonder why--everyone I know seems to have major issues with their Apple computers, and yet they all keep going back, buying the latest version of this or that. It's really strange.

Adam Sweet · 2 years ago

I'm always surprised when "tech people" and "tech bloggers" like you and Arrington, for example, admit to the world they are users of Mac products. There is something definitely "un-tech" about Mac, wouldn't you agree? The idea that you can open the hood and look around in a Mac is unheard of.

David · 2 years ago

$50 says it's something you added to the machine.

Panics like this are low level, very often hardware.

- Did you add 3rd party RAM? Remove it and test again.

If you boot from the DVD and still get the panics, memory is a good thing to check.

- Have you installed 3rd party kernal extensions (kext)? Uninstall and test again.

If booting into Safe Mode does not panic, third party system extensions are a possible cause.

Jesse Stay · 2 years ago

I've had nothing but issues with the latest update since I installed. My MacBook randomly BSOD's (black screen of death) almost regularly, now. My network keeps going down as well, and all I can do to fix it is reboot the machine. I'm getting *extremely* frustrated with Apple right now. I was expecting this update to make my Leopard problems better, not worse!

Tony · 2 years ago

4:45am:
"Screw you Apple."

5:59am:
"Update: I rebooted my machine one more time and it started working. Very weird. Sigh."

Comment#11 burried in 55 comments, yet the author sees no need to update the main article. Hey guy, this is not print media that needs a next day correction. Put your update up front in your post (or shameless grip about not getting free Apples)

John Whiteside · 2 years ago

Good lord, grow the hell up. Yes, it's very frustrating when your computer is broken, but going from that to "Apple sucks! Waah! and they don't give me free stuff" makes you sound like a four year old.

Of course, you could do sensible things, like try booting from your install disks, etc. - you know, troubleshoot the problem, that kind of thing? But I guess it's more fun to blog about it.

I guess we can all be glad that at least you didn't share on video.

George · 2 years ago

I recently bought a Gateway c-140x a convertible notebook. With a 2.0 Gig core 2, 2 gigs memory and 120 gig HD the ATI 2300 HD chipset a 12 cell and 6 cell LI-ION batteries, blue tooth, santa rosa chip set, wireless a,b,g and a 14.1 inch wide screen. Since you can *gasp* take out the optical drive which is a dual layer burner and put in a 6 cell battery in its place, so you can have power for up to EIGHT HOURS with 2 batteries in the machine at the same time. Just amazing. I paid $2200 including tax. I totally love it. *Every* game I throw at it runs awesomely. This is replacing a powerbook g4 that is nearly 5 years old and now dead. Vista on new modern hardware is awesome. I have had only a few issues with running older software on it, which I quickly solved. It's been fun to use and a pleasure to work with. My daughter who is 5 uses the stylus for playing her educational games and practices handwriting writing on it, since you can draw directly on the screen. The handwriting recognition is just simply amazing and 99% accurate.

My friend who installed 10.5 is having the same kind of Kernel Panic attack on his intel based macbook pro.

Apple has dropped the ball. Apple not only makes nothing I want. It's too expensive, over priced under performing, glitzy crap.

I am done defending apple. I used their products for more than 10 years. But I am now done and have bought a windows machine to prove it. And you know what really amazing? It's really really well done. Everything on that machine actually works as advertised the first time I used it.

As a side note I bought My Gateway C-140x on October 4th 2007. You now cannot get the T7300 2 gig chip as an option it now only goes to 1.6!? The highest it offered was 2.4. I have no idea why gateway decided to limit the options on the machine. Since I tricked mine out totally. And got a number of discounts since I used a person to create the order and they were very helpful. I got my computer configured as ordered down to the preinstall software without flaw. In guess how long? 7 days. It was perfectly done. I'm happy with what I paid and what I got for that. Apple is gonna fall if it keeps this up.

joe perro · 2 years ago

Robert!

You are acting like a child. Go to your room and time out for 30 minutes.

Then come back and apologize for your ranting and raving.

Then call Apple support for help. Be nice to them. If you are obnoxious or mean to them, they will not help you. And guess what??? You will not deserve help. No one like spoiled fat boys who are bullies.

Neil Anderson · 2 years ago

Movie at 11.

Jim Robertson · 2 years ago

You have to be the BIGGEST baby in the world! Waaaa!

Blake · 2 years ago

Irony: Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs:


So...it is EXPECTED that Apple should give you free stuff?

Baratunde Thurston · 2 years ago

Robert, you REALLY need to see my video on this very subject. I guarantee sympathy and much laughter. It's a comedic video representation of the flame war i inadvertently started when I dared to speak about problems with my mac

"I hate the smugness of apple"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbLeFNjYeTs

Matt McLean · 2 years ago

I have a 15' Macbook Pro. It has been in the shop 4 times and needs to go in again. The fan sounds like a leaf blower. The machine is a joke and Apple people have done nothing to help other than to say "take it to the Genius Bar". I got so frustrated that I sent Steve Jobs an email. I was pleased that their "executive support" read the email and responded to me with a phone call. That is where the customer service ended... go to the Genius Bar.

Peter Graves · 2 years ago

Robert, surely you live near an apple store. hop in the car go in and ask the genius to fix it. You should be fixed up in a jiffy. What you are describing is probably some kind of software issue with stuff that you added to your computer, no big deal.... but, probably easier if you just take it to the apple store.

While you are there you may want to buy one of their little cards that gets you 12 visits for 100.00 to learn whatever you don't know on the mac, 1 on 1 with a genius. I'd bet you a big coffee it would eliminate your problems in the future.. and you can take your child along with you.

Jesse Endahl · 2 years ago

As for the actual question the reporter brought up, Steve Jobs himself has already shared his thoughts on the question in his open letter titled "Thought on Music."

The relevant bit:

"Some have argued that once a consumer purchases a body of music from one of the proprietary music stores, they are forever locked into only using music players from that one company. Or, if they buy a specific player, they are locked into buying music only from that company’s music store. Is this true? Let’s look at the data for iPods and the iTunes store – they are the industry’s most popular products and we have accurate data for them. Through the end of 2006, customers purchased a total of 90 million iPods and 2 billion songs from the iTunes store. On average, that’s 22 songs purchased from the iTunes store for each iPod ever sold.

Today’s most popular iPod holds 1000 songs, and research tells us that the average iPod is nearly full. This means that only 22 out of 1000 songs, or under 3% of the music on the average iPod, is purchased from the iTunes store and protected with a DRM. The remaining 97% of the music is unprotected and playable on any player that can play the open formats. It’s hard to believe that just 3% of the music on the average iPod is enough to lock users into buying only iPods in the future. And since 97% of the music on the average iPod was not purchased from the iTunes store, iPod users are clearly not locked into the iTunes store to acquire their music."

James · 2 years ago

Computers break down. Software has bugs. Some, less than others.

Not everyone experiences a nerd rage outbreak when their system stops working though.

Just confirms my internet dickwad theory :P Give someone a voice, watch them turn into an asshole.

Andrew · 2 years ago

“Mac fanboys perpetuate the “my s**t doesn’t stink” attitude by showing off their overly-expensive products with hardware/software vendor lock-in.”

I don't really know how the products are still considered overly expensive, or where the hell the hardware/software vendor lock-in is with the computer. I'm sure as hell not able to use a zune on a mac, if you're going after the ipod, otherwise, I'm tri-booting on my mac. As for overly expensive, I mean, I paid like $1200 for my macbook, and for what I got I was paying nearly the same for a windows laptop, maybe a few hundred less for the windows laptop. But then again, I trip over my power cable a few times a month, so the money i save on power adapters alone pretty much makes that difference moot :P

Nik Jones · 2 years ago

I had a similar problem. I updated my MBP15" to 10.4.11, and it wouldn't reboot. Eventually I powered off, and then it wouldn't start.

I did an 'Archive & Install' (or what ever its called) to get Tiger up and running again, then reinstalled 10.4.11.

Apart from a few apps not working (Cisco VPN, Plaxo, Mozy, CoreDuoTemp) everything else seems to be working perfectly.

This is the first time I've had to reinstall OSX in 18 months compared to about every 3 months with XP AND after getting the machine back up and running, almost everything was still working.

Podesta · 2 years ago

My update to my MacBook Pro installed without a hitch. But, then, I don't run any third-party software that accesses the system kernel. I'll wager that you do, Robert.

What has been described is not a kernel panic. They result in changes in the screen pattern of one sort or another.


Start troubleshooting with an fsck. You do know how to do that, right?

clothier · 2 years ago

Funny, I have an iBook (5 years old and it's never needed ANYTHING. I wonder if it has anything to do with the new intel chips? Personally, i prefer linux as an os. If it weren't for iPhoto and ffmpegx, I'd rest with buying the DELL at half the fortune/price, deleting every sign of Micro-softbrain OS, and install SUSE 10.3 with Compiz fusion on the DELL. The only time Linux needs a restart is in those very rare instances one installs a new kernel. Hope you resolve your wee issues and then continue enjoying a real computer. I think I will get me the new macbook and install Linux on that.

destogate · 2 years ago

Hey Buddy,

Calm down. Maybe its just the shop you're going to thats being naughty. My friend was sitting outside an apple shop and one of the employees walked out. he saw his mac and said it was discolored. He asked my friend to come in and he replaced his plate. he asked if there were any other problems. They replaced his battery too. I have to strongly say, Apple has awesome customer care and if you're not getting the best, complain about it officially.

Having said that, you should check out my blog for a post on the hanging mac. I caught a photograph :)

Thanks.

Diego · 2 years ago

"Robert, surely you live near an apple store. hop in the car go in and ask the genius to fix it. You should be fixed up in a jiffy."

Why do something about it? But that would defeat the purpose of complaining about it on one's blog.

As for Apple not giving bloggers free stuff. It really gets boring quick when they complain about not getting free stuff. Not being invited to some conference or given the scoop on some new product. Really, really boring, really, really fast. Ever stop to think that maybe some companies don't care what some bloggers have to say? Or at least what some bloggers have to say? Maybe others are better recipients of a company's products. I don't think some bloggers do. They just like to whine about it.

Here's an example of Winer asking whether he has to (shock horror!) buy himself a Zune to evaluate it! Incredible, I know. A few weeks later he's blogging about how he just purchased $50,000 USD worth of Apple stock. Yet he couldn't buy a Zune? Incredulous, I know.

Stop your whining bloggers.

Josh · 2 years ago

Like others on this comment list, I am so totally tired of self-important, bloggers like Scoble whining about anything and everything. He's a perfect example of the Internet Fuckwad Theory.

If you can use foul language like "screw you Apple" then I guess I can use language like "screw you Scoble".

HQ19:7 · 2 years ago

Maybe you should remove vista. It's probably causing the mayhem with your kernel. Personally i prefer SUSE 10.3. If only i could find something to replace iPhoto.. is there anything that makes a slideshow as simply as iPhoto on Linux?

Richard · 2 years ago

Aww hunnybunch! Why don't you fucking call Apple then and get it fixed? Also, out of curiosity: what the fuck do you think the word "ironic" means? I don't think you used it properly.

GadgetGav · 2 years ago

Great to see that a quick anti-Apple post can really boost the page hits and comments Robert. I'm happy to help out. Even your like to the Daily Show writer's You Tube vid has less than 1/5th the comments of this post.

As someone who's dealt with technology for years, I'm surprised and disappointed by your reaction to your upgrade problems. Upgrading the OS on any computer is a risk. Did you have a full, bootable, tested backup of your system before you started..? That's just a basic step on any system.
Then when it didn't work, did you try basic trouble shooting..? No you just posted a potty-mouthed blog about how Apple is no different to all the rest. Bizarre.
I recently had to reboot my iMac - a rare occurrence on my Mac, a common one on my WinNT box. When it rebooted I got the grey screen for a while, then the ? folder icon. Was my immediate reaction to throw the thing out and use Windows exclusively... I don't think so..! I powered down and powered up again and it worked just fine. It took a little longer to boot up, so I think it was fixing something in the background, but now it works again just like before.

Apple are not able to change the laws of physics. This is still a computer with RAM and hard disks, running very complex OS code. Things will go wrong. Would you trade in your BMW M5 for a Hyundai just because the brake pads wore out or it needed a new muffler..?

So screw you, your fake rage and your flawed logic.

boreal forest · 2 years ago

@62,

Good post. I agree.

Just becuase one is a well-known or well-liked blogger does not make one entitled to free swag.

To all bloggers: Do you want to emulate a good tech luminary? Try being more like Steve Wozniak. He's smart as a tree full of owls, yet he's humble, etc.

Steve is offered free swag all the time, yet waits in line with the rest of the common man because he keeps it real.

No one is entitled. No one. Everyone should be treated the same. Fairly. People who expect better treatment simply because of who they are deserve nothing.

MacTexan · 2 years ago

I bet if you quit hitting yourself in the head with a hammer your headache will go away. Just another way of saying if Apple products are so awful then STOP USING THEM. I have been using Macs since '86. Sounds to me that you might be the type of person that really shouldn't use a Mac or any computer for that matter. Try Linux if you are so unhappy with Microsoft/MacOS.

Kevin · 2 years ago

I just bought a 15" Macbook Pro. I say that so I am not ripped right away for being a windows fanboy.

Most of you are missing the point. I agree that there are a lot of things that someone can do to fix a problem with their Mac. However, that goes against the point of the commercials, and what I believe Robert was trying to point out. The things that are being suggested to Robert and the problems that he is having are supposed to only be Windows problems. If you watch the ads you would believe that Macs never have any problems and they are nothing but roses and sunshine.

And to blame his problems on "unapproved" software. I don't recall Apple mentioning anything in their ads that says you will only have a great experience if you don't install any non-Apple approved software.

Allvright, now to watch the comments that will be sure to come my way ripping me....

Kevin

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Kevin: EXACTLY!

anon · 2 years ago

And what's up with you having to go to the Apple store? Don't you have any geek friends who can actually do something (as opposed to yak yak yak about technology like they have any clue of what's going on)? Can't fix a software problem yourself, you need to go to the genius bar?

How did you ever deal with Windows errors?

The kernel panic is caused by some errant extension on your computer that isn't compatible with OS X. Stop installing junk from every startup "CEO" you talk to and maybe you'll have a computer that's stable.

anon · 2 years ago

"Brian and Ryo: I think you guys are funny. Sounds like Microsoft users — we’re used to this kind of hell. I expect better from Apple, especially when they are running ads saying they are better."

Didn't you already say a reboot fixed it or is today "shill for Microsoft" day?

If a reboot fixed it and you can't recreate the error, in the computer industry that's called "user error".

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Anon: a reboot AFTER I zapped the PRAM and AFTER I started up in safe mode, which ran some diagnostics software fixed it. I only would have known to try those if I had gone into an Apple store and some "genius" would have tried those, or because I have a blog with lots of smart people who hang out here.

It wasn't "user error" by the way. This was totally caused by the OSX update.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Anon: I haven't installed any software on my Mac. Nice try. I haven't had a Windows error in years. Glad to see you are repeating "the brand promise of Apple."

I thought any idiot could run a Macintosh. Or do all the Apple ads lie?

Ron · 2 years ago

@128 Unfreakingbelieable! You really don't get the point advertising? Can we also conclude that you get pissed when you find out can't rich by buying real estate with no money down? Or lose weight by taking a pill? Or get girls by wearing Old Spice? Or tow a 747 with a Ford F150?

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Ron: exactly. Be a dutiful little Apple FanBoi and step back in line.

Albert Willis · 2 years ago

I don't get the extremist position Scoble. Look, computers are complex things, as you know. No matter what, they aren't always going to work as expected.

The Apple ads don't lie, however, Apple can't stop people from making up their own stories about what the ads mean. At no time has Apple ever said that you'll never have a problem if you buy a Mac. No reasonable person should expect zero problems on any computer.

Certainly compared to what people go through with Windows, it's not even close. It's not that you'll never have a problem or a crash on a Mac, it's that, compared to life on XP or Vista, things are a lot nicer most of the time. It's a quality of life issue really.

Apple's ad point out something most Windows users are beginning to realize: there's an alternative to Windows. When I worked at MIT, most of Windows users I helped didn't know that not all computers had spyware and viruses and lousy networking. They thought if you used a computer--any computer--this is what you had to live with. People are realizing that's not the case.

Can someone with enough time, skill and motivation keep their Windows machine in great condition and never run into a problem? Absolutely. Do most people have the skill and the time to do this on Windows? No. Windows forces you to have some pretty decent system administration skills to keep things running smoothly.

On the Mac, you don't need to be as skilled or motivated to keep things running nicely, since by virtue of how Mac OS X is designed, it's not necessary. But if you want to get all bad-ass, there's no limit--since it's Unix combined with some of the best of modern operating system design from the "Mac" side of things.

Ron · 2 years ago

@134. Don't think that was the point I was making. I just can't believe you are so naive as to take Apple's ads literally.

David · 2 years ago

"a reboot AFTER I zapped the PRAM and AFTER I started up in safe mode, which ran some diagnostics software fixed it."

Booting OS X into Safe Mode does not run any diagnostics, it only disables some non critical system extensions (and all third party software). After the machine boots, only user action can perform any diagnostics.

Furthermore, diagnostics, by definition, do not solve problems, they diagnose them. Yet you omit the results of your diagnostic testing, and you omit whatever actual steps were performed that "fixed it."

"It wasn’t “user error” by the way. This was totally caused by the OSX update."

You have yet to describe what "this" turned out to be. Pardon me if I'm suspicious as to your assignment of blame.


David

James Stroud · 2 years ago

I've worked with and owned dozens (and dozens) of macs. I've seen only two with real problems. Both belonged to my bosses! Har!

Judi Sohn · 2 years ago

@139 "Booting OS X into Safe Mode does not run any diagnostics, it only disables some non critical system extensions (and all third party software). After the machine boots, only user action can perform any diagnostics."

I don't know what you'd call a diagnostic, but Apple says here http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=...

"Starting up into Safe Mode does three things to simplify the startup and operation of your computer:

* It forces a directory check of the startup volume.
..."

I'd say a directory check of the startup volume is a diagnostic. What do you call it? :-)

I completely understand how Robert felt when his computer wouldn't start. It's damn frustrating, and if you have a blog you end up using it to vent that frustration. So what? Cut the guy some slack.

Yes, Macs are a bit easier to fix when upgrades go south, but if you don't know what to do to get started to try and fix the problem it really doesn't matter.

David in Saskatoon · 2 years ago

Exactly the same thing happened to me! I did an erase and install from the original disk and then Time Machined myself back to where I started. Checked around for a possible culprit (instead of publicly bemoaning how awful Apple is)... figured the likeliest problem was with the Log In items (which included a demo version of Path Finder)... removed all log in items and then installed the standalone combo package downloaded from Apple. Everything now runs as smooth as silk...

Tom · 2 years ago

Robert,

"Be a dutiful little Apple FanBoi and step back in line."

I see you got the Apple-bashers memo that says the preferred spelling is to use an "i" because it looks more hip and trendy.

When you post this kind of crap you weaken any argument you may be trying to make. It makes you look like the kind of Apple posters you rail against.

John · 2 years ago

Early adopting is not for the faint of heart. You're practically signing on to be an extended beta tester.

I waited to buy my Mac Mini until its final PowerPC revision, and you can be damn sure I'm not getting Leopard right away. My latest 10.4 update is still as stable as the one I got when I opened the box.

Shawn Levasseur · 2 years ago

Robert.

I'd be more sympathetic about your plight if it wasn't for the parts of this post bragging about how every other company would be bending over to kiss your ass.

Maybe if you were more like one of us mere mortals, you'd have tried rebooting from the install disk before going on a public tirade. You come across as if you're shouting to the world, "Don't they know who I am?!"

Tom Ward · 2 years ago

I had a similar problem after applying the update to my iMac - including the firmware update - the computer got stuck when trying to shut down (20 minutes) - I used control + escape to get the shutdown menu and re-selected shutdown, but had to do it several times before the computer would actually shut down - it seemed to be working fine after that, but on a hunch I selected shutdown and had the same problem shutting down ... After cycling through this process several times, and managing to shut down, I disconnected the power, held down the power button then let the computer sit for a while ... eventually all seemed to restore itself to normal and it's currently fine.

Tom Ward · 2 years ago

Sorry - control + eject to get the shutdown menu ... though I wanted to escape!

Cheers.

Brian · 2 years ago

You installed Logitech's Revolution MX or similar software? Didn't you? Admit it. Booting into safe mode doesn't fix kernel panics. You updated APE, yes? Or did you not fix the problem?

Will all this exposure, some actual information would have served your readers well, rather than feeding the loyalty by correlation crowd.

Troll for hits much?

Livia Iacolare · 2 years ago

Just go to an Apple Store and get it fixed, man.

Lars Balle · 2 years ago

What do we call a person who buys a $1,999.00 (at least) computer for a kid?

Sebastien · 2 years ago

I love how your bad experience with 2 machines equates to Apple Bad.
I am not saying this from a Mac Fan Boy perspective, I am saying this from a Logic analysis perspective.

If this is the case then:
George W, was elected legally.
When you leave meat sitting out for a couple of days it MAKES maggots and flies.
The earth is Flat, because everything around me is flat, and I don't fly off of it.
Microsoft Zune is an Amazingly successful product because J.Allard said so.

The logic of this post is really deficient and pretty sad.

I was the cto of a small design firm mostly composed of Macs (about 400) but we also had about 200 pcs.

Most of the PCs where Dell precision workstations, and some Dell laptops.

I tried to make all upgrades concurrent so that everyone would get new machines at once therefore reducing the differences in hardware across the board and always having the same system/apps/utilities etc.

I bought a couple years ago I bought 100 new G5s for designers and developers and about 50 new Dell Precision Workstations '6X0' (can't remember if they where 650/660/70).

In this purchase I returned 4 G5's with a number of hardware problems, initially, and 2 kept giving me problems, and where eventually replaced.

My Apple VAR, was on prompt, organized, and unfailingly apologetic for the problems. (issues with RAM and RAID uprades where their fault.)

I returned 15 Dell's with a combination of Hardware failures and software compatibility issues, they actually where not exactly the same machines, and a number of the parts (dvd-rw drives, raid card, and gigabitE ports) where not compatible, had non-signed drivers, or just failed.
Other problems which seem to always prop up are things like drive doors/covers breaking after a week, the materials used in their constructions being generally cheaper, and random parts failures, wether it is IEEE1394 ports (something Apple has problem with too); ethernet ports, power supplies etc.)

I never was able to match all the PCs, I continue to have driver compatibility issues with these, and Maya, After effects, and StudioMax crash constantly.)
Mind you these are not your cheap Office Dells, these where the parts that where supposed to be on par with the G5s. cost exactly the same ($4000 with 4GB ram, 1 160GB system drive, 1 stripped 1 TB RAID0, and nVidious 3400s, exactly the same on mac and pcs)

Similarly to the Apple service the Dell technicians, where professional, prompt and tried to be as helpful as possible in difficult situations where the machines they had to work on NEEDED to be online, as their inactivity was literally costing our company "THOUSANDS" a day in actual work, and lost productivity.

What is the point of my story.

Well in my experience as a tech, a help desk professional, a CIO, and a CTO (about 15y); in general Apple computers have WAY lower failure rates, then PCs shipped by other tier one vendors (HP, Dell, IBM, Compaq).

When Apple products do fail, they Fail HARD.

When PCs fail, in most situations it makes more business sense to replace then fix.

The Great Majority of the macs are only replaced every 3 years, and have high resale values. (we usually fire sale them to employees, who always want them, even the PC users.)

Most PCs are not so useful after 2 years, their parts tend to fail faster, software is not compatible with them, and their resale value is usually 1/2 of the Macs.

When all parts are equal, Macs have a tendency to have less issues in the long run. (all hardware, comes from the same suppliers, is assembled in the same factories, and especially these days when what separates a MacBook Pro/Mac Pro and a Dell Mobile or standard Precision workstation is just the outer casing --same processors, same chipsets, same ram, same same same).

This I attribute to better integration of the parts; in the last purchase I made all 30 Mac Pros where exactly the same, and we have had no driver issues or any compatibility problem with these machines Either in OSX or XP. ..(We don't buy Dells anymore as this makes no sense in the world of VMware and Bootcamp.)

So the point of your rant seems to be off to me, and all the people who scream YEAY, I am vindicated my windows box is totally fine; are missing the point.
Mr Scobles rant doesn't reflect anything on Apple the company, more likely it reflects on the specific machines he got.
For everyone with his experience there are at least 8 people who have never seen the inside of a Apple Genius bar or tekserve or any other service provider/repair shop.

and of course, if you really think that there is a difference between the tech in APPLE computers vs that in a DELL, you are really delusional.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Lars: Patrick saved up for the computer himself.

My dad bought the family an Apple II back in 1977. That cost $5,000 (which in today's dollars is probably $15,000 -- back then a house in Silicon Valley cost something like $80,000). It's one of the things that totally changed the direction of my life.

Barry Smyth · 2 years ago

I recently bought into the hype of owning a Mac.

For years they have been telling me through some great TVC's that I'm an idiot for using a PC.

So after an apprenticeship with a Mac mini I relented & bought a brand spanking new Macbook Pro a few months ago. Enter Leopard, loaded fine on the Mini & killed what must have been a dodgy HD on the Macbook - two weeks later I have it back & I feel a little soiled by the whole affair.

Adrian Abraham · 2 years ago

Scoble,
It's so obvious that your not a Mac user - go get a Vista machine quick.
Enjoy
Adrian

wut · 2 years ago

"The original retail price of the computer (Apple ][) was US$1298 (with 4 KB of RAM) and US$2638 (with the maximum 48 KB of RAM)."

Will aka Brutal · 2 years ago

What concerned me is I have been watching the RSS feed from apple, and since 10.5 Leopard has been released, there have been 15+ serious bugs and problems for upgraders. If you buy it bundled, great, but for the rest of us, it really concerns me. Microsoft does this all the time, but this time Apple seemed to rush Leopard for the Holidays. In addition, Leopard had all eye candy, no real functional improvements, just cool add ons. That is also what Microsoft does way too much. More feature glut than actual core enhancements or speed improvements. I will stick with 10.4 for a while. Maybe a long while.

Mojo Nixon · 2 years ago

Check Fake Steve Jobs. Er, now.

http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2007/11/scoble-th...

roz · 2 years ago

The truth is that if you use one platform most of the time its hard to be objective in comparisons with another. Its like being from a different country. You know what's good about OS and how to keep it running, its hard to evaluate an issue on another. If you'd really rather use Windows, by all means use it. I don't see an issue with that.

I think if you like a certain software package, OS or device and you choose it, you are more inclined to invest time to learn it. Are Mac's easier? Maybe not that much in real terms, but people really tend to like them and spend time investigating them. When someone hands me a BlackBerry I am a bit baffled by it, I just don't see why you'd want to trouble with that UI compared to a Palm or better the iPhone. Clearly there are a ton of people who use them and depend on then and they figure it out well enough. I just don't want to devote the energy when the iPhone works so well.

Mac people really love their experience with Apple products. I don't think they are totally brainwashed. Either they are not having problems, they are not bothered by the problems they encounter or they simply on balance think the experience is better. And without comparative statistics its really tough to know 1) what the incidence of problems are comparatively for either OS and 2) the comparative severity that you would on each platform.

I know my friend's computer took 10 hours to install Vista with several restarts. It seems really hard to use and maintain to me. I just don't want to bother with that. Leopard took one hour install and has been great.

To be frank, the system problem described here did not seem that bad to me, it seems like it will be easily resolved. There seems to be no loss of data. You did not need to drop into any command line to fix it. That is not great but not that bad.

I don't think its reasonable to expect no errors on any system you have, but I do have Mac systems with have worked that way. Also, the genius bars are pretty great. If you make an appointment from home, its really quite convenient when you do have an issue.

My Windows friends talk often about needing to rebuild their systems. After six months to a year, things get slow and they need to wipe and reinstall their system. That is pretty unheard of on a Mac. At most, on the Mac people will do an "Archive and Install", which sounds like the same solution but is much easier, an simple overlay install of the OS.

Flish · 2 years ago

Ain't Karma a bitch...

Marc Duchesne · 2 years ago

Upgraded my 3+ yrs old PowerBook G4 on Leopard last week : everything works absolutely fine. Even Dashboard don't swallow the memory anymore.
Got a regular/invisible/not-asked Windows update on my work's laptop last week : it screwed up the whole Network settings (you know, things like WiFi' WEP keys).
Oh, there is one more thing : my PowerBook encountered a 750°F fire in my home office back in early 2005. Guess what : each and every NON-Apple branded electronic equipment went dead. Each and every Apple product still work 100%, including the PowerBook itself.

John · 2 years ago

John Dvorak admits to baiting Mac users for hits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAWDYaWAVQQ

Not very original...you even do a 'flip-flop' in the middle like he suggests (comment 11).

Dru · 2 years ago

Robert,

Generally, the behavior you are seeing is the result of a disk / file system issue, though I have seen it happen a couple of other ways. The most frequent cause is the frequent use of he press and hold the power button method of shutting down, the system doesn't get a chance to flush itself correctly, in this case it's just like Windows.

If you boot to single user mode (command line) and run fsck -fy a few times until everything is cleaned up, the problem generally goes away. I couple of Safe Mode reboots can accomplish the same thing. On a Desktop, this really isn't an issue, but for laptops, where we abuse the disk a bit more, I make it a habit to periodically FSCK the disks.

Greg Hiscott · 2 years ago

Another question to ask:

Is this a good time to do the upgrade? Do I expect to use this machine for important work immediately? If so, perhaps you should wait until a more convenient time for the machine to be unavailable, just in case.

We all know that computers sometimes don't work the way we expect. Apple has a better reputation than M$.

judson · 2 years ago

Do you even know what ironic means?

clark · 2 years ago

Fanboy Frenzy!!

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Sigh. Now my finder isn't showing up.

Griffon · 2 years ago

No offense, but god forbid we should all live in a world where bloggers don't get some kind of special shut up, or just to say nice things, kind of treatment through a PR firm... Computer problems suck (for you know, everbody) and I personally think apple has some serous hardware quality control issues (met a lot of mack books with dead USB ports), yet your gut reaction is to get pissy because the apple PR firm doesn't help you? WTF man, get some perspective, everbodies time to valuable for this kind of shit not just yours.

Lars Balle · 2 years ago

But how can a kid save up more than $2000?

Of course it's your decision how to be a parent. I just wonder.

Robert Scoble · 2 years ago

Lars: he gets lots of gifts from grandparents and family members. I kicked in $500 for getting straight A's on his report card, too and he gets allowance from us every week too. I'd much rather he saved all his money to buy a new computer than to waste it on candy, YuGiOh cards, or something else similarly stupid.

Will · 2 years ago

I never had that kind of trouble with Linux...

John · 2 years ago

you do realize that a mac is still a computer, and its also a laptop, and laptops usually have more problems than desktops, so yeah the mac is not the panacea for all your windows problems, nothing ever will be, but im happy with my make, it has never shut off unexpectantly, and runs perfectly fine, so im fine and dandy with my upgrade from the blue screen of dead, all my programs not responding, and everything running slow. get over your selves, the commercial is just a commercial, its to sell products. when you buy Axe, you dont expect women to come running up to you and clamboring all over you, so u shouldnt expect apples to be the god of computers.

michael · 2 years ago

I chose MS/WindowsNT as the platform for a web company in '97 for what MS called Dynamic HTML (ajax)and the $ Bribes from MS. The blue screen hell of updates to all the web and db servers was beyond description.

In contrast I migrated an entire mixed platform company to Apple OS 10.1 through 10.4. With OS-X I learned to embrace every upgrade and software update immediately with virtually no problems.

I watched in awe as each OS-X version installed and ran on all legacy machines eventually that were 8 years old!! AND EACH NEW VERSION RAN FASTER THAN THE PREVIOUS VERSION. There was no problem replacing Macs -- just not necessary.

Compare that to the overall experience with Windows: delaying upgrades, crossing fingers if apply updates, not changing what ain't broke for fear of disaster. A new Windows version? don't bother upgrading an even 1 yr old. machine -- just buy a new computer.

Lisa · 2 years ago

I knew the evangelists would be responding in droves to this.

Me - I felt glad that someone else is writing what I'm feeling - I can't believe I fell for the "It just works" lines. I have a 17" MacBook Pro. It has never been willing to turn on properly if any device - even a printer - is plugged in to it.

I've had it under six months, and at the moment, it won't turn on past the grey screen, and the dark apple alternating with the no entry symbol and occasionally a symbol of a folder with a question mark. I've let it sit for ages, I've called Apple, I've tried quite a bit.

Apple said it's operating system failure or a corrupt file on the operating system. I have to reinstall, losing everything I have on the computer. It might be the hardware, but they won't explore that option until I've erased the whole system and reinstalled.
Apple said they're closing in a few minutes - 6pm my time - and they all take the weekend off, so no, I won't be able to get any technical support for several days.

I paid several thousand dollars for this. I had equal problems as a PC owner, for considerably less expense, and less abysmal customer service.

Don't buy it, don't buy it, don't buy it.

'It just works'?

It just works for a while.


Lisa

Lisa · 2 years ago

I suspect there will be a drove of 'safe mode, stupid' messages, so to cut them short, we tried safe mode, but it doesn't work - still the grey screen.

We have no Apple story on Canada's west coast. I did try MacStation, which I'm guessing is authorized to carry Mac's because they treat customers badly also. MacStation says they are always so backed up it's a week or two before they'll even look at a computer. Interesting queue for a product that's marketed as problem-free.

susan · 1 year ago

DUDE APPLE IS FRIGGEN AWSOMM!!!!!!!

letoque · 1 year ago

hi, my comment in german.
ich arbeite als mac supporter und ich kenne diese phänomene, man macht ein appe update und der mac startet nicht mehr, man kann versuchen was man will, das einzige was hilft das system komplett neu installieren, das ist meine erfahrung.

best regard from berne - capitol from switzerland

Kim · 1 year ago

I am trying to help my mom with her laptop. It is an Apple. It starts to boot up and the Apple icon comes on and then a circle (like it is thinking) and it just gets stuck here and wont go any further. Anyone know how to fix this? Thanks so much.
kim

Bill · 1 year ago

Yeah, I've just went through nine circles of Hell trying to get Apple to correct the shipping address of a macbook I bought from them. After about 2 weeks I just told them to give me a refund. It's been 2 weeks since then and they still haven't even got something as simple as giving a refund done. I have no faith in Apple. I will never buy or attempt to buy another Apple product in my life. I reported them to the Better Business Bureau btw