Scoble, sorry to hear about the trolls. It was pretty brazen of them to be in your face in public. Anyways, keep giving honest reviews of products and your fanbase will stick with you. Much love.
Yohannes Wijaya
· 2 years ago
Robert, On thursday night, David Randolph of Revision3 had an ingenious idea of putting the cell number of one of these two kids on digg and encourage diggers to send voice mail and sms. One of the guys on our side was fishing for the number and he took the bait. We imagined the fury his father would have when the phone bill comes in at the end of the month. I didnt know how the story ends, however.
Jan B.
· 2 years ago
I don't understand that type of human behaviour. I watch a TV show where people have problems with their dogs. Apparently, you have to be the pact leader at home, or one of your dogs will take that role. It appears that the same behaviour is valid for some human beings. They will try to dominate you, until you are forced to dominate them. I hate it. It's a lose-lose game and it leads to nothing good.
Chris
· 2 years ago
There has to be a goal to trolling. If they are trolling for free then they are stupid. If Nokia paid them, then they did their jobs and good for them. A lot of forum and digg trolls are paid. It's pathetic but there it is. Remember the E3 crowd that MS paid to cross their arms in an X and cheer for Xbox? The same thing happens on digg and other services.
There are professional trolls you can pay to do this. If they went as far as to get up in your face and stuff, I bet they got a hefty reward.
Chris
· 2 years ago
A big hint would be if they were trying to get the Nokia logo on camera when the TV crews started filming, or the N95 product advert on a t-shirt. If they were escorted away by security we may never know. I think in that case, they'll still get paid though if they were in fact pay trolls/guerilla marketing. I hear you can make a living off of that just like the people who make a living off of being pharmaceutical guinea pigs full time.
Tom
· 2 years ago
Sorry to hear about this, especially given that it's over the N95. As I've said before, it's a one-trick pony (killer camera) with otherwise unspectacular web, email, etc. And of course nothing like the iPhone's ease of use.
No one could possibly say the N95 is a better device than the iPhone -- not and be taken seriously -- unless they made it clear they heavily weighted their rating on the camera functionality of both devices. No one would dispute that if a camera is the absolute highest priority the N95 was practically made for you. Not just over the iPhone, but likely all other smartphones as well. But I've mentioned before I think the market for smartphone users who require a killer camera is pretty small.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
I'm keeping my N95 for now cause I want to wait until my euphoria over the iPhone wears off a little more to see if I still think the iPhone is the best device. Let's say a week.
Translation: I don't have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I'll give it to one of my readers instead of trying to profit off of someone else's gift to me.
Podesta
· 2 years ago
Robert made the mistake of linking to a Symbian/Nokia site owner's YouTube video putting down the iPhone's camera. That information was passed around on Symbian and Nokia sites such as the Howard Forums, as well as YouTube. When the trolls got tired of iPhone hate on their own sites, they decided to come over here. I'm not kiidding about the hate. There is no balance in their response to the iPhone.
Actually the fellow, Ricky Something, made a half-dozen videos, claiming that the N95 bests the iPhones in various ways. He's been reasonably polite when he is here, but tells lies and encourages trolling on other sites. After all, he makes his living off the Symbian/Nokia bread train.
I have no problem acknowledging that the camera in the N95 is better than the one in the iPhone. However, the claim that the N95 is a better convergence device overall is laughable.
Podesta
· 2 years ago
Corrections: "kidding" and 'gravy train"
Henrikki
· 2 years ago
Sorry to hear about the trolls in your comment section.
I haven't used the iPhone, so I really can't compare it to the N95. It has a fatal flaw in my perspective though: the touchscreen.
I looks pretty and can be spectacular (and let's face it, Apple is good in that). In everyday use however (95 % percent of the tasks you do with your phone) joystick and buttons used with one hand is easier and faster way to do it.
Anyway, this is my thinking without having tried out the iPhone.
Let the communication continue..:)
Raoul
· 2 years ago
Too bad people in the US are so litigious, and the laws are so ridiculously strict. In other countries, a perfectly acceptable thing to do to those two teens would be to slap them around a bit. I have a feeling that would have knocked some sense into them. We're so touchy-feely here in the US, and then we have to deal with our due share of personality disorders. If we were more cut and dry about things, people would be more respectful.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Raoul: if it weren't for all the media being around we would have duct taped them to a tree. I'm sure that would have gotten a lot of applause, but I didn't want to spend a night in jail for abusing a kid. Lots of us in line thought about doing that, though.
T Man
· 2 years ago
It's kind of funny you mention this like it is something new or that it is somehow only anti-iPhone. As a Windows guy, I've been in dozens of situations on forums where we will be talking about whatever, and the trolls start to invade. Look at Paul Thurrots WinInformant comments to see what I mean. This is a common occurrence, and the Apple guys do exact same thing as the Nokia guys, as the Motorola guys, as the Verizon guys, as the MS Mobile guys, as the... Well, you get my point. Everyone is guilty of it, so it is a little disingenuous to call out these Nokia guys like you have something that is so special. Remember, just as much as they are against you, you are for something. And at the end of the day, it's just a phone.
This trolling is not only limited to computers. Cars, sports teams, cities/states/countries, who has the best Potassium, etc.
amal ekbal
· 2 years ago
Since you have both N95 and iPhone ... how is the web rendering capabilities in the FP1 S60 browser v/s iPhone/Safari. Is iPhone/Safari able to render things better?
I was under the impression that the two browsers should be very close (except for the touch interface) .... since they both have the same Javascript and KHTML core.
Chris
· 2 years ago
"Translation: I don’t have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway. I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I’ll give it to one of my readers"
If you were smart you would
A. sign up for a different ebay account B. sell the N95 C. use the money to purchase the iPhone. D. tell puremobile you gave it to a reader in the unlikely occurance that they ask.
Brett Nordquist
· 2 years ago
Now that would have been a great Podshow video. A couple of punks getting duct taped to a tree. Must have been hard to keep from going after them. With the media, crowd and nobody wanting to get out of line, the punks had a nearly ideal audience to hassle. As punishment, I hope they are forced to run Vista.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Amal: the rendering is probably technically similar but the iPhone's interaction is so superior it isn't funny. It makes you think the rendering is better. Either way, it isn't even close. The iPhone dramatically wins on the Web.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
TMan: I just am calling out the Nokia guys cause they are the ones in my face today. Tomorrow it might be someone else.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
Podesta
-Since we're clearing up lies...
1. Howardforums is not a Symbian/Nokia site. It's a mobile phone forum, complete with an Apple forum.
2. I most certainly do not "make a living" on my site. I can assure you that the ad revenue wouldn't even pay my cellphone bill.
3. I don't encourage trolling anywhere.
4. I certainly don't iPhone-bash. I do, however, point out where marketing is in over their head (as an ad sales rep, it's easy to see things like that) and will point out where a specific device fails or suffers. If you're such an "avid" reader of my site, you'll also see that when the N95 was launched, I was very quick to say the reasons that I didn't think it would be a good purchase.
After I was given one, I did an objective review and found that it was still lacking in the areas where it lacks, and said so.
There's a big difference in all-out bashing and in simply pointing out weaknesses. Robert hasn't bashed the N95 (that I've heard/read) but simply pointed out areas in which he thinks that the iPhone is better.
I won't sit here and argue iPhone vs. N95 on Robert's blog. I just want to clear up lies that are being said about me.
Ny Nj
· 2 years ago
:LOL God help those kids if they had attempted something like that here in the New York City.
Walking past many of those waiting in line on our way to work - you know you'd better not mess around
Richard Callaby
· 2 years ago
I would not call you a moron for thinking one product is better than another. That is just personal opinion. It is kind of cool to hear the stories you tell of the people who you meet in line waiting for this phone. I guess that was the attraction of it all. Not the object itself but rather the "community" that forms around it.
Interesting and I think I will tell one of my former professors about this as he wrote a book called the "Sacred Santa" that explores how consumerism is becoming a religion in of itself. Not saying what you did was a "religous" experience but to some it could be seen as such.
This is a subject that cannot be covered in a comment on a blog so I am not tryign to cover all the bases here. Basically, I wanted to let you know that I DO UNDERSTAND Robert.
Yohannes Wijaya
· 2 years ago
Robert, I have one unopened if you want one next week. I bought an extra just in case.
Bill Dalsen
· 2 years ago
Sorry to hear about the trolls, Robert. Truly foolish, impudent people.
Song Kim
· 2 years ago
Thanks for the comparison. Interesting and helpful. Feel sorry that you had to deal with trolls.
Chris
· 2 years ago
If somebody gives you a gift, then you resell it. That's not ethically wrong. Otherwise it's a loan on condition. I've sold gifts I didn't want before, and I don't see a problem with that. Happens every day.
Michael A. Banks
· 2 years ago
Pity, you can't just have them blown into an alternate universe. What a way to demonstrate "empowerment." Reminds me of an ex-fiance's sister. --Mike
Aruni
· 2 years ago
That is so odd/rude. If any of my children (when they are older--they are now only 4 and 2) had done that, I would have taken away some pretty important privelge. I hope we are raising them to know not to do things like that.
Is it really impossible to form a barrier against trolls online? Sounds like a potential business opportunity.
With all of this hype, I'm wondering if the iPhone will really deliver over time.
Charbax
· 2 years ago
You're missing the point.
Neigther the iPhone nor the N95 are any really good value for the crazy expensive prices that they cost.
Nokia is 750$ (+ subscription?) iPhone is 600$ (+ 1440$ - 2400$ 24-month subscription contract)
Given the fact that neigther are going to last any more than a few months, those are both not to recommend anyone else than someone who has no problems paying a lot of money for a product that is not going to last.
In my opinion the killer feature that will be usefull in the longer term, provide the good reason to invest more than into a 10$ pre-paid phone, that's when the Archos 605 WiFi or the N800 will be comming with VOIP on WiFi, HSDPA and later WiMax.
If your device comes with 2G data service, then you might as well get a 10$ pre-paid clamshell phone with virginmobile or something like that which will give you the same use.
Though when there will be 800x480 4" screen products with PC-like Opera browser experience, with full Flash and Javascript support, and providing free unlimited worldwide VOIP and IM using all of WiFi, HSDPA and WiMax, then those are gonna be the revolutionnary product.
Thus far iPhone and N95 are not revolutionary, they are simply temporary flashy bricks for rich kids and misguided early adopters.
Some Guy
· 2 years ago
Oh, please! You're a professional troll yourself. After all the hogwash you spewed to try to prop up the evil empire, you have the gall to complain about anyone else trolling? Give me a break.
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Some Guy: yeah, right. I guess you missed all my praise of Google back when I worked there, or when I told Steve Ballmer that his leadership on a gay-rights issue was wrong, or when I was quoted in Time Magazine for telling Bill Gates that he should split up the company.
If you're going to troll at least write a decent flame. My 13-year-old can flame better than that and he'll sign his name to it, too!
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
Charbax, oh, please, can you imagine the people Patrick met yesterday on our photowalk carrying around an N800? I can't. Get a clue about the cell phone market, please!
And lots of us have expensive devices that aren't the iPhone. Treos, Razrs, Blackberries, SmartPhones, all cost more than $400 when first released. That's not too much different than the iPhone's price.
Ricky Cadden
· 2 years ago
Charbax -
As a PHONE, they might not be worth $600-700, but you're not taking into account everything else:
MP3 Player - ~$200 digital camera - ~$250-300 GPS unit ~$350-400
And that's not even counting the internet browsing and all that. So I could either buy all these things separate, and look like Batman walking around with a utility belt, or I can have ONE device to slip quietly in my pocket.
T Man
· 2 years ago
One thing I would like to mention that is perhaps one of the most significant trolling experiences that I have heard of. I don't know all of the particulars of the story, but a young scrappy individual was working for this big company called Microsoft. MS is well hated by the Apple camp, just in case you did not know that. Said person from MS meets Steve Jobs of Apple on the street somewhere. Steve was probably buying a turtleneck that day, or something like that. The young man introduces himself, and in a very troll-like fashion, Jobs says something to the effect of "I finally get the chance to meet the people that are always copying us" or something like that. Said person was a little taken aback, and even later recalled the story, indicating that he had thought about a ton of replies that he could have said, but did not.
Robert, have you heard of this story?
Robert Scoble
· 2 years ago
T Man: um, and HOW is that trolling again? I introduced myself to him and listened to him and didn't even say anything back when greeted rudely. That's 180 degrees from the behavior we're talking about here. If you don't even know what a troll is, maybe you're one and not able to identify that behavior in yourself.
T Man
· 2 years ago
Technically, in the Internet parlance of the word, trolling is confined to a web site, such as a forum, or increasingly, blog comments. So in this case we are talking about, it is a moot discussion anyway, since this is really not trolling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
But, I digress...
When I think of trolling, particularly technology zealotry, I think of someone posting something to get a rise out of the forum which is clearly a certain way that is different than the troll. (I'm a Mac and I'm a PC)
So let's look at the two situations and you tell me where they are not similar:
Nokia guy goes to an iPhone line and stirs up trouble. His main intent is to to prove that the company he likes, and by extension, he, is better than you since your waiting for an Apple product, and Nokia's products are superior.
Or, *the* Apple guy goes up to an MS guy and stirs up trouble. It is obvious Steve's main intent was to prove that his company, and by extension, he, was better that you since you worked for MS, and Apple's products are superior.
Now I agree that this in your face confrontations are uncalled for, especially over what is just a phone. Although extreme, it is the same as wearing a Red Sox cap to a Yankees game, arguing on the Internet, or in an extreme form, bombing an abortion clinic. Different means, same type of behavior.
Eric Rice
· 2 years ago
@Aruni one thing about blocking trolls is the consensus of what or who is a troll by a majority. There are people I enjoy reading that other friends consider trolls and vice versa. Who is right?
Hey Robert, one thing this Nokia vs. Apple debate has sparked, is that I have had no clue about the Nokia before, and now I'm seriously considering one. I have no experience on either device and I've witnessed more conversation, flaming, fanboys, and propaganda spewing from both iPhone and N95 people. So I'm coming at this from scratch.
Kinda tough being an informed consumer in spite of how religious the information is.
Mark Anderson
· 2 years ago
Robert, you are entitled to your opinion and it's quite sad that someone should call you a moron for expressing it. After all this is merely a conversation about cellphones, it's not serious business.
That said, labeling Nokia owners as trolls because of the ill advised comments of a few is a bit harsh. A difference of opinion does not indicate that someone is trolling. There are some very valid points made in terms of what the iPhone doesn't do in the previous topic.
Ultimately our preferences are individual. If it were any other way then life would be intolerably boring.
Aruni
· 2 years ago
@Eric - yes, you are right everything is relative...I suppose the same thing could be said of spammers. One person's spam is another person's treasure. My guess is that most spammers could be considered by the consensus as spammers and the same goes for trolls. I'm sure there will eventually be troll gaurd like there is spam gaurd...
What is that law about for every positive reaction there is an equal and opposite negative reaction??? I'll have to bone up on my physics/chemistry before saying that's 100% accurate.
Vlad
· 1 year ago
Shame to have found your post so late, it's just that latest events in Georgia and their coverage in (mostly) Russian blogs somewhat threw paid-trolls-issue right in my face. Just my 2 cents on the issue - while I can certainly realize the value in paid trolling for products, I see little leverage in paid trolling for government. So if you have any new material on the issue I'd be happy if you revisited.
All Comments
A lot of forum and digg trolls are paid. It's pathetic but there it is. Remember the E3 crowd that MS paid to cross their arms in an X and cheer for Xbox? The same thing happens on digg and other services.
There are professional trolls you can pay to do this.
If they went as far as to get up in your face and stuff, I bet they got a hefty reward.
No one could possibly say the N95 is a better device than the iPhone -- not and be taken seriously -- unless they made it clear they heavily weighted their rating on the camera functionality of both devices. No one would dispute that if a camera is the absolute highest priority the N95 was practically made for you. Not just over the iPhone, but likely all other smartphones as well. But I've mentioned before I think the market for smartphone users who require a killer camera is pretty small.
Translation: I don't have the $700 to spend and the local store is sold out anyway.
Actually the fellow, Ricky Something, made a half-dozen videos, claiming that the N95 bests the iPhones in various ways. He's been reasonably polite when he is here, but tells lies and encourages trolling on other sites. After all, he makes his living off the Symbian/Nokia bread train.
I have no problem acknowledging that the camera in the N95 is better than the one in the iPhone. However, the claim that the N95 is a better convergence device overall is laughable.
I haven't used the iPhone, so I really can't compare it to the N95. It has a fatal flaw in my perspective though: the touchscreen.
I looks pretty and can be spectacular (and let's face it, Apple is good in that). In everyday use however (95 % percent of the tasks you do with your phone) joystick and buttons used with one hand is easier and faster way to do it.
Anyway, this is my thinking without having tried out the iPhone.
Let the communication continue..:)
This trolling is not only limited to computers. Cars, sports teams, cities/states/countries, who has the best Potassium, etc.
I was under the impression that the two browsers should be very close (except for the touch interface) .... since they both have the same Javascript and KHTML core.
I also was given the Nokia for free by PureMobile, so if I decide to get rid of it I’ll give it to one of my readers"
If you were smart you would
A. sign up for a different ebay account
B. sell the N95
C. use the money to purchase the iPhone.
D. tell puremobile you gave it to a reader in the unlikely occurance that they ask.
-Since we're clearing up lies...
1. Howardforums is not a Symbian/Nokia site. It's a mobile phone forum, complete with an Apple forum.
2. I most certainly do not "make a living" on my site. I can assure you that the ad revenue wouldn't even pay my cellphone bill.
3. I don't encourage trolling anywhere.
4. I certainly don't iPhone-bash. I do, however, point out where marketing is in over their head (as an ad sales rep, it's easy to see things like that) and will point out where a specific device fails or suffers. If you're such an "avid" reader of my site, you'll also see that when the N95 was launched, I was very quick to say the reasons that I didn't think it would be a good purchase.
After I was given one, I did an objective review and found that it was still lacking in the areas where it lacks, and said so.
There's a big difference in all-out bashing and in simply pointing out weaknesses. Robert hasn't bashed the N95 (that I've heard/read) but simply pointed out areas in which he thinks that the iPhone is better.
I won't sit here and argue iPhone vs. N95 on Robert's blog. I just want to clear up lies that are being said about me.
Walking past many of those waiting in line on our way to work - you know you'd better not mess around
Interesting and I think I will tell one of my former professors about this as he wrote a book called the "Sacred Santa" that explores how consumerism is becoming a religion in of itself. Not saying what you did was a "religous" experience but to some it could be seen as such.
This is a subject that cannot be covered in a comment on a blog so I am not tryign to cover all the bases here. Basically, I wanted to let you know that I DO UNDERSTAND Robert.
Feel sorry that you had to deal with trolls.
--Mike
Is it really impossible to form a barrier against trolls online? Sounds like a potential business opportunity.
With all of this hype, I'm wondering if the iPhone will really deliver over time.
Neigther the iPhone nor the N95 are any really good value for the crazy expensive prices that they cost.
Nokia is 750$ (+ subscription?)
iPhone is 600$ (+ 1440$ - 2400$ 24-month subscription contract)
Given the fact that neigther are going to last any more than a few months, those are both not to recommend anyone else than someone who has no problems paying a lot of money for a product that is not going to last.
In my opinion the killer feature that will be usefull in the longer term, provide the good reason to invest more than into a 10$ pre-paid phone, that's when the Archos 605 WiFi or the N800 will be comming with VOIP on WiFi, HSDPA and later WiMax.
If your device comes with 2G data service, then you might as well get a 10$ pre-paid clamshell phone with virginmobile or something like that which will give you the same use.
Though when there will be 800x480 4" screen products with PC-like Opera browser experience, with full Flash and Javascript support, and providing free unlimited worldwide VOIP and IM using all of WiFi, HSDPA and WiMax, then those are gonna be the revolutionnary product.
Thus far iPhone and N95 are not revolutionary, they are simply temporary flashy bricks for rich kids and misguided early adopters.
If you're going to troll at least write a decent flame. My 13-year-old can flame better than that and he'll sign his name to it, too!
And lots of us have expensive devices that aren't the iPhone. Treos, Razrs, Blackberries, SmartPhones, all cost more than $400 when first released. That's not too much different than the iPhone's price.
As a PHONE, they might not be worth $600-700, but you're not taking into account everything else:
MP3 Player - ~$200
digital camera - ~$250-300
GPS unit ~$350-400
And that's not even counting the internet browsing and all that. So I could either buy all these things separate, and look like Batman walking around with a utility belt, or I can have ONE device to slip quietly in my pocket.
Robert, have you heard of this story?
But, I digress...
When I think of trolling, particularly technology zealotry, I think of someone posting something to get a rise out of the forum which is clearly a certain way that is different than the troll. (I'm a Mac and I'm a PC)
So let's look at the two situations and you tell me where they are not similar:
Nokia guy goes to an iPhone line and stirs up trouble. His main intent is to to prove that the company he likes, and by extension, he, is better than you since your waiting for an Apple product, and Nokia's products are superior.
Or, *the* Apple guy goes up to an MS guy and stirs up trouble. It is obvious Steve's main intent was to prove that his company, and by extension, he, was better that you since you worked for MS, and Apple's products are superior.
Now I agree that this in your face confrontations are uncalled for, especially over what is just a phone. Although extreme, it is the same as wearing a Red Sox cap to a Yankees game, arguing on the Internet, or in an extreme form, bombing an abortion clinic. Different means, same type of behavior.
Hey Robert, one thing this Nokia vs. Apple debate has sparked, is that I have had no clue about the Nokia before, and now I'm seriously considering one. I have no experience on either device and I've witnessed more conversation, flaming, fanboys, and propaganda spewing from both iPhone and N95 people. So I'm coming at this from scratch.
Kinda tough being an informed consumer in spite of how religious the information is.
That said, labeling Nokia owners as trolls because of the ill advised comments of a few is a bit harsh. A difference of opinion does not indicate that someone is trolling. There are some very valid points made in terms of what the iPhone doesn't do in the previous topic.
Ultimately our preferences are individual. If it were any other way then life would be intolerably boring.
What is that law about for every positive reaction there is an equal and opposite negative reaction??? I'll have to bone up on my physics/chemistry before saying that's 100% accurate.
Thanks.
P.S. In case you're interested, the post is here: http://www.istudioweb.com/puppets-and-puppeteer...