Scobleizer - Latest Comments in Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

cvos — Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:14:29 -0000

Microsoft just doesnt get it. The reason Google is now a verb for searching is because of intention.

The difference between MS and Google:

Goole tried to build the best search engine based on innovative search retrieval technology. They succeeded, and subsequently monetized their invention.

Microsoft created a system to deliver ads (MSN), then tried to pretend it was a search engine.

Throughout the 30 year history of Microsoft, they have proven they cannot be trusted. In Google's short 8 year history, they have thus far not betrayed users trust.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

James Dickens — Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:19:24 -0000

Google does talk to bloggers, well he does me. He sent me this peace of paper, that says "Pay to the Order of" I get this same message every few months. Google also says here try this new applicaion, its free enjoy. Gmail, Analytics, Adsense, Desktop all come to mind, all rock and make my day go better.

Microsoft on the other hand has never sent me anything with the words "Pay to the order of" they come close but usually theirs say "Pay in order to use our software"

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Podesta — Wed, 30 Aug 2006 23:25:04 -0000

Chris P., (Crispy?) Robert is partly right. Apple's share in recently sold laptops is 12 percent. Also, about five percent overall doubles Apple computer sells from two or three years ago.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

ioannusdeverani — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 22:20:27 -0000

Excellent ppst, Scoble. As Google makes its way to the top, the Establishment, I am beginning to notice this "double-standard" in that people are bashing Google's stuff, and hyping smaller companies. It is just a cycle. No matter who is doing better work, people always seem to go for the little guy. I do my best not to be biased against (or for) Microsoft, Google, or any small startups.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Sports Snob — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:43:09 -0000

Brilliant post! And somehow the fact that Google is a bloody coprporate giant is lost in all the free stuff they dole out.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Galen — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:09:32 -0000

7. Google doesn't do a lot of breathless, in your face advertising, previews and announcements 6 months in advance of a product. They typically release a decent product on the day they announce it and let the product stand for itself.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

David Burdon — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:26:32 -0000

Google gets comment share because its positioning is currently hot. Google is both salient and relevant to most of what is going on in the Internet space. Web marketing is hot as corporations shift advertising dollars from traditional to new media. Search is hot as advertisers increasingly embrace both paid and natural strategies to boost ROI. Web 2.0 is hot as Myspace et al make the news. Google is central to all of this activity. By comparison Microsoft - and its core psoitioning as a provider of desktop software - seems so 1990s.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

brainimmersion — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:57:11 -0000

Google is an innovative company, and Microsoft steals almost ALL of its ideas for products from small companies with big ideas and even bigger balls. That is why anyone who appreciates the internet for its innovation, appreciates Google over Microsoft. Sad... but true. Get over it.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

liquidat — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:51:49 -0000

Hm, you did not touch reasons which I would like to see listed:
- Google said "don't be evil"; sure, they made their mistakes, but Microsoft never even said something like that, the philosophy tends in another direction
- Google keeps close to real standards: whenever I start something from Microsoft I can be sure that it will not work with any other solution except the other solution also comes from Microsoft: Google even supports independent and open development, Microsoft oppresses it wherever it can catch it
- although Google has a huge market share (in Germany for example it is often said more than 85%!), it is clear that Microsoft will battle this down, with the usual way of bundled monopoly, so why care about Google as a monopolist when it will not last?

Both of them are guilty in case of forwarding private data of users to government structures which are not democratic or "good", whatever that means.

And last but not least: Microsoft is an aggressive monopolist, condemned several times but continues this way of marketing. That is not really a company which I would celebrate, even if they have some nice things.

The level Microsoft has to reach to be celebrated because of something new is much higher, some of the reasons I mentioned probably have caused this, too.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

justint — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:50:36 -0000

the biggest target is the one anyone with a (half) brain can hit. sorry if I speak the truth (I mean, offend somebody)

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Justin — Tue, 29 Aug 2006 03:05:34 -0000

Robert,

Some good points. But you forgot to mention the all-important common perception of Microsoft and Google as companies. This is possibly the giant killer, the make or break deal when all this Web 2.0 stuff finally shakes out.

Google's "Don't be evil" mantra and demonstrated (read that again, *demonstrated*) good will has won the hearts of millions. I used to be a Microsoft zealot. For years, I pushed MS products to my friends and bosses because I was loyal. Now I push Google stuff where applicable.

Mindshare. Microsoft's got it. Google's got it. But it looks like Google has the most sustainable mindshare with possibly the least churn (in the web space only, of course. But isn't that where everything is going?). Even if Google and Microsoft are doing the same evil things to us and our data inside their respective black boxes, Google has at least made public claims for us to hold them accountable to, and this brings a certain peace of mind - however misplaced it may or may not be.

Microsoft - ignoring Vista delays - just hasn't given us anything to rally to in a long time. Now, I love what is happening with Xbox, and opening up the platform for indie developers was a sweet move indeed. We need more of that.

Anyway, with Ray, it looks like we're seeing the twinkle of new beginnings at Microsoft. With the blogosphere and new media taking shape the way it is, the people have eyes and ears in all places now. We watch companies closely. We hold companies accountable and flay them alive when they behave badly.

Sure, Microsoft can get by on brute force for probably a long time to come still, but I think it knows it needs to play ball in order to win more quality mindshare; the kind of brand loyalty that makes the products sell themselves. This may yet be the only battle that matters in the future as commodity technologies and services distribute among the masses.

I'm grateful for the competition Google has brought, and I hope it makes a better, smarter, and - most of all - a more lovable Microsoft.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Marie Germain — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:08:33 -0000

Christopher: ahhhh the voice of reason. Web apps must be celebrated within their means! For now.

Kermit: it's just marketing as a root cause. The ol brand extension I posted earlier today. Many good brands die on execution. Googling everything does not bode well because they have attached themselves too strongly to product (search) rather than meaning. There's no stretch room. A new brand is required to win the hearts of these consumers. Yahoo on the other ahnd has broader emotional meaning. And MSN is been the original social enabler. See?

Good night everybody and thanks Robert for all the fun.
Tomorrow I'll get some real work done. So don't go posting something interesting that gets me all fired up again.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Christopher Coulter — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 20:58:50 -0000

Please explain what you think is exciting about ERP

Exciting? Wotchtalkingaboutwillis? Put down the coding Mountain Dew. Nothing is exciting about ERP. But it be vital. Try wrapping a Fortune 100 supply-chain management heavy app around a Googleish Webby-Mash-up, well, instant death. ERP is a commodity sure, but a bad implementation can ruin companies, see AT&T Wireless and that failed Siebel upgrade.

My point being tho, most bloggers are of the HTML markup webby sort, and have no idea of the real needs of the Enterprise. Mostly Comp-Sci grads tossed into software, with zero understanding of the underlining business processes at work, yabbing away on their blogs, thinking "exciting" Webby software is the only path to salvation.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Hugh MacLeod — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:48:49 -0000

related cartoon:
http://www.gapingvoid.com/M...

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Kermit — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:16:28 -0000

"Google talk usage is heading up, by the way. Watch for that number to change at next report."

Of course it'll head up, but you talk as if it'll constantly double evern N days.

But this July 2006 report shows how pathetic GTalk's share really is:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2...

"The user numbers coming out on Google Talk are staggeringly terrible. Comscore usage numbers show that nearly a year after launch Google is a distant, distant 4th after MSN, Yahoo and AIM. They hold a pitiful 1% of total instant messaging market share, with 3.4 million unique users in May 2006. See the Comscore chart below for more details (I wonder where Skype IM falls in those stats). Note that Comscore does not include Google Talk usage within Gmail itself (where it is embedded), but even factoring that in, the numbers are just awful.

The NYT picked up on this as well, noting that “Google Talk chat software had only 44,000 users in June”. Om Malik notes that there have been only about a million total downloads of the client.

Where does Google go from here? I suggest they roll some heads and figure out a real product strategy."

I don't "quote" the chart itself; you can click the link to see it.

I'm sure that GTalk's usage will increase over time, but I've grown tired of seeing Google portrayed like they can do no wrong, when in reality they seem to do very little right.

I don't really like the direction that they're taking the web anyway. Seems like more and more articles are 20 pages long, each with only a few sentences per page, so that the article can be filled to the brim with google ads.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Rich — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:13:14 -0000

Two words: Cross Platform.

That's why Google gets my respect, and Microsoft can kiss my apple.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Robert Oschler — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:46:58 -0000

What the heck?

I feel like I just crashed a party for the Web's blogging luminaries. Is this truly the comment thread for the IlumiBloggerati? I'll go hide my hyundai behind this ferrari over here.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

vinnie mirchandani — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:49:13 -0000

Scoble, pardon me while I go get a big violin and play it for MS. Every body's out to get them - the Feds, the EEC, now bloggers. Consumers give them $ 40 billion a year. They give their R&D teams $ 6 billion a year. Results - late products, poor quality, then turn around and give massive payouts to investors rather than lower prices, improve product output. Google may get these bad habits some day but to date it has been an innvoator in a lot of areas...Even Larry Ellison has commented he cannot believe MS has Google envy. MS needs to quit looking backwards at Google and more towards much bigger players like IBM, Verizon, Oracle...ad revenue is puny compared to the $ 500 billion MS can get from markets of the top 20 IT and telecom vendors

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Skeptic — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:42:02 -0000

Two things I like to keep in mind...

1 - one of the first, and best, uses of real-time web pages (aka ajax) is Microsoft Outlook Web Access. Nothing beats it.

2 - google, via adsense, has screwed up the Web MUCH more than microsoft ever has...

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Chris P — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:04:34 -0000

"I thought I read that Apple’s market share has gone up a lot lately. If I remember right someone said it was up to 12% in the latest quarter."

Note quite Robert...check this out:

Apple's Macintosh market share soars 16 percent...to 4.8%. Still pretty low...

http://www.macworld.com/new...

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

LayZ — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:51:14 -0000

I'm convinced MS hires marketing MBA's that failed branding classes.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Kermit — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:42:36 -0000

"Steve Jobs said it best earlier this month: “Microsoft spends $5 Billion a year in reseach and development, and what do they come up with? All they can do is copy Apple and Google.”"

It's that kind of childishness that contributed that recent WWDC keynote to being the worst WWDC keynote ever.

See what GarageGames' Jeff Tunnell said regarding it:
http://makeitbigingames.com...

"Lately, I have been having second thoughts about OS-X games and committing to “cross platform” development in the sense of PC and OS-X. After spending 1 1/2 hours watching Apple’s Steve Jobs give the worst WWDC keynote in history, I decided to air my concerns on this blog. ...
...
...
Somehow, between this initial elation and the audience raving about pricing of X-Serve, the famed “reality distortion” field wore off. It was as if a bubble popped. Maybe it was because Steve had multiple people giving the presentation, maybe it was the continued jabs at Microsoft, or maybe it was just that Apple had so little to talk about."

Oh, and Jeff Tunnell used to be a rabid Microsoft hater; see his 2001 blogs. ;-)

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Robert Scoble — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:41:09 -0000

Marie: heheh, bringing up Reis and Trout sure does get passions going, doesn't it?

Kermit: I thought I read that Apple's market share has gone up a lot lately. If I remember right someone said it was up to 12% in the latest quarter.

You've described how hard it is to get people to change their usage, right. Google talk usage is heading up, by the way. Watch for that number to change at next report.

Google Maps has 17% of the market and is going up. The trick is to watch its rate of growth. That'll tell you more than the current market share.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Marie Germain — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:34:15 -0000

Robert, Trout and Ries were wrong. The mind is extremely complex--associating a brand if one thing is associating with little or nothing. You understood Trout and Ries well and they made a good buck with their theory. But they were wrong. The neuro-scientific fact is the reverse. Consumers have memories, a collection of interconnected thoughts called mental models( thoughts are themselves a collection of neurons)and many consumers share similar models. This is where the gold is. You must identify these thoughts/models and know the cues that elicit the right emotions and the right behavior--and its not a word. People are not simpletons--not stupid, they are very very complex. that's a beautiful thing. I'll bet MS and Google have yet to do this work--but it is the most reliable course to take. The rest is a crapshoot that lines the pockets of promoters and lazy marketers. I spend my time (when I am not immersed in conferencing in web 2.0) undoing their doings in executive seminars by explaining how the mind works and reacts. Everything changes after day. Aaarrrrgh! to those who still have not flamed their marshmellows over this useful fire-starter.

Re: Bloggers have a double standard when it comes to Google vs. Microsoft?

Kermit — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:32:51 -0000

Wasn't there a Business Week article last month saying that Google has basically FAILED in everything it's tried except search and ads? GMail uptake is flat, Google Maps is played with for a few minutes but rarelly actually used, their other stuff is far behind the market leaders (instant messaging, voice messaging, video sharing, etc).

Apple gets tons of blogger press, yet Mac's usershare is still 4%. Linux's is 0.4% despite years and years of hype.
http://marketshare.hitslink...
http://www.onestat.com/html...
http://www.thecounter.com/s...
http://www.artlebedev.com/t...

There's a HUGE difference between the tech-hype media/bloggers and the real world.