If only they could harness this engineering prowess to produce computers or perhaps even an operating system, that would be a sight indeed.
Aaron Axvig
· 2 years ago
Yawn. For the past few weeks I've been watching Comedy Central on demand using an XBox 360 as a Vista MCE. I'm sure I could have done it a long time before that.
Joe
· 2 years ago
You have a 360, how would you compare the two streaming from a PC (via media center or media connect). Obviously the 360 doesn't natively support mp4, so I presume that played a role in the purchase. But would love to hear your thoughts.
Comic Strip Blogger
· 2 years ago
Damn it Robert your blog posts are extremely valuable - like this one - but without photos/videos they are much less worth. Maybe you could put some SHORT (up to 2-3 minuts) videos too here?
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Joe: yeah, and the fact that it just hooks up directly to my TV. No need for extender weirdnesses.
And I sit on my couch with iTunes controlling what gets on my TV. I download something with iTunes and it shows up on Apple TV a few seconds later. It really is amazing. All through wifi.
Apple has done a better job of building a simple experience. Media Center is better for geeks, cause it does more. At least that's my first impression.
But, for about $350 (including cables and taxes) this is a great purchase.
I can't see getting an Xbox and a Media Center for that little money.
Magnus
· 2 years ago
Cool! I look forward to seeing it in action next week at our user group's Apple TV Event.
Joe
· 2 years ago
Hey Robert. In terms of price, depends on what OS you have (need XP MCE or Vista Home Premium) for the 360. Assuming you do, the price is not far off, $50 or so more for a 360 Core with wifi adapter.
1080i not p. For progressive, the max is 720. I'm running mine at 1080i and it's great, though it seems to crash everytime I try and sync photos. Granted, I have 35K of them, but it still shouldn't crash. Otherwise, delightful piece of engineering.
Aaron Axvig
· 2 years ago
It baffles me how people can get so excited about this when the Xbox 360 has such an upper hand:
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house.
2. Interface that 3rd parties can extend: Transcode 360 as one example. (Yes, it adds features to the extender's interface also). OMG humongous list here: http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/20347.aspx
3. Apple TV doesn't stream stuff? (that's the impression I got from the Gizmodo article) Like I want to wait for things to sync before I start looking at them.
3.5. You can play games on the Xbox. One can say this doesn't count because some people don't care about playing games, but let's face it a lot of us would.
I am curious how the Apple TV handles playlists. Can you play a music playlist that you have made on iTunes?
I'm not sure what extender weirdness you are talking about. Just watch the dots rotate for a while, punch 8 digits in your media center pc, and it works. According to the Gizmodo article, it sounds like they are both equally easy to set up. So I would appreciate your thoughts on which part is easier.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Aaron: Xbox is cool too. But if I want to watch Rocketboom it's a lot easier on Apple TV.
Playlists come over from iTunes, as far as I can tell.
Extender weirdness? My Wifi system causes it to crash once in a while. My Media Center is upstairs, though, so to do anything, like download Rocketboom, I gotta go upstairs. Download Rocketboom, make sure it's in the right directory, then head back downstairs to watch again.
Using Apple TV I do everything from my laptop.
Richard
· 2 years ago
Ermmm .. Robert? Remote desktop connection from your laptop to your mediacenter. Initiate download and play on the 360. Or even better, connect your 360 to the Media Player on your laptop and that's it!
But on the other hand, I see your point. Apple tends to make complicated things quite easy. They build neat stuff.
monk.e.boy
· 2 years ago
A new Apple TV?! How the other half live. I'll be waiting until someone I know manages to grab one second hand off eBay, before I see one :-(
monk.e.boy
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house.
Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on.
Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways. First, each movie is available for rental only during a several-week window–then it’s gone. Second, you have to start watching the movie within two weeks of downloading it. Third, once you start watching it, you have to finish watching within 24 hours.
In each case, the movie is lost forever if you’re tardy.
I'm not seeing that as a great selling point for movies on the 360. Ah, sweet, sweet rolling over for the DRM lords.
3.5. You can play games on the Xbox. One can say this doesn’t count because some people don’t care about playing games, but let’s face it a lot of us would.
I'm thinking that the 360 gets bought for games first, and then "hey, I can play movies too? Sweet!"
Rick
· 2 years ago
I don't get it.
What it does offer: integration with iTunes. What it doesn't offer: about 99% of all of the other stuff I already do with video-content.
And I'm not even that interested in integration with iTunes, since I can plug all of my computers straight into my TV without extra equipment...
I love Apple products, but I really don't get the added value of Apple TV.
Maybe it's just me, but I never understood the need for any of these devices that are supposed to integrate computers with television. All computers I've bought since the '95 can be hooked up directly to the TV. Any old one will do to serve as a permanent interface between the TV and my home network.
Sure, Apple TV looks better then the old Asus laptop currently plugged into my TV and stereo, but it can play all of the content I want to see and hear instead of just 5 percent...
JoeT
· 2 years ago
Supports 1080i? I take back (almost) everything bad I said about it. Does the Apple TV need a user logged into the PC where the media files reside in order to stream music and video? Can it play iso files?
I'm currently using an old PIII desktop with GB-PVR to stream to my media room. With various plug-ins, it essentially functions as a poor man's Kalaidescape system + Music Jukebox + PVR. It has a slick, easy to use interface (and total price to me, including the computer, was $0), but, as with any home-brew-type software, it can be a bit buggy. And then there's the machine boot-up time, which runs into several minutes. And the heat in my media rack.
If I can get the same (or similar) functionality without the boot lag and heat, I might be willing to shell out some clams.
Dr. Internet
· 2 years ago
I can absolutely understand dudes hating on this as a media device - it can't really compete with the versatility of an XBox 360 or the features of a TiVo or Media Center PC. But, really, that's not what it is.
Once you stop thinking of the Apple TV as a home theater component or living room workhorse and start thinking of it as an iPod + iTunes accessory, you can start to understand the appeal and imagine it (like other iPod-related accessories) selling like hotcakes.
Suresh Kumar
· 2 years ago
AppleTV is an extension to your HD Plasma TV and works just like an iPod (except wirelessly).
AppleTV auto sychs (wirelessly) all the media you have on your mac/pc iTunes library.
Simple as that, if its in iTunes its in AppleTV. (e.g. videos, podcasts, tv-shows, movies, audiobooks)
If you have your own DVD's or AVI or WMV or DIVX files you can convert them to MPEG-4 (.mp4/H.264) then they can be managed by iTunes. Once you have that done, they will auto-synch with AppleTV.
admirer
· 2 years ago
This is the Scoble I love, telling it how it is!
Thank science you took M$ weight off your shoulders and now can speak freely about everything you like, good or bad.
Kudos!
Dan
· 2 years ago
People in the "I don't get it" crowd tend to be geeks who can't see beyond their own point of view. It was the same with the iPod - the original Slashdot discussion on the launch panned it.
Apple TV will work because people buy it and plug it in, and it "just works", in the same way the iPod "just works" with iTunes. It is to watching video via the internet what the iPod is to listening to music via the Internet.
It's a shame that Microsoft, for all the fantastic work they do, don't get this. They did briefly license Media Center Extenders but they've all gone now. They *should* develop a simple WiFi box that just automagically hooks into WMP11 on _any_ computer, but of course that wouldn't drive sales for Vista Premium...
The AppleTV doesn't seem to support a lot of other formats that other similiar products do, including Ogg, DivX/XvId. Most things no support HDMI/Component/HD.
Is the AppleTV work without MaxOSX? While most other things list windows, they'll actually pull media form any UPnP source, including dumb file server NAS machines.
I guess like all things, if you're life doesn't revolve around an iPod, then there are better products than the AppleTV for this type of activity.
Or, I'm missing something in the hype. Also a good possibility. :-)
met
· 2 years ago
Did apple release the Apple tv because the mac minis didn't make it into people's living rooms? Can't you get a mini for a $100 more?
Greg Furry
· 2 years ago
Why does it always have to be this device rocks so that one must suck? The Apple TV looks cool. The Xbox is cool. Can't we have 2 cool products? Why does one have to be better than the other? Who cares. Just like ford vs chevy both have strengths and weaknesses that appeal to different people. This world is big enough for lots of cool products and I say Apple and Microsoft bring em on!
Wanderley
· 2 years ago
Aaron Axvig and others have a point.
From my perspective, I have way too many media devices in my living room already. Like me, lots of people won't feel compelled to buy an Apple TV because they see it as a redundant device where there's already an XBOX 360 and/or a TiVo.
For video purchases, I can buy or rent movies and TV shows from Amazon (to watch on the TiVo) or from Microsoft to watch on the 360. I don't because I think the two services suck (for similar reasons), but that's another discussion.
However, Apple TV has the video podcast integration with iTunes. That's key, because the best the guys from TiVo could come up with was their stupid TivoCasts, which suck due to limited selection of questionable taste.
Now that poses a problem for TiVo, right? They are pushing their customers to seek another box to watch Internet content. And once there's another box in the room, the very existence of the TiVo box is at risk.
bill streeter
· 2 years ago
I went to my local Apple Store to check it out last night. But they didn't have them in stock yet. I just wanted to see it. I have a MacMini hooked up to my TV so I doubt that there is any compelling reason to move to Apple TV--which would probably be a downgrade. It's great to watch internet video in the living room, but I wish there was a way to browse for new content via the remote and front row.
Terrin
· 2 years ago
Could somebody check and see it Apple TV will stream Shoutcast radio streams from within iTunes to the television.
Also, people should think of Apple TV more like a on steroid version of Airport Express. APple is trying to make the computer your digital hub where you gather our media content. Apple TV just brings it to the living room.
Andre
· 2 years ago
Well, I'm all for seeing a high res version of Scoble Show -- but I'd be pushing for a WMV version to feature in TVTonic's channel guide.
Speaking of, can you subscribe to new vodcasts from your couch/remote-control on the AppleTV?
Paul
· 2 years ago
Met, the Mini actually costs $300 more, and that will be the direction I go, because I am of the geek variety.
But everyone here (mostly) is of the geek type, so most of us are going to say "why doesn't it do this....?". I don't think that's the audience. The audience is somewhere between technically inept and sub-geek--like much of the population that has already bought HD TVs.
I think for what it is, and I think Terrin's description is best as of today, a steroid version of Airport Express. You're not stuck to iTunes content, just stuff that can be played in iTunes native formats (i.e., without video codec plug-ins that enable you to play other formats, like Divx, avi, wmv, etc--a mini would let you do this). For that, it is a work of genius and simple elegance. For some people, it may be worth it just to control their music colleciton from their living room. It's not for X-Box people. Why complain, you've got your X-Box.
So I am going the Mini route, but I wish they had stepped up the feature set just a notch with video codecs (that may be installed on the host PC) and net access (for various reasons, including buying legit content, or maybe even downloading not so legit content).
Remember, it takes MS at least 2 or 3 times to get it right, and this is ver 1. I'm sure some of these capabilities will come out via software revisions and future generations of the hardware. (I can't wait though...I'm going to have to spring for the mini, unless some good hacks show up in the next couple of weeks). I am actually surprised Apple was able to pull this off this well on the first go around.
I think the uber-geeks need to just respect it for what it is, and get what they need. Like the Apple TV, x-boxes are not for everyone, but they are probably better for a larger audience than the x-box.
Mac Season
· 2 years ago
I think it is a great product - pretty, easy and no hassle - and for those that already have a solution - you are not forced to buy it ;-)
I wonder - can you play a TS_Video folder? (ie a backed-up DVD?)
Oz Mello
· 2 years ago
I been reading post here and on other sites... One of the comon ideas is that why buy it when you can just get a DVI to HDMI cable and use it directly. The advanage there is you get you whole desktop etc. The big draw back is the the computer(s) have to be in the same room! or you have to run back and forth as you couldn't use the remote to find your media! ATV is great as for a lot of people as a computer extender to the living room.
Paul
· 2 years ago
I do not think you can play a TS_Video folder, unless iTunes plays it without any plug-ins. You can convert a DVD to MP4 using handbrake though. This takes about 30-60 minutes depending on your PC horsepower. I have used it to convert a load of my 2-year old's videos (the ones that are played over and over again), and those would work great on iTV, with about the same about of work as converting to a TS_Video folder.
In fact, if you want to convert content, you will be able to play almost anything, because there are various tools to convert all formats to MP4. However, I get a lot of content that is already Divx or avi (mostly) and I don't want to have to go through another generation of conversion (the time + possible quality degradation).
People are already ripping the thing apart to start the hacking. So it may not be long that WE geeks have some wider application of the Apple TV. A few weeks should tell...
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
#27: I just interviewed execs at TVTonic and they showed me a version that'll play my show. There are some bugs with my show and Vista that they say Apple is working on fixing.
Paul Roundy
· 2 years ago
Robert, didn't you prophesy that Apple TV was DOA back in January during MacWorld?
I think it rocks. Set it up in about 30 seconds and was off and running.
Apple TV's interface blow the 360's out of the water. It is much easier to use. And it has far more output choices than a 360. I still find it hard to believe that the 360 doesn't have an HDMI interface.
iTunes is the killer app in the whole Apple pantheon. It is much easier to buy media through itunes than on the 360. Using a keyboard to enter search criteria in the music store has advantages over scrolling through lists of crap on the 360. And itunes uses normal currency, not stupid Microsoft points.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Paul: yeah, I did say that. But, back then I didn't think it'd support 1080i.
swissfondue
· 2 years ago
Two reasons I'm not buying it (now). 1) In Europe you can't buy TV series nor Movies on the iTunes store (yet). 2) My SD TV does not have component-in, just Scart and S-Video.
Otherwise I would have bought it.
Chris G.
· 2 years ago
Man I want one now :(
I'd go completely cable less if it weren't for live content (ie: sports). I cannot go without watching the Red Sox and Patriots in HD, live. It is not a negotiable thing.
If I weren't a sports fan, I'd buy Apple TV in a moment and cancel Cable. I could buy a season pass show I watch and it would still be cheaper per year then cable.
Louis Gray
· 2 years ago
Robert, congratulations on your purchase. Mine shows up at the office today. I expect to suddenly fall ill and need to go home, only to miraculously recover.
It's my feeling that those criticizing the Apple TV as too expensive for too few features aren't getting it. They said the same thing about the iPod. Wrong then and wrong now.
I'm not even a big fan of the Apple TV (a bit too pricey for just streaming music, podcasts, and iTS content), and I don't see it being a really mainstream, breakthrough success until Apple (a) ups the quality of their movies to 720, and (b) offers either NetFlix-like subscriptions or rentals for movies.
That said, it looks like a well-executed device -- tightly focused, lot of polish and thought into a simple UE.
As for MS's 360-as-MCE-extender strategy.... even though it does more (PVR especially!), you only have to look at the size and noise of the 360 compared to the Apple TV to see the serious flaws in MS's living room approach. (That they expect you to use a 360 *game controller* as a remote to my mind speaks volumes here about the inability to reach a mainstream audience.) Get the noise down, include a real remote, figure out how to market a gaming console to the much larger audience of non-gamers... and then we've got a contender. 'til then, no dice.
@35. "Didn't think?" In other words you jumped to conclusions without doing any research? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!
Se7en
· 2 years ago
"Yawn. For the past few weeks I’ve been watching Comedy Central on demand using an XBox 360"
One thing great about the AppleTV launch and resulting comments on all the blogs-it shows that many Xbox360 owners are just as smug and full of themselves about their "shiny boxes" as Apple users are. :p
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
#41: I did do research. Apple at the time didn't say it'd support 1080i. Why does Apple thrill, though? They underpromise and overdeliver.
jason
· 2 years ago
I wonder how 1080i does over a 802.11G Network
Steve
· 2 years ago
I had a question that no one at the Apple store or Macworld could answer.
How well does Apple TV display photos as a slideshow? I am particularly interested in the case where the photos are stored in a directory on a Windows XP-based PC not and the photos are not being managed by iTunes or iPhoto (obviously).
Robert, any feedback on this use case would be appreciated.
Richard
· 2 years ago
My Apple tv is at the Fedex center 30 kilometers away so I'm not leaving the house today!
One thing...one word.... about the lack of this or that with the Apple TV.
Leopard!!!!!!
Just wait. The new operating system will add plenty of new punch to the Apple tv.
I'll bet my bottom dollar there will be vast improvements of the functionality when it comes out in about a month and a half. Then there are the hacks that will help as well. Seeing how easy this was to take apart...never seen a new tech product that was so easy to rip open...I'm sure the mods will be flowing forth in a very short time.
Paul Roundy
· 2 years ago
Steve, I think the photos look just fine. I haven't played much with the different settings for the photo screen saver yet, but what I saw was fine for me.
I have no idea about streaming from a Windows box, I am using iphoto.
All of the "doesn't have feature z, i can just run a cable across the ceiling down the stairs behind the furniture and plug it into my tv" complaints are time rich money poor complaints.
"But it just works, I don't care whehter it does z just let me see the stuff I have in iTunes" arguments are time poor money rich.
Bach
· 2 years ago
Here are some of the things I thing the people that "dont get it" don't get.
Its all about the user experience just like the iPod. You basically manage all your media (photos, music, video, podcast) on one computer and be able to enjoy it on the big screen basically hassel free.
I think ATV is for people who have more disposable income and not too much free time. The people that makes over $30/hr who after a long days work just want to turn it on and enjoy. This is an end to end solution that just works without having to think about it. Sure that are many other products that can do the same, but it takes effort and research to get everything that you want it to do. That is more for geeks and people that don't mind saving a little money by trading their time to tweak optimize their gears.
Why it will be successful? ITUNES. You manage everything in one place simple and ellegantly. You no longer need to store media on hard media, which takes up space, can get damaged, and sometimes hard to find. You can have thousands of songs on your iPods. Imagine listening to thousands of them on CDs with your CD players. You can do it, but the user experience between the using iPod and CDs... you get the picture.
Advantages? Now you can just buy a movie or TV show and watch it anytime with ATV and anywhere with your iPod. No commercial. No need for Tivo anymore. No need to buy or waste gas to rent DVDs anymore. On subscription TV services, you might only watch a few shows, but you have to pay for all the crap that you don't watch. Plus you have to schedule your time around the show instead of the other way around. If you have a night out with friends, guess you have to miss the show. So you can throw this out the door too if you use iTunes.
Why not get a Mac Mini? If you also have a computer in your room, which computer do you use to manage your media. If you use the the one in your room, what if you want to enjoy a movie or photos with friends and family on the big screen. If you have it on your mini, you can't use it in your room. Sure you can just copy it to the other computer, but that takes away from the simplicity of managing all your media in a central location. Also if you have friends that might bring over a laptop with something to show, you can do this with ATV very easily, but not with a Mac Mini.
Why not get a Laptop? Sure you can craw behind the TV and plug it in with a HDMI cable and unplug it as needed. But do you really want to do this everytime. And I don't know about the durability of these connectors if you plug and unplug everyday. Might be less hassel and cheaper to get an ATV then risking damaging the ports.
Bottom line. If your time is valuble or if you just want a simple and elegant way to enjoy your media, ATV is for you. Its a no brainer.
Get it? Got it.
Richard
· 2 years ago
#48
There are so many podcast out there that are now using high def. I do think that the availability of podcast on a hd tv will be a door that opens up much of this to the none podcast community. A whole world will open up and that may indeed be the future of tv in general.
Not only can you install Divx/Xvid codecs, but *any* QuickTime plug-in on the Apple TV (also enabling Windows Media files via Flip4Mac).
Prior to this, I thought the Apple TV was like as if they had released the iPod without MP3 support.
This, combined with easily upgrading the hard drive and other easy hacks makes this a must-have device for me, despite already owning a bunch of other digital media players for my TVs.
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
Sorry, bro, but you are wrong on this one. It doesn't DO 1080 video.
The max resolution of the video formats that it will handle is 720p. You are confusing this with the fact that it will output video to 1080i, however, the source video is still 720p.
Also, since the 360 has downloadable content similar to what Apple is offering, an MCE isn't even needed to view videos on the 360, so 360 isn't beat their either.
I'm very surprised that you bought this as it offers nothing new to your home theater.
Ian Muir
· 2 years ago
I think XBOX 360 wins because you can't play Dead Rising on Apple TV.
That being said, I will probably end up with both of them.
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
Oh and you don't need a Windows MCE box to send video to your 360 either. There's software out there that will allow you to send media of all kinds from your Mac.
bottom line is it has more to do with the set YOU own and the device (STB/appleTV/etc) YOU own, not the standard.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Alex and Jeremy, the point is well established that Scoble can't actually recognize the difference in resolutions, he just wants to believe he's got the biggest and the best.
He's enjoying the device despite watching lower-rez content and not having a clue.
That's all that matters.
JoeT
· 2 years ago
"I’d go completely cable less if it weren’t for live content (ie: sports)." -- Chris G. @37
Put up an antenna. I've gotten all my local stations (Chicago) that way for the last couple of years. Of course, the Cubs have been awful since my antenna went up (2/2004), so not all has been good.
"Sorry, bro, but you are wrong on this one. It doesn’t DO 1080 video." -- Alex Scoble
So, do I have to reinstate the stuff I took back that I originally said?
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
By the way Jeremy, in this case, the web sites you linked to are hardly valid. Sure, you could argue that 720P at 60 FPS is better than 1080i at 30 FPS, at least for motion, but in this case, the best that Apple TV can do is 720P at 24 FPS.
Also the second web site is showing incorrect depictions of what usually happens in interlaced video. What it is actually showing are interlace errors where two fields (half-frames) are deinterlaced in the wrong order. When two fields are deinterlaced in the correct order you get an accurate and sharp picture.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Joet
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Weird, my whole post got truncated to one word?
JoeT, no, wait for confirmation. Clearly Apple is playing it safe with their tech specs, and Alex is not speaking with any authority.
The tech specs say a widescreen is required; it is not. Apple played it safe with codec support, but with the launch explanded it (although only minorly).
There is every reason to believe that 1080i is supported. Framerates and hiccups may be a concern which is why they are being conservative.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Alex: Goebbels is right. I'm not going to watch Discovery Channel content on Apple TV. It will be interesting to compare the quality of high-grade video between Apple TV and Media Center. If I were going to watch movies through it I might care, but for now I'm using HD-DVD, which is a lot better quality than Apple TV and generally easier (and cheaper) to get videos from (I have Netflix).
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
3. Apple TV doesn’t stream stuff? (that’s the impression I got from the Gizmodo article) Like I want to wait for things to sync before I start looking at them.
From Macworld:
The Apple TV can also stream content from up to five computers. To do so, navigate to the Sources menu on the Apple TV, select Connect to New iTunes, and a new PIN number appears. Enter this PIN number into the Apple TV preferences on the new computer’s copy of iTunes, and iTunes will tell you you’re in sync. You can now stream content from that computer’s library to the Apple TV.
Still not getting one, because my TV works. Not HD, not SD with component video. Last thing I watched? Season one of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea". HD, until it is as cheap as my (now) 7 year old TV, is so not on my horizon, unless it's accidently.
Jordan
· 2 years ago
DVDs are still better for two reasons, one of which I've seen addressed:
1) 5.1 sound. There's a discussion going on at Macintouch about this. Some QuickTime formats support this, some don't. But the movies you buy from Apple have mere stereo sound.
2) CHAPTER BREAKS! Nobody talks about this, but it makes a tremendous difference. For movie buffs like me, the ability to step through a movie scene by scene (not scroll through using an imprecise potentiometer-style display or by holding down a button and watching the video scan rapidly by) is a feature I really don't want to lose.
I could mention commentary tracks, too.
kosso
· 2 years ago
Isn't it just like a big wireless hard disk connected to telly with a FrontRow UI?
I thought it didn't stream content to the box/tv from your pc. I thought it syncs/copies them over for playback?
Can you confirm?
I have had a TV out for yeeears with a tv or projector hooked up. Logitech did nice job on their 'lean back' media player, controlling it via their bluetooth controller.
Soon portable media players will have much more power and equal quality to these Apple boxes (iTunes hard drives with a tv-out) and they'll record what you want and let you play it where you want.
I'm sure this Apple TV is a nice product. They do make nice hardware. But to 'it rocks' might be an overstatement? Hmm? ;)
It just doesn't seem revolutionary at all. Maybe its just about the simplicity for all the iTunes users who are already forced into using that interface for their padlocked content. ;p
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Yes, kosso, for the tenth time it streams.
It syncs/copies to/from the main library for the most reliable playback, but it can also stream from any of up to 5 PCs on the network. (Most valuable when guests want to play THEIR photo slideshow, music, or videos from their laptops.)
Other key features that make it unique:
It does go direct to the internet (if only to get trailers... the potential is there) using 802.11n if you have it.
It preserves pauses across the ecosystem of TV-PC-iPod so that you can resume viewing across all your devices.
It does not require a PC so, yes, it can be used like a portable media player once loaded with content and connected to other TVs. (I could easily imagine ripping a few films to bring along on trips... housesitting, etc...)
If you are consuming TV shows from iTS via subscription, it automatically loads the latest episodes and deletes watched episodes.
kosso
· 2 years ago
Thanks Goebbels for clearing that up :)
I like that pausing thing too. That's a nice feature.
Is it up to 5 pcs 'ever'? or does that mean '5 at once?' - what I mean is, are these machines 'registered' with the device, a bit like limiting the pcs you can plug an ipod in to, without wiping it?
Still. I love my Archos devices. I dont have HD yet.
Thx for the info
jbelkin
· 2 years ago
First as you point out - if it's not for you, it doesn't mean it's not for everyone else either nor that Apple shouldn't sells something that doesn't comform to 100% of your needs - just buy something else ...
BTw, I can listen to OGG in itunes with a plug in - I presume if it shows up in itunes, it can "seen" by AppleTV itunes?
LayZ
· 2 years ago
@59 "the Cubs have been awful since my antenna went up (2/2004), so not all has been good"
Careful! You may end up being another Steve Bartman. Take that antenna down so the Cubs start winning!!
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
kosso, the Source list only stores 5 PC "names." (Why the limitation, I don't know. But it's aimed to be a simple way of aggregating the potential large and disparate libraries of a household and preserving that list for easy, family use.)
That does not prevent you from linking to the libraries of any random PC on the network nor is there any "registration".
(Whether you can avoid the "Source" list entirely or need to bump one entry or leave entries open, I haven't determined yet. (I'm working off research and what I've heard/seen from a couple of friends.))
jbelkin, no. This is not a safe presumption. It is safe to presume that many are already working on the hacks, and that within a few weeks/months there will be several simple installs to enable it.
JoeT
· 2 years ago
"Careful! You may end up being another Steve Bartman. Take that antenna down so the Cubs start winning!!" --Comment by LayZ
Hey-- I've thought about it! Man-- it's another spring training with Prior doing his best Fidrych impersonation. BTW, I was on a flight with Bartman maybe a year and a half ago.
Back to the Apple-- can the box stream from a PC that doesn't have a user logged in? That is, does a user have to be logged in on the PC and iTunes running in order to stream to the Apple TV?
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Okay, I have clarification on the "Sources" list. It has a list of the 5 PCs you add to the "Sources" list if you choose, another option to find New iTunes Libraries (which allows you to link to any PC it finds on the currently active network (which you can also change), and an option to de-couple the syncing or choose a new main PC for syncing. (At setup and through this last option, you can avoid syncing entirely and just stream).
Harshad Joshi
· 2 years ago
A pic of the Apple TV in action would have been more effective and useful.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
iTunes does not need to be running, but iTunes must be present. (An iTunes Library must be generated with the available content; content not added to the library does not appear (and unsupported content even if the content is supported via QuickTime and/or additional codec support does not appear either even if it is in the iTunes library).)
linkbox
· 2 years ago
Can't wait to get my hands on it. I have had something similar for a while now (Dreambox) but the design and software on Apple TV make it irresistible.
Greg Kefalas
· 2 years ago
"It doesn't have feature X, Y, or Z, which this thing that costs the same||less||more does."
Same things said about the iPhone. Same things said about the iPod.
360's nice, no doubt, but does no one ever /learn/ from the past?
Se7en
· 2 years ago
"By the way Jeremy, in this case, the web sites you linked to are hardly valid."
Uh..those links are to Alvy Ray Smith's website. Let's see, whose opinion about TV should I go with here...a dude on Scoble's comments, or ALVY FUCKING RAY SMITH'S :p
Eddie Codel
· 2 years ago
Robert, how does GETV look on it? I'm curious since I started putting out 640x480 versions to accommodate Apple TV. Lemme know.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Eddie: I'll check that out tonight. Basically if it plays on iTunes it should work great.
kveljones
· 2 years ago
Help a newbie videoblogger..... Does this mean I should no longer compress my files..... I am concerned that my 15mb 4 min files will look terrible via appletv...
Jeremy Toeman
· 2 years ago
#80 - glad to see a few ppl check sources. :)
rick
· 2 years ago
360?? are you guys for real? i have one and there's no way i'm putting that in my bedroom WAY to noisy!!
alan smith
· 2 years ago
I have a Mac Mini (Intel Core Duo) with an internal HD of 120 GB and an external LaCie HD that sits underneath with the same footprint as the Mini adding another 240 GB. This Mini has 1 GB RAM and can display resolutions of 1200, 1440 1536. In addition, it is hooked up to my cable box via an analog to digital video converter. With free software (Vidi) I can record movies and tv shows. It is also hooked into my 7.1 reciever via the digital audio out port. My 60 GB iPod is connected to the receiver. It also serves as my wireless server for my house. It is quiet, does not really get hot and runs 24 hours a day. It is so small that it takes up little space in my tv/music center. I can (if I wanted to) install Vista or XP with Bootcamp to run Windows games (maybe some day). I can watch DVDs, make DVDs. But I keep my movies in MPEG4 format. With the right codecs for Quicktime it can play most video formats. So the best desktop box is a Mini.
Brian Andrews
· 2 years ago
Robert,
You hit the nail on the head--Apple TV is the big bang for independent content! Video podcasts, independent films, shorts, how-to videos, training videos. This is opening the door of distribution all the way to the family room.
My site, http://www.hungryflix.com, offers downloads of independent films for the iPod. We are now working on offering higher res for Apple TV.
This is very exciting.
Troy
· 2 years ago
I think Tivo is cool, and AppleTV is cool. Both let you access Internet videos on your TV, but...
(1) Price for Content: AppleTV controls the iTunes store, so you are going to pay for seeing video. Tivo has a hefty monthly fee and will be charging for premium content as well.
(2) Live Video: neither support live video, so forget about breaking news, sports, live shows.
Regarding the other solutions, the media extenders, they are great for technies, but lame for the average joe (I know, you are a techie). I know no one that has had success with a PC connected to their computer that was not techie, really.
Solution... well, I have been working on one, the StreamSurfer. It is a device that has a one time fee, costs $299 and lets you access WM video from the net. We hope to add Flash video to it in the coming weeks to, so users can watch their YouTube video, etc.
Anyway, if you are interested in learning more about it, or have any ideas, please let me know, you can find me through http://www.streamsurfer.tv.
Of course, I am a techie, have a Mac and a PC, and look forward to getting an AppleTV unit as well.
Cheers!
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
kvel: you need to compress your videos to make sure your distribution costs don't get too high (your users might stop downloading if your files get too big). But, you might offer two versions: one high res, one low. That's what Rocketboom does.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
360?? are you guys for real? i have one and there’s no way i’m putting that in my bedroom WAY to noisy!!
While playing in the bedroom is great, the Xbox 360 is the WRONG kind.
james
· 2 years ago
“By the way Jeremy, in this case, the web sites you linked to are hardly valid.”
Alvy Ray Smith not valid re explaining resolutions?
Shakes head.
macsego
· 2 years ago
Apple INC., The company that offers more. People can complain about the APPLE TV, however, most are missing the point. Apple Inc. has created a machine that in the coming years will GROW with software updates and hard-drive space. Just think, at this point Apple is getting into the living room and offering all your media except games. Nevertheless, if you know this company as I know it, there is many possibilities that apple could do with this machine. They mostly want go into gaming, because the gaming business sucks. Look at the numbers. Xbox 360 does not carry a big profit for Microsoft! Some here have posted that they have this and that in their living room. Great!!! However, some of us like to have clutter free homes with no wires running everywhere and machines that run. Again, if I know apple, this is just the start to something BIGGER.
james
· 2 years ago
While playing in the bedroom is great, the Xbox 360 is the WRONG kind.
Remember, this is coming from a newlywed. Give him a couple years : ).
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
Heh not a newlywed yet :-)
Besides, I was married once before, and the whole slowdown thing? Never really happened :-P
"Oh and you don’t need a Windows MCE box to send video to your 360 either. There’s software out there that will allow you to send media of all kinds from your Mac."
Yeah, but I have to convert all the media to WMV first. Thank you for giving me the impression that there was an alternate solution and launcing me head first into a pile of crap. Did you do this on purpose, Alex? This is *almost* like saying, 'You can send video to your 360 from your Mac so forget the Apple TV!' and then giving us a link to Boot Camp.
Boooooooo! I say.
Dan The Man
· 2 years ago
I think what people don't get is that Appleis taking the power of computers and making them into appliances. Need to wash your dishes? Put them in and a press button. Need to make toast? Put your bread in a toaster and press a lever. This is the secret to why Apple is so successful, they bring teh appliance philosophy to items no one else does. Therefore, yes Apple TV is not for everyone; but for a large slice of people who want functionality without hassle or complexity, their products are king. as far as functionality, Steve learned long ago (circa the Newton) that no matter how cool and full featured you can make an item, the general public is not ready for that when a new product is launched. Start with a simple, reliable concept that fills a niche better than anyone else; once you get critical mass add features. Look at the iPod: there is really nothing it does today it couldn't have done 6 years ago. But from music, we now have games, video etc. If anyone thinks the iPhone is not going to change the game too, they are sadly mistaken. Mark the words of the naysayers and come back in three years to see them all retracting their previous positions. DTM
LayZ
· 2 years ago
@91 and @97: Wait! You mean to tell me we have a hack Computerworld blogger questioning the reliability of the co-founder of Pixar, and recognized expert in graphics? Incredible! That's the blogosphere for ya! Anyone with a blog can pawn themselves off as an authority.
Jordan
· 2 years ago
@99
Good point except I assume you realize that Jobs had nothing to do with the Newton; that is was the brainchild of John Sculley; that Jobs killed the project shortly after his return to Apple in 1996/7.
There's nothing wrong with your point! It just bears emphasizing that the Newton is NOT a Jobs creation and probably embodies both the best and worst qualities of Apple in the non-Jobs period.
james
· 2 years ago
@101 yep , it seems everyone and their brother can have their own blog. : )
rydlp15
· 2 years ago
Apple vs Microsoft Software vs Hardware Now Apple is taking the advantage, do you think Microsoft will stay behind or will cross the line to do what I think they will do, and how they will do it? What do you think?
Jordan
· 2 years ago
This XBox 360 vs. Apple TV debate focuses on the merits of the two systems and largely ignores issues of brand recognition and brand loyalty.
Nearly all the enthusiasm garnered by Apple TV results from people instantly thinking, "If Apple's doing it, it's going to work."
"Work" in several senses: the device will work (it will do what Apple says it will do); the system/network/store/formats etc. will work (because Apple has earned consumer and analyst trust with iPod/iTunes) and, finally, the SCHEME will work (since Apple has proven that they know what's around the corner, in the near future, in these kinds of volatile markets).
At a certain point Microsoft has to face the fact that customers and Wall Street don't really trust them to get anything right. It's not just the clumsy market positioning or the sudden strategy reversals (like PlaysForSure); it's a twenty-year history of corporate moves that, taken together, create a composite image of a shifty, bullying company that makes extremely complicated and confusing products and services that constantly change.
A person in a store with a credit card looks at Apple TV and thinks, "What are the chances, at some point down the line, that I'm going to feel like I got screwed if I buy this?"
Then they think, "It's Apple," and that soothes their fears.
You can list all the superior XBox features you want. But it doesn't matter. At a certain point consumers just trust that Apple logo to shield them from industry stupidity, strategic mis-steps, and even their own ignorance of the technology. Microsoft's brand conveys none of these qualities.
It's the reason the Zune was conspicuously lacking any Microsoft branding. This could be the biggest problem Microsoft faces. In fact, it's a fatal flaw, at this point.
FraudWasteAbuse
· 2 years ago
Apple TV users will probably be forced to use iTunes so I definitely won't buy it.
Blake Lewis
· 2 years ago
Scob, you said you've got one how much did u pay for that? Got coupons?
willtoons
· 2 years ago
I am happy you finally got an Apple TV! I am glad that it does such a good job. I am not getting an AppleTV yet becuase I haven't bothered with getting a HDTV yet.
I found a "work around" solution. Monster Cables makes a really good cord that allows you to hook your iPod to your TV set. It allows you to use your S-Video, which looks wonderful, as well as your audio and video AV cables (red-yellow-white). Very durable and high quality! I have a 27 inch SDTV so all my SNL reruns look beautiful, expeciallly in widescreen mode. My wife's favorite movie that she bought at the iTunes store, Coyote Ugly, was amazingly better than DVD quality. If the rumors hold true, we'll all be encoding video in 1080p or 1080i on our macs soon. Enjoy your AppleTV! For the rest of us, go get some Monster Cables! And don't forget your AC plug that you can hook a USB cord to so you can keep your Video iPods nice and charged up! I probably said more here than on my own blog so I had better say goodbye!
Shawn Oster
· 2 years ago
Like many others on here... I just don't get Apple TV, especially considering the fact that it's completely over-priced.
Sure, Apple makes some good stuff, but here are the ways they completely screwed up:
1. No volume control on the remote.
2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content but iTunes content is only 480p. Gee, how great is the fact that Apple TV does 1080i when you can only get iTunes content at SD quality? Upscaling is not a substitute for true HD.
3. No photo streaming? Seriously? Robert, how can you even begin to praise Apple TV without photo streaming? I thought you and Thomas Hawk were big into your Photo Walking thing. How can you accept a product that ignores photos?
4. Over-priced.
5. No cables.
6. Integrated wifi. For some odd reason people consider this a plus but I have a wired home, I don't need wifi and I hate the fact that I'm forced to pay for it. I much prefer the XBox 360 modular approach, if you need WiFi, buy it, otherwise stick with the ethernet. I don't feel like footing the bill for something I don't need.
7. No management via the interface. You are actually OK with using your LAPTOP to purchase/manage iTunes content? I can just imagine having to explain to my wife that when she wants to purchase a new movie she needs to drag out her laptop from office upstairs.
Apple has completely failed to make a product for the living room consumer segment. Apple TV is a nice toy for those that hand over their money to the iTunes store but that's about it.
Jordan
· 2 years ago
@Shawn Oster (111):
I refer you to my comment (106) above.
DaveD
· 2 years ago
@111... let me ffer a rebuttal.
1. No volume control on the remote.
You already have to use that other remote to set your TV source. So what's the big deal that you'll have to also use it for the volume?
2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content but iTunes content is only 480p.
Not only does your bias show, your ignorance does too. It's not limited to what the iTunes _Store_ offers, it's (somewhat) limited to what iTunes _plays_. Software exists to take your HD content and make it playable in iTunes. ANd hardware hacks are already cropping up to play virtually any codex too.
3. No photo streaming? Seriously?
For now. Apple has already said they'll have that working shortly.
4. Over-priced.
Any yet, its still quite a bit less than your so-called "better solution". Oh, and quieter, with a much smaller footprint.
5. No cables.
Since there's about 3 different ways to cable up a HDTV, I prefer making my own decision as to what I need. Since I hold stock in AAPL- as I've had for 26 months - I prefer they don't ship unneeded cables. Keeps the cost down, and the profits up.
Speaking of holding AAPL and profits, how's MSFT been doing the last 5 years? How much profit is XBox bringing in? Oh wait, that's right....
6. Integrated wifi. For some odd reason people consider this a plus but I have a wired home, I don’t need wifi and I hate the fact that I’m forced to pay for it. I much prefer the XBox 360 modular approach, if you need WiFi, buy it, otherwise stick with the ethernet. I don’t feel like footing the bill for something I don’t need.
Two things.
First, you chastise aTV for the lack of cables. Yet you find the lack of WiFi a feature of XBox? Interesting take.
Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV.
7. No management via the interface. You are actually OK with using your LAPTOP to purchase/manage iTunes content? I can just imagine having to explain to my wife that when she wants to purchase a new movie she needs to drag out her laptop from office upstairs.
Talk about people who don't get it. Wow.
First, that's what the WiFi is for. She doesn't have to drag out her laptop from the office. She simply has to go upstairs to it, make her purchase, and sync it up via that WiFi.
Second, that WiFi (or ethernet, it uses either) means that aTV is already hooked to the internet. Apple has already said the device runs a version of OS X and that they'll have software update. Is it possible that they might allow you to purchase iTunes content in the future?
Third, let's debunk that manage iTunes content part of your statement right now. You manage your aTV content through the remote. Period.
Fourth. Your so-called better solution. Purchasing content. Hmph.
Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on.
Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways. First, each movie is available for rental only during a several-week window–then it’s gone. Second, you have to start watching the movie within two weeks of downloading it. Third, once you start watching it, you have to finish watching within 24 hours.
In each case, the movie is lost forever if you’re tardy.
Yeah, now THAT'S a much better solution.
LayZ
· 2 years ago
@111. I always find it funny when geeks and nerds seem to think the represent the general populace. You seem to be making the assumption that most normal people have hard wired net taps in every room in their home. I contend you are the exception to most normal people. Most normal people have ONE net tap running into their home. (Moreover, for a high percentage of people, that "net tap" is also their phone line.).
Are you also saying that when looking at the two options, just from a design perspective people would prefer the loud, clunky XBOX360 device sitting in their family room (or even bedroom)? I will concede you point about lack UI access from the device, and the lack of photo streaming.
No cables? Last I checked the XBOX360 console didn't come with HDMI or component cables, so that's a bit of a wash wouldn't you say?
Eric Rice
· 2 years ago
I wanted to buy one for my dad for his birthday, but, widescreen only. He has a nice tube television that is 4:3 and it *might* work. Bad.
I'm a geek, I have an XBOX, a media center, and maybe an Apple TV. I *could* but probably *won't* ever use the XBOX for anything other than gaming.
At least Apple has that ipod-for-TV spin, but if we can't stream, not sure how that plays out.
Then again, DirecTV/DISH (which people have has a built in recorder) is a tough competitor. Getting dozens of components could be annoying, yet we'll do it.
We can look at the Apple TV in isolation all day long-- that's what geeks do so well-- but we might miss how the world works outside of our sphere.
Ji-won Choi
· 2 years ago
Great discussion - I always enjoy discussions that more or less boil down to Apple vs Microsoft. Reason? Because whatever the question is, the answer is in their mentality. And #99 puts it very accurately. To this end, it's amusing to see some people bringing up resolution specs as if it is the one fatal flaw of aTV that will sink it. Again, can I refer you to #99, #106 and specifically first part of #52.
I will never own a 360 for reasons that are irrelevant to this post although some have been highlighted in previous posts, and the idea of streaming my contents to my TV via wifi is an attractive model. Incidentally, it is surprising how #111 doesn't seem to mind wires - if you are a "geek", you should be well aware of the problems with wire overload (behind my TV is like a den of thin, black serpents). If you are not a geek, then you ought to enjoy the no clutter approach. Anyway well done Dave for a great rebuttal (#114).
Paul
· 2 years ago
@106: "You can list all the superior XBox features you want. But it doesn’t matter. At a certain point consumers just trust that Apple logo to shield them from industry stupidity, strategic mis-steps, and even their own ignorance of the technology. Microsoft’s brand conveys none of these qualities."
I'm the biggest Mac geek there is, but even I don't see MS in such black-and-white terms. For example, while overall I think Microsoft's corporate image is tarnished in exactly the way you suggest, I am aware that they have bet big on the X-Box and this technology is not going to be abandoned anytime soon, as I think most other people are too. X-Box purchasers seem to me to be rational (though I admit I wouldn't buy one, myself, I'm stil saving for a PS3/Blu-ray home upgrade. But those who think the X-Box renders the Apple TV unnecessary don't seem to me to be so rational.
@111, who said: "2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content".
Gee, let's see ... the Apple TV's playable video formats: H.264, protected MPEG4, and UNprotected MPEG4. Notice something about two of these formats? They are leading edge, even beyond the leading edge, and they aren't controlled by Apple.
Now, X-Box's playable video formats: WMV and MPEG2. MPEG2?!?! Gee, thanks, Microsoft.
I'm glad that I sparked to do this research by these vaunted claims I read here because now I know exactly why nobody I know with an X-Box uses it for video.
And before anyone tells me that you can hack the X-Box to play more, I just read that you can hack the Apple TV to play EVERYTHING so you've got no advantage to press with me here.
Out of the box, it is very clear that Apple TV is the far superior compressed video playback solution, if you consider the whole channel (i.e. am I going to want to store things in these formats so that they can fit the conditions at the end of the channel?)
Now why doesn't somebody support XviD out of the box and blow the doors off both of these idiots? And an XviD streamer would literally NOT HAVE DO TO A SINGLE OTHER THING TO BE ENORMOUSLY SUCCESSFUL, so make it simple, stupids, and don't shoot yourselves in the foot like Netgear!
This is what Apple does right. They figure out what is X, as in the what is the minimum feature set required to fulfill a desire or a need, and then they view any form of X + Y as a drawback, not a feature. In other words they look very hard at the optimum feature-to-complexity part of the curve, and they're smart enough not to pat themselves on the back for climbing out of it.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
For example, while overall I think Microsoft’s corporate image is tarnished in exactly the way you suggest, I am aware that they have bet big on the X-Box and this technology is not going to be abandoned anytime soon, as I think most other people are too.
There is a list as long as you like of "tech that won't be abandoned anytime soon" because the company is "betting on it big"
OpenDoc The Newton Cross-platform Active X Plays4Sure Cross-Platform NT
etc.
Apple, Microsoft, IBM, all of them have, and will continue to abandon things if they see the need. To think anything else is silly.
bogdan
· 2 years ago
cool... pity one cannot see apple tv in romania...
"Apple, Microsoft, IBM, all of them have, and will continue to abandon things if they see the need. To think anything else is silly."
Strawman, meet John Welch.
I didn't say they wouldn't abandon it if they saw the need. But there clearly ARE degrees of commitment to a product (to try to contradict that would be just as silly as your comical version of my argument, wouldn't it?) This is a fact that can't be denied.
I don't think Microsoft will stick with the X-Box for a while because they say they will (they say that about everything -- but just talk isn't "betting big"). I think Microsoft will stick with the X-Box for a while because it's obviously IN THEIR INTEREST.
In other words, I don't trust Microsoft, but I trust Microsoft to BE Microsoft. The X-Box will be around for a while yet.
Shawn Oster
· 2 years ago
@Jordon (106)
I'll agree that the worst thing going for Microsoft is Microsoft brand itself BUT the XBox is actually one of the few areas that has escaped the blackhole that is "just another crappy Microsoft product".
I know Mac and Linux users as well as non-tech users that love their XBox 360. I've often overheard people say "XBox is the one thing Microsoft has done right" or "If they put J Allard in charge of more things maybe Microsoft could create something useful."
The real issue isn't people being turned off of using the XBox 360 as a media extender because of it being a Microsoft product, it's the fact that Microsoft hasn't done anything to promote the media experience side of the 360. Unless you actually own a 360 most people don't know everything you can do with it.
Personally I think they're holding off on the whole "XBox as a home entertainment hub" marketing until they get IPTV nailed down. Then they'll release a version that is marketed towards the living room media segment vs. the gaming segment.
Perhaps the biggest reason I get so frustrated on this issue is that I'm perhaps a more tech savy user than that average consumer, so I don't need a brand to make me feel good about a purchase. I could care less if something is from a name brand or some generic, no-name, white-box ACME brand. I have the skill set determine if a product is good based on it's actual merits, not on slick marketing, but I do understand that if tech isn't someone's speciality they will end up putting more stock in a name.
Shawn Oster
· 2 years ago
@LayZ (115)
Actually I know I'm not the norm when it comes to having a hardwired house and I'm always very aware that I'm not the normal consumer segment. Heck, the only reason I have drops all over the house is simply because we bought new and that's the new thing these days, every phone jack is also an ethernet port. I was suprised as hell, but pleasently so, to find a patch panel in my closet. Every new house and townhouse in my area has the same setup, comes stock.
That actually wasn't my point though, it was that it was nice to have the option with the 360 vs. having to eat the cost regardless if you needed it or not.
Jordan
· 2 years ago
@124,
Sure, that's a good point, but I think it loses some of its potency once you get beyond the realm of pure gaming and into the "living room media hub" realm, where nearly all non-tech customers and even many computer-savvy people suddenly become very confused, very fast.
It was only a few years ago that the computer was on your desk for work and the VCR or DVD player was in the living room connected to your television and next to your analog cable box and your stereo with your racks of CDs and it all made sense. The biggest hurdle was memorizing which remote did what.
Now the industry is asking everyone to abandon all of that, and replace it with...what?
Basically, with a murkily-defined, bewildering set of options that has them suddenly worried about DRM; about file formats; about NTSC vs. HD; about Plays4Sure vs. FairPlay; about portable devices and their games/songs/movies/ringtones/voice messages/emails/trailers/blogs/rss/photographs/home video/podcasts. Go the wrong direction, buy the wrong expensive machine, and you could end up with a media library that doesn't work or is the wrong format or won't play in a week or doesn't have the right subtitles or languages or DVD region capabilites.
My point is that even "we" (geeks) have to really concentrate and keep track. I pay very close attention, and I'm still stuck with an entire season of LOST at 320x240 that Apple won't replace with the new versions, because that's not how it works...and I'm the one holding Apple up as one of the EASY choices.
It's easy to miss how frightening and confusing all this is. Getting a televsion program from the internet onto a television through an XBox is something that would make nearly anyone's head hurt, even though (tragically) it might be the best solution.
(P.S. It's "Jordan" with an "a")
Shawn Oster
· 2 years ago
@ DaveD (114)
Ohh, I love rebuttals :)
- "You already have to use that other remote to set your TV source."
It's a matter of frequency. You set the TV source once at the beginning while you probably want to adjust the volume quite a bit more during normal viewing. This issue could be a wash though if you can map the remote functions to a universal remote, like my Logitech Harmony remote which controls everything, including my reciever, TV, DVD playser, XBox 360 and Sonos, all with a single remote.
- "Not only does your bias show, your ignorance does too."
I thought my bias was apparant from the start? Sorry, I tried to make it clear :) Just to make sure none of us are too ignorant Apple TV can *not* play everything that iTunes can. Also my point as that the only *advantage* in terms of video playback between Apple TV and the XBox 360 was that ATV can play iTunes while the 360 can't.
Also, all "hardware hacks" are disqualified from this discussion. You can almost always hack anything to work however you want it. What we are talking about is the average consumer out-of-box, as-designed experience.
- "For now. Apple has already said they’ll have that working shortly."
It's odd, some companies seem to get raked over the coals for making users apply updates after a product ships to activate functionality that should have been there on day one, yet others get praised for releasing a product at all and being so kind and giving that they add basic functionality later via a patch.
- "Any yet, its still quite a bit less than your so-called 'better solution'. Oh, and quieter, with a much smaller footprint."
Must be in how you do the math. I can pick up a XBox 360 Core system, retail, for the exact same price as an Apple TV. My 360 is rather quiet when not playing games since the fan isn't spinning, I can't even hear it in my entertainment center. Can't argue about the smaller footprint, though since I'm not actually hurting for space this issue is a wash.
I don't see how bringing earnings into the picture actually affects a technical discussion between two pieces of hardware. This isn't an Apple vs. Microsoft issue with me. You could wipe all branding from both products, never tell me who made either, even put both inside the same box, and these are still the exact issues I'd have.
For the record though MSFT stock is actually up I believe, at one of the higher points it's been in 5 years.
- "First, you chastise aTV for the lack of cables. Yet you find the lack of WiFi a feature of XBox? Interesting take."
Not really, I'm asking for consistancy. If Apple is going for an easy-to-use, out-of-box experience then they should include cables. You should be good to go the second you open that box. Cables are cheap.
"Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV."
*AHEM* an ethernet port generates about as much heat as that diagnostic USB port on the back of the aTV. *AHEM* the fan doesn't run when using an XBox as a media streamer/DVR extender.
- "Talk about people who don’t get it. Wow. First, that’s what the WiFi is for. She doesn’t have to drag out her laptop from the office. She simply has to go upstairs to it, make her purchase, and sync it up via that WiFi."
*laugh* sorry, but you pretty much proved my point. Having to touch your computer to watch TV is ridiculous. If you have to leave your couch at any point in the media watching experience then it has failed. My wife doesn't want to go upstairs, boot her computer, touch her computer, SEE her computer to watch TV. She is not a nerd like us and sees the computer as just another tool. Seriously, "simply go upstairs, make purchase, sync via wifi" is about 3 steps too many.
The whole issue gets worse when I imagine having to explain the "simple" process of finding a computer, making a purchase and then syncing to visiting friends or family. I'd have to create an instruction sheet just so they could purchase the latest episode of CSI.
- "Is it possible that they might allow you to purchase iTunes content in the future?"
Sure, it's also possible that in the future there will be some other product that is still better than the aTV, or that FairPlay will be opened up, or that a new IPTV version of the 360 will be out by then, or some third-party will have something better than either the aTV or x360, so let's just stick with what the thing can do now, shall we?
"Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on."
You see, I learn something new everyday. I didn't realize that you could purchase HD movies from the iTunes Store and then burn them and copy them to other machines. That's great! Seriously, that right there gives the iTunes store a huge advantage. I'm curious, how much do the movie purchases cost? So you can really keep them forever? Are you allowed to download them again? Is there no limit to how often you burn them? Speaking of that, are they in 720p or 1080p (or even i)?
Last, what format are the HD movies that you can buy from the iTunes Store in? Since you lambast copy-protection schemes I assume they're not even in some FairPlay copy-protected format either? Are they divx? That's awesome! I had no idea you could just buy unprotected HD movies from iTunes.
"Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways."
Yes, you are *renting* the movies but I fail to see how the rental limits matter. Why would you rent a movie if you weren't ready to watch it? I will say though that it does take about 20 minutes from purchase (at your TV) to watching it, while it downloads enough to start viewing. That's annoying. How about the iTunes Store, how long does it take before you can start watching an HD movie?
Also, that only applies for movies. When you purchase TV shows you have them forever. If you decide to delete an episode you can also always redownload it later. So even if a water pipe bursts and your 360 is destroyed you can buy a new 360, log in and redownload every TV episode you've ever purchased.
Whew, that was a long rebuttal but I do want to point out one thing... I'm brand agnostic, I don't care about Apple vs. Microsoft or Ford vs. Chevy or Democrate vs. Republican. I want the best value for my dollar, the best idea regardless of who it comes from, the best car that fits my needs, the best canidate that is inline with what I want for me and my family.
From what I want to do in my living, for my entire family, for how I use media, Apple TV is too expensive and too under-whelming for what it does. For the record I was actually interested in buying an Apple TV. I use a 360 in my living room for all our DVR, video and photo needs but I thought an Apple TV for a secondary TV would be nice. Given the price and limitations though there goes that idea. Maybe if it hits a more realistic $99 price point.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
I didn’t say they wouldn’t abandon it if they saw the need. But there clearly ARE degrees of commitment to a product (to try to contradict that would be just as silly as your comical version of my argument, wouldn’t it?) This is a fact that can’t be denied.
Paul, meet Plays4Sure. Anything else?
Must be in how you do the math. I can pick up a XBox 360 Core system, retail, for the exact same price as an Apple TV. My 360 is rather quiet when not playing games since the fan isn’t spinning, I can’t even hear it in my entertainment center. Can’t argue about the smaller footprint, though since I’m not actually hurting for space this issue is a wash.
That's interesting. Because I'm on the Xbox.com site, "Which console for you" site at http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/compare101.htm, and i see that it appears that you can't do anything BUT stream from a PC or play CDs and DVDs on a core system. To use Live, or save even game data, you have to buy a hard drive or memory cards. Now, if all you care about are game saves and game data, you can get by with a memory card, but if you want to download movies? you need that hard drive.
That hard drive jacks the price of the Core up by about ninety bucks, at least according to Amazon. So in truth, the better, at least more honest comparison between the Xbox and the AppleTV is NOT the Xbox Core system.
For the record though MSFT stock is actually up I believe, at one of the higher points it’s been in 5 years.
Yeah, but it's only twenty-eight bucks a share, and the highest it's been in that time is just a tish over thirty. If you look at its performance in that period, it's not been terribly good.
“Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV.”
*AHEM* an ethernet port generates about as much heat as that diagnostic USB port on the back of the aTV. *AHEM* the fan doesn’t run when using an XBox as a media streamer/DVR extender.
Actually NEITHER of then generate diddly unless they're being used, and in any case, the heat we're talking about is negligible. If you want to argue about heat, compare the CPU, hard drive, and power supply thermal characteristics, not the friggin' I/O ports. Yeesh.
Yes, you are *renting* the movies but I fail to see how the rental limits matter. Why would you rent a movie if you weren’t ready to watch it? I will say though that it does take about 20 minutes from purchase (at your TV) to watching it, while it downloads enough to start viewing. That’s annoying. How about the iTunes Store, how long does it take before you can start watching an HD movie?
Actually, if you look at the usage patterns for a lot of netflix users, they'll often rent something they aren't planning on viewing right away.
To be blunt, Netflix only loses to the Xbox in terms of immediacy. In every other way, it blows the Xbox away. (iTunes too, except in the "you bought it you own it" thing)
You get all the DVD special features. You can keep it as long as you want, and view it as many times as you want. You get it at full disc resolution. You can play it and have it look good for cheaper than EITHER an AppleTV or an Xbox. (I bought a new Sony five-disc DVD player with a surround sound system for cheaper than either. Five discs and speakers? My purchase pwns BOTH the Xbox and the Apple TV, and is simpler to use than either.)
Both Microsoft and Apple have a way to go before they can beat the netflix experience.
You see, I learn something new everyday. I didn’t realize that you could purchase HD movies from the iTunes Store and then burn them and copy them to other machines. That’s great! Seriously, that right there gives the iTunes store a huge advantage. I’m curious, how much do the movie purchases cost? So you can really keep them forever? Are you allowed to download them again? Is there no limit to how often you burn them? Speaking of that, are they in 720p or 1080p (or even i)?
You can transfer to five computers, sync with all the iPods you own, and burn to DVD for data archiving purposes only (not for DVD playback). You can also sync to up to five Apple TVs which don't count as one of your five computers.
How does that backup experience work with movies?
You can back up a movie with a DVD or hard drive. If you back up to a DVD, you can use the iTunes Backup feature, that will lead you through the backup process (choose File > Backup to Disc). To back up to an external hard drive, you simply drag the source movie files to the hard drive icon on your desktop or in My Computer.
So you can burn to DVD for backup not playback, (no, I don't get why this is magically better, but when you read the MPAA and RIAA rants on things, you realize that "sense" is not a major part of their world, and both Microsoft and Apple have to play along with a group of insane chimps in this case.), and you can play the movies on multiple computers or Apple TVs.
How much does a movie cost?
Movies typically range from $14.99 for new releases to $9.99 for most other movies.
From what I can tell, the movie downloads are not HD quality, but I'm not completely sure. Personally, since I don't have an HD rig, I don't really care.
Kermit Croaked
· 2 years ago
"A person in a store with a credit card looks at Apple TV and thinks, “What are the chances, at some point down the line, that I’m going to feel like I got screwed if I buy this?”
Then they think, “It’s Apple,” and that soothes their fears."
It's my understanding that the newest iPod models don't support Firewire, which would "screw" me, since my Mac supports Firewire, but not USB2.0 (it supports USB1.1, but that's dog slow for data transfer).
The Xbox fanboys need to stop. People by Xbox360s for games, and the other functionality is a bonus. Nobody will buy and Xbox360 because they're explicitly looking for a media viewing device. And Microsoft wouldn't want them to; anyone that bought and Xbox360 primarily for media viewing rather than gaming hurts Microsoft's bottom line as they'd not make money on the game licenses. Sony will encounter this from folks that buy PS3s to watch bluray discs rather than play games.
The Apple fanboys also need to take a breath. No way in hell Apple TV will be as successful as the iPod, for many reasons.
Just because Zune doesn't support it doesn't mean that the software, online stores, and hardware no longer function.
The fact is, Zune is in a different division than Plays4Sure. Many claim that they want Microsoft split up, well this is something like that. Zune is a separate "company" than is Plays4Sure, and they don't happen to be compatible, just like they wouldn't necessarily be if they really were separate companies. The Zune "company" wants to follow the iPod model of a closed system, where they have their own hardware, own DRM, and own store. Plays4Sure still exists and still follows the model of an open system, with a DRM that is supported by multiple hardware providers and multiple online stores.
So, was all the talk of wanting Microsoft split up just BS? Because it seems that most prefer Apple's strategy, which is based on being much more closed than is Microsoft.
Jordan
· 2 years ago
@129
Respectfully, you either didn't read my entire post or didn't grasp what I was getting at. I gave my own example of how I got "screwed" (low-res copies of purchased TV shows that I cannot now upgrade and must buy again, now that Apple has doubled the resolution of their offerings).
My point is about consumer perceptions. GENERALLY, people think, "Apple won't screw me," and then spend accordingly.
If you reread the post you quoted, you'll see that I actually do make a cogent presentation of this argument and I am fully aware (in my post) of the difference between market perceptions and hardware/software realities.
Just because Zune doesn’t support it doesn’t mean that the software, online stores, and hardware no longer function.
Oh sure. And of course, Microsoft is pouring just as much money into promoting Plays4Sure as the Zune. Why, just the other day, in Best Buy, I saw a nice large set of advertising material...no, wait, that was the Zune.
Come to think of it...where IS all the Plays4Sure marketing since the Zune came out?
Paul
· 2 years ago
"I didn’t say they wouldn’t abandon it if they saw the need. But there clearly ARE degrees of commitment to a product (to try to contradict that would be just as silly as your comical version of my argument, wouldn’t it?) This is a fact that can’t be denied.
Paul, meet Plays4Sure. Anything else?"
Yes, I could point out at this pont that you are simply engaging in empty point-scoring rhetoric without any regard to the original point I was trying to make. There is no sense in which Microsoft could have been said to "bet big" on Plays4Sure. How big an investment was this of their resources? This is not comparable to the X-Box in any way shape or form. You are still reacting as if I am saying 'Trust what Microsoft says' and aren't reading me the least bit carefully. And the laughable part is, I am a Mac user only, like you, have been for decades. But you just are not someone I can have a reasonable discussion with because you DON'T READ, you just react. As a result, I conclude that it is a waste of my time to interact with you further. HAND.
Larry
· 2 years ago
I have read the board here and wonder if the negative commentors have actually purchased, played with or even read others reviews of the Apple TV.
I purchased one on Friday and:
* at the time of purchase there was lots of inventory in my local Apple store, went back to the mall the next day, popped into the Apple store and there were only three left. Interested in inventory checks of others at their local stores.
* Being able to visualize on my TV all of my iTunes songs (ripped from CD's and purchased from iTune) with Album art, and listening through my home theatre is quite wonderful. I like it better than listing through my iPod or computer, by far.
* I hooked mine up on my 4:3 TV with component cables and it works like a charm both in 480i and 1080i.
* Viewing movie trailers etc is fun and useful.
* I have started ripping my DVD collection with Handbrake and the result is as good as watching these movies on the original DVD. This is akin to ripping your CD's into iTunes and saves one from having to purchase the same movies over again and, the quality is, I believe better than those purchased through iTunes. Being able to Rip CD's into MP3's was a huge reason that iTunes did so well, being able to the same with DVD's will, I believe, have the same effect.
* There is a "ton" of content to watch in the form of Video Podcasts, all free and easy to find on iTunes. In a sense this is an Apple TV network and is FREE. Watch for this category to explode in popularity.
* Being able to view my photo's and even slide shows with music is really nice and beats by far, having my family huddle around a computer. Much nicer to view it from the couch.
All in all, this Apple TV is a screaming value deal, so good in fact that I really wonder about the agenda of the posters who have stated otherwise.
Buy one, you'll love it.
John C. Welch
· 2 years ago
There is no sense in which Microsoft could have been said to “bet big” on Plays4Sure. How big an investment was this of their resources? This is not comparable to the X-Box in any way shape or form. You are still reacting as if I am saying ‘Trust what Microsoft says’ and aren’t reading me the least bit carefully. And the laughable part is, I am a Mac user only, like you, have been for decades. But you just are not someone I can have a reasonable discussion with because you DON’T READ, you just react. As a result, I conclude that it is a waste of my time to interact with you further. HAND.
Oooh. I have been pwn3d by someone trapped in the late 90s. Was that with two snaps and a circle too?
It's funny, because when Plays4Sure came out, there was ALL kinds of rhetoric from Redmond and Ballmer about how they were going to use this to bury the iPod, how committed they were, blah, blah, blah.
Then it didn't work. Shit, another body to bury.
If the Xbox hadn't succeeded, or the 360 had tanked compared to the others, you think they wouldn't have taken it out back and shot it?
Yeah. See, the Xbox has been a success. Not as much as the PS/2, the DS, or as much as the Wii is shaping up to be, but then, the Xbox never really directly competed with Nintendo at any level.
It competes with Sony, and it is doing *quite* well there. But don't confuse corporate rhetoric with "carved in stone". Plays4Sure had a ton of rhetoric and noise behind it when it came out. Now it's a zombie.
hence my example.
Oh, here's another one. WHere are all the Microsoft products from the MS-Sun alliance of 2004?
Hmm...lots of noise and commitment there, but all you have is a body in a dungeon to show for it. Same thing from Sun.
Maybe, and I know it's hard to hear when you're in your "talk to the hand" phase, but maybe, corporations are about as trustworthy as a scorpion promising it won't sting you.
vanni
· 2 years ago
My my so much angst over what Mr. Scoble said about buying a product that "Works as advertised. Easy to setup. It rocks." He is not comparing his product to any other product. He bought X. He likes X. He thinks X is great..and he said not a word about Y. So why do all the Y owners feel compelled to give their 2c about their product? Are they misreading Mr. Scoble's post? Are they too bleary-eyed from gaming to be able to properly read and comprehend plain english? What are they about?
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
My only complaint with his post is that he mispoke (and still does since he hasn't changed his original post) when he said it supports 1080 video.
It does NOT currently support 1080 video. Now if he wants to change the post and say that as far as he knows it will support 1080 video in the future, that is a far different statement, but as it stands TODAY, the friggin' thing does not support 1080 video.
Heck, as it stands TODAY, the device only supports 720P video at 24 FPS which is hardly what one could call quality...
Whereas, the Xbox 360, TODAY can handle 1080 video. So this would make the addition of the Apple TV into his home theater system completely irrelevant, TODAY.
This does not mean that the Apple TV product isn't good, or doesn't add value for some people, but for those who already have an Xbox 360, Apple TV adds NOTHING.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Alex: I updated the post.
Ji-won Choi
· 2 years ago
Most of you especially those criticising the aTV are looking at aTV in isolation. aTV is first and foremost designed to be an extension to the iPod emprei. It should be easier to see its merits if Apple sold it as iPod+iTunes+aTV. Because of this, its priority and its strongest advantage is to bring the same movie that you can watch on your video iPod into the living room. That's also the reason why its target will in the first wave likely to be those who has already purchased a video iPod or those who will very shortly.
If you consider this, it's no surprise 360 edges out in isolation. HDTV is not the mainstream amongst iPod owners or public in general, but almost all 360 owners would be. So a content service designed for 360 also makes sense to deliver in hi-res. Actually, that's a must. Yet you are still bound by your couch, aren't you? Everything you see on aTV can be taken out on the road, and vice-versa. "Take your iTunes content everywhere including your couch" is what Apple is saying. Then why is aTV not being marketted as an extension to the iPod like I said earlier? That's because despite its current limitations due to its duties to the current iPod-driven content service, Apple recognises its potential as an independent product. As Scoble rightly puts it, Apple underpromises and overdelivers. For now it has answered and delivered to those who wanted their iTunes contents on TV. You can bet your bottom dollar that it will support hi-res and more soon.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Scoble have you tested an actual video in 1080i on the AppleTV yet?
(The fact is that, as you say, Apple is underpromising, and that 4:3 is supported despite Apple's tech specs saying the contrary.)
I find your statement, if not confirmed with real world testing, that it does not output in 1080i is just as problematic as claiming that it does support it.
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
BTW it's not that it doesn't output at 1080, which it does, but rather that it currently does not support (at least per Apple's documentation) video inputs above 720p at 24 FPS.
It outputs at whatever your TV can handle (480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i) and upscales/downscales everything to match, similar to how an upscaling DVD player can output to an HD TV at 1080i, but the source material is all in 480i/p.
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
They never said it couldn't do 4:3 (that's what 480P video is), but they have clearly shown that your TV requires component video or HDMI video inputs to use it.
As far as I can tell there is no composite or S-Video connections on the Apple TV so anyone with an older TV will not be able to use it without some sort of converter.
"BTW it’s not that it doesn’t output at 1080, which it does, but rather that it currently does not support (at least per Apple’s documentation) video inputs above 720p at 24 FPS."
No kidding. You sound quite defensive about something that you don't own and don't want to own. Stop repeating yourself. I can read a web page as good as anyone.
However, you have ZERO evidence that it does not support video at higher resolutions. All that you have is the ability to read a web page.
"They never said it couldn’t do 4:3 (that’s what 480P video is), but they have clearly shown that your TV requires component video or HDMI video inputs to use it."
Completely incorrect. They DO say widescreen required. They mention the inputs, but they are specifically avoiding saying any tv, widescreen or not, with component video inputs (not S-composite) because of simplicity.
Since you are repeating things that are perfectly clear, I will do so as well: it is already known that Apple is purposefully limiting its tech specs to avoid confusion and support issues. We can not make ASSUMPTIONS (which you are doing) based on their specs.
vanni
· 2 years ago
"Apple TV can decode up to a 720p signal, but it can output up to 1080i. (If you’re wondering what these terms mean, consult the glossary we published the other day.) The device scales the videos to the proper output resolution. Neither iTunes nor Apple TV will decode 1080p content." source:http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2007/03/appletvbriefing/index.php
After lots of reading I now plan on getting an Apple TV later this summer, as soon as I get my new HDTV
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
If anyone is making assumptions about the performance of this product, it clearly isn't me. I'm just going off of the published specs, which is also clearly not ZERO evidence, unless you are saying that Apple's published specs are BS.
You seem to think that I am somehow dissing this product, when I could really care less about it one way or the other. It doesn't fill a hole in my home theater as there are already other products there that do the same functionality (and more).
I can see where it would fit into someone else's entertainment system, but for those of us already with a media extender (all it really is) and a DVR it adds nothing.
Particularly, if, like me, you could care less about iTunes.
Anyhow, my whole point in commenting here was to get my brother to change his inaccurate statement about it supporting 1080 video, which he did (although his statement could still be tweaked a bit).
Until Apple or someone else comes out with updated information that it will accept better than 720P x 24FPS video, that is all one can say about it.
Alex Scoble
· 2 years ago
In fact to suggest otherwise is to assume that it can do something other than the stated specs.
Something for which YOU, sir Goebbels, have ZERO evidence of.
*** End of line ***
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
"unless you are saying that Apple’s published specs are BS."
Yes, I am.
"You seem to think that I am somehow dissing this product, when I could really care less about it one way or the other."
Clearly, you are, but I don't care. I care about your baseless proclamations.
"Until Apple or someone else comes out with updated information that it will accept better than 720P x 24FPS video, that is all one can say about it."
No, one can say: this is very likely capable of more, and it should be tested. I'm sure Robert wants to test it and ultimately will. I'll wait for that.
"In fact to suggest otherwise is to assume that it can do something other than the stated specs."
Yes. That's been pretty obvious from the get go.
"Something for which YOU, sir Goebbels, have ZERO evidence of."
No, actually, there is evidence: as stated about 6 times already, it supports 4:3 non-HD tvs.
Kermit Croaked
· 2 years ago
"Oh sure. And of course, Microsoft is pouring just as much money into promoting Plays4Sure as the Zune. Why, just the other day, in Best Buy, I saw a nice large set of advertising material…no, wait, that was the Zune.
Come to think of it…where IS all the Plays4Sure marketing since the Zune came out?"
//////////////////////////////////////////////
Seems to me that the marketing is the same as it's always been. There've *never* been big Plays4Sure signs at BestBuy. And the "marketing" is the site that I referred to, which lists the various Plays4Sure devices. And why should Microsoft spend as much money marketing Plays4Sure as Zune? Plays4Sure is a multi-vendor thing, the marketing of which is spread out among those vendors. Microsoft has to market Zune all on their own.
I've noticed that whenever your point is disproved, you move the goalposts. Welch: Microsoft abandoned Plays4Sure. Me: Nope, it's still supported and here's the URL proving as much... Welch: They don't spend as much marketing it as Zune!!
Look, you were proven wrong. Man up and accept it rather than whining like a spoiled brat. Paul was right when he said this about you above: "But you just are not someone I can have a reasonable discussion with because you DON’T READ, you just react."
Kermit Croaked
· 2 years ago
Edit: 151 is a response to Welch, for those that couldn't tell.
Guiness
· 2 years ago
John C Welch excreted: "It’s funny, because when Plays4Sure came out, there was ALL kinds of rhetoric from Redmond and Ballmer about how they were going to use this to bury the iPod, how committed they were, blah, blah, blah.
Then it didn’t work. Shit, another body to bury."
Um, what exactly is your point? Microsoft felt that an open system would succeed over a closed one, similar to the PC/OS market itself. Obviously it didn't work, so Microsoft changed strategy. You're trashing Microsoft for one of the following reasons, none of which make sense: 1. That they dared predict that Plays4Sure would be successful when they started it. OMG, how horrible for a company to show confidence in one of its initiatives!! 2. When Plays4Sure failed against iPod, Microsoft began a new initiative that more closely followed iPod's closed strategy. OME, how horrible for a company to begin a new initiative after an earlier one failed!! 3. You despise Microsoft, and will trash them no matter what they do.
Seems that (3) is the answer in your case. We've got your number.
And I LOLed when you grudgingly admitted to Xbox's success. Must be an extremely bitter pill for you. BTW, how's that Pippin doing for you? As Apple fanboy #1, you probably lined up at BestBuy to get one. Oh, I forgot: Apple abandoned it BECAUSE IT FAILED. So those that did buy one were screwed over. So even Apple changes strategy (or, in Pippin's case *abandons* it) when needed.
Goebbels
· 2 years ago
Guiness, Apple NEVER released the Pippen. It was an experiment that they chose not to bring to market. Bandai briefly did. Apple experimented, saw the lack of market potential, and responded appropriately. Microsoft doesn't care about market viability so their failures will remain on the market languishing which can essentially be deemed "failure" and/or "abandonment."
Jonas
· 2 years ago
Got ours yesterday, hooked it up to to a Hitachi HD Projector and protected WPA Wifi network and streamed from iTunes within 6 minutes. Not bad. Love the whole GUI, neat effects and works super-simple and grand. Love it. Those who haven't seen it and decide they'll hate it anyway, because itcan't play xyz file, go play with your 360 or whatever. peace everyone.
Jaques
· 2 years ago
Hey, have you ever tried running OS X or another operating on it?
tercume
· 2 years ago
Thank science you took M$ weight off your shoulders and now can speak freely about everything you like, good or bad...
Rudolf
· 2 years ago
When you find there are problems in your project, like certain mxml page is not updating the modification, or some asset files are missing, you can correct it by doing "clean" on the project (Project-->clean). Other times a simple "clean" will not do the trick.OK
David
· 2 years ago
The Cause? part of the problem is the obvious defects at the application level - actionscripts/javascripts that are shiite, and using the damn Flash as a video delivery instead of a proper codec like h.264) …. but i suspect that theie are deep system issues in the event model & the thread model for osx itself that are also to blame.Thanks..!
oyunlar
· 2 years ago
Hey, have you ever tried running OS X or another operating on it?
resimler
· 2 years ago
part of the problem is the obvious defects at the application level - actionscripts/javascripts that are shiite, and using the damn Flash as a video delivery instead of a proper codec like h.264) …. but i suspect that theie are deep system issues in the event model & the thread model for osx itself that are also to blame.Thanks..!
Bedava Oyun Oyna
· 2 years ago
The Cause? part of the problem is the obvious defects at the application level
Victor
· 2 years ago
I think it looks really great,i hope iTunes is not bundled with it? At the moment i have a Toshiba 42", but have to say that the AppleTV is really sexy.
mIRC
· 2 years ago
god or nice
Tech
· 2 years ago
After the iPhone fiasco, it's about time.
The Muse
· 2 years ago
No Victor, iTunes is not bundled with it (???)
The Muse
· 2 years ago
Why would you think that Victor?
nezh
· 2 years ago
That they dared predict that Plays4Sure would be successful when they started it. OMG, how horrible for a company to show confidence in one of its initiatives
oyunlar
· 2 years ago
thank you ..
canlı tv
· 2 years ago
you are thinking, ‘Enough with the Apple TV already,’ but considering that even Scoble likes it, I think some more coverage is in order. Two Apple TV links worthy of your attention have come
oyun
· 1 year ago
Hey, have you ever tried running OS X or another operating on it?
gerçek tercüme
· 1 year ago
Scob, you said you’ve got one how much did u pay for that? Got coupons?
mirc
· 1 year ago
mirc web pagee
mırc
· 1 year ago
thank you all page
übersetzungen
· 1 year ago
There are many useful informations in this great article…I really enjoy reading the whole blog that you write. Thanks!...
Canlı Tv
· 1 year ago
I wonder - can you play a TS_Video folder? (ie a backed-up DVD?)
giysi giydirme oyunları
· 1 year ago
I’ve tried importing my posts but it just wouldn’t work. I read from somewhere else that I need to set the archive to “no archive” (because I had a problem that wordpress only imported the first post of the month from blogger!)…I’ve tried that and the “monthly” archive option but to no avail..
It keeps getting stuck after importing 4 posts then the
kız oyunları
· 1 year ago
[...] it, I think some more coverage is in order. Two Apple TV links worthy of your attention have come. Read More… This entry was posted on Friday, December 21st, 2007 at 12:00 am and is filed under [...]
partner
· 1 year ago
Thanks for Apple TV rocks article.
tshirts
· 1 year ago
Man, a Linux version of Media Centre or whatever would probably rock compared to Apple TV or Media Centre. Alas, I don't know of any working version just yet – but, once it gets working, you bet it's going to take off. I guess the Apple TV isn't priced badly for what you get. Although, I think they can still do a little better and I hope that in the next generation of Apple TV we're going to see a heck of a lot more compatibility – as that's the real problem with it for me right now.
oyunlar
· 1 year ago
Apple TV or Media Centre. Alas, I don’t know of any working version just yet – but, once it gets working, you bet it’s going to take off. I guess the Apple
chat
· 1 year ago
Thanks for Apple TV.
dizi izle
· 1 year ago
You have a 360, how would you compare the two streaming from a PC (via media center or media connect). Obviously the 360 doesn’t natively support mp4, so I presume that played a role in the purchase. But would love to hear your thoughts.
youtube33
· 4 months ago
It baffles me how people can get so excited about this when the Xbox 360 has such an upper hand:
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house. http://www.yyoutube.net
All Comments
If only they could harness this engineering prowess to produce computers or perhaps even an operating system, that would be a sight indeed.
And I sit on my couch with iTunes controlling what gets on my TV. I download something with iTunes and it shows up on Apple TV a few seconds later. It really is amazing. All through wifi.
Apple has done a better job of building a simple experience. Media Center is better for geeks, cause it does more. At least that's my first impression.
But, for about $350 (including cables and taxes) this is a great purchase.
I can't see getting an Xbox and a Media Center for that little money.
Looks like Gizmodo has a comparison up: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/a...
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house.
2. Interface that 3rd parties can extend: Transcode 360 as one example. (Yes, it adds features to the extender's interface also). OMG humongous list here:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/20347.aspx
3. Apple TV doesn't stream stuff? (that's the impression I got from the Gizmodo article) Like I want to wait for things to sync before I start looking at them.
3.5. You can play games on the Xbox. One can say this doesn't count because some people don't care about playing games, but let's face it a lot of us would.
I am curious how the Apple TV handles playlists. Can you play a music playlist that you have made on iTunes?
I'm not sure what extender weirdness you are talking about. Just watch the dots rotate for a while, punch 8 digits in your media center pc, and it works. According to the Gizmodo article, it sounds like they are both equally easy to set up. So I would appreciate your thoughts on which part is easier.
Playlists come over from iTunes, as far as I can tell.
Extender weirdness? My Wifi system causes it to crash once in a while. My Media Center is upstairs, though, so to do anything, like download Rocketboom, I gotta go upstairs. Download Rocketboom, make sure it's in the right directory, then head back downstairs to watch again.
Using Apple TV I do everything from my laptop.
But on the other hand, I see your point. Apple tends to make complicated things quite easy. They build neat stuff.
monk.e.boy
From David Pogue's followup to his review of the iTV, the Xbox 360 as a media center, and the Netgear EVA8000, http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/22/bridg...
Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on.
Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways. First, each movie is available for rental only during a several-week window–then it’s gone. Second, you have to start watching the movie within two weeks of downloading it. Third, once you start watching it, you have to finish watching within 24 hours.
In each case, the movie is lost forever if you’re tardy.
I'm not seeing that as a great selling point for movies on the 360. Ah, sweet, sweet rolling over for the DRM lords.
3.5. You can play games on the Xbox. One can say this doesn’t count because some people don’t care about playing games, but let’s face it a lot of us would.
I'm thinking that the 360 gets bought for games first, and then "hey, I can play movies too? Sweet!"
What it does offer: integration with iTunes.
What it doesn't offer: about 99% of all of the other stuff I already do with video-content.
And I'm not even that interested in integration with iTunes, since I can plug all of my computers straight into my TV without extra equipment...
I love Apple products, but I really don't get the added value of Apple TV.
Maybe it's just me, but I never understood the need for any of these devices that are supposed to integrate computers with television. All computers I've bought since the '95 can be hooked up directly to the TV. Any old one will do to serve as a permanent interface between the TV and my home network.
Sure, Apple TV looks better then the old Asus laptop currently plugged into my TV and stereo, but it can play all of the content I want to see and hear instead of just 5 percent...
I'm currently using an old PIII desktop with GB-PVR to stream to my media room. With various plug-ins, it essentially functions as a poor man's Kalaidescape system + Music Jukebox + PVR. It has a slick, easy to use interface (and total price to me, including the computer, was $0), but, as with any home-brew-type software, it can be a bit buggy. And then there's the machine boot-up time, which runs into several minutes. And the heat in my media rack.
If I can get the same (or similar) functionality without the boot lag and heat, I might be willing to shell out some clams.
Once you stop thinking of the Apple TV as a home theater component or living room workhorse and start thinking of it as an iPod + iTunes accessory, you can start to understand the appeal and imagine it (like other iPod-related accessories) selling like hotcakes.
AppleTV auto sychs (wirelessly) all the media you have on your mac/pc iTunes library.
Simple as that, if its in iTunes its in AppleTV. (e.g. videos, podcasts, tv-shows, movies, audiobooks)
If you have your own DVD's or AVI or WMV or DIVX files you can convert them to MPEG-4 (.mp4/H.264) then they can be managed by iTunes. Once you have that done, they will auto-synch with AppleTV.
Thank science you took M$ weight off your shoulders and now can speak freely about everything you like, good or bad.
Kudos!
Apple TV will work because people buy it and plug it in, and it "just works", in the same way the iPod "just works" with iTunes. It is to watching video via the internet what the iPod is to listening to music via the Internet.
It's a shame that Microsoft, for all the fantastic work they do, don't get this. They did briefly license Media Center Extenders but they've all gone now. They *should* develop a simple WiFi box that just automagically hooks into WMP11 on _any_ computer, but of course that wouldn't drive sales for Vista Premium...
The AppleTV doesn't seem to support a lot of other formats that other similiar products do, including Ogg, DivX/XvId. Most things no support HDMI/Component/HD.
Is the AppleTV work without MaxOSX? While most other things list windows, they'll actually pull media form any UPnP source, including dumb file server NAS machines.
I guess like all things, if you're life doesn't revolve around an iPod, then there are better products than the AppleTV for this type of activity.
Or, I'm missing something in the hype. Also a good possibility. :-)
From my perspective, I have way too many media devices in my living room already. Like me, lots of people won't feel compelled to buy an Apple TV because they see it as a redundant device where there's already an XBOX 360 and/or a TiVo.
For video purchases, I can buy or rent movies and TV shows from Amazon (to watch on the TiVo) or from Microsoft to watch on the 360. I don't because I think the two services suck (for similar reasons), but that's another discussion.
However, Apple TV has the video podcast integration with iTunes. That's key, because the best the guys from TiVo could come up with was their stupid TivoCasts, which suck due to limited selection of questionable taste.
Now that poses a problem for TiVo, right? They are pushing their customers to seek another box to watch Internet content. And once there's another box in the room, the very existence of the TiVo box is at risk.
Also, people should think of Apple TV more like a on steroid version of Airport Express. APple is trying to make the computer your digital hub where you gather our media content. Apple TV just brings it to the living room.
Speaking of, can you subscribe to new vodcasts from your couch/remote-control on the AppleTV?
But everyone here (mostly) is of the geek type, so most of us are going to say "why doesn't it do this....?". I don't think that's the audience. The audience is somewhere between technically inept and sub-geek--like much of the population that has already bought HD TVs.
I think for what it is, and I think Terrin's description is best as of today, a steroid version of Airport Express. You're not stuck to iTunes content, just stuff that can be played in iTunes native formats (i.e., without video codec plug-ins that enable you to play other formats, like Divx, avi, wmv, etc--a mini would let you do this). For that, it is a work of genius and simple elegance. For some people, it may be worth it just to control their music colleciton from their living room. It's not for X-Box people. Why complain, you've got your X-Box.
So I am going the Mini route, but I wish they had stepped up the feature set just a notch with video codecs (that may be installed on the host PC) and net access (for various reasons, including buying legit content, or maybe even downloading not so legit content).
Remember, it takes MS at least 2 or 3 times to get it right, and this is ver 1. I'm sure some of these capabilities will come out via software revisions and future generations of the hardware. (I can't wait though...I'm going to have to spring for the mini, unless some good hacks show up in the next couple of weeks). I am actually surprised Apple was able to pull this off this well on the first go around.
I think the uber-geeks need to just respect it for what it is, and get what they need. Like the Apple TV, x-boxes are not for everyone, but they are probably better for a larger audience than the x-box.
I wonder - can you play a TS_Video folder? (ie a backed-up DVD?)
In fact, if you want to convert content, you will be able to play almost anything, because there are various tools to convert all formats to MP4. However, I get a lot of content that is already Divx or avi (mostly) and I don't want to have to go through another generation of conversion (the time + possible quality degradation).
People are already ripping the thing apart to start the hacking. So it may not be long that WE geeks have some wider application of the Apple TV. A few weeks should tell...
I think it rocks. Set it up in about 30 seconds and was off and running.
Apple TV's interface blow the 360's out of the water. It is much easier to use. And it has far more output choices than a 360. I still find it hard to believe that the 360 doesn't have an HDMI interface.
iTunes is the killer app in the whole Apple pantheon. It is much easier to buy media through itunes than on the 360. Using a keyboard to enter search criteria in the music store has advantages over scrolling through lists of crap on the 360. And itunes uses normal currency, not stupid Microsoft points.
1) In Europe you can't buy TV series nor Movies on the iTunes store (yet).
2) My SD TV does not have component-in, just Scart and S-Video.
Otherwise I would have bought it.
I'd go completely cable less if it weren't for live content (ie: sports). I cannot go without watching the Red Sox and Patriots in HD, live. It is not a negotiable thing.
If I weren't a sports fan, I'd buy Apple TV in a moment and cancel Cable. I could buy a season pass show I watch and it would still be cheaper per year then cable.
It's my feeling that those criticizing the Apple TV as too expensive for too few features aren't getting it. They said the same thing about the iPod. Wrong then and wrong now.
I wrote more about this last night: The Apple TV Debate Is Upside Down
http://www.harddrivelife.com
That said, it looks like a well-executed device -- tightly focused, lot of polish and thought into a simple UE.
As for MS's 360-as-MCE-extender strategy.... even though it does more (PVR especially!), you only have to look at the size and noise of the 360 compared to the Apple TV to see the serious flaws in MS's living room approach. (That they expect you to use a 360 *game controller* as a remote to my mind speaks volumes here about the inability to reach a mainstream audience.) Get the noise down, include a real remote, figure out how to market a gaming console to the much larger audience of non-gamers... and then we've got a contender. 'til then, no dice.
@35. "Didn't think?" In other words you jumped to conclusions without doing any research? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!
One thing great about the AppleTV launch and resulting comments on all the blogs-it shows that many Xbox360 owners are just as smug and full of themselves about their "shiny boxes" as Apple users are. :p
How well does Apple TV display photos as a slideshow? I am particularly interested in the case where the photos are stored in a directory on a Windows XP-based PC not and the photos are not being managed by iTunes or iPhoto (obviously).
Robert, any feedback on this use case would be appreciated.
One thing...one word.... about the lack of this or that with the Apple TV.
Leopard!!!!!!
Just wait. The new operating system will add plenty of new punch to the Apple tv.
I'll bet my bottom dollar there will be vast improvements of the functionality when it comes out in about a month and a half. Then there are the hacks that will help as well. Seeing how easy this was to take apart...never seen a new tech product that was so easy to rip open...I'm sure the mods will be flowing forth in a very short time.
I have no idea about streaming from a Windows box, I am using iphoto.
http://www.blackfriarsinc.com/blog/2007/03/appl...
All of the "doesn't have feature z, i can just run a cable across the ceiling down the stairs behind the furniture and plug it into my tv" complaints are time rich money poor complaints.
"But it just works, I don't care whehter it does z just let me see the stuff I have in iTunes" arguments are time poor money rich.
Its all about the user experience just like the iPod. You basically manage all your media (photos, music, video, podcast) on one computer and be able to enjoy it on the big screen basically hassel free.
I think ATV is for people who have more disposable income and not too much free time. The people that makes over $30/hr who after a long days work just want to turn it on and enjoy. This is an end to end solution that just works without having to think about it. Sure that are many other products that can do the same, but it takes effort and research to get everything that you want it to do. That is more for geeks and people that don't mind saving a little money by trading their time to tweak optimize their gears.
Why it will be successful?
ITUNES. You manage everything in one place simple and ellegantly. You no longer need to store media on hard media, which takes up space, can get damaged, and sometimes hard to find. You can have thousands of songs on your iPods. Imagine listening to thousands of them on CDs with your CD players. You can do it, but the user experience between the using iPod and CDs... you get the picture.
Advantages?
Now you can just buy a movie or TV show and watch it anytime with ATV and anywhere with your iPod. No commercial. No need for Tivo anymore. No need to buy or waste gas to rent DVDs anymore. On subscription TV services, you might only watch a few shows, but you have to pay for all the crap that you don't watch. Plus you have to schedule your time around the show instead of the other way around. If you have a night out with friends, guess you have to miss the show. So you can throw this out the door too if you use iTunes.
Why not get a Mac Mini?
If you also have a computer in your room, which computer do you use to manage your media. If you use the the one in your room, what if you want to enjoy a movie or photos with friends and family on the big screen. If you have it on your mini, you can't use it in your room. Sure you can just copy it to the other computer, but that takes away from the simplicity of managing all your media in a central location. Also if you have friends that might bring over a laptop with something to show, you can do this with ATV very easily, but not with a Mac Mini.
Why not get a Laptop?
Sure you can craw behind the TV and plug it in with a HDMI cable and unplug it as needed. But do you really want to do this everytime. And I don't know about the durability of these connectors if you plug and unplug everyday. Might be less hassel and cheaper to get an ATV then risking damaging the ports.
Bottom line.
If your time is valuble or if you just want a simple and elegant way to enjoy your media, ATV is for you. Its a no brainer.
Get it?
Got it.
There are so many podcast out there that are now using high def. I do think that the availability of podcast on a hd tv will be a door that opens up much of this to the none podcast community. A whole world will open up and that may indeed be the future of tv in general.
Cant wait for rocketboom or geekbriefs on my tv!
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php...
Not only can you install Divx/Xvid codecs, but *any* QuickTime plug-in on the Apple TV (also enabling Windows Media files via Flip4Mac).
Prior to this, I thought the Apple TV was like as if they had released the iPod without MP3 support.
This, combined with easily upgrading the hard drive and other easy hacks makes this a must-have device for me, despite already owning a bunch of other digital media players for my TVs.
The max resolution of the video formats that it will handle is 720p. You are confusing this with the fact that it will output video to 1080i, however, the source video is still 720p.
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html
It's all there in the specs.
XBox 360 still wins.
Also, since the 360 has downloadable content similar to what Apple is offering, an MCE isn't even needed to view videos on the 360, so 360 isn't beat their either.
I'm very surprised that you bought this as it offers nothing new to your home theater.
That being said, I will probably end up with both of them.
http://snowcrash751.blogspot.com/2007/03/have-y...
http://www.neopoleon.com/home/blogs/neo/archive...
http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm
bottom line is it has more to do with the set YOU own and the device (STB/appleTV/etc) YOU own, not the standard.
He's enjoying the device despite watching lower-rez content and not having a clue.
That's all that matters.
Put up an antenna. I've gotten all my local stations (Chicago) that way for the last couple of years. Of course, the Cubs have been awful since my antenna went up (2/2004), so not all has been good.
"Sorry, bro, but you are wrong on this one. It doesn’t DO 1080 video." -- Alex Scoble
So, do I have to reinstate the stuff I took back that I originally said?
Also the second web site is showing incorrect depictions of what usually happens in interlaced video. What it is actually showing are interlace errors where two fields (half-frames) are deinterlaced in the wrong order. When two fields are deinterlaced in the correct order you get an accurate and sharp picture.
JoeT, no, wait for confirmation. Clearly Apple is playing it safe with their tech specs, and Alex is not speaking with any authority.
The tech specs say a widescreen is required; it is not. Apple played it safe with codec support, but with the launch explanded it (although only minorly).
There is every reason to believe that 1080i is supported. Framerates and hiccups may be a concern which is why they are being conservative.
From Macworld:
The Apple TV can also stream content from up to five computers. To do so, navigate to the Sources menu on the Apple TV, select Connect to New iTunes, and a new PIN number appears. Enter this PIN number into the Apple TV preferences on the new computer’s copy of iTunes, and iTunes will tell you you’re in sync. You can now stream content from that computer’s library to the Apple TV.
Still not getting one, because my TV works. Not HD, not SD with component video. Last thing I watched? Season one of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea". HD, until it is as cheap as my (now) 7 year old TV, is so not on my horizon, unless it's accidently.
1) 5.1 sound. There's a discussion going on at Macintouch about this. Some QuickTime formats support this, some don't. But the movies you buy from Apple have mere stereo sound.
2) CHAPTER BREAKS! Nobody talks about this, but it makes a tremendous difference. For movie buffs like me, the ability to step through a movie scene by scene (not scroll through using an imprecise potentiometer-style display or by holding down a button and watching the video scan rapidly by) is a feature I really don't want to lose.
I could mention commentary tracks, too.
I thought it didn't stream content to the box/tv from your pc. I thought it syncs/copies them over for playback?
Can you confirm?
I have had a TV out for yeeears with a tv or projector hooked up. Logitech did nice job on their 'lean back' media player, controlling it via their bluetooth controller.
Soon portable media players will have much more power and equal quality to these Apple boxes (iTunes hard drives with a tv-out) and they'll record what you want and let you play it where you want.
I'm sure this Apple TV is a nice product. They do make nice hardware. But to 'it rocks' might be an overstatement? Hmm? ;)
It just doesn't seem revolutionary at all. Maybe its just about the simplicity for all the iTunes users who are already forced into using that interface for their padlocked content. ;p
It syncs/copies to/from the main library for the most reliable playback, but it can also stream from any of up to 5 PCs on the network. (Most valuable when guests want to play THEIR photo slideshow, music, or videos from their laptops.)
Other key features that make it unique:
It does go direct to the internet (if only to get trailers... the potential is there) using 802.11n if you have it.
It preserves pauses across the ecosystem of TV-PC-iPod so that you can resume viewing across all your devices.
It does not require a PC so, yes, it can be used like a portable media player once loaded with content and connected to other TVs. (I could easily imagine ripping a few films to bring along on trips... housesitting, etc...)
If you are consuming TV shows from iTS via subscription, it automatically loads the latest episodes and deletes watched episodes.
I like that pausing thing too. That's a nice feature.
Is it up to 5 pcs 'ever'? or does that mean '5 at once?' - what I mean is, are these machines 'registered' with the device, a bit like limiting the pcs you can plug an ipod in to, without wiping it?
Still. I love my Archos devices. I dont have HD yet.
Thx for the info
BTw, I can listen to OGG in itunes with a plug in - I presume if it shows up in itunes, it can "seen" by AppleTV itunes?
Careful! You may end up being another Steve Bartman. Take that antenna down so the Cubs start winning!!
That does not prevent you from linking to the libraries of any random PC on the network nor is there any "registration".
(Whether you can avoid the "Source" list entirely or need to bump one entry or leave entries open, I haven't determined yet. (I'm working off research and what I've heard/seen from a couple of friends.))
jbelkin, no. This is not a safe presumption. It is safe to presume that many are already working on the hacks, and that within a few weeks/months there will be several simple installs to enable it.
Hey-- I've thought about it! Man-- it's another spring training with Prior doing his best Fidrych impersonation. BTW, I was on a flight with Bartman maybe a year and a half ago.
Back to the Apple-- can the box stream from a PC that doesn't have a user logged in? That is, does a user have to be logged in on the PC and iTunes running in order to stream to the Apple TV?
Same things said about the iPhone. Same things said about the iPod.
360's nice, no doubt, but does no one ever /learn/ from the past?
Uh..those links are to Alvy Ray Smith's website. Let's see, whose opinion about TV should I go with here...a dude on Scoble's comments, or ALVY FUCKING RAY SMITH'S :p
You hit the nail on the head--Apple TV is the big bang for independent content! Video podcasts, independent films, shorts, how-to videos, training videos. This is opening the door of distribution all the way to the family room.
My site, http://www.hungryflix.com, offers downloads of independent films for the iPod. We are now working on offering higher res for Apple TV.
This is very exciting.
(1) Price for Content: AppleTV controls the iTunes store, so you are going to pay for seeing video. Tivo has a hefty monthly fee and will be charging for premium content as well.
(2) Live Video: neither support live video, so forget about breaking news, sports, live shows.
Regarding the other solutions, the media extenders, they are great for technies, but lame for the average joe (I know, you are a techie). I know no one that has had success with a PC connected to their computer that was not techie, really.
Solution... well, I have been working on one, the StreamSurfer. It is a device that has a one time fee, costs $299 and lets you access WM video from the net. We hope to add Flash video to it in the coming weeks to, so users can watch their YouTube video, etc.
Anyway, if you are interested in learning more about it, or have any ideas, please let me know, you can find me through http://www.streamsurfer.tv.
Of course, I am a techie, have a Mac and a PC, and look forward to getting an AppleTV unit as well.
Cheers!
While playing in the bedroom is great, the Xbox 360 is the WRONG kind.
Alvy Ray Smith not valid re explaining resolutions?
Shakes head.
Remember, this is coming from a newlywed.
Give him a couple years : ).
not a newlywed yet :-)
Besides, I was married once before, and the whole slowdown thing? Never really happened :-P
http://www.computerworld.com/blogs/node/5239
Yeah, but I have to convert all the media to WMV first. Thank you for giving me the impression that there was an alternate solution and launcing me head first into a pile of crap. Did you do this on purpose, Alex? This is *almost* like saying, 'You can send video to your 360 from your Mac so forget the Apple TV!' and then giving us a link to Boot Camp.
Boooooooo! I say.
Good point except I assume you realize that Jobs had nothing to do with the Newton; that is was the brainchild of John Sculley; that Jobs killed the project shortly after his return to Apple in 1996/7.
There's nothing wrong with your point! It just bears emphasizing that the Newton is NOT a Jobs creation and probably embodies both the best and worst qualities of Apple in the non-Jobs period.
: )
Software vs Hardware
Now Apple is taking the advantage, do you think Microsoft will stay behind or will cross the line to do what I think they will do, and how they will do it?
What do you think?
Nearly all the enthusiasm garnered by Apple TV results from people instantly thinking, "If Apple's doing it, it's going to work."
"Work" in several senses: the device will work (it will do what Apple says it will do); the system/network/store/formats etc. will work (because Apple has earned consumer and analyst trust with iPod/iTunes) and, finally, the SCHEME will work (since Apple has proven that they know what's around the corner, in the near future, in these kinds of volatile markets).
At a certain point Microsoft has to face the fact that customers and Wall Street don't really trust them to get anything right. It's not just the clumsy market positioning or the sudden strategy reversals (like PlaysForSure); it's a twenty-year history of corporate moves that, taken together, create a composite image of a shifty, bullying company that makes extremely complicated and confusing products and services that constantly change.
A person in a store with a credit card looks at Apple TV and thinks, "What are the chances, at some point down the line, that I'm going to feel like I got screwed if I buy this?"
Then they think, "It's Apple," and that soothes their fears.
You can list all the superior XBox features you want. But it doesn't matter. At a certain point consumers just trust that Apple logo to shield them from industry stupidity, strategic mis-steps, and even their own ignorance of the technology. Microsoft's brand conveys none of these qualities.
It's the reason the Zune was conspicuously lacking any Microsoft branding. This could be the biggest problem Microsoft faces. In fact, it's a fatal flaw, at this point.
I found a "work around" solution. Monster Cables makes a really good cord that allows you to hook your iPod to your TV set. It allows you to use your S-Video, which looks wonderful, as well as your audio and video AV cables (red-yellow-white). Very durable and high quality! I have a 27 inch SDTV so all my SNL reruns look beautiful, expeciallly in widescreen mode. My wife's favorite movie that she bought at the iTunes store, Coyote Ugly, was amazingly better than DVD quality. If the rumors hold true, we'll all be encoding video in 1080p or 1080i on our macs soon. Enjoy your AppleTV! For the rest of us, go get some Monster Cables! And don't forget your AC plug that you can hook a USB cord to so you can keep your Video iPods nice and charged up! I probably said more here than on my own blog so I had better say goodbye!
Sure, Apple makes some good stuff, but here are the ways they completely screwed up:
1. No volume control on the remote.
2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content but iTunes content is only 480p. Gee, how great is the fact that Apple TV does 1080i when you can only get iTunes content at SD quality? Upscaling is not a substitute for true HD.
3. No photo streaming? Seriously? Robert, how can you even begin to praise Apple TV without photo streaming? I thought you and Thomas Hawk were big into your Photo Walking thing. How can you accept a product that ignores photos?
4. Over-priced.
5. No cables.
6. Integrated wifi. For some odd reason people consider this a plus but I have a wired home, I don't need wifi and I hate the fact that I'm forced to pay for it. I much prefer the XBox 360 modular approach, if you need WiFi, buy it, otherwise stick with the ethernet. I don't feel like footing the bill for something I don't need.
7. No management via the interface. You are actually OK with using your LAPTOP to purchase/manage iTunes content? I can just imagine having to explain to my wife that when she wants to purchase a new movie she needs to drag out her laptop from office upstairs.
Apple has completely failed to make a product for the living room consumer segment. Apple TV is a nice toy for those that hand over their money to the iTunes store but that's about it.
I refer you to my comment (106) above.
1. No volume control on the remote.
You already have to use that other remote to set your TV source. So what's the big deal that you'll have to also use it for the volume?
2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content but iTunes content is only 480p.
Not only does your bias show, your ignorance does too. It's not limited to what the iTunes _Store_ offers, it's (somewhat) limited to what iTunes _plays_. Software exists to take your HD content and make it playable in iTunes. ANd hardware hacks are already cropping up to play virtually any codex too.
3. No photo streaming? Seriously?
For now. Apple has already said they'll have that working shortly.
4. Over-priced.
Any yet, its still quite a bit less than your so-called "better solution". Oh, and quieter, with a much smaller footprint.
5. No cables.
Since there's about 3 different ways to cable up a HDTV, I prefer making my own decision as to what I need. Since I hold stock in AAPL- as I've had for 26 months - I prefer they don't ship unneeded cables. Keeps the cost down, and the profits up.
Speaking of holding AAPL and profits, how's MSFT been doing the last 5 years? How much profit is XBox bringing in? Oh wait, that's right....
6. Integrated wifi. For some odd reason people consider this a plus but I have a wired home, I don’t need wifi and I hate the fact that I’m forced to pay for it. I much prefer the XBox 360 modular approach, if you need WiFi, buy it, otherwise stick with the ethernet. I don’t feel like footing the bill for something I don’t need.
Two things.
First, you chastise aTV for the lack of cables. Yet you find the lack of WiFi a feature of XBox? Interesting take.
Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV.
7. No management via the interface. You are actually OK with using your LAPTOP to purchase/manage iTunes content? I can just imagine having to explain to my wife that when she wants to purchase a new movie she needs to drag out her laptop from office upstairs.
Talk about people who don't get it. Wow.
First, that's what the WiFi is for. She doesn't have to drag out her laptop from the office. She simply has to go upstairs to it, make her purchase, and sync it up via that WiFi.
Second, that WiFi (or ethernet, it uses either) means that aTV is already hooked to the internet. Apple has already said the device runs a version of OS X and that they'll have software update. Is it possible that they might allow you to purchase iTunes content in the future?
Third, let's debunk that manage iTunes content part of your statement right now. You manage your aTV content through the remote. Period.
Fourth. Your so-called better solution. Purchasing content. Hmph.
Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on.
Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways. First, each movie is available for rental only during a several-week window–then it’s gone. Second, you have to start watching the movie within two weeks of downloading it. Third, once you start watching it, you have to finish watching within 24 hours.
In each case, the movie is lost forever if you’re tardy.
Yeah, now THAT'S a much better solution.
Are you also saying that when looking at the two options, just from a design perspective people would prefer the loud, clunky XBOX360 device sitting in their family room (or even bedroom)? I will concede you point about lack UI access from the device, and the lack of photo streaming.
No cables? Last I checked the XBOX360 console didn't come with HDMI or component cables, so that's a bit of a wash wouldn't you say?
I'm a geek, I have an XBOX, a media center, and maybe an Apple TV. I *could* but probably *won't* ever use the XBOX for anything other than gaming.
At least Apple has that ipod-for-TV spin, but if we can't stream, not sure how that plays out.
Then again, DirecTV/DISH (which people have has a built in recorder) is a tough competitor. Getting dozens of components could be annoying, yet we'll do it.
We can look at the Apple TV in isolation all day long-- that's what geeks do so well-- but we might miss how the world works outside of our sphere.
I will never own a 360 for reasons that are irrelevant to this post although some have been highlighted in previous posts, and the idea of streaming my contents to my TV via wifi is an attractive model. Incidentally, it is surprising how #111 doesn't seem to mind wires - if you are a "geek", you should be well aware of the problems with wire overload (behind my TV is like a den of thin, black serpents). If you are not a geek, then you ought to enjoy the no clutter approach. Anyway well done Dave for a great rebuttal (#114).
I'm the biggest Mac geek there is, but even I don't see MS in such black-and-white terms. For example, while overall I think Microsoft's corporate image is tarnished in exactly the way you suggest, I am aware that they have bet big on the X-Box and this technology is not going to be abandoned anytime soon, as I think most other people are too. X-Box purchasers seem to me to be rational (though I admit I wouldn't buy one, myself, I'm stil saving for a PS3/Blu-ray home upgrade. But those who think the X-Box renders the Apple TV unnecessary don't seem to me to be so rational.
@111, who said: "2. The *only* advantage Apple TV has over the much better XBox 360 solution is that it plays iTunes-locked content".
Gee, let's see ... the Apple TV's playable video formats: H.264, protected MPEG4, and UNprotected MPEG4. Notice something about two of these formats? They are leading edge, even beyond the leading edge, and they aren't controlled by Apple.
Now, X-Box's playable video formats: WMV and MPEG2. MPEG2?!?! Gee, thanks, Microsoft.
I'm glad that I sparked to do this research by these vaunted claims I read here because now I know exactly why nobody I know with an X-Box uses it for video.
And before anyone tells me that you can hack the X-Box to play more, I just read that you can hack the Apple TV to play EVERYTHING so you've got no advantage to press with me here.
Out of the box, it is very clear that Apple TV is the far superior compressed video playback solution, if you consider the whole channel (i.e. am I going to want to store things in these formats so that they can fit the conditions at the end of the channel?)
Now why doesn't somebody support XviD out of the box and blow the doors off both of these idiots? And an XviD streamer would literally NOT HAVE DO TO A SINGLE OTHER THING TO BE ENORMOUSLY SUCCESSFUL, so make it simple, stupids, and don't shoot yourselves in the foot like Netgear!
This is what Apple does right. They figure out what is X, as in the what is the minimum feature set required to fulfill a desire or a need, and then they view any form of X + Y as a drawback, not a feature. In other words they look very hard at the optimum feature-to-complexity part of the curve, and they're smart enough not to pat themselves on the back for climbing out of it.
There is a list as long as you like of "tech that won't be abandoned anytime soon" because the company is "betting on it big"
OpenDoc
The Newton
Cross-platform Active X
Plays4Sure
Cross-Platform NT
etc.
Apple, Microsoft, IBM, all of them have, and will continue to abandon things if they see the need. To think anything else is silly.
Strawman, meet John Welch.
I didn't say they wouldn't abandon it if they saw the need. But there clearly ARE degrees of commitment to a product (to try to contradict that would be just as silly as your comical version of my argument, wouldn't it?) This is a fact that can't be denied.
I don't think Microsoft will stick with the X-Box for a while because they say they will (they say that about everything -- but just talk isn't "betting big"). I think Microsoft will stick with the X-Box for a while because it's obviously IN THEIR INTEREST.
In other words, I don't trust Microsoft, but I trust Microsoft to BE Microsoft. The X-Box will be around for a while yet.
I'll agree that the worst thing going for Microsoft is Microsoft brand itself BUT the XBox is actually one of the few areas that has escaped the blackhole that is "just another crappy Microsoft product".
I know Mac and Linux users as well as non-tech users that love their XBox 360. I've often overheard people say "XBox is the one thing Microsoft has done right" or "If they put J Allard in charge of more things maybe Microsoft could create something useful."
The real issue isn't people being turned off of using the XBox 360 as a media extender because of it being a Microsoft product, it's the fact that Microsoft hasn't done anything to promote the media experience side of the 360. Unless you actually own a 360 most people don't know everything you can do with it.
Personally I think they're holding off on the whole "XBox as a home entertainment hub" marketing until they get IPTV nailed down. Then they'll release a version that is marketed towards the living room media segment vs. the gaming segment.
Perhaps the biggest reason I get so frustrated on this issue is that I'm perhaps a more tech savy user than that average consumer, so I don't need a brand to make me feel good about a purchase. I could care less if something is from a name brand or some generic, no-name, white-box ACME brand. I have the skill set determine if a product is good based on it's actual merits, not on slick marketing, but I do understand that if tech isn't someone's speciality they will end up putting more stock in a name.
Actually I know I'm not the norm when it comes to having a hardwired house and I'm always very aware that I'm not the normal consumer segment. Heck, the only reason I have drops all over the house is simply because we bought new and that's the new thing these days, every phone jack is also an ethernet port. I was suprised as hell, but pleasently so, to find a patch panel in my closet. Every new house and townhouse in my area has the same setup, comes stock.
That actually wasn't my point though, it was that it was nice to have the option with the 360 vs. having to eat the cost regardless if you needed it or not.
Sure, that's a good point, but I think it loses some of its potency once you get beyond the realm of pure gaming and into the "living room media hub" realm, where nearly all non-tech customers and even many computer-savvy people suddenly become very confused, very fast.
It was only a few years ago that the computer was on your desk for work and the VCR or DVD player was in the living room connected to your television and next to your analog cable box and your stereo with your racks of CDs and it all made sense. The biggest hurdle was memorizing which remote did what.
Now the industry is asking everyone to abandon all of that, and replace it with...what?
Basically, with a murkily-defined, bewildering set of options that has them suddenly worried about DRM; about file formats; about NTSC vs. HD; about Plays4Sure vs. FairPlay; about portable devices and their games/songs/movies/ringtones/voice messages/emails/trailers/blogs/rss/photographs/home video/podcasts. Go the wrong direction, buy the wrong expensive machine, and you could end up with a media library that doesn't work or is the wrong format or won't play in a week or doesn't have the right subtitles or languages or DVD region capabilites.
My point is that even "we" (geeks) have to really concentrate and keep track. I pay very close attention, and I'm still stuck with an entire season of LOST at 320x240 that Apple won't replace with the new versions, because that's not how it works...and I'm the one holding Apple up as one of the EASY choices.
It's easy to miss how frightening and confusing all this is. Getting a televsion program from the internet onto a television through an XBox is something that would make nearly anyone's head hurt, even though (tragically) it might be the best solution.
(P.S. It's "Jordan" with an "a")
Ohh, I love rebuttals :)
- "You already have to use that other remote to set your TV source."
It's a matter of frequency. You set the TV source once at the beginning while you probably want to adjust the volume quite a bit more during normal viewing. This issue could be a wash though if you can map the remote functions to a universal remote, like my Logitech Harmony remote which controls everything, including my reciever, TV, DVD playser, XBox 360 and Sonos, all with a single remote.
- "Not only does your bias show, your ignorance does too."
I thought my bias was apparant from the start? Sorry, I tried to make it clear :) Just to make sure none of us are too ignorant Apple TV can *not* play everything that iTunes can. Also my point as that the only *advantage* in terms of video playback between Apple TV and the XBox 360 was that ATV can play iTunes while the 360 can't.
Also, all "hardware hacks" are disqualified from this discussion. You can almost always hack anything to work however you want it. What we are talking about is the average consumer out-of-box, as-designed experience.
- "For now. Apple has already said they’ll have that working shortly."
It's odd, some companies seem to get raked over the coals for making users apply updates after a product ships to activate functionality that should have been there on day one, yet others get praised for releasing a product at all and being so kind and giving that they add basic functionality later via a patch.
- "Any yet, its still quite a bit less than your so-called 'better solution'. Oh, and quieter, with a much smaller footprint."
Must be in how you do the math. I can pick up a XBox 360 Core system, retail, for the exact same price as an Apple TV. My 360 is rather quiet when not playing games since the fan isn't spinning, I can't even hear it in my entertainment center. Can't argue about the smaller footprint, though since I'm not actually hurting for space this issue is a wash.
I don't see how bringing earnings into the picture actually affects a technical discussion between two pieces of hardware. This isn't an Apple vs. Microsoft issue with me. You could wipe all branding from both products, never tell me who made either, even put both inside the same box, and these are still the exact issues I'd have.
For the record though MSFT stock is actually up I believe, at one of the higher points it's been in 5 years.
- "First, you chastise aTV for the lack of cables. Yet you find the lack of WiFi a feature of XBox? Interesting take."
Not really, I'm asking for consistancy. If Apple is going for an easy-to-use, out-of-box experience then they should include cables. You should be good to go the second you open that box. Cables are cheap.
"Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV."
*AHEM* an ethernet port generates about as much heat as that diagnostic USB port on the back of the aTV. *AHEM* the fan doesn't run when using an XBox as a media streamer/DVR extender.
- "Talk about people who don’t get it. Wow. First, that’s what the WiFi is for. She doesn’t have to drag out her laptop from the office. She simply has to go upstairs to it, make her purchase, and sync it up via that WiFi."
*laugh* sorry, but you pretty much proved my point. Having to touch your computer to watch TV is ridiculous. If you have to leave your couch at any point in the media watching experience then it has failed. My wife doesn't want to go upstairs, boot her computer, touch her computer, SEE her computer to watch TV. She is not a nerd like us and sees the computer as just another tool. Seriously, "simply go upstairs, make purchase, sync via wifi" is about 3 steps too many.
The whole issue gets worse when I imagine having to explain the "simple" process of finding a computer, making a purchase and then syncing to visiting friends or family. I'd have to create an instruction sheet just so they could purchase the latest episode of CSI.
- "Is it possible that they might allow you to purchase iTunes content in the future?"
Sure, it's also possible that in the future there will be some other product that is still better than the aTV, or that FairPlay will be opened up, or that a new IPTV version of the 360 will be out by then, or some third-party will have something better than either the aTV or x360, so let's just stick with what the thing can do now, shall we?
"Microsoft’s copy-protection schemes drive me crazy, though. In the article, I noted that when you buy movies on the Xbox, they’re downloaded directly to the machine. You can’t copy them to another machine, play them elsewhere, burn them to disc, and so on."
You see, I learn something new everyday. I didn't realize that you could purchase HD movies from the iTunes Store and then burn them and copy them to other machines. That's great! Seriously, that right there gives the iTunes store a huge advantage. I'm curious, how much do the movie purchases cost? So you can really keep them forever? Are you allowed to download them again? Is there no limit to how often you burn them? Speaking of that, are they in 720p or 1080p (or even i)?
Last, what format are the HD movies that you can buy from the iTunes Store in? Since you lambast copy-protection schemes I assume they're not even in some FairPlay copy-protected format either? Are they divx? That's awesome! I had no idea you could just buy unprotected HD movies from iTunes.
"Moreover, movies are time-crippled in three different ways."
Yes, you are *renting* the movies but I fail to see how the rental limits matter. Why would you rent a movie if you weren't ready to watch it? I will say though that it does take about 20 minutes from purchase (at your TV) to watching it, while it downloads enough to start viewing. That's annoying. How about the iTunes Store, how long does it take before you can start watching an HD movie?
Also, that only applies for movies. When you purchase TV shows you have them forever. If you decide to delete an episode you can also always redownload it later. So even if a water pipe bursts and your 360 is destroyed you can buy a new 360, log in and redownload every TV episode you've ever purchased.
Whew, that was a long rebuttal but I do want to point out one thing... I'm brand agnostic, I don't care about Apple vs. Microsoft or Ford vs. Chevy or Democrate vs. Republican. I want the best value for my dollar, the best idea regardless of who it comes from, the best car that fits my needs, the best canidate that is inline with what I want for me and my family.
From what I want to do in my living, for my entire family, for how I use media, Apple TV is too expensive and too under-whelming for what it does. For the record I was actually interested in buying an Apple TV. I use a 360 in my living room for all our DVR, video and photo needs but I thought an Apple TV for a secondary TV would be nice. Given the price and limitations though there goes that idea. Maybe if it hits a more realistic $99 price point.
Paul, meet Plays4Sure. Anything else?
Must be in how you do the math. I can pick up a XBox 360 Core system, retail, for the exact same price as an Apple TV. My 360 is rather quiet when not playing games since the fan isn’t spinning, I can’t even hear it in my entertainment center. Can’t argue about the smaller footprint, though since I’m not actually hurting for space this issue is a wash.
That's interesting. Because I'm on the Xbox.com site, "Which console for you" site at http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/compare101.htm, and i see that it appears that you can't do anything BUT stream from a PC or play CDs and DVDs on a core system. To use Live, or save even game data, you have to buy a hard drive or memory cards. Now, if all you care about are game saves and game data, you can get by with a memory card, but if you want to download movies? you need that hard drive.
That hard drive jacks the price of the Core up by about ninety bucks, at least according to Amazon. So in truth, the better, at least more honest comparison between the Xbox and the AppleTV is NOT the Xbox Core system.
For the record though MSFT stock is actually up I believe, at one of the higher points it’s been in 5 years.
Yeah, but it's only twenty-eight bucks a share, and the highest it's been in that time is just a tish over thirty. If you look at its performance in that period, it's not been terribly good.
“Second, WiFi is not only forward-looking, something that Apple consistantly does anymore, it eliminates the need for a noisy fan-cooled computer *AHEM* XBox *AHEM* sitting next to your TV.”
*AHEM* an ethernet port generates about as much heat as that diagnostic USB port on the back of the aTV. *AHEM* the fan doesn’t run when using an XBox as a media streamer/DVR extender.
Actually NEITHER of then generate diddly unless they're being used, and in any case, the heat we're talking about is negligible. If you want to argue about heat, compare the CPU, hard drive, and power supply thermal characteristics, not the friggin' I/O ports. Yeesh.
Yes, you are *renting* the movies but I fail to see how the rental limits matter. Why would you rent a movie if you weren’t ready to watch it? I will say though that it does take about 20 minutes from purchase (at your TV) to watching it, while it downloads enough to start viewing. That’s annoying. How about the iTunes Store, how long does it take before you can start watching an HD movie?
Actually, if you look at the usage patterns for a lot of netflix users, they'll often rent something they aren't planning on viewing right away.
To be blunt, Netflix only loses to the Xbox in terms of immediacy. In every other way, it blows the Xbox away. (iTunes too, except in the "you bought it you own it" thing)
You get all the DVD special features. You can keep it as long as you want, and view it as many times as you want. You get it at full disc resolution. You can play it and have it look good for cheaper than EITHER an AppleTV or an Xbox. (I bought a new Sony five-disc DVD player with a surround sound system for cheaper than either. Five discs and speakers? My purchase pwns BOTH the Xbox and the Apple TV, and is simpler to use than either.)
Both Microsoft and Apple have a way to go before they can beat the netflix experience.
You see, I learn something new everyday. I didn’t realize that you could purchase HD movies from the iTunes Store and then burn them and copy them to other machines. That’s great! Seriously, that right there gives the iTunes store a huge advantage. I’m curious, how much do the movie purchases cost? So you can really keep them forever? Are you allowed to download them again? Is there no limit to how often you burn them? Speaking of that, are they in 720p or 1080p (or even i)?
If you read the movie faq at http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=..., you find the answers to many questions.
What are the usage rights with movies?
You can transfer to five computers, sync with all the iPods you own, and burn to DVD for data archiving purposes only (not for DVD playback). You can also sync to up to five Apple TVs which don't count as one of your five computers.
How does that backup experience work with movies?
You can back up a movie with a DVD or hard drive. If you back up to a DVD, you can use the iTunes Backup feature, that will lead you through the backup process (choose File > Backup to Disc). To back up to an external hard drive, you simply drag the source movie files to the hard drive icon on your desktop or in My Computer.
So you can burn to DVD for backup not playback, (no, I don't get why this is magically better, but when you read the MPAA and RIAA rants on things, you realize that "sense" is not a major part of their world, and both Microsoft and Apple have to play along with a group of insane chimps in this case.), and you can play the movies on multiple computers or Apple TVs.
How much does a movie cost?
Movies typically range from $14.99 for new releases to $9.99 for most other movies.
From what I can tell, the movie downloads are not HD quality, but I'm not completely sure. Personally, since I don't have an HD rig, I don't really care.
Then they think, “It’s Apple,” and that soothes their fears."
It's my understanding that the newest iPod models don't support Firewire, which would "screw" me, since my Mac supports Firewire, but not USB2.0 (it supports USB1.1, but that's dog slow for data transfer).
The Xbox fanboys need to stop. People by Xbox360s for games, and the other functionality is a bonus. Nobody will buy and Xbox360 because they're explicitly looking for a media viewing device. And Microsoft wouldn't want them to; anyone that bought and Xbox360 primarily for media viewing rather than gaming hurts Microsoft's bottom line as they'd not make money on the game licenses. Sony will encounter this from folks that buy PS3s to watch bluray discs rather than play games.
The Apple fanboys also need to take a breath. No way in hell Apple TV will be as successful as the iPod, for many reasons.
Plays4Sure still exists and is supported.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/p...
Just because Zune doesn't support it doesn't mean that the software, online stores, and hardware no longer function.
The fact is, Zune is in a different division than Plays4Sure. Many claim that they want Microsoft split up, well this is something like that. Zune is a separate "company" than is Plays4Sure, and they don't happen to be compatible, just like they wouldn't necessarily be if they really were separate companies. The Zune "company" wants to follow the iPod model of a closed system, where they have their own hardware, own DRM, and own store. Plays4Sure still exists and still follows the model of an open system, with a DRM that is supported by multiple hardware providers and multiple online stores.
So, was all the talk of wanting Microsoft split up just BS? Because it seems that most prefer Apple's strategy, which is based on being much more closed than is Microsoft.
Respectfully, you either didn't read my entire post or didn't grasp what I was getting at. I gave my own example of how I got "screwed" (low-res copies of purchased TV shows that I cannot now upgrade and must buy again, now that Apple has doubled the resolution of their offerings).
My point is about consumer perceptions. GENERALLY, people think, "Apple won't screw me," and then spend accordingly.
If you reread the post you quoted, you'll see that I actually do make a cogent presentation of this argument and I am fully aware (in my post) of the difference between market perceptions and hardware/software realities.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/p...
Just because Zune doesn’t support it doesn’t mean that the software, online stores, and hardware no longer function.
Oh sure. And of course, Microsoft is pouring just as much money into promoting Plays4Sure as the Zune. Why, just the other day, in Best Buy, I saw a nice large set of advertising material...no, wait, that was the Zune.
Come to think of it...where IS all the Plays4Sure marketing since the Zune came out?
Paul, meet Plays4Sure. Anything else?"
Yes, I could point out at this pont that you are simply engaging in empty point-scoring rhetoric without any regard to the original point I was trying to make. There is no sense in which Microsoft could have been said to "bet big" on Plays4Sure. How big an investment was this of their resources? This is not comparable to the X-Box in any way shape or form. You are still reacting as if I am saying 'Trust what Microsoft says' and aren't reading me the least bit carefully. And the laughable part is, I am a Mac user only, like you, have been for decades. But you just are not someone I can have a reasonable discussion with because you DON'T READ, you just react. As a result, I conclude that it is a waste of my time to interact with you further. HAND.
I purchased one on Friday and:
* at the time of purchase there was lots of inventory in my local Apple store, went back to the mall the next day, popped into the Apple store and there were only three left. Interested in inventory checks of others at their local stores.
* Being able to visualize on my TV all of my iTunes songs (ripped from CD's and purchased from iTune) with Album art, and listening through my home theatre is quite wonderful. I like it better than listing through my iPod or computer, by far.
* I hooked mine up on my 4:3 TV with component cables and it works like a charm both in 480i and 1080i.
* Viewing movie trailers etc is fun and useful.
* I have started ripping my DVD collection with Handbrake and the result is as good as watching these movies on the original DVD. This is akin to ripping your CD's into iTunes and saves one from having to purchase the same movies over again and, the quality is, I believe better than those purchased through iTunes. Being able to Rip CD's into MP3's was a huge reason that iTunes did so well, being able to the same with DVD's will, I believe, have the same effect.
* There is a "ton" of content to watch in the form of Video Podcasts, all free and easy to find on iTunes. In a sense this is an Apple TV network and is FREE. Watch for this category to explode in popularity.
* Being able to view my photo's and even slide shows with music is really nice and beats by far, having my family huddle around a computer. Much nicer to view it from the couch.
All in all, this Apple TV is a screaming value deal, so good in fact that I really wonder about the agenda of the posters who have stated otherwise.
Buy one, you'll love it.
Oooh. I have been pwn3d by someone trapped in the late 90s. Was that with two snaps and a circle too?
It's funny, because when Plays4Sure came out, there was ALL kinds of rhetoric from Redmond and Ballmer about how they were going to use this to bury the iPod, how committed they were, blah, blah, blah.
Then it didn't work. Shit, another body to bury.
If the Xbox hadn't succeeded, or the 360 had tanked compared to the others, you think they wouldn't have taken it out back and shot it?
Yeah. See, the Xbox has been a success. Not as much as the PS/2, the DS, or as much as the Wii is shaping up to be, but then, the Xbox never really directly competed with Nintendo at any level.
It competes with Sony, and it is doing *quite* well there. But don't confuse corporate rhetoric with "carved in stone". Plays4Sure had a ton of rhetoric and noise behind it when it came out. Now it's a zombie.
hence my example.
Oh, here's another one. WHere are all the Microsoft products from the MS-Sun alliance of 2004?
Hmm...lots of noise and commitment there, but all you have is a body in a dungeon to show for it. Same thing from Sun.
Maybe, and I know it's hard to hear when you're in your "talk to the hand" phase, but maybe, corporations are about as trustworthy as a scorpion promising it won't sting you.
He is not comparing his product to any other product. He bought X. He likes X. He thinks X is great..and he said not a word about Y. So why do all the Y owners feel compelled to give their 2c about their product? Are they misreading Mr. Scoble's post? Are they too bleary-eyed from gaming to be able to properly read and comprehend plain english? What are they about?
It does NOT currently support 1080 video. Now if he wants to change the post and say that as far as he knows it will support 1080 video in the future, that is a far different statement, but as it stands TODAY, the friggin' thing does not support 1080 video.
Heck, as it stands TODAY, the device only supports 720P video at 24 FPS which is hardly what one could call quality...
Whereas, the Xbox 360, TODAY can handle 1080 video. So this would make the addition of the Apple TV into his home theater system completely irrelevant, TODAY.
This does not mean that the Apple TV product isn't good, or doesn't add value for some people, but for those who already have an Xbox 360, Apple TV adds NOTHING.
If you consider this, it's no surprise 360 edges out in isolation. HDTV is not the mainstream amongst iPod owners or public in general, but almost all 360 owners would be. So a content service designed for 360 also makes sense to deliver in hi-res. Actually, that's a must. Yet you are still bound by your couch, aren't you? Everything you see on aTV can be taken out on the road, and vice-versa. "Take your iTunes content everywhere including your couch" is what Apple is saying. Then why is aTV not being marketted as an extension to the iPod like I said earlier? That's because despite its current limitations due to its duties to the current iPod-driven content service, Apple recognises its potential as an independent product. As Scoble rightly puts it, Apple underpromises and overdelivers. For now it has answered and delivered to those who wanted their iTunes contents on TV. You can bet your bottom dollar that it will support hi-res and more soon.
(The fact is that, as you say, Apple is underpromising, and that 4:3 is supported despite Apple's tech specs saying the contrary.)
I find your statement, if not confirmed with real world testing, that it does not output in 1080i is just as problematic as claiming that it does support it.
It outputs at whatever your TV can handle (480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i) and upscales/downscales everything to match, similar to how an upscaling DVD player can output to an HD TV at 1080i, but the source material is all in 480i/p.
As far as I can tell there is no composite or S-Video connections on the Apple TV so anyone with an older TV will not be able to use it without some sort of converter.
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07...
No kidding. You sound quite defensive about something that you don't own and don't want to own. Stop repeating yourself. I can read a web page as good as anyone.
However, you have ZERO evidence that it does not support video at higher resolutions. All that you have is the ability to read a web page.
"They never said it couldn’t do 4:3 (that’s what 480P video is), but they have clearly shown that your TV requires component video or HDMI video inputs to use it."
Completely incorrect. They DO say widescreen required. They mention the inputs, but they are specifically avoiding saying any tv, widescreen or not, with component video inputs (not S-composite) because of simplicity.
Since you are repeating things that are perfectly clear, I will do so as well: it is already known that Apple is purposefully limiting its tech specs to avoid confusion and support issues. We can not make ASSUMPTIONS (which you are doing) based on their specs.
source:http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2007/03/appletvbriefing/index.php
After lots of reading I now plan on getting an Apple TV later this summer, as soon as I get my new HDTV
You seem to think that I am somehow dissing this product, when I could really care less about it one way or the other. It doesn't fill a hole in my home theater as there are already other products there that do the same functionality (and more).
I can see where it would fit into someone else's entertainment system, but for those of us already with a media extender (all it really is) and a DVR it adds nothing.
Particularly, if, like me, you could care less about iTunes.
Anyhow, my whole point in commenting here was to get my brother to change his inaccurate statement about it supporting 1080 video, which he did (although his statement could still be tweaked a bit).
Until Apple or someone else comes out with updated information that it will accept better than 720P x 24FPS video, that is all one can say about it.
Something for which YOU, sir Goebbels, have ZERO evidence of.
*** End of line ***
Yes, I am.
"You seem to think that I am somehow dissing this product, when I could really care less about it one way or the other."
Clearly, you are, but I don't care. I care about your baseless proclamations.
"Until Apple or someone else comes out with updated information that it will accept better than 720P x 24FPS video, that is all one can say about it."
No, one can say: this is very likely capable of more, and it should be tested. I'm sure Robert wants to test it and ultimately will. I'll wait for that.
"In fact to suggest otherwise is to assume that it can do something other than the stated specs."
Yes. That's been pretty obvious from the get go.
"Something for which YOU, sir Goebbels, have ZERO evidence of."
No, actually, there is evidence: as stated about 6 times already, it supports 4:3 non-HD tvs.
Come to think of it…where IS all the Plays4Sure marketing since the Zune came out?"
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Seems to me that the marketing is the same as it's always been. There've *never* been big Plays4Sure signs at BestBuy. And the "marketing" is the site that I referred to, which lists the various Plays4Sure devices. And why should Microsoft spend as much money marketing Plays4Sure as Zune? Plays4Sure is a multi-vendor thing, the marketing of which is spread out among those vendors. Microsoft has to market Zune all on their own.
I've noticed that whenever your point is disproved, you move the goalposts.
Welch: Microsoft abandoned Plays4Sure.
Me: Nope, it's still supported and here's the URL proving as much...
Welch: They don't spend as much marketing it as Zune!!
Look, you were proven wrong. Man up and accept it rather than whining like a spoiled brat. Paul was right when he said this about you above: "But you just are not someone I can have a reasonable discussion with because you DON’T READ, you just react."
"It’s funny, because when Plays4Sure came out, there was ALL kinds of rhetoric from Redmond and Ballmer about how they were going to use this to bury the iPod, how committed they were, blah, blah, blah.
Then it didn’t work. Shit, another body to bury."
Um, what exactly is your point? Microsoft felt that an open system would succeed over a closed one, similar to the PC/OS market itself. Obviously it didn't work, so Microsoft changed strategy. You're trashing Microsoft for one of the following reasons, none of which make sense:
1. That they dared predict that Plays4Sure would be successful when they started it. OMG, how horrible for a company to show confidence in one of its initiatives!!
2. When Plays4Sure failed against iPod, Microsoft began a new initiative that more closely followed iPod's closed strategy. OME, how horrible for a company to begin a new initiative after an earlier one failed!!
3. You despise Microsoft, and will trash them no matter what they do.
Seems that (3) is the answer in your case. We've got your number.
And I LOLed when you grudgingly admitted to Xbox's success. Must be an extremely bitter pill for you. BTW, how's that Pippin doing for you? As Apple fanboy #1, you probably lined up at BestBuy to get one. Oh, I forgot: Apple abandoned it BECAUSE IT FAILED. So those that did buy one were screwed over. So even Apple changes strategy (or, in Pippin's case *abandons* it) when needed.
It keeps getting stuck after importing 4 posts then the
I guess the Apple TV isn't priced badly for what you get. Although, I think they can still do a little better and I hope that in the next generation of Apple TV we're going to see a heck of a lot more compatibility – as that's the real problem with it for me right now.
I guess the Apple
1. Can buy video right there on the xbox. No need to hook up to media center or even have a computer in the house. http://www.yyoutube.net